N70 - Milltown bypass

marno21

In response to successfully bypassing most of County Kerry in the last few years (Castleisland, Tralee, Kenmare, Dingle and soon Listowel), Kerry County Council have a Milltown bypass in their County Development Plan. The scheme would be quite simple and would involve a short single carraigeway link from the N70 south of Milltown (where a 4km upgrade is currently ongoing which will provide a decent road most of the way to Killorglin) to the N70 between Milltown and Castlemaine, potentially bypassing the dangerous Heffernan's bend between the towns. The one flaw with a western link is the lack of connection to the R563 Killarney Road although this could be built seperately.

The N70 is the main route between Killorglin and West Kerry and every other part of the country besides Killarney and Cork through Milltown and is a busy commuter route both to and from Tralee and to the many industrial units in Killorglin.

Planning hasn't even started yet and there are objections:

http://www.radiokerry.ie/proposal-construct-bypass-around-mid-kerry-village-will-met-strong-opposition/

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

In response to successfully bypassing most of County Kerry in the last few years (Castleisland, Tralee, Kenmare, Dingle and soon Listowel), Kerry County Council have a Milltown bypass in their County Development Plan. The scheme would be quite simple and would involve a short single carraigeway link from the N70 south of Milltown (where a 4km upgrade is currently ongoing which will provide a decent road most of the way to Killorglin) to the N70 between Milltown and Castlemaine, potentially bypassing the dangerous Heffernan's bend between the towns. The one flaw with a western link is the lack of connection to the R563 Killarney Road although this could be built seperately.

The N70 is the main route between Killorglin and West Kerry and every other part of the country besides Killarney and Cork through Milltown and is a busy commuter route both to and from Tralee and to the many industrial units in Killorglin.

Planning hasn't even started yet and there are objections:

http://www.radiokerry.ie/proposal-construct-bypass-around-mid-kerry-village-will-met-strong-opposition/

An area that's clearly a time warp from the early 1980's - well, I guess it's time to get those folks ready for the future and reveal the year!

2018

marno21

Public consultation on the scheme this week

http://www.radiokerry.ie/public-invited-view-plans-milltown-bypass/

lottpaul

Local councillor Michael O'Shea has been very vocal in the past few weeks, largely in opposition to the bypass. His argument is that the people of the town should have the deciding say in whether or not it goes ahead, rather than the people who have to navigate its very awkward streets and junction on a daily basis. He fears for their businesses etc, an argument that has been made for every town and village ever bypassed in the past 40 years.
For anyone not familiar with the area, Milltown is on the main Tralee/Castlemaine/Killorglin/Cahirciveen and Killarney/Dingle road, and gets very busy in the summer season. It also has a very odd junction where traffic coming along what seems to be the main street from Killarney has to yield to traffic emerging from a side road coming from Killorglin. Traffic coming from the Tralee side has priority over everywhere else but most visitors don't realise that and often come to a full stop! It's a mess and a bypass is long overdue and badly needed!

Fr Tod Umptious

The junction is a bit odd alright and it's poorly sign posted from the Tralee side.

But its only really a problem during the morning school rush, and even then it's only really a problem for people coming from the sounth turning right to go up to the schools.

At that time there is a high volume of traffic coming from Tralee heading to Killorglin and they flow freely through the junction while the traffic turning right has to yeild.

It's also busy coming down from the Killarney side for anyone going towards Tralee.

But it's only a issues for 20mins during that school rush hour.

I've never seen a tailback otherwise based on volume.

There are a nmberr of shops in the village, with parking on the street or otherwise that would see a big drop off in passing trade were there to be a bypass.

I'm sure there are other parts of Kerry that might be better served with improved road infrastructure.

Quackster

Two options under consideration.

http://docstore.kerrycoco.ie/KCCWebsite/roads/milltownmap.pdf

marno21

Intelligent short bypass which makes a lot of sense for N70 traffic

I would go with option B as it removes more of the **** N70 on the Castlemaine side

Locals can't complain as Dingle -> Killarney traffic will still be going through Milltown along with local traffic. This will take a lot of heavy traffic out of the town

Fr Tod Umptious

marno21 wrote: »

Intelligent short bypass which makes a lot of sense for N70 traffic

I would go with option B as it removes more of the **** N70 on the Castlemaine side

Locals can't complain as Dingle -> Killarney traffic will still be going through Milltown along with local traffic. This will take a lot of heavy traffic out of the town

I'd go with option B also, takes away the bends and keeps the road well away from the football field.

