Dept of Sport Funding

spyderski

I'd be interested to know whether all the people on here who vociferously defended the Islandeady sports grant are also happy with the latest funding round?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-school-in-sports-ministers-constituency-awarded-150k-grant-after-appeal-36696989.html

I'm not interested in the School, the Hockey club, or Shane Ross. I am merely asking those who were so quick to defend the integrity of the grant funding process in relation to Isleandeady CC if their faith had wavered in the face of further controversy over political influence in the grant process.

1bryan

is there anywhere to see a full list of all the projects that got funding? All the talk seems to be about the wesley college grant, which is ridiculous, but hardly surprising with Shane Ross as minister. He pulled a stroke to get his garda station reopened ahead of other areas that needed a garda station more. And now this, in his back garden.

But it's hard to judge without seeing the full list.

plodder

Not sure what relevance this has to cycling, but I'm all for sports grants for facilities that get used and it sounds like this one will be used by the school during the day and the hockey club in the evenings. So, it seems like a good use of public funds to me. Politicians will claim credit for anything whether they had a role or not. You'd probably have to see all the information relating to the appeal as to whether anything fishy went on, but maybe the appeal was allowed after they produced the license agreement. Unlike the twitter mob, I tend to believe people normally do the right thing, unless I see evidence to the contrary.

Eamonnator

And there was me, thinking, I was browsing the Cycling Forum.

zurbfoundation

cycling?

1bryan

cycling is a sport, believe it or not.

I'd love if the thread could be brought back to cycling funding that did or didn't get approved. But we'd need the full list for that.

zurbfoundation

Id say stick it in the hockey thread or the Government Spending thread.

Chips Lovell

Full list of grants is available here and here

spyderski

I would have thought my first post explained why it's in the Cycling forum.

Posts like "If you apply for a grant and don't get it they you either didn't apply correctly or you were not entitled. It will not be because somehow the whole system of grant allocation is skewed in favour of clubs with politicians" were being thrown around this forum, ridiculing my concern regarding the awarding of the Islandeady grant.

I am just wondering if the facts of this particular case have changed people's previously held opinions, where further suspicions are being raised regarding sports grants?

PeterParker957

I think the snobbery from the Solidarity TDs and others is wrong.

Why shouldn't cycling (e.g. as this is that forum) receive funding ? Why must it be assumed kids from working class backgrounds all want to play GAA or box ???

If we get the next Stephen Roche with a few bob in a grant then great.

spyderski

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I think the snobbery from the Solidarity TDs and others is wrong.

Why shouldn't cycling (e.g. as this is that forum) receive funding ? Why must it be assumed kids from working class backgrounds all want to play GAA or box ???

If we get the next Stephen Roche with a few bob in a grant then great.

Not sure what you're referring to. The current controversy is about funding a Hockey pitch?

PeterParker957

spyderski wrote: »

Not sure what you're referring to. The current controversy is about funding a Hockey pitch?

Nothing wrong with that either.

ted1

spyderski wrote: »

I'd be interested to know whether all the people on here who vociferously defended the Islandeady sports grant are also happy with the latest funding round?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-school-in-sports-ministers-constituency-awarded-150k-grant-after-appeal-36696989.html

I’m happy, 1800 grants giving out yet media focusses on one of them.

1bryan

ted1 wrote: »

I’m happy, 1800 grants giving out yet media focusses on one of them.

that was my point. It would be easy to pick any one from the list and find problems with it. Hence needing the full list to view it in it's correct context.

I also wonder if cycling as a sport loses out, due to funding for cycling infrastructure (for commuters) allocated elsewhere.

ted1

1bryan wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

I’m happy, 1800 grants giving out yet media focusses on one of them.

that was my point. It would be easy to pick any one from the list and find problems with it. Hence needing the full list to view it in it's correct context.

I also wonder if cycling as a sport loses out, due to funding for cycling infrastructure (for commuters) allocated elsewhere.

Well it’s for capital expenditure, so unless your buying turbo trainers or building a velodrome then there’s not much Capex that a cycling club could get

It’s like people on the radio giving out that their school doesn’t have sports pitches and didn’t get a grant. Well unless they applied for a grant to buy a pitch then a cap ex grant isn’t relevant.

1bryan

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Full list of grants is available here and here

just had a quick scan through that, paying particular attention to Dublin. While there were cycling and triathlon related grants in Cavan and Clare, I can't see a single one in Dublin. Did any/many apply?

