Time to licence pony & traps and rickshaws.

Fann Linn

Unable to post links, but today two tourists were killed in Kerry when an accident happened on a public road involving a pony and trap. RIP

In light of the above, plus the numerous accidents which occur on roads where sulkys and rickshaws are involved, is it now time for these modes of transport to be regulated and registered?

Timberrrrrrrr

Fann Linn wrote: »

Unable to post links, but today two tourists were killed in Kerry when an accident happened on a public road involving a pony and trap. RIP

In light of the above, plus the numerous accidents which occur on roads where sulkys and rickshaws are involved, is it now time for these modes of transport to be regulated and registered?

I thought they were licenced/regulated in killarney/Kerry?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

They are licenced. Plus one incident isn't sufficient for such a kneejerk reaction.

This is very sad. May they Rest In Peace. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-tourists-die-in-a-freak-accident-in-kerry-36789517.html

Graces7

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I thought they were licenced/regulated in killarney/Kerry?

They are and a vital part of our economy there. Our jaunting cars and jarveys. Terrible thing indeed.

That particular road is contested by the jarveys who tell folk cars cannot use it when they can

Graces7

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I thought they were licenced/regulated in killarney/Kerry?

They are and a vital part of our economy there. Our jaunting cars and jarveys. Terrible thing indeed.

That particular road is contested by the jarveys who tell folk cars cannot use it when they can

Not the first accident

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tourist-carriage-teeters-over-edge-of-cliff-on-the-lakes-of-killarney-450251.html

Fann Linn

Graces7 wrote: »

They are and a vital part of our economy there. Our jaunting cars and jarveys. Terrible thing indeed.

That particular road is contested by the jarveys who tell folk cars cannot use it when they can

Not the first accident

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tourist-carriage-teeters-over-edge-of-cliff-on-the-lakes-of-killarney-450251.html

Thanks. I didn't know that. Shouldn't be a problem so to register sulkys and rickshaws also.

ED E

The Jarvies are a local mini-mob. Law unto themselves. Ive no doubt the RSA ignore them the way CAB/Revenue ignore Rathkeale.

STB.

Graces7 wrote: »

Not the first accident

Yes.

Some might wonder how many dont make the papers.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

Will sulkies be regulated too under such legislation?

Hector Bellend

probably time to stop people killing themselves in them

mikeym

R.I.P

kneemos

Licensing obviously doesn't stop accidents.

the_pen_turner

does the horse care if its licenced or not.
the horse has bolted in this case. very little you can do to stop that.

Graces7

ED E wrote: »

The Jarvies are a local mini-mob. Law unto themselves. Ive no doubt the RSA ignore them the way CAB/Revenue ignore Rathkeale.

Actually you are wrong. They are even more carefully checked .. They add character to the town and attract many, and as this is National Park territory they are under even more stringently checked

See

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tourist-carriage-teeters-over-edge-of-cliff-on-the-lakes-of-killarney-450251.html

I know Pat Dawson personally and do not envy the jarvey.

Horse got put down.

That road is a dangerous one. I used to drive it once a year only just to stay atop the danger. Very popular and totally glorious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KatlUVfJ_BI

I miss Killarney! Especially the National Park folk

whisky_galore

Jarveys are a tradition and part of the local economy....sulkies don't come up under either of these headings.

Irish Guitarist

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to allow horses ridden by any section of society on a road. The slightest thing can scare them.

Graces7

The jarveys really are a caution.. They tell gullible tourists that the Gap of Dunloe road is closed to cars so folk will hire them

It is not closed to cars! The first time I went there I spoke to the jarveys to make sure

And you can access it from the other end where there are none

Knine

What a very sad day for Killarney. The Gap of Dunloe is one of my favourite places in Ireland. I have gone up it in a Jarvey several times but I have also rode horses up but had my Riding Hat on. As mad as it seems I thought the last time I was in a Jarvey that it would be a good idea to wear horse Riding Hats as it is a very bumpy trail & the horses fairly move fast at times. I have always found the drivers to be good fun & usually are locals.

I was there in August with my oldest daughter and we walked up it with the dogs but I ended up having a nasty fall and my arm was fairly cut up. There is a fair drop from the bridge where this accident happened & it is at the start of the trip.