A lot of passing traffic stops at Spar,both chemist shops, the butchers and the takeway.

They will certainly be affected.

If one had the opportunity to build a shop/petrol station/cafe on the northern end of it they could do very well.

tubbs26

Travel this road regularly and a bypass would be great.

I see the local politician is arguing against it on the basis the town will suffer because of less traffic passing through.

Has it no been shown in other parts of country when bypasses are introduced it helps the village/town. Ie less traffic jams which leads to people having easier access businesses in the village.

For example, has Castleisland suffered since the by pass was introduced?

marno21

tubbs26 wrote: »

Travel this road regularly and a bypass would be great.

I see the local politician is arguing against it on the basis the town will suffer because of less traffic passing through.

Has it no been shown in other parts of country when bypasses are introduced it helps the village/town. Ie less traffic jams which leads to people having easier access businesses in the village.

For example, has Castleisland suffered since the by pass was introduced?

The one difference here is that Milltown isn't renowned for jams

But with the new road to Killorglin, realigning the N70 around Milltown would be worthwhile, especially the steep narrow approach from the Killorglin aide

tubbs26

marno21 wrote: »

The one difference here is that Milltown isn't renowned for jams

But with the new road to Killorglin, realigning the N70 around Milltown would be worthwhile, especially the steep narrow approach from the Killorglin aide

Fair poiint

Fr Tod Umptious

marno21 wrote: »

The one difference here is that Milltown isn't renowned for jams

But with the new road to Killorglin, realigning the N70 around Milltown would be worthwhile, especially the steep narrow approach from the Killorglin aide

Yes there is a big difference between Milltown and Castleisland.

There is nothing like the volume going through Milltown that was going through Castleisland.

And has anyone stats on how well business is in Castleisland post the bypass ?

I can't understand how anyone is suprised that a local politician is expressing concerns of local businesses over a proposed by pass.

The few shops (Spar, Burke's, fruit and veg shop and the chemists) in Milltown that are on Bridge St , the "Killorglin" side of the town, rely on passing trade, and there is street and off street parking available.

A bypass will seriously affect them.

ongarboy

I never can get this objection either to bypasses. Towns and villages are far more pedestrian friendly and safer and the streets are no longer choked with exhaust fumes. I've driven thru Adare about 500 times and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've stopped there. Motorists going from A to C want to get their asap. They're not going to stop in gridlocked B to do some shopping so these local trader concerns are unfounded!

Saying that, I don't recall Milltown as a notorious bottleneck so I wonder why a bypass is that justified here.

cjpm

God huge credit must go to Kerry Co Co for all the work that they get done. Really put Cork Co Co to shame.

A list of all the road projects completed by both in the last 10 years would make for depressing reading for Corkonians......

At the moment Kerry Co Co are widening a 3 span river bridge on the N72 close to Rathmore. The Barraduff bridge has previously been widened and road realigned. I can't remember the last time I've seen Cork Co Co widen a bridge on the N72 between Mallow and the county bounds

marno21

cjpm wrote: »

God huge credit must go to Kerry Co Co for all the work that they get done. Really put Cork Co Co to shame.

A list of all the road projects completed by both in the last 10 years would make for depressing reading for Corkonians......

At the moment Kerry Co Co are widening a 3 span river bridge on the N72 close to Rathmore. The Barraduff bridge has previously been widened and road realigned. I can't remember the last time I've seen Cork Co Co widen a bridge on the N72 between Mallow and the county bounds

Exactly this. In the 90s/00s, Killarney-Cork border, Tralee-Castleisland-Limerick border, Farranfore-Tralee were all heavily upgraded. Since then, during the quietest period of roadbuilding in Ireland's modern history, they have bypassed Castleisland and Tralee, completed realignments on the national secondary network, relief roads in Dingle and Kenmare, Listowel bypass about to start, N70 Kilderry underway and realignments planned on the N70 and N72. The N86 Tralee-Dingle scheme has 8km built and 8km to start within the next two years.

