Disputing a speeding ticket based on the accuracy/calibration of the camera.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

I read somewhere on this board that the prosecution does not have to prove that the speed camera was calibrated at the time of the offence, if anything it is up to the person to prove it wasn't.

I ask this because in work we have a 20 km/h speed limit on site all over. It is a huge secured campus closed off to the general public. We have speed cameras everywhere that display your speed, if you go over the 20 km/h limit, your manager will be notified and you'll get a bollocking for it.

When I passed by the one in work, I was doing an indicated 19 km/h, the camera flashed up 33 km/h (glitch? ), there were no other vehicles in sight as I checked my mirrors. Just for peace of mind,, I downloaded my dashcam footage to my phone and had it ready for the inevitable of my manager giving out to me.

Sure enough, the next day I was called into the office. I showed my manager the video of the dashcam with my speed stamped on the footage veering from 16 km/h to 19 km/h but the camera in the background flashing up 33 km/h. He accepted my evidence and apologised for disturbing my work and left me to it.

I'm just wondering if such evidence would be admissible in court for a real road speed camera? It's annoying that it can take up to months to receive a speeding fine in the post in Ireland. I haven't been caught, so keep your high horses in the stable. I'm just curious.

Del2005

What's required for a successful prosecution by the state and what your employer deems suitable to catch people on their site are not the same criteria.

Your contract or employee handbook will have the information on how they deal with internal discipline, some companies discipline employees if they don't reverse park.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

Del2005 wrote: »

What's required for a successful prosecution by the state and what your employer deems suitable to catch people on their site are not the same criteria.

Your contract or employee handbook will have the information on how they deal with internal discipline, some companies discipline employees if they don't reverse park.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. I was asking if showing dash footage in court would be as easily accepted by a judge as it was by my manager.

Reverse parking I 100% agree with incidentally. It's the easiest and safest way.

_Brian

I honestly think going to court to fight a speeding fine is a huge risk and indefinitely feel you’d want something much more solid than questioning their equipment.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

I'm just saying that if a camera like the one we have in work can malfunction, then any camera can. Glitches happen.

Del2005

_Brian wrote: »

I honestly think going to court to fight a speeding fine is a huge risk and indefinitely feel you’d want something much more solid than questioning their equipment.

They don't need to prove anything, the device doesn't need to be calibrated or functioning to get a conviction. So your camera, which isn't calibrated so completely inaccurate from a legal perspective, would show a different speed to the States camara and the judge will say that you were going the speed on the States camera as that's all the evidence the Statute requires. Don't forget that the Gardaí don't even need evidence to convict you, a member can say you were speeding and that's it.

Skatedude

"private secured campus that is not open to the public" Er? you have pretty much no rights other than what is stated in your work contract.

this is between you and your employer, only option is to contact HR if you want to dispute it.

osarusan

You could say that the police's speed camera must have been calibrated incorrectly, and that 'glitches happen', but the police will say it wasn't and it didn't, and that your dashcam must be wrong, and the court will believe them, not you.

rabbitinlights

If I was 100% sure I didn't speed (on a public road) I'd get in touch with an experienced solicitor and get their advice on how to proceed.

It's certainly going to be more common in the future when you can show in court multiple GPS satellites proving your speed.

s.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

Skatedude wrote: »

"private secured campus that is not open to the public" Er? you have pretty much no rights other than what is stated in your work contract.

this is between you and your employer, only option is to contact HR if you want to dispute it.

Read the OP again. I take it reading comprehension isn’t your forte.

ironclaw

Just to answer the question posed, the Irish state, as per current legislation and statue, does not need to prove any equipment used was in working order or indeed calibrated. The Garda merely needs to form the opinion you were speeding.

There was a case, a few years ago, that was taken regarding the inability of the laser gun to produce a physical record of the offence. I believe that loophole applied to very specific cases and has subsequently been fixed/deemed inadmissible.

With respect to your dashcam, it would be infinitely less accurate than any current speed detection device.

Long story short, you can't challenge a speeding ticket in Ireland on the basis of the equipment used to measure your speed.

Finally, I'm guessing you work in the airport or mint?

Auguste Comte

You don't need to prove you weren't speeding you only need to cast reasonable doubt on the states case that you were. The guards word is not just accepted in court, most judges are reasonable and its the accused that gets the benefits of the doubt.