And I'd be from a GAA background originally and fully appreciate the role of the GAA club in a community. But, the disparity between grants given to GAA clubs, and everyone else, is quite stark. There'd be some GAA clubs there (one in particular jumped out) getting a good wad, that would raise my eyebrows as much as any fee-paying school.

1bryan

ted1 wrote: »

Well it’s for capital expenditure, so unless your buying turbo trainers or building a velodrome then there’s not much Capex that a cycling club could get

It’s like people on the radio giving out that their school doesn’t have sports pitches and didn’t get a grant. Well unless they applied for a grant to buy a pitch then a cap ex grant isn’t relevant.

that would explain why there's so few then. Though I did see one for, I think, Youghal Cycling Club, who had 'Develop Youth Section', as the reason listed. So, unless it's to develop a Corkagh Park type facility, I wonder what the plan there is.

Anyway, in general there seems a good spread. You'll never keep everyone happy.

lissard

I find the general discourse on this a bit disheartening - it very quickly descends into bitching and begrudgery. This is public money and it's available to *all* sports. It's up to the individual clubs to make their case and if they miss out this year there is always next year. People routinely give out about he GAA hoovering up most of the funding but this overlooks the fact that they have the highest numbers and are also the most organised when it comes to making applications. My hockey club applied to get our pitch upgraded a couple of years ago - it was in rag order. Constantly flooding and players were picking up injuries from falls on the worn surface. I honestly thought we might end up disappearing as a club if we didn't get it upgraded. We went through the application for the sports capital program twice. The first time we failed as we didn't have all the appropriate costings in place and a proper cost benefit analysis could not be made. The state rightly expects to see that you are on top of your game when handing over taxpayers money. On our second application we had all of this down and could show the exact number of people that would benefit (secondary school, 1 hockey club, 1 soccer club and 1 GAA club). Since the pitch has been relayed it is in use nearly 100% of the time and several hundred people use it each week. It took a serious amount of work to make it happen both in the application and in associated fundraising - you never get 100% of the cost covered.

Felexicon

lissard wrote: »

I find the general discourse on this a bit disheartening - it very quickly descends into bitching and begrudgery. This is public money and it's available to *all* sports. It's up to the individual clubs to make their case and if they miss out this year there is always next year. People routinely give out about he GAA hoovering up most of the funding but this overlooks the fact that they have the highest numbers and are also the most organised when it comes to making applications. My hockey club applied to get our pitch upgraded a couple of years ago - it was in rag order. Constantly flooding and players were picking up injuries from falls on the worn surface. I honestly thought we might end up disappearing as a club if we didn't get it upgraded. We went through the application for the sports capital program twice. The first time we failed as we didn't have all the appropriate costings in place and a proper cost benefit analysis could not be made. The state rightly expects to see that you are on top of your game when handing over taxpayers money. On our second application we had all of this down and could show the exact number of people that would benefit (secondary school, 1 hockey club, 1 soccer club and 1 GAA club). Since the pitch has been relayed it is in use nearly 100% of the time and several hundred people use it each week. It took a serious amount of work to make it happen both in the application and in associated fundraising - you never get 100% of the cost covered.

The grant scheme is not run every year.

While I have no issue with the grants that were given out, when you hear some of the reasons clubs were refused grants it's easier to understand why people are annoyed about it.

One I heard this morning was Nertune BC in Cork being ruled out due to not being from a disadvantaged area. They put in for money to fix the roof of their complex which they open free of charge to local schools for P.E use.

magicbastarder

mod note - no arguing in thread about whether the thread should be left open or not.
@OP, if you want the thread closed please report it or PM a mod. but it simply not going the way you wanted it is probably not going to be considered sufficient to warrant closing it.

several posts have been deleted.

ford2600

spyderski wrote: »

I'd be interested to know whether all the people on here who vociferously defended the Islandeady sports grant are also happy with the latest funding round?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-school-in-sports-ministers-constituency-awarded-150k-grant-after-appeal-36696989.html

What is your point?

You link to an independent article on one award in Shane Ross's constituency?
Have you analysed all the available data and put together something coherent which demonstrates bias/interference in constituencies where ministers sit?

Without that your OP looks like an attempt atsocial media verification of your biased outrage? Which seemed to have been triggered by a single Irish Independent article?

If you think rich/elite sports shouldn't get grants then state that and what you are doing to change it. If Wesley college are anyone else complied with criteria foe getting grant what is your problem?

