The Plastic Problem

WoollyRedHat

As time goes on this is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, both environmentally speaking, with the impact it's having on our oceans etc. dramatic and costing us in the pocket too.

Plastic was seen as fantastic as a way of packaging and ensuring food didn't spoil and a massive benefit sold to consumers was the fact that it was non-biodegradable. The chickens have come home to roost in this regard. Plastic is not sustainable and is polluting our waters and landscapes.

Much research has been published in the last several years about the extent of microplastic and its prevalence in rivers and seas being much worse than orginally thought. In the UK, major floods in the area in 2015-16 flushed more than 40bn pieces of microplastic into the sea. These microplastics are swallowed by fish thinking it's food. They also make their way back into our system, absorved by our bodies, due to the micro size of said particles being able to breach the protective membrane, which it's safe to say will have negative impacts on people's health caused by toxicity. Legislation has recently been enacted to ban the use of these micro-plastics( often found in hygeiene products) yet there is a good chance they are found at industry level as well.

The amount of waste that goes into packaging, as I am sure many are aware of from first-hand experience, is shameful. Plastic containers, bottles, coffee cups, coffee capsules etc. There was an article recently about Tesco being accused of having cynical packaging, in that their ribs seemed much bigger than they actually were, with a big gap down the middle, the label obsucifcating this. Once again it was a glaring example of excessive packaging used by supermarkets. Supermarkets need to be held accountable for excess packaging sold to the consumer. People as consumers also need to pay attention to products they buy and how much waste they generate.

We have a sugar tax on the way. We need a levy on plastics that are non-biodegradable, that is put on the manufacturer and strict fines imposed on those who fail to reduce packaging waste by our governments. If you have a travel mug, please use it, the plastic found in coffee cups to keep the cardboard from becoming soggy is very often non-biodegradable. Stop buying plastic bottles for water etc.

On the coffee capsules front, there is a company in Italy who produces biodegradable coffee capsules 30 days from source. We need more companies who care enough about the environment to seek innovative ways to miminize pollution and reduce waste. We collectively need to seek out these products, even if it costs more. It's time for another wave of consumer activism to stem the tide. Our government needs to think about aways to reduce consumption; provide grants to companies who seek ways to do this and lessen the environmental impact. Impose bans on certain products if neccesary. Create initiatives and give-back schemes such as bottle banks ala Germany.

It was announced recently that China has said 'Enough' and will no longer take our waste. These has caused companies like Panda to announce a charge for recyling- http://www.thejournal.ie/panda-recycling-3901850-Mar2018/ So one way or another you're paying for it.

A frightening statistic: 'The amount of plastic produced from 2000 - 2010 exceeds the amount produced during the entire last century'.

What can we do individually and as a collective to do something to help? For anyone interested there have been interesting articles on the likes of The Guardian etc. on the extent of the problem, each one more saddening than the last. It's eco-destruction and shows no signs of abetting.


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42264788

kneemos

If it all gets binned/recycled how does it end up in the ocean?

_Brian

kneemos wrote: »

If it all gets binned/recycled how does it end up in the ocean?

Yes littering is a serious problem.
But relying on binning/recycling isn’t the answer.

Binning, just results in more landfill and surely everyone sees the folly in that process.
Even recycled plastic ends up with waste in each cycle and very little can be used to package food again so more new food grade plastic is constantly being produced to be recycled or binned.

I think placing the burden onto the consumers is only a small portion of the solution. When pressure is applied to multinational companies to produce alternatives they will respond.
Banning certain packaging that can’t be recycled should be the first obvious step, using natural resources to produce plastic with zero chance of recycling is madness.

Then over time ban more and more.

Companies will want to supply foodnanand make profit no matter what, when the pressure comes on they will find alternatives to ensure their product reaches consumers.

Ubbquittious

I don't know why coffee capsules are a thing. Even ordinary filter coffee or the coffee from an El Cheapo espresso machine from Lidl tastes better than what comes out of those capsule machines

WoollyRedHat

kneemos wrote: »

If it all gets binned/recycled how does it end up in the ocean?

Lack of quality of waste management systems for one, sometimes the stuff that makes it to landfill ( I.E. non-recyable) can even blow into the sea.
Then there's the microparticles.

_Brian wrote: »

Then over time ban more and more.

Companies will want to supply foodnanand make profit no matter what, when the pressure comes on they will find alternatives to ensure their product reaches consumers.

Exactly profit is king, they'll just have to find another way. But we need that push to put a stop to our throwaway consumption.

BorneTobyWilde

In a lot of countries the River is a dump that never fills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnMBGXVVUI

Donald Trump

Reduce, reuse and recycle

Old plastic bags make great alternative condoms kids

Feck Paris and it's accord. I'm gonna ride my way to solving climate change

HONKEY TONK

What I find mad is that China was taking the plastic from Ireland

More than 95 percent of Irish plastic was recycled in China in 2016.

