Selling cars from home

Jack5445

Hi,

I want to set up as a car dealer and sell from my house. I've a couple of queries if anyone could help.

1. Do I need planning permission to do so?
2. What's the process involved with getting a garage code/number and what is needed to get it?

Any help would be appreciated.

Lantus

Running a business from a home would require planning permission and unless you have a lot of land it's very unlikely you will operate a dealership from your house with multiple vehicles parked up. Not to mention insurance and the risk to residents from increased fire hazard.

Jack5445

Lantus wrote: »

Running a business from a home would require planning permission and unless you have a lot of land it's very unlikely you will operate a dealership from your house with multiple vehicles parked up. Not to mention insurance and the risk to residents from increased fire hazard.

Thanks for the response, have plenty of land so won’t be stuck for space or will not be interfering with residents/causing increase risk. As far as insurance is concerned my understanding is that garage insurance would cover me to sell cars, I won’t be fixing cars/employing anyone so won’t necessarily need public liability.

bazz26

If you are going to be an official above board motor trader then you will need a TAN from Revenue and be VAT registered afaik. Maybe go have a chat with an accountant.

Chiorino

"so won’t necessarily need public liability"

If any member of the public is coming onto your property, especially for commercial reasons, then you absolutely need public liability insurance. Not fixing vehicles or employing people is irrelevant.

Jack5445

bazz26 wrote: »

If you are going to be an official above board motor trader then you will need a TAN from Revenue and be VAT registered afaik. Maybe go have a chat with an accountant.

As far as I know you would only need to be vat registered if your turnover exceeds 75,000 in the year. I would be working full time to start with so don’t plan to go over 75,000 and wouldn’t be importing cars so wouldn’t need a TAN number.

terrydel

Jack5445 wrote: »

As far as I know you would only need to be vat registered if your turnover exceeds 75,000 in the year. I would be working full time to start with so don’t plan to go over 75,000 and wouldn’t be importing cars so wouldn’t need a TAN number.

Turnover is the gross amount you take in, working fulltime means nothing to it as far as Im aware.
Sell 15 5 grand cars and you'll hit that limit, it wont be difficult to exceed it.

Jack5445

terrydel wrote: »

Turnover is the gross amount you take in, working fulltime means nothing to it as far as Im aware.
Sell 15 5 grand cars and you'll hit that limit, it wont be difficult to exceed it.

I’m aware of that, would be mostly lower value cars I would be trading in and plan to keep turnover below the 75,000 mark.

CeilingFly

Lantus wrote: »

Running a business from a home would require planning permission and unless you have a lot of land it's very unlikely you will operate a dealership from your house with multiple vehicles parked up. Not to mention insurance and the risk to residents from increased fire hazard.

Incorrect - but correct in relation to the OP

Running a business from home that involves interaction with customers at your business address requires planning.


If you are running a business that does not require people to attend the premises, no planning is required.

Selling cars involves interaction with customers at the address, so planning would be required. This would also mean commercial rates.

Chances of obtaining planning would be zero.


If just having / selling one car at the time, you may find it doesn't come to the attention of the council - so if doing it, make sure you get on well with neighbours.

Jack5445

CeilingFly wrote: »

Incorrect - but correct in relation to the OP

Running a business from home that involves interaction with customers at your business address requires planning.


If you are running a business that does not require people to attend the premises, no planning is required.

Selling cars involves interaction with customers at the address, so planning would be required. This would also mean commercial rates.

Chances of obtaining planning would be zero.


If just having / selling one car at the time, you may find it doesn't come to the attention of the council - so if doing it, make sure you get on well with neighbours.

Thanks for the response, why would you say “the chances of obtaining planning are zero”?

I couldn’t see why I wouldn’t be able to get it.

Looking to sell more than one at a time and want to get a garage code and trade insurance.

CeilingFly

Jack5445 wrote: »

Thanks for the response, why would you say “the chances of obtaining planning are zero”?

I couldn’t see why I wouldn’t be able to get it.

Looking to sell more than one at a time and want to get a garage code and trade insurance.

It would set a dangerous precedent. It could cause a traffic hazzard, neighbours would object, other garages in the area would object, it may require rezoning, you'd have the home commercially rated (commercial rates can be high - a small industrial unit in Kildare would have rates of over €3,000 a year)

Unless you live in an area that has seen similar commercial development amongst private dwellings (example Red Cow in Dublin) and it has been zoned for commercial use, it won't be granted.

Jack5445

CeilingFly wrote: »

It would set a dangerous precedent. It could cause a traffic hazzard, neighbours would object, other garages in the area would object, it may require rezoning, you'd have the home commercially rated (commercial rates can be high - a small industrial unit in Kildare would have rates of over €3,000 a year)

Unless you live in an area that has seen similar commercial development amongst private dwellings (example Red Cow in Dublin) and it has been zoned for commercial use, it won't be granted.

Couldn’t see it being a problem with neighbours/traffic. I’m in the countryside and have plenty of land to play with. Was thinking it might be an option to just have yard on the land away from the house to get out of paying rates on the house.

CeilingFly

Jack5445 wrote: »

Couldn’t see it being a problem with neighbours/traffic. I’m in the countryside and have plenty of land to play with. Was thinking it might be an option to just have yard on the land away from the house to get out of paying rates on the house.

If its just a few cars and you get on with neighbours and don't build a big structure and signage, you'll probably be fine.

