Is the Irish pub in trouble?

JupiterKid

It seems that since the 2004 smoking ban and the crackdown on drink driving and the post Tiger recession, pubs are closing all over the country in their droves. Rural towns that had perhaps 8 or 9 pubs now only have 3 or 4. Those remaining open are having to offer food offerings, smoking beer gardens, live music. Many pubs only open in the evenings on a Thurs to Sunday basis now.

The tiny old man single room pubs are virtually disappearing. What is the reason for this change? More home drinking? Pub alcohol prices too high or a more general shift in Irish culture?

Is really does seem that the the golden era of the Irish pub is well and truly over.

Thoughts?

No loss if they are. The whole tvs blaring in every corner crap when you just want to have a quiet chat with somebody long ago turned me off them. And heaven forfend that you decided to meet on a night when a group of obnoxious people are screaming at it/ imposing their noise on you.

whiskeyman

Yes, the golden era of stinky, dirty pubs where drink driving was the norm is slowly coming to an end...

JupiterKid

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

I’d love to see much more late evening cafes here. In Dublin it’s virtually impossible to have a coffee or a cuppa after 8pm unless it’s in a pub.

whomitconcerns

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

But, and I mean this with the greatest of respect to your recovery, there are lots of people who are not alcoholics who would like to go into a tiny one barman one room pub and have a few pints and a chat. Me being one of them.

baylah17

whomitconcerns wrote: »

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

But, and I mean this with the greatest of respect to your recovery, there are lots of people who are not alcoholics who would like to go into a tiny one barman one room pub and have a few pints and a chat. Me being one of them.

Well go open yourself
Instead of lamenting the fact that there are too few

Day Lewin

Nope: the Irish pub will never die out. It's a great and sociable institution.

However, it's no harm if some of them have had to close; because in some places there were far too many. In some villages every fifth building was a pub. Made the place look as if the whole population were lazy boozers.

A good pub is a noble place; you can sit and chat and have a drink, or even read your newspaper with a pot of tea. One of the best things in life, an Irish pub. May their measure never be shortened!

Tell me how

baylah17 wrote:

Well go open yourself Instead of lamenting the fact that there are too few

6 posts in and you're berating a contributor to the discussion? And that's the sum total of your contribution? SMH.



Yes, imo, the pub as we knew it is dead. Yes, drink driving enforcement played a significant part on this. Some pubs obviously had loud tv's, music and obnoxious groups at times but they were not always like that.
But, there's more to it than that in my view.
In the town where I live, the population has increased significantly over last 20 years, there's plenty living within easy walking distance from town centre, there's no shortage of taxis, there are quiet pubs where you could easily have a chat and yet, at 11:00 on a Friday or Saturday night it could just as easily be a Monday or Tuesday. I'd love to have go-pro footage from walking through the streets from the late 90's because the image in my head is that they were teeming with people most weekends. Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly.

Also, It's much easier (cheaper) to sit at home with the kids upstairs than pay for a taxi each way and a babysitter etc.

But the biggest influence, in my view is the trend towards social media. People have replaced light hearted banal interactions with friends and strangers with screen interactions, likes and thanks.

padser

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

Yup, I'm hanging this morning as well

munchkin_utd

There is a massive shift, but the government has helped kill the country pubs by making the licences transferable to city / urban off licences.
Essentially the expansion of city off licences depends on a parallel proportional slashing of the number of country pubs.

You couldnt make it up.

whisky_galore

The isolated pub in rural Ireland is pretty much fcuked, unless it has a good following and something to make it stand out from the rest. They'll go the way of the creamery and the blacksmith's forge.