Using plastic as packaging in Ireland should be Ireland problem.

Del2005

Sure don't REPAK look after our waste and all retailers are part of it.



Maybe instead of just taking money off the consumer, retailers pay to be part of REPAK and they pass on all costs, they should make REPAK make the producers/retailers take back their packaging and then it'll be sorted, because the only way to change is to hit the producers not the consumer.

kneemos

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

In a lot of countries the River is a dump that never fills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnMBGXVVUI

That's what I was thinking. Very little of our waste ends up in the sea. Most of it comes from the developing world.

TallGlass

kneemos wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Very little of our waste ends up in the sea. Most of it comes from the developing world.

If you think that's bad, you want to see what they done with e waste in China.

Humans are a filthy animal, myself included in that. I have tried to change, but in some places it's just unavoidable that you chuck a recyclable into the normal waste or times, when I could have used something reusable I used a disposable. It's a crying shame what we have done to this planet Earth, the Amazon is getting distroyed, if it's not cutting it down, or washing acid into the ground table from Cocaine production or now just dumping straight up waste into it.

The next big revolution has to be waste management, this can't continue, it really can't, it's just not viable.

hullaballoo

I was amazed to see the response from Panda on this.

Introduce fees - ok, maybe fair enough if the market has collapsed.

Find alternative buyers - apparently there are none, though. /sadface

Recycle it here - good solution, what are you making? Plastic bin bags. :rolleyes:

They are recycling plastic to put it into landfill.

Slow clap.

Harry Palmr

My advice is to take your shopping to the bagging shelf when in Lidl or aldi and remove all packaging you can and leave it there. A box will quickly appear.

Autosport

Some of us already pay for our recycling so this is nothing new.

Spudmonkey

The plastic issue has been a serious problem for years now but as a race the majority of humans are too short sighted to see it as an issue.

I've tried to cut down my plastic consumption but without a concerted effort it is really difficult, virtually everything nowadays is packaged in single use plastic. You want to try and be healthy and buy veg in lidl and the majority of it is packaged in the by-product of something that existed 65 million years ago. It's insane.

There are some people like Boyan Slat who seem to be trying to address it and are trying to come up with solutions to clean the ocean but that all seems to be self-funded with little input from a governmental level.

When I see things like this I have to laugh. It really is like trying to put out the chip pan while the house itself is burning down.

AllForIt

I couldn't believe those facial scrubs thingys contain plastic , so called 'micro beads'. I threw what I had of those in the bin and won't be buying them again. A little tub of salt is what I use now with some soap which is just as good.

Grayson

And production is just going to increase.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/26/180bn-investment-in-plastic-factories-feeds-global-packaging-binge

there are three ways this can change.

1) It's economically viable for companies top produce and use less plastics.
2) Top down: Governments change regulations.
3) Bottom up: Consumers drive a demand

I can't see any happening any time soon. Option 2 is probably the most likely.

Flippyfloppy

From researching this topic, I found that 90% of plastic disposed of in Ireland is recycled thankfully. However this is before China stopped taking our plastic.

As a result of this new development many waste companies have instructed us all to put soft plastics into general waste bins. The problem with this is that tonnes of plastic literally blows into the sea/rivers from open dumps. It's frustrating that this is our option at this time of a global need to reduce plastic waste.

Other ways plastic ends up in the sea:
Micro beads (found in plenty of innocent looking shower gels,facewashes and toothpaste, have started using brands found in health stores)

Wet wipes/baby wipes/tampons being flushed down the toilet into the sea

Glitter used in arts and crafts, can end up in bins and going down drains, is a huge contributor to the plastic problem.

I've started buying fruit/vegetables with no plastic packaging, Bananas are obviously the most manageable here!

I really hope there are levies introduced to suppliers for the plastic they use!!

david75

Read somewhere that every time we wash clothes billions of particles come of synthetic fabrics like polyester and make their way into the water. So imagine the vast amounts of water being used in every major city and it washing out into the sea. This is how it’s worked it’s way into the oceans and food Chain and being found In fish.
So it’s not just plastic bottles and bags etc.
Its bein covered but really isn’t getting the amounts attention it deserves. And probably won’t until far too late.

steddyeddy

At the National Renewable Energy lab, an arm of the US department of Energy we're working on engineering enzymes found in nature to degrade long life plastics such as polyethene terephthalate, a plastic which most drink bottles are made of.

One of the enzymes we're working with is called PETase. An enzyme which hydrolyses the ester bond in polyethene terephthalate, yielding terephthalic acid, a chemical that the host bacteria, Ideonella sakaiensis can ustilise as a sole carbon source. In other words a bacteria has evolved to eat plastic.
We've managed to engineer and patent a variety that is 20% more efficient at digesting plastic.

steddyeddy

kneemos wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Very little of our waste ends up in the sea. Most of it comes from the developing world.

