Mart yard ban

Lady Haywire

Don't know if the news is much out yet but there was serious incident that happened in a mart yesterday. For fúck sake, don't send wicked bulls to the mart!!

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Got a call from a neighbour this morning. Yearling bull was caught up on a gate. Both back legs were in under the top bar and he was hanging forward. Don't know how long he was there but he was rightly caught. We got a big lifting strap in behind his front lags, lifted him and drove back. I jumped the gate to get the strap off. Was jumping back again to get out of the way and he decided to get up and hit the gate. Ended up hitting the ground a wallop. Caught me on the right hip. Can feel it niggling me now.
Just got me thinking about farm safety and how we work in a lethal environment. I'd be as safety conscious as anyone, but how do you avoid something like that.

A farmer was attacked by a bull in mohill mart yesterday, anyone hear anything

Lady Haywire

wrangler wrote: »

A farmer was attacked by a bull in mohill mart yesterday, anyone hear anything

Yes, I know the man. Bull came in the chutes it seems and was let off or got out the penning area without word going forward that he was wicked. Broken ribs,legs, punctured lung (or lungs unsure of that), still unconscious, hopefully he pulls through.

whelan2

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Yes, I know the man. Bull came in the chutes it seems and was let off or got out the penning area without word going forward that he was wicked. Broken ribs,legs, punctured lung (or lungs unsure of that), still unconscious, hopefully he pulls through.

You'd have to wonder what lads do be thinking sending an animal like that to the mart

wrangler

whelan2 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder what lads do be thinking sending an animal like that to the mart

hence the highest accident rate of any profession.....lads brought up on pallets and baler twine

charolais0153

Animals do get very stressed in marts. Had a weanling once that went apeshìt up in the mart . this bull might have been the same?

Lady Haywire

I honestly don't know if the bull went mad or was wicked on the way in so can't really comment on that. Unfair of me to write in the other post that nothing was said about him being wicked when it could have been stress of the mart etc that caused him to attack.
Either way, an unfortunate incident but where he was attacked he should have been able to see the bull coming up the chutes and moved.

whelan2

Should farmers etc be allowed near the chutes?

Lady Haywire

whelan2 wrote: »

Should farmers etc be allowed near the chutes?

The way mohill is laid out there's a sort of walking area beside where dry cows are penned parallel to the chutes so normally it's an area folk gather to chat or watch stock. Theres' also a safety area to stand into at it but the lower part is a bit of a dead end unless you go through the gate. Either the bull got out or was let out unwittingly and it turned down there instead of over to a single pen which would be near the heifer/cow ring.

Angus2018

Bulls are unpredictable animals, the levels of testecerone can make them snap in an instant. Plenty of horror stories where owners have been turned on for no reason. You need to always have an exit, hug a fence/ditch/gate etc and never turn your back.

Cavanjack

whelan2 wrote: »

Should farmers etc be allowed near the chutes?

No and as for children walking around!!! Was in a mart one day during mid term break, kids everywhere including a main thoroughfare where the cattle are let out after being sold on their way to be repenned. There came a lunatic of a bullock into the ring, he went for the auctioneer and assistant. He was let out of the ring withoutout warning. Don't know how the children escaped.,

Base price

Aurivo have closed all their marts for the rest of the week after the incident in Mohill over the weekend.
http://www.thatsfarming.com/news/aurivo-mart-closures

scuggels

Marts in the west are starting to announce that mart staff only will be allowed in the yard. Surely this won't work. They will need to come up with other means of safety as I feel there is always a need for viewing before a sale and pick the animals you might buy instead of wondering what is going to come in off the scales.
One mart announced trained drovers only in the yard well some of these may want re training there is a mart east galway there is a header that will drive cattle against people to spite and open gates pushing lads against it.
So overall I think they need to review other safety steps before a total ban from the yard!

bogman_bass

Lads don't like change and especially in marts ( how many lads have you seen light a fag around the ring?)
People just have to adapt

croot

scuggels wrote: »

Marts in the west are starting to announce that mart staff only will be allowed in the yard. Surely this won't work. They will need to come up with other means of safety as I feel there is always a need for viewing before a sale and pick the animals you might buy instead of wondering what is going to come in off the scales.
One mart announced trained drovers only in the yard well some of these may want re training there is a mart east galway there is a header that will drive cattle against people to spite and open gates pushing lads against it.
So overall I think they need to review other safety steps before a total ban from the yard!