The numbers of oul lads and 'professional drinkers' content to prop up a bar counter all day talking shyte are dwindling.

bigpink

The fun and characters are gone it’s all TVs WiFi craft beers and gastro pub food

somesoldiers

Paying > e5 for a can of Bulmers that has a message at the top saying "Do not expect to pay any more than e2 for this can" puts me right off

also when the wife insist on coming with me nowadays and drinking a single bottle of coke for each vodka so the night costs me e150 rather than e50 if I was on my todd.


yes, I know this is binge drinking but I lie to myself and say it's ok, part of my culture etc as I only get out once every 8 weeks

VinLieger

Or just maybe publicans relentlessly priced themselves out of the market?

Their response to this has been lobbying for heavy handed government intervention via minimum unit pricing that will only affect off licenses in an effort to drive off license prices closer to the massively already over inflated pub prices.

I do have to laugh at the OP lamenting how pubs now have to "try" to get business by offering food, beer gardens etc.... heaven forbid a service industry might have to make an effort to get customers in the door.

Also the attitude that drinking at home is more dangerous as a barman might cut you off is ludicrous in this country. Im in my mid 30's and ive only ever seen people get kicked out or refused in a pub or nightclub in Ireland for making trouble, publicans don't care how drunk you are as long as you arent breaking their stuff and keep giving them your money.

The solution to that is obvious make publicans legally responsible for serving customers too much booze like they do in other countries, Australia for example. However this won't happen once again due to the publican's lobbying of the government will never allow it.

andekwarhola

bigpink wrote: »

The fun and characters are gone it’s all TVs WiFi craft beers and gastro pub food

As opposed to dirty pubs with nothing to eat except tayto and the same choice of 3-4 beers in every single pub?

aziz

One thing I remember that before the recession,it seemed like every second week there were another price increase on drink,Diageo would make a announcement that due to a increase in petrol/diesel/barley or some such thing,they would have to increase the price of a pint by 1 or 2 cent.
Next day you go in for a pint it was gone up 10 cent.

McMurphy

I think the rise of digital media is contributing to declining pub numbers.

I can have a few of the lads over with a few cans, Netflix/Deezer or something else playing in the background,.

Vs us heading to the pub, tv on up in the corner, and liuke warm 6e pints.

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No loss if they are. The whole tvs blaring in every corner crap when you just want to have a quiet chat with somebody long ago turned me off them. And heaven forfend that you decided to meet on a night when a group of obnoxious people are screaming at it/ imposing their noise on you.

I can think of at least 15 pubs off the top of my head in Dublin CC along that don’t have ‘tvs blaring in every corner’. And as for people enjoying themselves in a pub - that’s the point. If people being a bit loud in the pub is so abhorrent to you then I’d suggest you continue to avoid them, and instead spend your time on the Internet giving out about stuff whilst doing your ‘old man yells at cloud’ thing.

The urban Irish pub isn’t dying. It’s having to change to meet consumer tastes. That includes a wider drinks offering, sometimes food, games etc. Other places like Toners and the Long Hall have to change nothing at all to be popular. The rural pub is dying because in most cases rural Ireland is dying. That’s a wider issue.

razorblunt

I think they need to move with the times. Going to the "boozer" for a session if all well and good every now and then but its no longer sustainable.
I think they need to move towards what a lot of UK pubs are doing (not counting Wetherspoons here).
Decent selection of beers, decent food, not just frozen burgers and ham and cheese toasties.

A lot of the pubs here do a roaring breakfast/brunch, lunch and dinner as well as being busy during the night too.

I think it genuinely helps that you can get more than the Coors, Miller, Heineken, Budweiser tripe too.
It's enjoyable to walk into a bar here and take a look at the beers they have.

JohnnyFlash

razorblunt wrote: »

I think they need to move with the times. Going to the "boozer" for a session if all well and good every now and then but its no longer sustainable.
I think they need to move towards what a lot of UK pubs are doing (not counting Wetherspoons here).
Decent selection of beers, decent food, not just frozen burgers and ham and cheese toasties.

A lot of the pubs here do a roaring breakfast/brunch, lunch and dinner as well as being busy during the night too.