I'd suggest every one should go and sit down the back of their local district court and see how the system works. An eye opener and usually great entertainment.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

Auguste Comte wrote: »

You don't need to prove you weren't speeding you only need to cast reasonable doubt on the states case that you were. The guards word is not just accepted in court, most judges are reasonable and its the accused that gets the benefits of the doubt.

I'd suggest every one should go and sit down the back of their local district court and see how the system works. An eye opener and usually great entertainment.

Can you just walk into a district court and watch the proceedings? Like the scangers getting lambasted by the judge?

You taught me something today. I’d love to do that.

tea and coffee

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Can you just walk into a district court and watch the proceedings? Like the scangers getting lambasted by the judge?

You taught me something today. I’d love to do that.

You can walk into any court unless the case is being heard "in camera" (in private; usually family law cases)

Auguste Comte

J5

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Can you just walk into a district court and watch the proceedings? Like the scangers getting lambasted by the judge?

You taught me something today. I’d love to do that.

Yea, When I was in college we had a life studies coach who was mad into people knowing their rights and understanding how the system works. He brought a few of us who were interested into the courts to see them in action.
Anyone can rock up an enjoy the show, just make sure you're phone is on silent. I still go to the courts whenever I get a chance, it's an eye opener.

It's not always the scangers getting the sharp end of the judges tongue, there is the odd guard gets sent on their way with their tail between their legs.

bizidea

Go to court you will be fine probably throw it out cancel the penalty points and make you pay a donation to the poor box

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Speed detection equipment used by the gardai is calibrated on a schedule. If you wanted you would ask your solicitor to request the calibration information on the piece of equipment used in your case and see if there is any issue with the calibration or the timing of it. If its been properly calibrated then your out of luck, if not you might have a case. Your dash cam is not calibrated and usually works off basic GPS which might not refresh quickly enough for a real time reading. You also cannot prove your dash cam is accurate. Maybe some visual marker on the road and the timestamp would work, but you cannot prove the integrity of the video.

Eric Cartman

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

I read somewhere on this board that the prosecution does not have to prove that the speed camera was calibrated at the time of the offence, if anything it is up to the person to prove it wasn't.

I ask this because in work we have a 20 km/h speed limit on site all over. It is a huge secured campus closed off to the general public. We have speed cameras everywhere that display your speed, if you go over the 20 km/h limit, your manager will be notified and you'll get a bollocking for it.

When I passed by the one in work, I was doing an indicated 19 km/h, the camera flashed up 33 km/h (glitch? ), there were no other vehicles in sight as I checked my mirrors. Just for peace of mind,, I downloaded my dashcam footage to my phone and had it ready for the inevitable of my manager giving out to me.

Sure enough, the next day I was called into the office. I showed my manager the video of the dashcam with my speed stamped on the footage veering from 16 km/h to 19 km/h but the camera in the background flashing up 33 km/h. He accepted my evidence and apologised for disturbing my work and left me to it.

I'm just wondering if such evidence would be admissible in court for a real road speed camera? It's annoying that it can take up to months to receive a speeding fine in the post in Ireland. I haven't been caught, so keep your high horses in the stable. I'm just curious.

That literally sounds like hell OP.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

bizidea wrote: »

Go to court you will be fine probably throw it out cancel the penalty points and make you pay a donation to the poor box

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Read the OP again. I take it reading comprehension isn’t your forte.

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

I haven't been caught, so keep your high horses in the stable. I'm just curious.

Have people lost the ability to read?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Have people lost the ability to read?

Nah its the internet age, people read the post up until they feel outraged and post without reading any further. Posts over 144 characters cause confusion, and people fear and loath you.

28064212

Kaylie Bald Conga wrote: »

Speed detection equipment used by the gardai is calibrated on a schedule. If you wanted you would ask your solicitor to request the calibration information on the piece of equipment used in your case and see if there is any issue with the calibration or the timing of it. If its been properly calibrated then your out of luck, if not you might have a case

There is no requirement to show that the equipment is properly calibrated. Under Irish law, the equipment is assumed to be accurate.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/81/enacted/en/html wrote:

It is not necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.

The defense would have to prove that the equipment was not accurate