Bin Weight Charge Seems Impossible

ShaShaBear

As the title says, our waste bin lift of two weeks ago incurred the first ever charge for being too heavy. According to them, it weighed a staggering 101kg. Its a bog standard 240L bin and we use our recycling bin as well (which gets lifted on alternative weeks). The highest weight next to this is 55kg, which is what it weighed yesterday morning. It was actually overflowing and the lid wouldn't shut.
Is there any way we can contest this? It's not so much about the money as the principle - I did call and the lady stated it was right and that was that, offered no explanation as to how we managed to squeeze an extra 50kg of rubbish into what would have been an already packed bin.

guil

It's quiet common for bins to be that heavy believe it or not, I've seen them much heavier.

loyatemu

I don't trust the truck scales - they had our recycling bin listed as 50kg one week - there is no way a bin full of cardboard and plastic could weigh that much, it's generally less than 20kg. There's no method for joe public to verify the weights either.

Wanderer78

loyatemu wrote:

I don't trust the truck scales - they had our recycling bin listed as 50kg one week - there is no way a bin full of cardboard and plastic could weigh that much, it's generally less than 20kg. There's no method for joe public to verify the weights either.

Self regulation, works very well in reality, but who's reality is the question!

ShaShaBear

guil wrote: »

It's quiet common for bins to be that heavy believe it or not, I've seen them much heavier.

It's not common for ours though. When it is so full that the lid won't close, it weighs 55kg. So how on earth could it ever weigh double that with no physical room for anything else?

The Royal Scam

Any pay by weight or volume systems in Ireland are checked by Legal Metrology. This is the little sticker you will spot on you fuel pump when you fill up.

I spotted this article on it ,

http://thorntons-recycling.ie/nsai-legal-metrology-inspectors-bin-weighing-machines/


and Legal Metrology Website is


https://www.nsai.ie/LegalMetrology.aspx

ButtersSuki

Our bins are normally in the 30-35KG bracket. Last week we were told it was 78KG. Were told next time we'd be charged. I honestly can't see how it was anywhere near that as we boringly predictable in our shopping and waste etc. It certainly didn't feel twice as heavy as I pulled it out from the rear of the house to the collection point that morning. But how do you challenge it?

the_pen_turner

check to see if the lid is cracked or leaking. water getting in will add a lot of weight. snow too

fleet

1 liter of water is 1kg, so yeah, with all the rain recently I wouldn't be surprised if there was some seepage.

ShaShaBear

fleet wrote: »

1 liter of water is 1kg, so yeah, with all the rain recently I wouldn't be surprised if there was some seepage.

Impossible for rain to get in where we keep them before a lift so that's not it

Jellybaby1

Or it could be the same thing that happened to us once. After my husband had put the bin out I found more stuff to throw out. When I went out and opened the bin someone had put a pile of old clothes in our bin. It can happen that your bin may have been used by a 'passer-by'. This is why I hate having to pay bin charges.

Alanstrainor

fleet wrote: »

1 liter of water is 1kg, so yeah, with all the rain recently I wouldn't be surprised if there was some seepage.

It might be worth drilling a hole in the bottom...

ShaShaBear

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Or it could be the same thing that happened to us once. After my husband had put the bin out I found more stuff to throw out. When I went out and opened the bin someone had put a pile of old clothes in our bin. It can happen that your bin may have been used by a 'passer-by'. This is why I hate having to pay bin charges.

While I did consider someone had put something in It, our crowd won't take extra bags or bins with the lid open. There wouldn't have been enough space for 50kg worth of clothes

L1011

Checked the weight logs for my bin, which is still sort of pay per year so it doesn't matter as much. The exact same figure turns up multiple times, down to the amounts after the decimal.

Suspect the scales are absolutely crap on the lorries they use.

coylemj

Alanstrainor wrote: »

It might be worth drilling a hole in the bottom...

I thought of that a while ago but if you throw any meat scraps in the bin, there's going to be some seepage of juices which might attract vermin. And lead to nasty smells in your back yard.