Already in force but not the Marts decision Id say.

I was in Castlerea mart yesterday and Health and Safety officers from the HSE were there in force. I was told to drop the cattle at loading bay and then only use the approved walkways to put the numbers on. Inspection of the cattle was only allowed from overhead walkways. Everyone was warned on the way in.

All Aurivo/Homeland marts are closed at the moment while the HSE are investigating the serious injury that happened to a customer so it seems it is not up to the Mart's themselves any longer.

Lady Haywire

The thing is though, the man in question was in the collecting pen in front of the chutes. Not in the yard looking at stock. So where does the fault lie?
The bull barged into the pen behind heifers being let into the pen for moving so does the person who opened the gate get blamed? The mart for not enforcing the sellers to be wary of that pen and only follow cattle out of it, not be in it while the gate is closed?
Bull was a limousin and was quiet at home (so I'm told) was even grand when being tested for sale.

orm0nd

I think all bulls over a certain age should be only allowed straight to the factory,

saw 2 cases in local mart , one where the bull jumped out of the weighting scales and only for an alert drover who opened a pen gate to divert him could have killed people in the passage way,

I also agree in keeping people from the passage ways , if they cant judge stock in ring, too bad. You see very few agents or dealers , it's usually tyre kickers drooling at stock they have no intention of buying.

A committee member was telling me of 2 pending claims in a private mart . 1 for 150k for a kick from 3 month heifer.

scuggels

orm0nd wrote: »

I also agree in keeping people from the passage ways , if they cant judge stock in ring, too bad. You see very few agents or dealers , it's usually tyre kickers drooling at stock they have no intention of buying.

Agents dealers don't be buying top quality animals and they aren't stuck with an animal they will always have a home (victim) to send the animal. If a farmer thinks the animal is OK in and ring brings it home and regrets the purchase he/she is stuck with it. Al least previewing you can make up your mind and be comfortable and not impulse buying.
There are other measures that can be brought in....

Cavanjack

We should not be let roam feeely around a mart. You wouldn't let lads do it at home in your own yard. It's a miracle no child has been killed in a mart (none that I know of). Marts drive animals (and men) mad. The only option is gantrys or specific walk ways.

Bleating Lamb

Most marts in NW do not have overhead walkways so it would be v difficult to enforce a rule restricting farmers from the yard.

freedominacup

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Most marts in NW do not have overhead walkways so it would be v difficult to enforce a rule restricting farmers from the yard.

Most marts don't have walkways full stop but this is definitely going to change.

freedominacup

Lady Haywire wrote: »

The thing is though, the man in question was in the collecting pen in front of the chutes. Not in the yard looking at stock. So where does the fault lie?
The bull barged into the pen behind heifers being let into the pen for moving so does the person who opened the gate get blamed? The mart for not enforcing the sellers to be wary of that pen and only follow cattle out of it, not be in it while the gate is closed?
Bull was a limousin and was quiet at home (so I'm told) was even grand when being tested for sale.

The fault lies with the mart. This is what will drive the change. There is no defence. The days of wandering around a mart lairage are numbered.

whelan2

Lady Haywire wrote: »

The thing is though, the man in question was in the collecting pen in front of the chutes. Not in the yard looking at stock. So where does the fault lie?
The bull barged into the pen behind heifers being let into the pen for moving so does the person who opened the gate get blamed? The mart for not enforcing the sellers to be wary of that pen and only follow cattle out of it, not be in it while the gate is closed?
Bull was a limousin and was quiet at home (so I'm told) was even grand when being tested for sale.

Any update on the man?

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

The fault lies with the mart. This is what will drive the change. There is no defence. The days of wandering around a mart lairage are numbered.

I am not in the mart often. I was there one day and the owner said to me no kids allowed near the cattle pens. This was a couple of years ago.

Cavanjack

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Most marts in NW do not have overhead walkways so it would be v difficult to enforce a rule restricting farmers from the yard.