I really feel for the relatives of the deceased as they came across the accident just after it happened.

whisky_galore

ED E wrote: »

The Jarvies are a local mini-mob. Law unto themselves. Ive no doubt the RSA ignore them the way CAB/Revenue ignore Rathkeale.

Killarney jarveys rhino horn smuggling ring?

malinheader

Unfortunately accidents happen. Talking about licencing or regulating this seasonal job will only make it impossible for the people doing it as the power's that be will see it as a money making opportunity for themselves. R.i.p to the two tourists

ohnonotgmail

malinheader wrote: »

Unfortunately accidents happen. Talking about licencing or regulating this seasonal job will only make it impossible for the people doing it as the power's that be will see it as a money making opportunity for themselves. R.i.p to the two tourists

the jarveys are licenced

WHIP IT!

In Dublin, at least, carriages are subjected to 'clearance' and regulation from the Carriage Office (pardon the pun) in the same way taxis are.

Ave Sodalis

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to allow horses ridden by any section of society on a road. The slightest thing can scare them.

The vast majority of accidents on horseback on the road are actually caused by drivers. There's no reason not to have them, given the huge benefits it has to the horse, so long as there's education (and a bit of common sense) on all sides.

If we could have bridle paths like in the UK, that would be fantastic.

Sofiztikated

I'm outraged, and think something should be banned or regulated, even though I know nothing about the incident, or the laws regarding such an incident.

Cookie_Monster

the_pen_turner wrote: »

does the horse care if its licenced or not.
the horse has bolted in this case. very little you can do to stop that.

If only guns were more available, they could have just shot it

brainfreeze

I don't understand the correlation though. I get for the need for regulation but how does it fit into the death of these two tourists?

How do you regulate for a startled horse? How would regulation stop a horse from bolting? What regulation would mean they would still be alive today, other than an outright ban in that area which is an over-reaction for a freak accident.

Knine

Just reading the news now they are saying that the horse did not bolt or collide with the bridge but stumbled & fell down a ravine. Hard to imagine how it happened as normally the horse would be on the road. If you opt to take a riding horse up the Gap, you are given a helmet. Maybe it should be the same for the jarvey's

gozunda

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually you are wrong. They are even more carefully checked .. They add character to the town and attract many, and as this is National Park territory they are under even more stringently checked

See

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tourist-carriage-teeters-over-edge-of-cliff-on-the-lakes-of-killarney-450251.html

I know Pat Dawson personally and do not envy the jarvey.

Horse got put down.

That road is a dangerous one. I used to drive it once a year only just to stay atop the danger. Very popular and totally glorious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KatlUVfJ_BI

I miss Killarney! Especially the National Park folk

Horrible accident as most accidents involving fatalities are and a terrible thing for the visitors family.

Do you know what happened to the horse that it was put down?

Badly Drunk Boy

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to allow horses ridden by any section of society on a road. The slightest thing can scare them.

It's not quite the same thing but I was travelling from Kildare town to Newbridge the other day, and realised that there are special lights to alert people that there are racehorses on the road, or near the road. This is at the edge of the Curragh racecourse.

There are special buttons, like at a traffic light, that the jockey presses when they are crossing a road or in close proximity. I presume after a minute or two the lights stop flashing, but it's not a bad idea to alert drivers to slow down. If the horses are on the road, they'd only be trotting along.

GoneHome

[QUOTE Do you know what happened to the horse that it was put down?[/QUOTE]

It obviously had injuries that weren't treatable or survivable in the long term, similar to a horse being put down if it gets injured in a race

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

Horrible accident as most accidents involving fatalities are and a terrible thing for the visitors family.

Do you know what happened to the horse that it was put down?

You mean why? No idea
This has more detail than other reports

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/everyone-in-kerry-is-truly-shocked-and-saddened-two-tourists-killed-in-freak-accident-36789517.html

That poor jarvey too. Those man love their horses. Many are settled travellers.

Oh here. " the horse was seriously injured and had to be put down"

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-americans-freak-kerry-horse-accident

Dakota Dan

Maurice Riordan wrote: »

Will sulkies be regulated too under such legislation?

You can be damn sure they won't.

Dakota Dan

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm outraged, and think something should be banned or regulated, even though I know nothing about the incident, or the laws regarding such an incident.

Yet after possibly 200 years of Jarveys in Kerry you see fit to ban them. By the way they are highly regulated.

