How in the name of Jesus can we get a mortgage?

One More Toy

Hello

Just looking for someone with more experience's input here

Myself and OH work in Dublin City and are well domiciled here, and would love to buy our own place, ideally a 2 bed flat

Our deposit wouldnt be a problem on such a flat (at least 10%) but when it comes to salary rules of 3.5 times salary (combined gross near €75,000) we are screwed

Are we silly to think we could remain in Dublin? Should we look further afield?

GingerLily

You may qualify for an exemption - up to 5 times your income but I think they generally offer nearer the 4 times multiple.

If you could get 4 times that would give you a budget of 330, I think you'll have to look further out then the city centre, but you definitely have options.

TheAnalyst_

Emigrate.

One More Toy

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Emigrate.

We are happy here, dublin is our home. But i respect that sentiment

TheAnalyst_

One More Toy wrote: »

We are happy here, dublin is our home. But i respect that sentiment

You need to anticipate trouble ahead. Will you be happy when you are barely getting by with low wages and high rents?

One More Toy

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You need to anticipate trouble ahead. Will you be happy when you are barely getting by with low wages and high rents?

Her job is public service and is stable; mine not so much.

We are living like paupers already for topping up the downpayment and paying high-ish rents as it is. Yes we are f**** miserable

mloc123

GingerLily wrote: »

You may qualify for an exemption - up to 5 times your income but I think they generally offer nearer the 4 times multiple.

If you could get 4 times that would give you a budget of 330, I think you'll have to look further out then the city centre, but you definitely have options.

Realisticaly they will now qualify for an exception with that combined income.

shivermetimber

There's 251 2 bed apartments under 250k in Dublin at the moment. Not saying that that's a lot but it's certainly not a little.

GingerLily

mloc123 wrote: »

Realisticaly they will now qualify for an exception with that combined income.

Can you explain?

ArthurG

shivermetimber wrote: »

There's 251 bed apartments under 250k in Dublin at the moment. Not saying that that's a lot but it's certainly not a little.

They only want 2 beds though....

Franz Von Peppercorn

ArthurG wrote: »

They only want 2 beds though....

Some are 2 beds. I see an apartment in howth for 300k

punisher5112

Look up council mortgage loan..

You will only need 3% deposit if approved.

stateofflux

shivermetimber wrote: »

There's 251 bed apartments under 250k in Dublin at the moment.

yes but where? . 'dublin' is a sprawl running the whole gamut from nice area to complete kip. with commutes to centre ranging from 2 minutes to 2 hours . depending on location.

shivermetimber

ArthurG wrote: »

They only want 2 beds though....

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Some are 2 beds. I see an apartment in howth for 300k

Sorry, typo. That was meant to say 251 2 beds

One More Toy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Look up council mortgage loan..

You will only need 3% deposit if approved.

Think theres a 330k or so limit for that and you need to be rejected a couple of times but i will have to look into it now

punisher5112

One More Toy wrote: »

Think theres a 330k or so limit for that and you need to be rejected a couple of times but i will have to look into it now

It was already there before the new things they came up with recently.

I would suggest against a apartment as if you have kids or plan on them it won't be ideal and most we have here have terrible sound proofing.

mloc123

GingerLily wrote: »

Can you explain?

For the most part LTI exceptions are being given out the higher earners or people in jobs that are likely to see large pay increases. I think it would be pretty difficult to get one on a joint application worth each person on about 35k each.

SNNUS

One More Toy wrote: »

Think theres a 330k or so limit for that and you need to be rejected a couple of times but i will have to look into it now

10% deposit needed.

Heres Johnny

75k x 3.5 is 262.5k

Add your deposit of 10% onto that and 300k is your realistic budget

On daft there are over 1000 properties in the Dublin area asking less than 300k with at least 2 bedrooms

400 are even 3 beds

Yes, some are undesirable and others need work but surely something in there would suit you?

GingerLily

Rotten12 wrote: »

Don't settle Dublin city, it's seriously just getting worse. It's a hell hole.