I think it genuinely helps that you can get more than the Coors, Miller, Heineken, Budweiser tripe too.
It's enjoyable to walk into a bar here and take a look at the beers they have.

The food in pubs in Ireland tends to be far superior to the equivalent found in England. The casual dining scene in England and Wales tends to be shïte in general. Chain restaurants, Pret, and microwaved pub grub.

El Tarangu

JupiterKid wrote: »

Rural towns that had perhaps 8 or 9 pubs now only have 3 or 4. Those remaining open are having to offer food offerings, smoking beer gardens, live music.

Pubs will be around for a long time yet, but there was no way that the market could sustain the same number of pubs nowadays, when there is more things to do in the evening (going to the gym, restaurants, Netflix, etc), as it did back when going to the pub was the sole source of diversion in the evenings.

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Yes, because If people being a bit loud in the pub is so abhorrent to you then I’d suggest you continue to avoid them, and instead spend your time on the Internet giving out about stuff whilst doing your ‘old man yells at cloud’ thing.

The urban Irish pub isn’t dying. It’s having to change to meet consumer tastes.

Oh, defensive. You sound like you're in the pub industry...

Ubbquittious

Deleted User wrote: »

No loss if they are. The whole tvs blaring in every corner crap when you just want to have a quiet chat with somebody long ago turned me off them. And heaven forfend that you decided to meet on a night when a group of obnoxious people are screaming at it/ imposing their noise on you.

I was in a pub not so long ago where the power had gone out. Everything was lovely and cosy not too bright or dark. The fire was lit and everyone was chatting just like they were back in the 1800s. I was damn glad my pint of Murphys was nearly finished when the two massive tellyboxes came on and started noising and flickering again.

chrissb8

It's not the publics obligation to stay loyal to these frankly depressing pubs. Pubs need to offer more in the way of entertainment. Why anyone would go to a pub to drink 4 or 5 pints of watery beer like Heineken when they can stay at home with friends making a great dinner and having the craic into the wee hours is beyond me.

Pubs should offer more in the way of games, setting and music offerings. People's tastes have become more varied from their beer, food & music. My local has reggae nights, a fish and chips bar installed as well as plenty of different drinks offerings from a variety of gins to new taps every other month. It's kind of a community hub at this point as well with events held throughout the days like board game nights or even bingo. It's not sad to see pubs that are too lazy to change with the times go. I have no pity for any pub who is too lazy or not bothered to change, people want something new and not more of the same.

That said, I will always have a place in my heart for a quiet pub with a few pints and flowing conversation with a friend.

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, defensive. You sound like you're in the pub industry...

If going to the pub on a Friday or Saturday for a gallon of porter means I’m in the pub industry, then yes. Otherwise, no. I just see loads of pubs doing well. Some focus on food (Chophouse, Exchequer), some on beer offerings (Galway Bay Breweries, Cassidy’s, Porterhouse), some on gaming ( Square Ball, Token). The traditional places like Long Hall, Mulligans, Toners, Stags Head have to change nothing to be successful. Some suburban pubs do well by offering some of the above and being convenient.

There’s a huge variety in Dublin, and it’s perfectly easy to find one without loud TVs and semi-feral customers. And they do well. I just felt it was necessary to reply to yet another one of your borderline misanthropic posts that rely on taking the worst possible scenario about anything, and then writing a painfully dull diatribe about it.

For Forks Sake

JupiterKid wrote: »

I’d love to see much more late evening cafes here. In Dublin it’s virtually impossible to have a coffee or a cuppa after 8pm unless it’s in a pub.

Starbucks (not my coffee house of choice, but they're everywhere), most city centre shops open until 10, Stephens Green 24 hours

Odyssey 2005

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

I’d love to see much more late evening cafes here. In Dublin it’s virtually impossible to have a coffee or a cuppa after 8pm unless it’s in a pub.

Tip over to McDonald's. Lots of them open after 8. Coffees not too bad either. I hear there's plenty of them up in Dubland.