Lots of counties out there that could take a leaf out of their book.

Back to the topic at hand, I hope this goes ahead. Trucks going from Killorglin/Cahirciveen to Tralee/Foynes/Dublin etc should not have to pass through Milltown. There are journey time benefits and importantly a large safety dividend.

marno21

Route to be published in the coming days.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/route-proposed-mid-kerry-bypass-revealed-coming-days/

marno21

Route published Friday February 5th at 2pm.

According to Radio Kerry (https://www.radiokerry.ie/route-major-kerry-bypass-published-next-week/), this will be 1.6km in length.

Looking at the route options below, the green route is 1km and the pink route is ~1.7km, so I'd imagine it will be along the lines of the pink route.

http://docstore.kerrycoco.ie/KCCWebsite/roads/milltownmap.pdf

marno21

Plans to oppose the bypass by a local alliance.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/plan-oppose-proposed-bypass-milltown/

Pete_Cavan

marno21 wrote: »

Plans to oppose the bypass by a local alliance.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/plan-oppose-proposed-bypass-milltown/

It should be considered a sport at this stage.

Fr Tod Umptious

Traffic going through Milltown has dwindled since COVID.

There was a large volume of traffic going through Milltown to and from Killorglin and it's two major employers Fexco and Astelas.

But with COVID that has changed, most of Fexco's staff are now WFH and they will never return to the office 5 days a week. Not sure about Astelas.

Pre COVID the only time there was a tailback in Milltown was during the school runs and to a lesser extent after 5 in the evening.

When the schools were back September to December the tailbacks were almost non existent.

I don't really see the value in a bypass for Milltown, the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Like in Killorglin for example, it's a bigger town, has more roads leading into it and has more potential bottlenecks.
But the problem with that is it has a river that needs to be crossed, which balloons the price.

I remember when the Tralee bypass came along in 2013, it looked great on paper, but it was mainly on a north/south axis, with no east/west element to it.
Now it just looks like a whole lot of wasted engineering, yes it has it's benefits, but traffic to the Dingle peninsula still has to take the old route it did pre bypass.

easypeasy36

This bypass has taken everyone by surprise. It is not needed and a complete waste of money. Killorglin is a bottleneck at the best of times and yet here they are wanting to spend 7 million on a 1.6km that will destroy farmland and private properties. They compared Milltown to Castleisland today in the webinar and said that Milltown could prosper like Castleisland. Milltown does not have supermarkets, a bank or boutiques that would bring people into the village. We are too small a place to be bypassed. The traffic problem is on the killarney side of the town and that should be looked at again.

Mrs Dempsey

easypeasy36 wrote: »

This bypass has taken everyone by surprise. It is not needed and a complete waste of money. Killorglin is a bottleneck at the best of times and yet here they are wanting to spend 7 million on a 1.6km that will destroy farmland and private properties. They compared Milltown to Castleisland today in the webinar and said that Milltown could prosper like Castleisland. Milltown does not have supermarkets, a bank or boutiques that would bring people into the village. We are too small a place to be bypassed. The traffic problem is on the killarney side of the town and that should be looked at again.

Welcome on board - an interesting first post.
I'm based in Tralee & this bypass proposal has not taken me by surprise.
As you state the traffic issue is on the Killarney side - I regularly experience it.
The issue is yielding to the Tralee Killorglin flow with limited sight lines in the centre of Milltown.
Would taking that traffic "out of town" & reassigning priority to the Killarney traffic not sort the issue?
Given the professed lack of supermarkets, banks or boutiques, the loss of business to out of town traffic does not stand up - in fairness you have not made that case.
The case you do state is looking again at the Killarney traffic - would you care to elaborate on how this might be done - with specific emphasis on not "destroying" farmland & private properties?

I'm not from Kerry and don't know the road in question. From a national interest perspective, I don't see how this proposal trumps the infamous bottlenecks of Thurles, Killeagh, Ballina, Ballinrobe, Birr, Charleville etc, notwithstanding some of these towns will be bypassed in the coming years, but others such as Thurles have been completely mothballed. I'm not saying it's not needed, but it's a rather odd proposal in the overall scale of priorities both nationally and locally. I would have thought a North to South bypass of Killarney or removing some of the hairpin bends on the N70 and N71 would be more useful than this.