Where in Dublin do you live?

mloc123

Heres Johnny wrote: »

75k x 3.5 is 262.5k

Add your deposit of 10% onto that and 300k is your realistic budget

On daft there are over 1000 properties in the Dublin area asking less than 300k with at least 2 bedrooms

400 are even 3 beds

Yes, some are undesirable and others need work but surely something in there would suit you?

Asking price != Selling price tho

andekwarhola

Bit confused here.

A joint income of 75k is 262k approval in principle. You could get that up to nearly 300 with around 12 or 13% deposit which you imply is possible.

Daft throws up quite a few 2 bed apartments in that range. The first search page seems to show places like Islamdbridge, Phibsborough, Sandyford, Ashtown and Lucan which are fine.

Think a lot of people in here, not you necessarily, when talking about lack of affordibility sometimes mean the place they really really want or balking at a commute rather than what they can afford which is tough but something you just have to deal with.

Wesser

andekwarhola wrote: »

Bit confused here.

A joint income of 75k is 262k approval in principle. You could get that up to nearly 300 with around 12 or 13% deposit which you imply is possible.

Daft throws up quite a few 2 bed apartments in that range. The first search page seems to show places like Islamdbridge, Phibsborough, Sandyford, Ashtown and Lucan which are fine.

Think a lot of people in here, not you necessarily, when talking about lack of affordibility sometimes mean the place they really really want or balking at a commute rather than what they can afford which is tough but something you just have to deal with.

Totally agree. We all have to compromise.

Cash_Q

OP my husband and I have a lower combined income and are about to close on a 3 Bed terraced house in a nice part* of Tallaght with 10% deposit.

There are compromises to be made by everyone buying, of course we'd love to have bought in Terenure but that was never going to happen.

* yes there are nice parts of Tallaght, I grew up there and have lived in Tallaght again for the past 6 years. Most areas have their downsides but the bus from Tallaght to town is approx 30 mins with bus lanes most of the way. Lots of apartments for sale in Tallaght for your budget. Lots of amenities and facilities here too. Lots of suburbs have just as much to offer. Don't limit yourself to city centre just because you live there now.

Kintarō Hattori

Hey OP,

My partner and I lived for many many years in the city centre. When it came time to buy we looked at what was available to us in the city centre and what we'd get further out. We ended up in Balbriggan as we got a lovely house with a mortgage that has a modest monthly repayment.
Now we're quite far out but that was fine, we don't mind the commute. Everyone wants different things but benefits for us were a bigger place than the city, lovely countryside around, great transportation links. Being out of the city I also learned how to drive- something I might never have done had I stayed in the city centre.

April 73

Look at Dublin 15. Plenty of nice 2 beds there in budget with a reasonably decent train service & lots of bus routes. New Luas stop at the train station in Broombridge on the line from D15 to get across town too.
It’s just not accurate to say you can’t live in Dublin with a €300k budget.

Frilly Knickers

Commutes are fine pre-kids, but post kids it can mean leaving them in crèche for 10 hours a day, or a significant journey in the event you need to get back in an emergency. My in laws are in monasterevin and often sell the '45 minute train journey to dublin' as if it takes 45 minutes total - in reality, door to door including car, train and luas it's closer to 2 hours total from their house to my city centre office. There's a reason commuter towns have high divorce rates, its not a nice life post children

GingerLily

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

Commutes are fine pre-kids, but post kids it can mean leaving them in crèche for 10 hours a day, or a significant journey in the event you need to get back in an emergency. My in laws are in monasterevin and often sell the '45 minute train journey to dublin' as if it takes 45 minutes total - in reality, door to door including car, train and luas it's closer to 2 hours total from their house to my city centre office. There's a reason commuter towns have high divorce rates, its not a nice life post children

The poster above you suggested boombridge, a good bit nearer then monasterevin. There's definitely a middle ground between Dublin CC and Kildare!!

andekwarhola

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

Commutes are fine pre-kids, but post kids it can mean leaving them in crèche for 10 hours a day, or a significant journey in the event you need to get back in an emergency. My in laws are in monasterevin and often sell the '45 minute train journey to dublin' as if it takes 45 minutes total - in reality, door to door including car, train and luas it's closer to 2 hours total from their house to my city centre office. There's a reason commuter towns have high divorce rates, its not a nice life post children

The market just got wind of these factoids and has promptly collapsed, meaning houses in D6 are now 50k. Sorted.

myshirt

Move to Cork or to Limerick, you get a Dublin salary in Cork and a Dublin salary in some sectors in Limerick.