Dakota Dan

whisky_galore wrote: »

The isolated pub in rural Ireland is pretty much fcuked, unless it has a good following and something to make it stand out from the rest. They'll go the way of the creamery and the blacksmith's forge.

The numbers of oul lads and 'professional drinkers' content to prop up a bar counter all day talking shyte are dwindling.

The ould lads have been replaced with middle aged women talking sh1te on Facebook.

Tell me how

chrissb8 wrote:

It's not the publics obligation to stay loyal to these frankly depressing pubs. Pubs need to offer more in the way of entertainment. Why anyone would go to a pub to drink 4 or 5 pints of watery beer like Heineken when they can stay at home with friends making a great dinner and having the craic into the wee hours is beyond me.

I think both parties need to think what type of venue they want. Some pubs could do more certainly, some people could also consider their responsibility/opportunity towards generating an atmosphere.

Take quiz nights, they're something we aren't very good at doing here, a pub could organize it very easily but it needs people to participate.

Quiz nights, karaoke, pool, darts or card tournaments are very easy to put on, but, they need people to turn up or else they'll be a bust and won't happen again.

P.S. I like Heineken. Think there's a lot of snobbery around artisan beers.

Richard Hillman

I don't think the smoking ban affected anything. Even as a smoker, I find the environment much more pleasant.

The big problem, that is now irreversible, is that the pub is no longer THE PLACE to socialise. Even through the Celtic Tiger era and the crash, the Pub was still the place to catch up with close friend and bump into old acquaintances from the area. Now social media does this for us.

For my closest friends, I haven't been out with them in nearly a month, but I know what they're all up to, all the big news etc via WhatsApp etc. For old acquaintances, they update their Facebook, Twitter and whatever.

10 Years ago, if you didn't go to the pub you were out of the loop. It was a fun place to but more importantly it was the primary place of socializing. Now its not, it's just an occasionally fun, yet expensive place to be.

Things like Netflix and Video on Demand are also a big player in the death of the local pub.

munchkin_utd

El Tarangu wrote: »

Pubs will be around for a long time yet, but there was no way that the market could sustain the same number of pubs nowadays, when there is more things to do in the evening (going to the gym, restaurants, Netflix, etc), as it did back when going to the pub was the sole source of diversion in the evenings.

more than that though, in the past Ireland was a different place than nowadays in so many ways
- houses were crap, seriously, my mother in law was brought up with 8 other kids in a tiny thatched cottage, which was then "renovated" by covering the thatch with corraged sheets. It'd drive you to the drink, but not at home, where would you sit with all the kids about the place !
- there was way more bachelors down the country than nowdays, often working and living on a relatives farm, in tiny crappy houses full of kids. It'd definitely drive you to the pub.
- if you were a bachelors down the country, and didn't own a farm, you were never going to marry as you just hadn't the means to support a family. Actually, your life was just horrible, and the only escape was the pub, or the mental home, or be a priest, or emigrate.

Its hard for a lot of people nowadays to comprehend how bleak Ireland was, but for so many up until relatively recently the pub was just the only escape from the bleakness.

Now that Ireland is less bleak, the pubs (and mental homes) are less needed.

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

No loss if they are. The whole tvs blaring in every corner crap when you just want to have a quiet chat with somebody long ago turned me off them. And heaven forfend that you decided to meet on a night when a group of obnoxious people are screaming at it/ imposing their noise on you.

Excellent points Fuaranach - but there are a few decent places left that don't entertain that.

razorblunt

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The food in pubs in Ireland tends to be far superior to the equivalent found in England. The casual dining scene in England and Wales tends to be shïte in general. Chain restaurants, Pret, and microwaved pub grub.

You've been going to the wrong places then.
Or maybe its a good job I live in Scotland.

chrissb8

Tell me how wrote: »

I think both parties need to think what type of venue they want. Some pubs could do more certainly, some people could also consider their responsibility/opportunity towards generating an atmosphere.