Not to mention what could happen if you have to haul the bin through the house the night before it's collected...

Kuva

At 31KG heavier than my heaviest ever lift, 101KG is not possible.

beechwood55

I queried a brown bin lift about a year ago. It was totally off the wall. Greyhound refused to entertain me.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

guil

Kuva wrote: »

At 31KG heavier than my heaviest ever lift, 101KG is not possible.

Of course it's possible. I've regularly seen bins over 125kg.

beechwood55

.

L1011

guil wrote: »

Of course it's possible. I've regularly seen bins over 125kg.

If its using the same on-truck gear as my supplier, I'd question if it was even vaguely close.

If I get forced to do full by weight charging I'm going to buy a old fashioned mechanical scales to check my own weekly; as the current suppliers figures are clearly fake. You don't get the same weight, down to the the decimals, multiple weeks. Once maybe, not five times a year.

If I was being charged by weight I'd have got the NSAI/Legal Metrology in already. But I'm not.

guil

When the helpers emptying the bins are struggling to get the bins on the back of the truck it's obvious it's very heavy. The total weights tally with the weighbridge.

L1011

Its clearly possible to put that much in a bin, but when you are given clear nonsense figures by an apparently reputable supplier doubts creep in.

The probability that my bins would be the same weight down to decimal places multiple times a year would be similar to naming the National winner every year for a century.

I now have every reason to doubt the validity to the on-truck scales and nothing to suggest they're valid. I know they're bollox with the rather large supplier I use.

Corca Baiscinn

coylemj wrote: »

I thought of that a while ago but if you throw any meat scraps in the bin, there's going to be some seepage of juices which might attract vermin. And lead to nasty smells in your back yard.

Not to mention what could happen if you have to haul the bin through the house the night before it's collected...

Does your area not have a separate compost collection for food waste yet?

This is an interesting thread, must look up my bin weights. I do know the recycling weight can vary a lot, eg a big number of newspapers weigh heavily whereas plastic waste doesn't

L1011

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Does your area not have a separate compost collection for food waste yet?

This is an interesting thread, must look up my bin weights. I do know the recycling weight can vary a lot, eg a big number of newspapers weigh heavily whereas plastic waste doesn't

Compost bins and moisture levels therein have come up here before - mainly someone using residual heat from their oven to dehydrate their compostable waste (teabags) before it went out - so not costing them any more in power but possibly saving a relatively small amount in bin weight.

I long for the days of municipal waste collection to come back....

Damien360

guil wrote: »

When the helpers emptying the bins are struggling to get the bins on the back of the truck it's obvious it's very heavy. The total weights tally with the weighbridge.

I just checked my weights and the biggest is 40kg and that was a very heavy bin. Typical under 30kg. I wouldn't have thought that 110kg was physically possible to move even with the wheels. The risk of it tipping would be big.

Organic waste normal 20kg (small lawn front and back), recycling 7 to 8kg max, waste 28, 22, 40, 28kg. The reg of the truck is listed in each case and it's 5 trucks for 10 lifts on the page listed.

fritzelly

Damien360 wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought that 110kg was physically possible to move even with the wheels. The risk of it tipping would be big.

Not at all, local coal man carries a bag of coal (40kg) over his back when delivering, 3 of them on wheels would be easy

bobgaf

As stated above, 40 kg would be a heavy bin. You could not hit 110 kg unless your bin is filled with builder's rubble or similar. You could not hit 110 kg with normal domestic waste. If the bin really weighed 110 kg, whoever wheeled it out would have remembered that. Many people would find that load impossible. As advised above, contact NSAI.

rubadub

Kuva wrote: »

At 31KG heavier than my heaviest ever lift, 101KG is not possible.

well better call the guinness book of records or NASA or someone, because I have done the "impossible" several times.

Be a good question for a bunch of 10 year olds, explain how can you fit items weighing more than 101kg into a bin with volume of 240L. Bit too easy for them though.

