question re bus drivers and regulations

patrickc

I was on a BE bus from Carlow to Dublin and return today.

a couple of observations I have and I'm wondering can anyone tell me the regulations re them?

One driver had earphones in and was listening to music today can they do that?
neither driver wore their seat belt, do they have to?
One driver was on the phone non stop but was using an earpiece, again is that allowed?

I actually thought the driver this morning was going to fall asleep at the wheel, he looked wrecked and had his head in his hands leaning on the wheel a bit.

Stephen15

Not illegal afaik but it is against DB company policy as far I'm aware so I would imagine BE would have a similar policy.

GM228

The only legal requirement is that the driver must wear a seatbelt where fitted (and so must you).

Wishbone Ash

patrickc wrote: »

..One driver had earphones in and was listening to music ...

How do you know that? Were you up close and personal?

Nomis21

I was a bus driver for 40 years.

Shift work can have a bad effect on sleep patterns and cause extreme tiredness.

I worked in the Netherlands where they have a rule that any driver over 40 does not have to do night shift work.

That worked for me.

patrickc

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

How do you know that? Were you up close and personal?

I was sitting in the front row and could hear the music from his ear

bebeman

patrickc wrote: »

I was on a BE bus from Carlow to Dublin and return today.

a couple of observations I have and I'm wondering can anyone tell me the regulations re them?

One driver had earphones in and was listening to music today can they do that?
neither driver wore their seat belt, do they have to?
One driver was on the phone non stop but was using an earpiece, again is that allowed?

Honestly why do you care?

Victor

bebeman wrote: »

Honestly why do you care?

They would prefer that the coach doesn't crash at 100km/h due to a fatigued / distracted / bored driver.

bobbyss

patrickc wrote:

One driver had earphones in and was listening to music today can they do that? neither driver wore their seat belt, do they have to? One driver was on the phone non stop but was using an earpiece, again is that allowed?

Did you ever find out if BE drivers are required to use seatbelts? I understand in other coach services the drivers tell passengers it's a legal requirenent and for them also I would imagine.
Did you contact BE?

tabbey

bobbyss wrote: »

Did you ever find out if BE drivers are required to use seatbelts? I understand in other coach services the drivers tell passengers it's a legal requirenent and for them also I would imagine.

GM228 told you that back in March.

bobbyss

tabbey wrote:

GM228 told you that back in March.

A driver was mentioned but unclear if it was DB or BE driver but I would imagine both. In which case it's inexcusable for a professional driver not to belt up and all the more need to complain

Grandad99

Bus Drivers must wear seat belts, 3 points and a fine if caught not wearing one.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Offences%2017%20April%202016.pdf

Stephen15

Grandad99 wrote: »

Bus Drivers must wear seat belts, 3 points and a fine if caught not wearing one.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Offences%2017%20April%202016.pdf

Do buses ever been pulled over the Guards? I have heard of it happening to private buses but I don't think it happens to DB or BE buses. Are drivers seats on DB or BE city buses buses even fitted with seatbelts?

patrickc

bobbyss wrote: »

Did you ever find out if BE drivers are required to use seatbelts? I understand in other coach services the drivers tell passengers it's a legal requirenent and for them also I would imagine.
Did you contact BE?

No I didn't contact them i just went on the info that was provided here.

GM228

tabbey wrote: »

bobbyss wrote: »

Did you ever find out if BE drivers are required  to use seatbelts? I understand in other coach services the drivers tell passengers it's a legal requirenent and for them also I would imagine.
Did you contact  BE?

GM228 told you that back in March.

bobbyss wrote: »

A driver was mentioned but unclear if it was DB or BE driver but I would imagine both. In which case it's inexcusable for a professional driver not to belt up and all the more need to complain

Let me reiterate what I said...

GM228 wrote: »

The only legal requirement is that the driver must wear a seatbelt where fitted...

GM228 wrote: »

...and so must you

Both driver and passengers must by law use a seat belt where fitted.

The part in bold is important as not all buses are required to be fitted with seat belts, what type of bus must be fitted with them is in accordance to EU type approval law (for vehicle class) and domestic regulation (for busses carrying school children).

Class I and Class II category M buses (buses designed to hold standing passengers) are limited to 65km/h and are not legally required to have seat belts, this includes all (but 1) of the DB fleet and the BE city type buses for example.