You'd get a large 3 bed semi detached within touching distance of a large university and the hospital for 300k in Limerick.

And for Cork, you'd get your 2 bed apartment or a 3 bed terraced within commutable distance of Cork for 300k.

Dublin is getting to that point that if you are not already on the ladder, be it yourself, or your parents, it's hard to get a break. Quality of life may be better in Limerick or Cork for you.

BorneTobyWilde

Will have to use your own name. No idea how in the name of Jesus you can get a mortgage.

blondeonblonde

What areas have you been looking at OP? I have to agree with some of the other posters, your budget puts you well within reach of a 2 bed apartment in many nice areas of Dublin.

Of course the 3.5 times rule isn't necessarily how much you will actually get once you approach the bank.

Did you get approval in principle from the bank?

Klonker

There are a load of 2 and 3 beds in Dublin within your budget, just not the expensive areas you want to live in. Well I'm sorry you just can't afford them, that's just how it is.

Just as an example I bought a 3 bed
apartment for 280k this year in what I'd call a decent area and a not to bad commute (door to door in less than 1 hour, door to city centre 35 min).

utmbuilder

Join a gang and move to finglas great bargains

Captain Flaps

mloc123 wrote: »

Realisticaly they will now qualify for an exception with that combined income.

I just did and our combined income isn't a million miles off. 4.5x exemption rate, got the word Friday morning.

Also OP, for 330 you'd get a decent 2 bed gaff in a not terrible part of the greater walkinstown/crumlin/kimmage area, we viewed quite a few around there and saw plenty we'd be happy with - and my partner refers to me as a 'south dublin snob', so we weren't looking at hovels either

Mrs OBumble

If you're only earning 75k between you then i don't think you are earning enough to take on a mortgage outside the 3.5 rule.

Because .... you won't be able to cope with repayments on only one income if one loses their jobor gets sick.

Look further out.

mloc123

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I just did and our combined income isn't a million miles off. 4.5x exemption rate, got the word Friday morning.

Also OP, for 330 you'd get a decent 2 bed gaff in a not terrible part of the greater walkinstown/crumlin/kimmage area, we viewed quite a few around there and saw plenty we'd be happy with - and my partner refers to me as a 'south dublin snob', so we weren't looking at hovels either

I am surprised by that... but all cases vary. Maybe you have good potential to see income improve in the short term or have a strong savings record etc.. the general rule is that you need to be a higher earner to get LTI exception.

mloc123

mloc123 wrote: »

I am surprised by that... but all cases vary. Maybe you have good potential to see income improve in the short term or have a strong savings record etc.. the general rule is that you need to be a higher earner to get LTI exception.

The op said that one of them has a public service job. This will be 100% secure and will have salary increases set out in advance. Banks also like people with very secure jobs as in the ops case they know that at least one of the couple wont ever need to worry about losing a job so in these instances I would not be surprised to see some exemptions given too.

myshirt

mloc123 wrote: »

I am surprised by that... but all cases vary. Maybe you have good potential to see income improve in the short term or have a strong savings record etc.. the general rule is that you need to be a higher earner to get LTI exception.

I'm very, very surprised by it also.

Are we moving the dial more towards poor lending decisions? Perhaps, but we don't have enough info here to be fair.