Don't underestimate the effect of tourist driven pollution in the western world. The governments of developing countries may be particularly cavalier regarding pollution, but so too are individuals in the western world.

kenmc

Harry Palmr wrote: »

My advice is to take your shopping to the bagging shelf when in Lidl or aldi and remove all packaging you can and leave it there. A box will quickly appear.

I'll be doing more of this. Already do it when polystyrene trays are used in fruit packaging. There's a bin in aldi I put it into.

Mostly, I don't need the outer packaging. The shops do, to advertise, transport, stack and scan. The inner bag from the cereal is fine for me thanks, likewise the apples are grand loose. Etc.

Ted Plain

I've switched from shower gel back to soap for showering. There was a thread on here a while back about how shower gel became popular over the past few decades and that is what decided me.

I also religiously bring my bags-for-life and rucksack with me when clothes shopping instead of taking the paper ones they give out for free. I've been doing this for years.

Then again, like a lemming, I bought one of those Nespresso machines. I do return the used capsules to the Nestle people, but who knows where they end up!

Harry Palmr

2 items I bought today that are over-packaged.

A multipack of raisins with outer plastic wrap, a plastic tray and 12 cardboard boxes, a razor inside a strong plastic container inside a needless cardboard/plastic display box.

kenmc

I wonder what would happen if you brought some empty kilner jars to the shops, emptied the rice, pasta, cereal etc into them as you went around with the trolley and presented the empty packets at the till for scanning.

Harry Palmr

They'd be annoyed as it would be hard to prove the jar contents are the same as the amount in the package. you could pour two packs but present only one, having dropped the other behind a pack of whatever it was you bought!

Will I Am Not

While I realise that this is a huge issue, those zero waste people can be absolutely mental. Only short of sculpting kitchenware from their own sh*te.

kenmc

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'd be annoyed as it would be hard to prove the jar contents are the same as the amount in the package. you could pour two packs but present only one, having dropped the other behind a pack of whatever it was you bought!

Isn't the onus on them to prove you stole it? I.e. you could fill your pockets with as much as you want, but until you leave the store you've not actually stolen something. Likewise just because you have something in your pocket leaving the store, doesn't mean you stole it unless they saw you put it there in their shop. Or am I dreaming?

Flippyfloppy

Will I Am Not wrote: »

While I realise that this is a huge issue, those zero waste people can be absolutely mental. Only short of sculpting kitchenware from their own sh*te.

At least they're getting up off their arses and doing something about it

kneemos

kenmc wrote: »

Isn't the onus on them to prove you stole it? I.e. you could fill your pockets with as much as you want, but until you leave the store you've not actually stolen something. Likewise just because you have something in your pocket leaving the store, doesn't mean you stole it unless they saw you put it there in their shop. Or am I dreaming?

You're dreaming.

The world however needs more of you.

readyletsgo

Blast all the plastic into space maybe? Like in Futurama. Once a year? Joke.

It's a serious situation that, while some of use do what we can, 3rd world countries/underdeveloped places just keep dumping. It's a world problem, as someone already said, humans a very short sighted/stupid/lazy/don't give a f***.

It's a real shame.

BorneTobyWilde

Makes sense to incinerate it to produce electricity, and then to try cut out the need for plastic packaging.
Get back to the good old glass bottle.

Will I Am Not

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

At least they're getting up off their arses and doing something about it

They can do it without being mental...

Standing Bear

Cotton buds are a disaster too but there's hope on the horizon: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/02/13/johnson-johnson-ditch-plastic-cotton-buds-save-oceans/ Pity that our useless parliamentarians wouldn't get off their backsides and lead the way instead of always hand wringing and saying that we are such a small polluter that it would make no difference to get our act together.

Cookie_Monster

There seems to have been a lot of movement in the news in the last 6-12 months on this at least. lots of countries banning various types of plastic. Straws seems to be enemy number 1 now, lots of place refusing to use them or substituting plant based etc. Coffee cups made from plant derivatives instead of plastic coated. China has banned loads of stuff starting from 2020 onwards, as have the EU iirc.

Maybe too late overall but actions are being taken. Several companies also looking at ocean cleanup as well to deal with some of the issue: https://www.theoceancleanup.com/

Costa Rica want to be the first country in the world to ban all single use products (and to go completely carbon neutral as well)

Chinasea

Deposit refund on plastic bottles, glass and cans would not only reduce our litter problem by 80% but cover costs of responsible disposal.

It's extremely successful in the progressive countries that have this system in place.