Class III category M buses which is any bus designed for seated passengers only and no standing passengers (i.e the BE coach fleet) are required to be fitted with seatbelts under EU type approval regulations.

In other words any bus with a speed of 100 km/h or which carries school children must have seat belts and by law both driver and passenger must wear them.

GM228

Stephen15 wrote: »

Do buses ever been pulled over the Guards? I have heard of it happening to private buses but I don't think it happens to DB or BE buses. Are drivers seats on DB or BE city buses buses even fitted with seatbelts?

There has been a few BE drivers done for lack of seat belt, I personally saw one done on the 126 a few years ago.

DB are exempt as city buses do not require belts (see my previous post).

TheQuietFella

Stephen15 wrote: »

Do buses ever been pulled over the Guards? I have heard of it happening to private buses but I don't think it happens to DB or BE buses. Are drivers seats on DB or BE city buses buses even fitted with seatbelts?

Double Deckers are not fitted with seat belts.

GM228

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Double Deckers are not fitted with seat belts.

Some are, BE LDs and LFs for example as they are 100 km/h and not designed for standing passengers.

DBs AV444 also has seatbelts I believe.

TheQuietFella

GM228 wrote: »

Some are, BE LDs and LFs for example as they are 100 km/h and not designed for standing passengers.

DBs AV444 also has seatbelts I believe.

They are not classed as a DD!

Tickityboo

Stephen15 wrote: »

Do buses ever been pulled over the Guards? I have heard of it happening to private buses but I don't think it happens to DB or BE buses. Are drivers seats on DB or BE city buses buses even fitted with seatbelts?

Yes they are.
I have been breathalysed twice whilst in service.

GM228

TheQuietFella wrote: »

They are not classed as a DD!

They have two levels (decks), they are double deck buses.

There is no such "double deck" classification either, it's more of a commonly used term used the world over and BE do specifically refer to the LDs and LFs as double deckers.

City type double deck buses are Class II buses whilst the LDs and LFs are Class III buses, the classification has nothing to do with single/double deck status, they are both "double deckers".

magentis

GM228 wrote: »

They have two levels (decks), they are double deck buses.

There is no such "double deck" classification either, it's more of a commonly used term used the world over and BE do specifically refer to the LDs and LFs as double deckers.

City type double deck buses are Class II buses whilst the LDs and LFs are Class III buses, the classification has nothing to do with single/double deck status, they are both "double deckers".

BE LD and LF are double deck coaches,not double deck buses.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

magentis wrote: »

BE LD and LF are double deck coaches,not double deck buses.

Yes , and read what the NTA recently said.

They want double deck Buses on routes that are low floor also.

That means a horrible 65kmh on routes and much less comfortable.

If I was using one of these routes regular I'd be against this for passengers.

magentis

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Yes , and read what the NTA recently said.

They want double deck Buses on routes that are low floor also.

That means a horrible 65kmh on routes and much less comfortable.

If I was using one of these routes regular I'd be against this for passengers.

Quite like when a vwd ends up on the NX totally unsuitable.Much harsher ride and less comfortable seats.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

magentis wrote: »

Quite like when a vwd ends up on the NX totally unsuitable.Much harsher ride and less comfortable seats.

That's what the NTA want. There, navan , Wicklow 133, new bridge 126, clans/Robertstown 120/123, Drogheda 101.

Then cork , Brandon 236 , youghal 260

Waterford, tramore 360

I'm all for wheelchair accessible buses but not the city bus / Dublin bus type.

I think all LD and LF type buses should have the 4 seats required removed (these are already low floor) and all drivers should be trained to secure a person into the position (seatbelt)

I don't think city type buses are suitable at all for those type of routes and as mentioned , the city type bus is very uncomfortable on bad roads, rattle a lot, are slow so journey times become longer and also heating and air-conditioning don't work well at all with the door and window design

So cold in winter and hot in summer.

Stephen15

The VWD buses aren't the same as city buses the seats are much higher and are more like coach seats without seatbelts than bus seats. They somewhat like premium bus services in the UK such as Stagecoach Gold etc. They should have the same spec of double decker buses for Cork, Limerick and Galway city services that they do for DB services.