For the record I think Shane Ross is the ultimate in a hurler on the ditch who has turned out to be wholly incompetent in a ministerial position; that doesn't mean he interfered in the process here on the basis of what you have posted.

Eamonnator

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/03/20/wesley-college-to-spend-taxpayer-money-far-better-than-pleb-schools-would/

Interesting take on this subject. No mention about cycling though.

Borderfox

All I can see is the monopoly that is the GAA

magicbastarder

ford2600 wrote: »

If you think rich/elite sports shouldn't get grants then state that and what you are doing to change it. If Wesley college are anyone else complied with criteria foe getting grant what is your problem?

i'll have to ask my friend for clarification, and it was a difference grant scheme - 'national lottery money - but when the rugby club he was involved in got money, they had to include an all weather soccer pitch in the development - and that should be key; that if money is granted, it should be granted only to an organisation or club where any member of the public can join or avail of the facilities.

i don't know if such a condition was in place for wesley, but if not, that's a very idiotic lapse in policy.

Hurrache

It was covered by Off the Ball today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fatXBYFdaoo

spyderski

ford2600 wrote: »

What is your point?

You link to an independent article on one award in Shane Ross's constituency?
Have you analysed all the available data and put together something coherent which demonstrates bias/interference in constituencies where ministers sit?

Without that your OP looks like an attempt atsocial media verification of your biased outrage? Which seemed to have been triggered by a single Irish Independent article?

If you think rich/elite sports shouldn't get grants then state that and what you are doing to change it. If Wesley college are anyone else complied with criteria foe getting grant what is your problem?

For the record I think Shane Ross is the ultimate in a hurler on the ditch who has turned out to be wholly incompetent in a ministerial position; that doesn't mean he interfered in the process here on the basis of what you have posted.

Wow. You have managed to COMPLETELY miss my point. I have no "biased outrage", in fact I'm ashamed to say I voted for Shane Ross in the past. I'm basing nothing on a "single Irish Independent article" (the issue has gotten widespread coverage over the past few days, for those not paying attention). I'm in no way attempting to highlight this particular award, as this would not be the correct forum to do so.

The point of my original post was to see if the people who were so vociferous on the cycling forum in their defence of the extremely suspicious awarding of grant funding to Islandeady Cycling Club would exhibit the same faith in the awarding of the grant to the private schools' hockey pitch.

joey100

Wesley applied alongside a hockey club, any school applying had to do so in conjunction with a local sports club. I'd say that's how they met the criteria of clubs/public using the development.

I'd guess though that it's hard for cycling clubs to get a grant because of the nature of cycling clubs. Very few with clubhouses and the vast majority of clubs meet at set points for their spins rather than their own premises. Most of the people cycling have their own equipment already, that's how they got involved in the club and is needed to join the club. I helped a local club get a grant on one of the last rounds, it wasn't too bad but I know the requirements have been tightened since then. We got a grant towards turbo trainers, the main issue with these from the clubs point of view was where to store them. We relied on club members to store them for us as we had no owned space to do it, and didn't want to go down the road of renting a specific space for it because of the added cost.

spyderski

joey100 wrote: »

I'd guess though that it's hard for cycling clubs to get a grant because of the nature of cycling clubs.

You'd think.Except for the one that got €35k in the past 12 months....

plodder

I don't see the fundamental difference between a rugby club, or a golf club (which got grants in this round) or Wesley college. They all charge money to join, and have restrictive entrance policies of one kind or another. I can see an argument that the more open the policy the better, which is why associating this application with a regular club might have made it easier to approve. I'd sooner see this grant approved than to a golf club, but that's just me. I accept I'm biased against golf ...

joey100

But isn't this is a different issue? When that cycling club got the grant the issue was that was a grant from the department of health for health services and provision, it never went to sports clubs apart from that one and questions were rightly raised about it and how it was awarded.

This grant was for sports clubs and organisations to apply for. A school together with a sports club applied for the grant and got it ,which they are perfectly entitled to do. I'm not sure it's the same thing. If they had of applied by themselves there would be questions to be answered alright but on the face of it they met the criteria.

plodder

spyderski wrote: »

You'd think.Except for the one that got €35k in the past 12 months....

So, what's your beef with them this time? Last time, it was because Enda Kenny was involved and they applied for a dept of health grant rather than a sports one, neither of which applies this time.