Graces7

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Yet after possibly 200 years of Jarveys in Kerry you see fit to ban them. By the way they are highly regulated.

They travel that road much of the year and so few accidents

Dear God;

"Ms Few’s daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren were travelling in a separate cart and came across the scene moments after the accident."

_Dara_

So sad.

But the driver was apparently very experienced. Horses can be unpredictable. This is just a sad, freak accident. Shame they got thrown down an embankment.

Graces7

_Dara_ wrote: »

So sad.

But the driver was apparently very experienced. Horses can be unpredictable. This is just a sad, freak accident. Shame they got thrown down an embankment.

And usually these horses are well trained and docile. A good relationship with the jarveys.

Knine

Graces7 wrote: »

And usually these horses are well trained and docile. A good relationship with the jarveys.

I agree. I found the drivers to be brilliant with the horses and to be nice guys. I hired horses to.ride up the gap many times and they always gave me a nice horse. I seen mention of the horses been badly treated. I never saw such issues. They all look well fed and there is a stream half way up that the horses can stop at if they want a drink.

I don’t know what to make of this really. I’m from Killarney and know many jarveys. They take good care of the horses and they are usually very well trained. However I’ve heard of (and witnessed) incidents where the horses have been startled and accidents have happened. Just very sad really. RIP to the two that died.

Hopefully it doesn’t affect the tourist trade too much as my family (and many others in Killarney) depend on it.

Graces7

Lia_lia wrote: »

I don’t know what to make of this really. I’m from Killarney and know many jarveys. They take good care of the horses and they are usually very well trained. However I’ve heard of (and witnessed) incidents where the horses have been startled and accidents have happened. Just very sad really. RIP to the two that died.

Hopefully it doesn’t affect the tourist trade too much as my family (and many others in Killarney) depend on it.

I know. They say that there was no apparent reason for the horse to bolt.

It is very early in the season and that may alleviate the effect. I Lived years in Killarney and hated leaving but landlord was selling up and could not find anywhere.

A family death on holiday is a nightmare.Happened to us years ago,

They held a prayer meeting today up there

jmayo

Fann Linn wrote: »

Unable to post links, but today two tourists were killed in Kerry when an accident happened on a public road involving a pony and trap. RIP

In light of the above, plus the numerous accidents which occur on roads where sulkys and rickshaws are involved, is it now time for these modes of transport to be regulated and registered?

WTF.

This was a jarvey with a jaunting car or trap.
There is a big difference between it and sulkies, never mind rickshaws.

And they never fecking race along the road like sulkies as you would no doubt bloody know if you were ever stuck behind them. :rolleyes:

Thee is a damn big difference between these and what passes for unregulated open road sulky racing.

Oh and most importantly of all most of the owners of sulkies couldn't care less about regulation and registration.

Sofiztikated

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Yet after possibly 200 years of Jarveys in Kerry you see fit to ban them. By the way they are highly regulated.

I think you missed the sarcasm dripping from my post.

byhookorbycrook

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Honestly I think it's a bad idea to allow horses ridden by any section of society on a road. The slightest thing can scare them.

Horse riders are as entitled as anyone else to be on the road. Like any form of transport, accidents may happen. We don't know what spooked this horse, it may well have been an asshole car driver. Perhaps you should wait for facts first?

Graces7

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Horse riders are as entitled as anyone else to be on the road. Like any form of transport, accidents may happen. We don't know what spooked this horse, it may well have been an asshole car driver. Perhaps you should wait for facts first?

No; road is very narrow and one lane at that point and that would have been seen. See the bridge etc in the articles?

Quackster

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the jarveys are licenced

The only licencing I'm aware of is for the use of the public area in the centre of Killarney town where jarveys ply for trade. Kerry Co Co only make a limited number of spots available there so only some of the jarveys have these licences.

The jarveys don't require any licence for being on public roads. I'm not sure of the situation that applies in Killarney National Park off the public roads. I assume NPWS has some licencing system, at least for operating in the designated areas where they ply for trade.

Graces7

Quackster wrote: »

The only licencing I'm aware of is for the use of the public area in the centre of Killarney town where jarveys ply for trade. Kerry Co Co only make a limited number of spots available there so only some of the jarveys have these licences.