Take quiz nights, they're something we aren't very good at doing here, a pub could organize it very easily but it needs people to participate.

Quiz nights, karaoke, pool, darts or card tournaments are very easy to put on, but, they need people to turn up or else they'll be a bust and won't happen again.

P.S. I like Heineken. Think there's a lot of snobbery around artisan beers.

Agree with your points but people will come because the events themselves. Sweeten these competitions up with prizes and people will come.

Just on the Artisan beer snobbery. I liken it to food. We all like good quality tasty food aplomb with variety. I don't see why this should be any different to drink. Heineken is grand but frankly there are companies putting out much tastier and better made stuff. Think people have copped that and started thinking why they even bothered sticking to 2 or 3 beers for years and years when beer is very diverse with 100's of years of different techniques and the same amount of varieties.

I mean I don't sit there laughing at others for drinking Budweiser I just think it's a bit sad that something that people do a lot in this country can be a little unadventurous when it comes to having some beers. Each to their own though.

beefburrito

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

I’d love to see much more late evening cafes here. In Dublin it’s virtually impossible to have a coffee or a cuppa after 8pm unless it’s in a pub.

Nothing better than gossip and taking people's inventory in a cafe

Zebra3

Big shout out to those in rural pubs with their WhatsApp groups to advise each other about AGS checkpoints that may be operating in their area.

Help keeping the bodies piling up.

Agricola

I was sitting in the viewing area of a local mountain one Sunday afternoon and I was struck by the number of middle aged fellas with paunches packed into a lycra top, that whizzed by me on a cycling event. 20/30 years ago and more, these lads would have spent their Sundays in the local scoffing pints.

We've moved on. We like to live up to the "happy drunken Irish" stereotype every now and again but the days of the pub being like a second home for people is long gone. People have finally discovered that there's lot of other things you can do with your time off.

JohnnyFlash

Zebra3 wrote: »

Big shout out to those in rural pubs with their WhatsApp groups to advise each other about AGS checkpoints that may be operating in their area.

Help keeping the bodies piling up.

Any proof of this, or just idle speculation and hearsay?

Day Lewin

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I don't think the smoking ban affected anything. Even as a smoker, I find the environment much more pleasant.

The big problem, that is now irreversible, is that the pub is no longer THE PLACE to socialise. Even through the Celtic Tiger era and the crash, the Pub was still the place to catch up with close friend and bump into old acquaintances from the area. Now social media does this for us.

For my closest friends, I haven't been out with them in nearly a month, but I know what they're all up to, all the big news etc via WhatsApp etc. For old acquaintances, they update their Facebook, Twitter and whatever.

10 Years ago, if you didn't go to the pub you were out of the loop. It was a fun place to but more importantly it was the primary place of socializing. Now its not, it's just an occasionally fun, yet expensive place to be.

Things like Netflix and Video on Demand are also a big player in the death of the local pub.

Yeah, but that isn't a weakness: it's a strength. Pubs can now be appreciated from time to time as the social oasis that they are; it is no longer a default that anyone MUST go there because there's nothing else to do!

I have a varied social life which includes friends, family, parties, visits, travelling and social media. So I don't go to pubs all that often. But when I do, I can sit, sip a drink, chat or read, and just relax. And there are several near enough to walk home from.
It is a traditional pleasure, a temple to the art of conversation. Which is far from dead!

PS And the drink doesn't have to be alcohol, either. I'm not so sad that I can't socialise without booze.

The Bishop Basher

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Now that Ireland is less bleak, the pubs (and mental homes) are less needed.

Everyone's just medicating at home now instead.

The rise in addiction and mental health issues is disturbing.

At least the pub was a social outlet for many, talking to real people instead of strangers on a laptop.

Zebra3

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Any proof of this, or just idle speculation and hearsay?

Had locals boasting about it to me.

Tell me how

Zebra3 wrote: »

Had locals boasting about it to me.

Well that's empirical evidence.