We constantly pat ourselves on the back for the plastic bag levy, but it seems we peaked at that.

gingergirl

Manufacturers and supermarkets need to change the amount of plastic wrapping on their products, consumers should start to make noise about this. In my local Aldi there's a bin at the bag packing area, I usually discard the pa caging in there. Maybe if people started to discard pa caging supermarkets might take notice

Harry Palmr

Plastic bottles drink tiny plastic strands. Oh yes opening the cap may be the main polluter!

Ubbquittious

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Makes sense to incinerate it to produce electricity, and then to try cut out the need for plastic packaging.
Get back to the good old glass bottle.

Incinerating will seem like a huge waste in years to come, better to recycle it into more long-lived and useful stuff

Cookie_Monster

gingergirl wrote: »

Manufacturers and supermarkets need to change the amount of plastic wrapping on their products, consumers should start to make noise about this. In my local Aldi there's a bin at the bag packing area, I usually discard the pa caging in there. Maybe if people started to discard pa caging supermarkets might take notice

Repak allow supermarkets to ignore the problem. They just pay repak and that covers them and leaves consumers with the disposal problem. Repak needs reforming so it's demanding supermarkets provide facilities for packaging disposal and return rather than just foisting the problem onto consumers

dr.fuzzenstein

Well with plastic destroying the ocean, the bees dying and climate change, it really is crunch time.
And with China, India and the US really stepping on the gas, I am actually fearful that within 100 years this planet will become uninhabitable.
Human beings truly are closer to a virus than other mammals. We just destroy and move on.

GhostyMcGhost

I kid you not, at a restaurant the other day and inside a sugar bowl was individually packaged sugar cubes

Yes each and every sugar cube wrapped up like a sweet

Completely and utterly unnecessary and a pure waste

WoollyRedHat

Some interesting posts here, good to get the discussion going. I hope people can get more civic minded on this matter. If you notice your company may be guilty of perpetuating this problem, try bandy together and put pressure on them to change. It's not going to be enough, but any progress is progress.

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

I kid you not, at a restaurant the other day and inside a sugar bowl was individually packaged sugar cubes

Yes each and every sugar cube wrapped up like a sweet

Completely and utterly unnecessary and a pure waste

If they want to go down the hygiene route, why not use paper!

I placed an order with a popular office supplies comapny the other day. It was a box of magnets x 2 which are tiny, and was in a massibe envelope with plastic covering, it was ridicilous.


Today an article about a study on bottled water:

In the new study, analysis of 259 bottles from 19 locations in nine countries across 11 different brands found an average of 325 plastic particles for every litre of water being sold.

and

Of the 259 bottles tested, only 17 were free of plastics, according to the study

The study found that there was twice as much plastic particles in bottled water compared to tap water.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/15/microplastics-found-in-more-than-90-of-bottled-water-study-says?CMP=fb_gu

Spudmonkey

Thought it was worthwhile resurrecting this..

https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-launch-deposit-return-scheme-for-single-use-bottles-in-england-11306448

Fair play to SKY, they've been highlighting this as an issue for months now and are probably one of the reasons this has been accepted. The last line on the article is stark...

"By 2050, it is predicted that the total amount of plastic in the oceans will weigh more than the total amount of fish."

Would love to see something similar introduced here.

kneemos

All well and good to make an effort but we're looking in the wrong https://www.google.ie/search?q=pollution+in+india&client=ms-android-huawei&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy1taW3Y7aAhVIIMAKHTFcDIoQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=524#imgdii=w_YoMsd8BdAoaM:&imgrc=RR7SaGXYvlhN9M:.

Hector Savage

What about some sort of transport into space ? or dumping it all on Mars ?

Didn't they find an old dishwasher on Mars ?

Harry Palmr

Hector Savage wrote: »

What about some sort of transport into space ? or dumping it all on Mars ?

Didn't they find an old dishwasher on Mars ?

Double decker bus I thought!

Seriously though good to see the UK are getting on board with recycling bottles as Ireland will almost certainly follow on.

Sidebaro

Everybody needs to relax, some future whiz kid will invent a solution to the pollution and everything will be fine. If we try to solve it now then we'll be preventing said whiz kid from making a fortune from our mistakes.

Hector Savage

Sidebaro wrote: »

Everybody needs to relax, some future whiz kid will invent a solution to the pollution and everything will be fine. If we try to solve it now then we'll be preventing said whiz kid from making a fortune from our mistakes.

Speaking of whiz kids, isn't some young guy developing a really smart system that will be able to collect a **** load of ocean plastic ?

I think this is it - https://www.theoceancleanup.com/

SEANoftheDEAD

Hector Savage wrote: »

What about some sort of transport into space ? or dumping it all on Mars ?

Mars is our future home, gotta keep it clean for as long as possible.

Venus would be a better bet. Just round up all our rubbish and launch it into that planet. At least it'd all burn up.

Hector Savage

This is the founder,
https://twitter.com/BoyanSlat

Such innovation and so young - the world needs more people like him.