For me, the starting point would be 100k of a combined income, or 80k of a combined income with a 20% deposit. Something less than that doesn't taste right. We've moved on a bit from less than two years ago when KBC said they wouldn't give an exemption to anyone, regardless of the circumstances!

zig

One More Toy wrote: »

We are happy here, dublin is our home.

We are living like paupers already for topping up the downpayment and paying high-ish rents as it is. Yes we are f**** miserable

I think you gotta decide which is more important. People move out of necessity and well being. Ireland is a small country, you could go to Dublin every week from anywhere in the country if you really wanted.

Captain Flaps

mloc123 wrote: »

I am surprised by that... but all cases vary. Maybe you have good potential to see income improve in the short term or have a strong savings record etc.. the general rule is that you need to be a higher earner to get LTI exception.

We went with a broker who said based on our salaries and industries (I'm in marketing, she's in pharmaceutical sciences) we were a good prospect. We've been renting 5 years and had the deposit in cash split between savings and a small amount from inheritance (this helped but wasn't the deciding factor). We also had no existing debts (cheap cars both paid off, credit card paid off each month etc. We were in a strong enough position but even at that with the 4.5x salary our mortgage will only be 100 more a month than we paid in rent (obviously other factors will add to this but in general it's manageable).

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

I'm very, very surprised by it also.

Are we moving the dial more towards poor lending decisions? Perhaps, but we don't have enough info here to be fair.

For me, the starting point would be 100k of a combined income, or 80k of a combined income with a 20% deposit. Something less than that doesn't taste right. We've moved on a bit from less than two years ago when KBC said they wouldn't give an exemption to anyone, regardless of the circumstances!

Tbh I dont see why there should be minimum salary limits to get an exemption. The higher the salary the higher you will be approved for so an exemption will result in the borrower getting comparatively more than a couple on a smaller combined income getting an exemption. In other words the higher earner earns more but they will borrow much more too especially if getting an exemption while a lower earner earns less but they will borrow less even with an exemption.

Basically my point is that I dont automatically see it as being more risky giving a lower earner an exemption than a higher earner. Things like job secituty, potential for future earning increases, type of industry the person is in etc would more important imo.

For example a teacher and nurse on 40k and 35k respectivaley, 100% secure jobs, guaranteed salary increases every year, fully paid maternity leave, excellent sick pay etc would be far better candidates for an exemption than a couple who are IT contractors earning 70k each.

Tar.Aldarion

mloc123 wrote: »

I am surprised by that... but all cases vary. Maybe you have good potential to see income improve in the short term or have a strong savings record etc.. the general rule is that you need to be a higher earner to get LTI exception.

Anybody have experience with this buying on their own, what kind of salary would you need to have for an exemption? I suppose it depends on industry and increases, for example I'm a software engineer.

ligerdub

Looking at some comments here I'm really wondering how we've accepted such misery as part of what we expect our lives to be.

The OP is a great example of what the average is. These are a couple looking to setup some sort of family life and are very much living on what the average income is for a 2 person household.

So far we've had plenty of comments like: "there are plenty of places to buy within your budget" or "you can buy here and do it up", I'm sorry does money just grow on trees? "You're just going to have to compromise, either buy a shoebox totally unsuitable to family life or live about 50 miles away, what's the problem?" This sort of blunt attitude where we are supposed to think this isn't a suitable complaint is not suitable to a decent society. It's basically saying, well I'm alright so I don't care about you. The fact is that these conditions are not acceptable for people trying to get on with their lives, and is a one-way street to a nation of miserable people, spending all their time coming and going to work or literally being unable to have another child because they simply can't afford it, and I'm not talking 5 or 6 kids I'm talking 2, maybe 3.

This is a couple too, what could an applicant do if they were a single person? The OP has never stated that he/she wanted to buy a luxurious megahome for themselves, more so that they thought they could expect to be able to afford somewhere where they could setup a home suitable to starting a reasonably sized family and live reasonably close to the city and/or places of employment opportunities. I mean correct me if I'm wrong for assuming this wish to be you know.......pretty normal.