I'm not familiar with loadings at peak times on the routes the OP mentioned but perhaps they are high so so a bus that permits standing may be needed.

It will also be interesting to see what the NTA give GA for the tendered BE routes. Are the NTA removing buses from the BE fleet for GA like they are doing with DB.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Vwds do not have seat belts and are not far off from standard bus seats.

I have seen the same model bus with other companies with leather seats and seat belts with a higher speed of 80kmh. Which means no standing passengers.

I think , go ahead are only getting a city bus fleet. With possibly the exception to edenderry itself only.

There has been no mention of any fleet being removed from bus Eireann , apart from the decommissioning of old fleet. At the moment BÉ are short vehicles so i can't see how they'll play that one.

The OP is Carlow to Dublin so 4/X4 and under the expressway brand which means they'll only travel mostly on SE type (63 seats)

They won't be affected by any of this.

Needhome

First one with the earphones listening to music is unprofessional as a bus driver.
Anyone who drives on irish roads has to wear seat belts by law.
If a driver is using an ear piece for being on the phone then thars ok.
Dont know about the driver falling asleep behind the wheel because every bus or coach driver is governed by a tacho which means the tacho records speed,breaks taken and hours worked driving time.their only allowed drive a certain amount of hours per day & per week so if they work over those hours an the RSA catches them on a road stop the driver and company gets a heafty fine. So its not worth it for either

patrickc wrote: »

I was on a BE bus from Carlow to Dublin and return today.

a couple of observations I have and I'm wondering can anyone tell me the regulations re them?

One driver had earphones in and was listening to music today can they do that?
neither driver wore their seat belt, do they have to?
One driver was on the phone non stop but was using an earpiece, again is that allowed?

I actually thought the driver this morning was going to fall asleep at the wheel, he looked wrecked and had his head in his hands leaning on the wheel a bit.

GM228

magentis wrote: »

BE LD and LF are double deck coaches,not double deck buses.

"Coach" is a term of art used to describe a luxury/higher spec bus, first introduced in the US for luxury buses and originates from horse drawn stage coach.

A coach is still a bus, bus stems from the term "omnibus" which is the official classification for any type of large passenger carrying vehicle. LDs and LFs are most definately buses, but they are also as you say coaches - i.e luxury/higher spec buses.

GM228

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I think , go ahead are only getting a city bus fleet. With possibly the exception to edenderry itself only.

There has been no mention of any fleet being removed from bus Eireann , apart from the decommissioning of old fleet. At the moment BÉ are short vehicles so i can't see how they'll play that one.

GA are getting "13 new tri-axle double deck buses [coaches] from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses [coaches] (2016) from Bus Éireann" - according to an e-mail I previously got from the NTA.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GM228 wrote: »

GA are getting "13 new tri-axle double deck buses [coaches] from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses [coaches] (2016) from Bus Éireann" - according to an e-mail I previously got from the NTA.

I'm gonna say it now, from direct experience

Those vdl things are rubbish. Very unreliable, plenty of gearbox failures, electronic issues and unexplained breakdowns. I'm talking 2015 and newer too.

I've already had 3 new LFs fail on me recently due to either electronic issues or gearbox issues.

Yes they carry approx 83 people and look pretty but it ends there. They are not nice to drive for a driver and not reliable at all. Aswell as being slow and clunky while accelerating

The NTA really should be looking at some other brands / make / models of these type of buses.

I'd actually go as far to say that the Vanhool double deck coaches that Dublin coach have are actually a lot more reliable than the VDL double deck coaches !

Just my two cents.


Interesting to hear BÉ losing a bunch of these btw since they are very short buses in many locations. Wounder how they will cope

GM228

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Interesting to hear BÉ losing a bunch of these btw since they are very short buses in many locations. Wounder how they will cope

The 38 VDL LCs and the LF fleet (which will be 25 strong) replaced more than the outgoing fleet AFAIK.

I also wonder how many buses are currently tied up on Kildare services versus the 10 being released?

The 20 (potentially 38) new Expressway buses will probably also prop up the PSO fleet like they currently do. The Expressway SCs regularly work PSO services and have even seen an SE on the 120 twice in recent times.

punisher5112

Very interesting koppaberg.

I find the same with db fleet.

We went from a real drivers dream of a bus to drive to just horrible bone shakers.