Quackster

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

I'm not from Kerry and don't know the road in question. From a national interest perspective, I don't see how this proposal trumps the infamous bottlenecks of Thurles, Killeagh, Ballina, Ballinrobe, Birr, Charleville etc, notwithstanding some of these towns will be bypassed in the coming years, but others such as Thurles have been completely mothballed. I'm not saying it's not needed, but it's a rather odd proposal in the overall scale of priorities both nationally and locally. I would have thought a North to South bypass of Killarney or removing some of the hairpin bends on the N70 and N71 would be more useful than this.

TII likes to have a portfolio of shovel-ready projects across a cost spectrum to hand so that whatever capital budget is available to them in a given year, they will have suitable project(s) to progress. This is why this is progressing through the planning process right now. There is no commitment to commence construction on it on any specific date.

This project, in terms of cost, comes in at the lowest level and is in no way comparable to potential bypasses of other mentioned towns, including Killorglin.

marno21

Milltown is dominated by two traffic flows, N/S from the N70 at Castlemaine to the N70 at Killorglin, and E/W from the R561 at Castlemaine onto the Dingle Peninsula to the R563 towards Killarney/Cork. This bypass removes one of those flows from the town (N70 -> N70) which removes through Dublin/Limerick/Tralee-Iveragh/Killorglin traffic from the town including heavy vehicles. The town retains the E/W Dingle/West Kerry-Cork/Killarney traffic.

There was a realignment completed in 2019 south of Milltown which removed 3.5km of absolute dirt road and replaced it with a functional single carriageway which is suitable for the traffic it carries. The same applies here, this scheme is 1.6km, it removes the steep approach to the town from the south, the town itself which is quite tricky for heavy vehicles to manoeuvre and it also removes a tricky bend north of Milltown which would be difficult to remove with a smaller job due to the route of the N70 in this area.

For the benefits of this project and the cost of it, it's an absolute no brainer.

Pete_Cavan

It is also worth noting that bypasses are not exclusively for the benefit of the residents of the bypassed town (although they do benefit). It is for the benefit of anyone travelling through the town on their way to anywhere else, and exponentially beneficial for cyclists where such facilities are provided.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40223576.html

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/milltown-is-collateral-damage-in-bypass-plan-40072235.html

Negative coverage in the press.

“Our role is to help Milltown to develop as a liveable, viable town,” Mr Stephens said.

That doesn't tally with objections to removing heavy vehicles from the town.

ABP in autumn 2021.

marno21

Also, preferred route:

https://twitter.com/countykerry/status/1359852907697430530/photo/1

1.67km of Type 2 SC, segregated walking/cycling track, one road underbridge, one stream bridge and one roundabout.

Fr Tod Umptious

As a resident of Milltown I'm really neither for nor against this bypass.

I can absolutely see how the businesses that rely on passing traffic would be adversely affected, but equally it would be one less village to twist through for HGVs going further south.

I do hope they include the segregated walking/cycling track this time.

That was also promised in N70 Kilderry scheme that was completed a few years ago and never included.

Mrs Dempsey

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

.....
I do hope they include the segregated walking/cycling track this time.

That was also promised in N70 Kilderry scheme that was completed a few years ago and never included.

Is the old road the effective walking / cycling route?

KrisW1001

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As a resident of Milltown I'm really neither for nor against this bypass.

I can absolutely see how the businesses that rely on passing traffic would be adversely affected, but equally it would be one less village to twist through for HGVs going further south.

I do hope they include the segregated walking/cycling track this time.

That was also promised in N70 Kilderry scheme that was completed a few years ago and never included.

For what it's worth, the design standard for a Type 2 Single Carriageway requires that there be a dedicated cycle and/or pedestrian path, separated from the vehicle road.

This can be done as one cycleway and one pedestrian way, or a combined, wider, path for both if space is restricted (or in remote areas where there's not expected to be many cyclists/pedestrians using the path), but whatever it is, there has to be a separate way for non-motorised traffic to use.