I'd say it will soon be a case of putting them in or closing the doors. If the insurance companies play ball and reduce marts premiums then it will pay to get them installed.

Lady Haywire

whelan2 wrote: »

Any update on the man?

Everyone i've spoken to says the same, not looking good. But he's fighting on at least so outlook has to be better than it was.

patsy_mccabe

It's a tough one. How can you buy cattle if you can't look at them. Getting a few seconds when they come into the mart isn't enough. Anyone that says it is, has never bought cattle. Marts are full of guys looking through the pens. You can't view cattle from the walkways either.
At the recent dispersal limousin sale in Roscrea, they had the gates locked denying access to the pens. You couldn't get into the ringside either as it was packed full. What were you supposed to do, just go home.
Ennis mart won't allow the owners herd the cattle to the chutes after you unload. In fairness, it works well. Stops the tailback for unloading in the morning. You are still allowed to walk out into the pens though.

zetor 4911

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Everyone i've spoken to says the same, not looking good. But he's fighting on at least so outlook has to be better than it was.

Was the unfortunate man actually attacked by the bull or did the bull crash into him. Wishing him all the best.

Lady Haywire

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Was the unfortunate man actually attacked by the bull or did the bull crash into him. Wishing him all the best.

Pinned and attacked it seems. Could have happened to anyone, just the wrong place at the wrong time.

IH784man

Reinforced pens and a few extra bars added to the gates to bring them higher,with drover only until all cattle are penned then a set viewing time with locked pens until the start of the mart and drover only again could be one way to have the best of both worlds.

greysides

What will happen when a drover eventually gets attacked?

whelan2

greysides wrote: »

What will happen when a drover eventually gets attacked?

Was a drover attacked in Ardee mart. Result was all the older drovers were "retired".

scuggels

IH784man wrote: »

Reinforced pens and a few extra bars added to the gates to bring them higher,with drover only until all cattle are penned then a set viewing time with locked pens until the start of the mart and drover only again could be one way to have the best of both worlds.

Not bad but some marts have a habit of packing the pens that animals can't move for example was at a sale picked a heifer that was packed had a good top etc but when she came out of the pen different animal with a big drooping belly wasn't half the animal I thought.

IH784man

scuggels wrote: »

Not bad but some marts have a habit of packing the pens that animals can't move for example was at a sale picked a heifer that was packed had a good top etc but when she came out of the pen different animal with a big drooping belly wasn't half the animal I thought.

That has very little to do with any new changes in fairness,the tighter they are in a pen the safer they'll be from each other anyway,it's only for a short period of time.

Kristopherus

croot wrote: »

Already in force but not the Marts decision Id say.

I was in Castlerea mart yesterday and Health and Safety officers from the HSE were there in force. I was told to drop the cattle at loading bay and then only use the approved walkways to put the numbers on. Inspection of the cattle was only allowed from overhead walkways. Everyone was warned on the way in.

All Aurivo/Homeland marts are closed at the moment while the HSE are investigating the serious injury that happened to a customer so it seems it is not up to the Mart's themselves any longer.

Are you sure the H & S staff were from HSE? And not from the HSA?

blonde10

I think it's fair to say that there will be big changes In the marts now that the HSA are involved..ive been working on building sites for many years and the amount of change in safety on site over the last number of years is huge..so in fairness when you have up on 1000 stressed animals in one place being hit and poked I'm not surprised it's come to this...i am surprised that accidents like the one in question hasn't happend previously...big changes on the way I think....and for the better imo..

lab man

scuggels wrote:

Marts in the west are starting to announce that mart staff only will be allowed in the yard. Surely this won't work. They will need to come up with other means of safety as I feel there is always a need for viewing before a sale and pick the animals you might buy instead of wondering what is going to come in off the scales. One mart announced trained drovers only in the yard well some of these may want re training there is a mart east galway there is a header that will drive cattle against people to spite and open gates pushing lads against it. So overall I think they need to review other safety steps before a total ban from the yard!