The Royal Scam

Damien360 wrote: »

I just checked my weights and the biggest is 40kg and that was a very heavy bin. Typical under 30kg. I wouldn't have thought that 110kg was physically possible to move even with the wheels. The risk of it tipping would be big.

I would have to agree with this to a point. I worked calibrating scales from 5g up to 30 tonne for the last 15 yrs so I have a good feeling for pulling big weights. I would regulary pull a tonne unaided but slowly on a pallet truck but our standard box of weights was 240kg and it was not easy to just drag it around on the 4 wheels. If you were tipping a bin to pull on 2 wheels you would really struggle to stop it falling over.
I only was thinking about this thread when I was bringing out my bins last week. I reckon my bin was actually heavy enough last week. Between 50 to 60kg. I struggled a small bit on an incline in the garden. The OP would really struggle if the amount that was claimed was actually in his bin.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

We average 80kgs a bin and we've received a few warnings that the max weight of the bin is 40kgs. The bin is always full when put out for collection, as I refuse to put out a bin that's only half full to keep it at 40kg. I would guess that 75% of the bin is nappies btw.

What on earth is going into the bin to bring it above 130kgs?

Wanderer78

Is it time we all leave packaging behind in the shops?

Rulmeq

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is it time we all leave packaging behind in the shops?

They set up repak to make sure you can't

Wanderer78

Rulmeq wrote: »

They set up repak to make sure you can't

to be fair, it does seem like this behavior is increasing, we probably should all start doing it, including myself, it might put more pressure on supply chains to reduce waste rather than pushing it all mainly out to the end user

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is it time we all leave packaging behind in the shops?

You can try but it's illegal littering.

Wanderer78

Ernesto Prickly Buttermilk wrote: »

You can try but it's illegal littering.

i believe theres groups already doing this, id like to know what problems theyre running into, our waste issues are not solely the problem of the end user, our materials and products supply chain systems also play a part, and should also play a part in reducing it

rubadub

Some shops allow it, not sure if it is still the case but currys had a sign up about it when I got something maybe 2 years ago.

I still wonder if there is a way to legally litter shops the way they litter my house. e.g. if I have an old box can I glue on a dunnes flyer which came into my house unsolicited can I dump the lot back into dunnes.

Kuva

Evalyn Some Arsonist wrote: »

We average 80kgs a bin and I would guess that 75% of the bin is nappies btw.

What on earth is going into the bin to bring it above 130kgs?

AHH nappies, never had them.

Them and broken tiles(?) would do it I guess.

the dark phantom

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is it time we all leave packaging behind in the shops?

Or in the fireplace, public bin or side of the road ?

CalamariFritti

For what its worth; from personal experience the weight of bins can differ greatly from one collection to the next. Some day all you have is a 3/4 full bin with bags of light house rubbish. I can roll the thing out with one hand no problem.
Next time there may be a few bags of ash in there, a couple of jars of gone off stuff and one or two other bits and the thing is full and its hard to even tilt it onto its wheels.

Unless you 'control' what every person in the house throws in there its difficult to make a statement like 'it's impossible'.
What is definitely impossible is to prove it either way now that the rubbish is gone. Only solution would be getting suitable scales and weigh the bin yourself before collection.

CIARAN_BOYLE

this is anecdotal but my bin man always looks to be leaning on the bin as it's being weighed.

daheff

Evalyn Some Arsonist wrote: »

We average 80kgs a bin and we've received a few warnings that the max weight of the bin is 40kgs. The bin is always full when put out for collection, as I refuse to put out a bin that's only half full to keep it at 40kg. I would guess that 75% of the bin is nappies btw.

What on earth is going into the bin to bring it above 130kgs?

are you charged by lift or by weight? If its by weight, it shouldnt matter to you whether bin is full or half full.


If you are charged by lift then i fully understand.

rubadub

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

this is anecdotal but my bin man always looks to be leaning on the bin as it's being weighed.