Maybe if we spent more time in stopping pretending that this situation is ok and the OP has no real complaint we would all be a bit better off, and it would force the guys supposedly running this country to treat it with a bit more importance.

zig

ligerdub wrote: »

Looking at some comments here I'm really wondering how we've accepted such misery as part of what we expect our lives to be.

The OP is a great example of what the average is. These are a couple looking to setup some sort of family life and are very much living on what the average income is for a 2 person household.

So far we've had plenty of comments like: "there are plenty of places to buy within your budget" or "you can buy here and do it up", I'm sorry does money just grow on trees? "You're just going to have to compromise, either buy a shoebox totally unsuitable to family life or live about 50 miles away, what's the problem?" This sort of blunt attitude where we are supposed to think this isn't a suitable complaint is not suitable to a decent society. It's basically saying, well I'm alright so I don't care about you. The fact is that these conditions are not acceptable for people trying to get on with their lives, and is a one-way street to a nation of miserable people, spending all their time coming and going to work or literally being unable to have another child because they simply can't afford it, and I'm not talking 5 or 6 kids I'm talking 2, maybe 3.

This is a couple too, what could an applicant do if they were a single person? The OP has never stated that he/she wanted to buy a luxurious megahome for themselves, more so that they thought they could expect to be able to afford somewhere where they could setup a home suitable to starting a reasonably sized family and live reasonably close to the city and/or places of employment opportunities. I mean correct me if I'm wrong for assuming this wish to be you know.......pretty normal.

Maybe if we spent more time in stopping pretending that this situation is ok and the OP has no real complaint we would all be a bit better off, and it would force the guys supposedly running this country to treat it with a bit more importance.

Some valid points, but remember a few things...

1. A government can only do so much, before risking a huge backlash, they can influence, but it has to be a balancing act.

2. It was normal and is normal for Irish people and people from all over the world to do what is necessary for a better life. Huge amounts of people leave their families and move countries, others change jobs, others move within a country. Some people move cities just to get a job. Making a suggestion to move 50 or 100 miles out of a city that is now more expensive to live in than London is not an unreasonable suggestion.

My parents had to move around the country with the family to meet needs relating to the job.

As for the other alternative suggestions, they too are things that people do. Back in the 80s people lived in half built half unfurnished houses. Things like carpets would be done while living there. Rooms would be ready as needed. My friends Dad built their family kitchen while they were living in the house.

Our generation just needs a bit of perspective imo.

BarryD2

One More Toy wrote: »

Our deposit wouldnt be a problem on such a flat (at least 10%) but when it comes to salary rules of 3.5 times salary (combined gross near €75,000) we are screwed

The 3.5 times salary rule is there both to protect you from yourself and the taxpayer generally from having to pick up the tab (again) of people who over reach.

The old adage about possession being 9/10ths of the law etc still applies and unfortunately some people like you are screwed whilst others who got in and built up debt are seemingly protected to the hilt almost.

If you can manage living away from Dublin, then costs are more manageable. However other disadvantages apply.

Cyrus

ligerdub wrote: »

Looking at some comments here I'm really wondering how we've accepted such misery as part of what we expect our lives to be.

The OP is a great example of what the average is. These are a couple looking to setup some sort of family life and are very much living on what the average income is for a 2 person household.

So far we've had plenty of comments like: "there are plenty of places to buy within your budget" or "you can buy here and do it up", I'm sorry does money just grow on trees? "You're just going to have to compromise, either buy a shoebox totally unsuitable to family life or live about 50 miles away, what's the problem?" This sort of blunt attitude where we are supposed to think this isn't a suitable complaint is not suitable to a decent society. It's basically saying, well I'm alright so I don't care about you. The fact is that these conditions are not acceptable for people trying to get on with their lives, and is a one-way street to a nation of miserable people, spending all their time coming and going to work or literally being unable to have another child because they simply can't afford it, and I'm not talking 5 or 6 kids I'm talking 2, maybe 3.