Why won't it work ..it works very well in ennis

Odelay

blonde10 wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that there will be big changes In the marts now that the HSA are involved..ive been working on building sites for many years and the amount of change in safety on site over the last number of years is huge..so in fairness when you have up on 1000 stressed animals in one place being hit and poked I'm not surprised it's come to this...i am surprised that accidents like the one in question hasn't happend previously...big changes on the way I think....and for the better imo..

Absolutely have to agree.

893bet

Safety is important.

But don't forget it's the farmer who will pay for it through increased charges.

Some people (mart owners, drovers and customer have no sense or awareness of their surroundings).

phormium

Cavanjack wrote: »

We should not be let roam feeely around a mart. You wouldn't let lads do it at home in your own yard. It's a miracle no child has been killed in a mart (none that I know of). Marts drive animals (and men) mad. The only option is gantrys or specific walk ways.

There was a child killed at a mart many years ago, maybe 20+, not sure where, I know the parents but not sure if the mart was local to them or back at home place. He was about 7 or 8 at the time. Can't remember the exact circumstances but it was an awful tragedy obviously.

Robson99

Cavanjack wrote: »

We should not be let roam feeely around a mart. You wouldn't let lads do it at home in your own yard. It's a miracle no child has been killed in a mart (none that I know of). Marts drive animals (and men) mad. The only option is gantrys or specific walk ways.

Marts are no place for children

patsy_mccabe

If they can figure out how to move cattle to and from the pens and get the people out of the alleys while theyre doing it and still let people look at cattle in the pens. That's the big challenge.

Farmer

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

If they can figure out how to move cattle to and from the pens and get the people out of the alleys while theyre doing it and still let people look at cattle in the pens. That's the big challenge.

..particularly in some of the older cramped marts that don't have the space or money to expand.

croot

Kristopherus wrote: »

Are you sure the H & S staff were from HSE? And not from the HSA?

Sorry that should have been HSA

Dozer1

there was a child killed in abbeyfeale mart about 20 years ago by a weanling My dad was there still talks about it the odd day

Sheep breeder

A lot of problems in marts is the poor quality of staff handling cattle and the fools of farmers who stand in the way of cattle moving around a mart just talking.
Was in a mart a month a go and a guy was unloading a heifer and two guys standing in the alleyway and asked them to move as the heifer was lively and two boys wouldn’t move out of the way just got thick because they were asked to move.

anthony500_1

Sheep breeder wrote:

A lot of problems in marts is the poor quality of staff handling cattle and the fools of farmers who stand in the way of cattle moving around a mart just talking. Was in a mart a month a go and a guy was unloading a heifer and two guys standing in the alleyway and asked them to move as the heifer was lively and two boys wouldn’t move out of the way just got thick because they were asked to move.

You will find some of the thickest men in the country at the Mart's of ireland every day you go. It's unbelievable what they do/won't do when asked something

phormium

Dozer, I'd say we are talking about the same tragedy

TITANIUM.

anthony500_1 wrote: »

You will find some of the thickest men in the country at the Mart's of ireland every day you go. It's unbelievable what they do/won't do when asked something

Unfortunately your spot on, some of um aren't thick there just incredibly ignorant. If you fell down they'd walk on top of you. The sheep marts seem to be much worse then the cattle marts for some reason.

Who2

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Unfortunately your spot on, some of um aren't thick there just incredibly ignorant. If you fell down they'd walk on top of you. The sheep marts seem to be much worse then the cattle marts for some reason.

The big ignorant *** that tries to climb in on top of you to get where he thinks is his spot. There seems to be one in every mart.

boggerman1

As someone who worked for 16 yrs in a mat on the yard I for one would agree on some curtailing of people on the passageways.I worked for a lot of my time in the sorting pen at the bullock ring.the amount of people that thought it was an easy job was unbelievable.yet if u asked them to step in they would run away.what would really get on my goat was how they would have to climb up the pen and be above the cattle while trying to sort them out.ask someone to get down nicely u were ignored.
During the Celtic tiger era working in a mart was certainly more dangerous particularly at the weanling sales.back then cattle would nearly go for u.off coarse u always were told they were grand and quiet at home.
Children should never be allowed out on the passageway or near the loading areas.a bit of give and take on both sides would make the job easier on everyone.