The final drawings for the scheme will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála, and will form the basis of the planning permission grant. If there's a cycleway on these final plans, it will have to be built.

Pete_Cavan

They sound like something from Fr Ted, the existing road through the town wont be taken in and never put out again! People who want to stop in the town will still be able to do so, it would actually become more attractive to do so when not competing with lots of traffic which doesn't want to be there. Forcing people with no intention of stopping in to go through it is more likely to put locals off going into the town at certain times of the day.

marno21

I go through Milltown on the N70 and the R561/R563. I often stop when using the R563 (which will be the same post bypass) but I never stop going N/S on the N70.

There's plenty of reason to stop in Killorglin 5km down the road when heading north/south, or in Farranfore/Tralee depending on where you're coming from/going to. If you're heading east west there's less places to stop, which is business Milltown will retain.

This bypass route is a nice halfway house for the town. Remove heavy vehicles, still retain traffic movements but remove the ones causing conflict.

KrisW1001

This is an old, old argument against bypasses, but every time a town is bypassed, trade ends up increasing. The objectors are not counting the hundreds and thousands of potential customers who would have stopped, but were deterred from doing so by the heavy traffic through the town (which makes it really hard to hunt for a parking spot).

I can just about remember Naas before the motorway completely bypassed it. People were up in arms about that road too, claiming that it would kill the town's businesses. I think it's fair to say they were wrong.

Fr Tod Umptious

KrisW1001 wrote: »

This is an old, old argument against bypasses, but every time a town is bypassed, trade ends up increasing. The objectors are not counting the hundreds and thousands of potential customers who would have stopped, but were deterred from doing so by the heavy traffic through the town (which makes it really hard to hunt for a parking spot).

I can just about remember Naas before the motorway completely bypassed it. People were up in arms about that road too, claiming that it would kill the town's businesses. I think it's fair to say they were wrong.

People really have to have a look at Milltown on the map and see the size of it.
It's tiny.
Comparing to Casleisland is incorrect, comparing it to Naas even more so.

It's two streets.

It has a tail back between 8.45am and 9am when people from the south turning right up to the schools have to yeild at Larkin's to traffic going to Killorglin.

I'm not sure if that will even exist when school gets back because most of those going to Killorglin are now working from home.

Another poster suggested that local people would be more likely to go into the town because if less traffic of there was a bypass.

That's not the case, traffic congestion was never a reason not to go into the town because other than the example I gave the place was never congested.

A bypass is not going to bring people into the town who would otherwise avoid it, because in all honesty there is nothing to come in for anyway.

I don't even know why I'm calling it a town, its a village.

KrisW1001

I know the place, and I agree with you. I think the only reason people stop there now is that they need fuel, coffee, something to eat or a pee. The bypass road won't change those factors. A big brown sign at the new roundabouts either side of the village saying there's food and drink available is really all that's needed to keep the passing trade, and getting the through traffic out of the main street will make it easier for people who want to stop to actually stop.

There's never much of a tailback in these small places, but like every other built-up area on the Wild Atlantic Way, in Summer you do get really long platoons of cars that make it hard to cross the main road - you only need one foreign tourist who's uncomfortable making right turns to block traffic for minutes at a time.

marno21

• Investigative surveys (Traffic, Ecology, Topographical and Ground Investigations) have been undertaken.

• Archaeo-Geophyscial Surveys have uncovered an unchartered archaeological feature and subsequent surveys of this feature were recently undertaken to confirm its significance.

• The Project Team has developed a number of alternative route options and alignments which avoid / minimise the impact on this Henge-like feature and these are being appraised at present by our consultants RPS.

• Consultation on the new preferred solution for the mainline alignment will be undertaken with relevant stakeholders upon completion of this appraisal in Q4 2023.

• The Design which will be developed through Q4 2023 with a view to commencing the Statutory Consent process in early 2024 subject to the necessary approvals. 

embraer170

Not much new on the Milltown bypass scheme these days.

Traffic in Killorglin is getting worse every summer. These days at the wrong time of day it can take 15-20 minutes to get from the Astellas Plant to SuperValu, but I suppose that cannot be fixed without a big bypass and new Laune bridge. Probably not in my lifetime.