This is a couple too, what could an applicant do if they were a single person? The OP has never stated that he/she wanted to buy a luxurious megahome for themselves, more so that they thought they could expect to be able to afford somewhere where they could setup a home suitable to starting a reasonably sized family and live reasonably close to the city and/or places of employment opportunities. I mean correct me if I'm wrong for assuming this wish to be you know.......pretty normal.

Maybe if we spent more time in stopping pretending that this situation is ok and the OP has no real complaint we would all be a bit better off, and it would force the guys supposedly running this country to treat it with a bit more importance.

How many capital cities in europe do you think buying a family home on twice the industrial wage is achievable in ?

i doubt very many. Unfortunately the combined salary of the OP and his/her partner will mean they have to compromise on size or location, i dont think thats unreasonable.

myshirt

Cyrus wrote: »

How many capital cities in europe do you think buying a family home on twice the industrial wage is achievable in ?

i doubt very many. Unfortunately the combined salary of the OP and his/her partner will mean they have to compromise on size or location, i dont think thats unreasonable.

The poster does have a legitimate point though. The answer however is not one that Irish people like, and that is property taxes. LPT to go up, CGT exemption on your PPR to be removed, and CAT relief to go. We need transactions in the market and to ensure housing policy drives housing resource to where it is best used.

It's baby boomers that are mostly the issue. They are locking out competent people that a good market would drive close to the jobs, and they are replacing them with their children, who may or may not be the best use of that housing.

Bananaleaf

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Emigrate.

I'm shocked that this reply got so many likes.

It's remarkable how one can work hard, pay their way etc yet the 'most obvious' solution to their predicament is, essentially, get out of the country.

If we keep sending all our tax payers abroad, life is going to get a lot more uncomfortable for some 'customers' :rolleyes:

LirW

ligerdub wrote: »

So far we've had plenty of comments like: "there are plenty of places to buy within your budget" or "you can buy here and do it up", I'm sorry does money just grow on trees? "You're just going to have to compromise, either buy a shoebox totally unsuitable to family life or live about 50 miles away, what's the problem?" This sort of blunt attitude where we are supposed to think this isn't a suitable complaint is not suitable to a decent society. It's basically saying, well I'm alright so I don't care about you. The fact is that these conditions are not acceptable for people trying to get on with their lives, and is a one-way street to a nation of miserable people, spending all their time coming and going to work or literally being unable to have another child because they simply can't afford it, and I'm not talking 5 or 6 kids I'm talking 2, maybe 3.

I'm pretty much on board with that.
We had to move out, couldn't afford the city or close to it, himself does a long commute because we depend on his salary.
No jobs anywhere around in his field, beside from hospitality and trades there aren't many jobs in general.
There are plenty of people like us who can't afford the city, nobody would rent to us because kids and they all get pushed further out.
So your wallet pretty much dictates where you live and I appreciate that it does in general but I don't think it's a solution to push the low income crowd or families out of urban areas because, well, tough luck.

The OP has a good point, while they have a decent enough budget for what they want, the situation and questions are similar for lots of couples or families that could "only" borrow the guts of 200 grand or even less. While this is a sh1tload of money it doesn't qualify you to live anywhere close to your work (and I'm sorry but if you have a family there's next to nothing in this bracket where you wanna live with a family long term in Dublin). Pair that with exquisite Irish transport and you have a perfect recipe for a happy society.

Get rich or die tryin' I guess.

Cyrus

myshirt wrote: »

The poster does have a legitimate point though. The answer however is not one that Irish people like, and that is property taxes. LPT to go up, CGT exemption on your PPR to be removed, and CAT relief to go. We need transactions in the market and to ensure housing policy drives housing resource to where it is best used.

It's baby boomers that are mostly the issue. They are locking out competent people that a good market would drive close to the jobs, and they are replacing them with their children, who may or may not be the best use of that housing.

i disagree, everyone wants a semi d in a nice part of dublin, thats not achievable for everyone, further taxing people who have already paid a fortune in tax is not the answer either.

nor is a relaxing of the lending rules.