The jarveys don't require any licence for being on public roads. I'm not sure of the situation that applies in Killarney National Park off the public roads. I assume NPWS has some licencing system, at least for operating in the designated areas where they ply for trade.

see
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/seanad2009071500011

They are indeed licensed and regulated

paw patrol

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually you are wrong. They are even more carefully checked .. They add character to the town and attract many, and as this is National Park territory they are under even more stringently checked

You are wrong - they are a mafia . sneaky cute hoor types running a closed shop frightening off outsiders.

always got a sniff of the gangster off them....having spent much time in kerry.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/three-killarney-jarveys-pay-couple-15k-for-scurrilous-harassment-371952.html

Anne Lucey
Over €15,000 has been paid by three Killarney jarveys in compensation to a Killarney couple against whom they ran “a scurrilous” campaign of harassment via email, phone and internet.


The money was handed over by the men’s solicitors at Killarney District Court. Hefty contributions are to be made also to the court poor box.

The victims, Julie and Michael Sweetman, suffered a sustained campaign of harassment in May 2010 after they set up in business against Michael and Paul Tangney, Judge James O’Connor found in the case which took a number of days, over the past year.

A lengthy investigation was conducted by gardaí in which computers were seized and examined.

Michael Tangney aged 27, a single man, and his brother Paul Tangney, aged 41, a father of three, each with separate addresses at Muckross Close, Killarney, had denied harassing “by persistingly communicating with them, including by means of telephone and internet”, on dates inclusive between May 9 and May 25, 2010, Michael Sweetman and his wife Julie Sweetman.

They said they had no personal animosity against the couple.

The Tangneys owned eight of the 37 jarvey licences operating from the town centre jarvey stand. The campaign against the Sweetmans began after Mr Sweetman joined the newly established jarvey co-operative.
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A former employee of the Tangneys, Kevin Counihan, aged 34, of Apartment 1, High Street, Killarney, had pleaded guilty at an early stage to the charge and had also acted as a whistleblower, a previous court was told. He has now paid €500 into court in compensation, while the Tangney brothers paid €7,500 each.

Each man is also to make hefty contributions to the court poor box — €2,500 each in the case of the Tangneys and €750 in the case of Mr Counihan. The deadline for this payment is July.

The harassing of the couple had been “scurrilous” , and born out of greed, Judge James O’Connor found. He convicted all three in November and adjourned a decision on whether to jail the men to see if compensation would be paid.

Blocked calls had been made from a hotel across the street from the jarvey stand in Killarney and there would be loud laughter when Mr Sweetman would answer the hoax calls; false bookings were made, and the Sweetmans, who are childless, had been signed up to a Pampers nappy website.

They had also been signed up to a fertility clinic.

Mr Sweetman had been signed up to credit card, and dating websites, including gay sites.

Around 250 emails were sent to the couple, as well as a huge amount of spam.

Phonecalls would come in the middle of the night and no-one was at the other end, Julie Sweetman said.

Quackster

Graces7 wrote: »

see
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/seanad2009071500011

They are indeed licensed and regulated

That merely confirms what I assumed which is that the NPWS licences 45 jarveys to operate on the internal roads within Killarney National Park.

As far as I'm aware, there is no licencing requirement for them to operate on public roads.

Atoms for Peace

There's more than enough legislation in place to get sulkies off the road but little in the way of enforcement. But anyway comparing sulkies to jarveys is like comparing a boy racer to a granny in a Micra.

whisky_galore

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

There's more than enough legislation in place to get sulkies off the road but little in the way of enforcement. But anyway comparing sulkies to jarveys is like comparing a boy racer to a granny in a Micra.

Not to mention the animal welfare issue, horses aren't built to go hammering away down hard road surfaces. And when they come to the end of their lives just dump them in someone else's field...or the side of the road even.

Graces7

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

There's more than enough legislation in place to get sulkies off the road but little in the way of enforcement. But anyway comparing sulkies to jarveys is like comparing a boy racer to a granny in a Micra.

Amen to this.

The jarveys are great. Individuals with character.
Their own way of getting results..

http://www.radiokerry.ie/killarney-jarveys-abandon-horse-nappies-in-protest-over-alleged-illegal-operators/

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/jarveys-no-to-horse-nappies-27368009.html

In all my years in Killarney. I met only kindness from them and they often gave me lifts and never charged me.

Characters in a dull world