Some lads tole me that no one in towns are drinking anymore because they're all bombed out of their skulls on coke.*

Can we take that as fact too?

* I am being flippant even though I suspect plenty might also tell me here that this is the case.

JohnnyFlash

Swanner wrote: »

Everyone's just medicating at home now instead.

The rise in addiction and mental health issues is disturbing.

At least the pub was a social outlet for many, talking to real people instead of strangers on a laptop.

The bottle of 14% red wine a night in front of the telly to ‘relax’ is becoming a huge problem according to the leading addiction psychiatrist in the country. He was on the radio a few weeks ago. Numbers going to rehab is through the roof.

thebull85

I love pubs.

Stonedpilot

JupiterKid wrote: »

Welll as an alcoholic in early recovery I personally don’t lament the demise of the pub culture.

But look at how much booze can be bought now in supermarkets, petrol stations as well as offies, Home drinking might actually be more dangerous than pubs where the barman might tell you to go home as you’ve had enough.

I’d love to see much more late evening cafes here. In Dublin it’s virtually impossible to have a coffee or a cuppa after 8pm unless it’s in a pub.

Early recovery?. Dont get wrapped up in that 12 stepper AA diatribe.

I have met guys "in recovery" 40/50 years think they have an incurable disease havent had a drink in maybe 30 years and still think they are "alcoholic". And doing 12 steps will cure the incurable disease.
Alot of mental gymnastics to go through!.

The truth is recovery is a minset you are always in when does one leave recovery in AA. Never.
Not really step 12. Continued to ...

kunst nugget

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The bottle of 14% red wine a night in front of the telly to ‘relax’ is becoming a huge problem according to the leading addiction psychiatrist in the country. He was on the radio a few weeks ago. Numbers going to rehab is through the roof.

And yet the amount we drink as a nation has dropped considerably since the height of the boom years and we've slipped down the European drinking league from 8th to 18th.

https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/young-people-in-ireland-are-drinking-less-alcohol-than-their-parents-and-this-could-be-the-reason-why-35831374.html

I'd hazard the guess that if there is a rise in people going to rehab, it's because people are becoming more cognisant of the fact that their drinking is becoming an issue and seek help with it rather than just burying the problem under more drinking as would have been the more likely solution in times past.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Cienciano

Tell me how wrote: »

Well that's empirical evidence.

Some lads tole me that no one in towns are drinking anymore because they're all bombed out of their skulls on coke.*

Can we take that as fact too?

* I am being flippant even though I suspect plenty might also tell me here that this is the case.

Is a whatsapp group like that so far fetched? I mean, it's normal for pubs to tell people of checkpoints, pubs have been doing it for years. Doing it through whatsapp is unbelievable somehow?

JohnnyFlash

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I’d be pretty sure the recovery plans they suggest involve more than just a few pills. Medication, talk therapy, support groups, meditation, exercise, routine as well. A holistic approach to recovery.

Zebra3

Tell me how wrote: »

Well that's empirical evidence.

Some lads tole me that no one in towns are drinking anymore because they're all bombed out of their skulls on coke.*

Can we take that as fact too?

* I am being flippant even though I suspect plenty might also tell me here that this is the case.

You can believe whatever you ever want.

JohnnyFlash

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Early recovery?. Dont get wrapped up in that 12 stepper AA diatribe.

I have met guys "in recovery" 40/50 years think they have an incurable disease havent had a drink in maybe 30 years and still think they are "alcoholic". And doing 12 steps will cure the incurable disease.
Alot of mental gymnastics to go through!.

The truth is recovery is a minset you are always in when does one leave recovery in AA. Never.
Not really step 12. Continued to ...

Just because AA didn’t work for you, or someone you know, doesn’t mean it hasn’t worked for millions of people worldwide. It has saved literally millions of lives, and given them a life they couldn’t have imagined while in the depths of alcohol addiction.

Your advice to someone in recovery in that post of yours was less than useless.