I would think the weight has to be somewhat stable before it registers, like a supermarket till. It would be very difficult to apply perfect static pressure, he would be better off lashing a weight on top and taking off again, if he did have some reason to do this.

daheff wrote: »

are you charged by lift or by weight? If its by weight, it shouldnt matter to you whether bin is full or half full.

If you are charged by lift then i fully understand.

I am charged both per lift and weight.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is a bit of a rant, advanced warning!!

A yearly charge, a black bin lift charge and soon weight charge also. So three charges. From 19th April, the green bin will be 80 cent per lift and 4.5 cents/kg. I am with Panda.

The proposed pricing by Panda back in 2016 was crazy - € 86/year annual charge + 3.20/lift + 0.27/kg. That was just the black bin. The brown bin which is currently included for free was to be 2.56/lift + 0.16/kg.

We put out our black bun every two months. My average 80kg bin which currently costs me about € 28/lift, would have cost about 40/lift. ~40% more at a minimum for the black bin.That does include the additional charges for the brown bin of about € 5/lift. Taking the black, brown and recently announced green bin charges together, my waste charges could have (and most likely will be) 65-70% more each year. :mad:

* I prorate the annual charge onto my average lifts for a year.

Our green bin is always full and goes out every 2 weeks. Our brown bin is the same, a little less frequent in winter perhaps.

I wonder if the the CER would allow that sort of increase in energy prices over night? :rolleyes:

Crazy stuff going on in the waste industry.

Edit: Factored in the green bin charges.

daheff wrote: »

are you charged by lift or by weight? If its by weight, it shouldnt matter to you whether bin is full or half full.

If you are charged by lift then i fully understand.

D3V!L

On a bad week I weigh nearly 110 kilos myself !! There isn't a chance my bin would move with me in it. My black bin has been pushing 50kilos when heavy and I struggled a little with it. I'd be very surprised if the bin could physically cope with the weight of 110 kilos in it. Surely it would burst from the weight.

rubadub

D3V!L wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if the bin could physically cope with the weight of 110 kilos in it. Surely it would burst from the weight.

I have seen several people fill the bins to the brim with water to clean them. 240L bin holds 240kg of water.

If the weight is in the bottom it is easy enough to shift, just like those hand trolleys



We had free bins from panda for a while, a friend did too who was renovating his house and had loads of rubble in it, well over 100kg.

BorneTobyWilde

A lot of this going on in all fairness. They put bin on lift and press down on it with hand until it registers and then it empties. They add 40 kg plus each time they do it, free money.

BorneTobyWilde

rubadub wrote: »

We had free bins from panda for a while, a friend did too who was renovating his house and had loads of rubble in it, well over 100kg.

OP had no rubble or water in bin. For it to be 100 kg plus she's have to have a dead body in there. Far too heavy. Guy who weighed it probably pressed down on it while it was on scales to add 40 kg

ShaShaBear

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

OP had no rubble or water in bin. For it to be 100 kg plus she's have to have a dead body in there. Far too heavy. Guy who weighed it probably pressed down on it while it was on scales to add 40 kg

Had a good, hard think and honestly the heaviest thing that could have been in it was nappies to be honest. But one of our kids is only wearing one at night and the other one is in creche 4 days a week so most of her nappies are being disposed of there. Definitely no rubble or anything like that as it is rented property and we couldnt do any major works.

rubadub

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

OP had no rubble or water in bin. For it to be 100 kg plus she's have to have a dead body in there. Far too heavy. Guy who weighed it probably pressed down on it while it was on scales to add 40 kg

My reply was to the guy saying the bin would surely split.

Not sure why a bin man would risk his job for no personal gain. It's not like some independent dodgy trader on a fruit stall putting their finger on a scale. I very much doubt the bin men are getting % of the bin collection money.

BorneTobyWilde

The details of how exactly its weighed should be available for all to see. Does truck register every time it gets heavier , or is each individual bin weighed.
It's not full proof that's for sure. People should put bin on a scales to weigh it themselves to catch them out.