If you do go the planning route, I'd look for planning for a small car/farm machinery repair workshop rather than a sales garage.

Lantus

Jack5445 wrote:

Couldn’t see it being a problem with neighbours/traffic. I’m in the countryside and have plenty of land to play with. Was thinking it might be an option to just have yard on the land away from the house to get out of paying rates on the house.

You can't see a problem because you have a vested interest in doing it. Building a dedicated building makes sense but inviting customers onto your land has multiple issues as you need to achieve today's standards.

Cee-Jay-Cee

If you are in a town or within town boundaries then local council can also hit you for commercial rates for your water etc etc

Jack5445

Lantus wrote: »

You can't see a problem because you have a vested interest in doing it. Building a dedicated building makes sense but inviting customers onto your land has multiple issues as you need to achieve today's standards.

Wasn’t thinking off building any building, all I need is space/yard to store and show the cars to customers. Wouldn’t have any more than 10 at a time so wouldn’t need that much space really.

Jack5445

OSI wrote: »

Who the **** is going to buy a car off someone with nothing but a yard in the middle of nowhere? You also 100% need insurance. How do you plan to cover yourself if you sell a vehicle that is dangerously defective and results in injury?

Thanks for your helpful input, never asked for advice on how to sell cars either.

biko

I suggest you go visit someone who is already doing what you are interested in doing, buy them a few pints and pick their brain.

MarkN

Registering for VAT is well below €75,000 threshold too.

Bob_Marley

you'll need planning permission for a change of use for the current land
you'll probably also need to pay commercial rates on the land / buildings you use
Also you'll be liable for covering defects on what you sell
plus all the usual insurance and tax requirements

Good luck, the margins are tight, and to tell you the truth the only people that make a living buying and selling cars these days are :

1) the cowboy "dealer" (a reputation for which you will never loose if you're foolish enough to go down that route, and not a great way to put in your life)
2) reputable professional self employed mechanics who sell a few cars on the side as well as servicing them
3) or main dealers / large independents.

Jack5445

MarkN wrote: »

Registering for VAT is well below €75,000 threshold too.

Incorrect you have the option to register for vat below a turnover off 75,000 but you are only obliged to register for vat with a turnover off 75,000 + when selling goods.

elperello

If you are only going to turn over 15-20 cars a year you won't need a yard to store 10 at one time.

Could you just buy a car or two advertise them and meet the prospective buyer in a shopping centre ? If the deal is done bring them back to the house to complete formalities.

See how you get on at that level first before investing in infrastructure you won't need if it doesn't work out.

Jack5445

elperello wrote: »

If you are only going to turn over 15-20 cars a year you won't need a yard to store 10 at one time.

Could you just buy a car or two advertise them and meet the prospective buyer in a shopping centre ? If the deal is done bring them back to the house to complete formalities.

See how you get on at that level first before investing in infrastructure you won't need if it doesn't work out.

I will turn over more than 15/20 cars a year. It’s not that I need a yard I have plenty of room around the house, the idea behind the yard was to make it easier to get planning/cheaper for rates.

I have being doing as you said and am fully confident it will work out.

fritzelly

As another poster said, I see zero chance of it being rezoned as commercia/permission given
This will affect the value of other residential properties in the area even if they are not right next door, especially as you say you are in a rural setting
Nothing to do with what space you have to run your business, could be selling cars now and before you know it you have spare tyres and engines and ... what have you hanging around the place

CeilingFly

OSI wrote: »

Who the **** is going to buy a car off someone with nothing but a yard in the middle of nowhere?

I'll have a wild guess you are a dub and rarely move outside the pale

In rural areas, reputation will matter more than a fancy garage. I'm not overly rural, but rural enough that I can pop into the local pub on Christmas morning. There is a car repair service nearby and they sell a few cars - nothing more than a large shed in a back garden, but a place with a reputation of trust. Hence they are busy on service and many parents will source their kid's first car from them because "they'll do right for you"

Life is far better outside the pale

James Bond Junior

Been there, done that, back in the day job. It is a lot harder than you think.

bazz26

Hasn't the boat on this venture kind of sailed at this stage already? With Brexit kicking in next March sourcing cheap cars from the UK will dry up if we end up having to pay VAT on them too. That and your trying to compete with the supermarket car park type dealers on donedeal with little or no overheads.

Del2005

Jack5445 wrote: »

I will turn over more than 15/20 cars a year. It’s not that I need a yard I have plenty of room around the house, the idea behind the yard was to make it easier to get planning/cheaper for rates.

I have being doing as you said and am fully confident it will work out.

The council are well wise to the scams people try. Doesn't matter where on your land you sell it's still a change of use and will require planning permission and they will charge rates.

I think there are also tax implications for using your home as a business and Revenue don't mess about.

BTW if you aren't going to build a garage how are you going to prep the cars? Even washing a car can be a nightmare in the open never mind maintenance.

bear1

You'd be mad not to get liability insurance.

Jack5445

CeilingFly wrote: »

I'll have a wild guess you are a dub and rarely move outside the pale

In rural areas, reputation will matter more than a fancy garage. I'm not overly rural, but rural enough that I can pop into the local pub on Christmas morning. There is a car repair service nearby and they sell a few cars - nothing more than a large shed in a back garden, but a place with a reputation of trust. Hence they are busy on service and many parents will source their kid's first car from them because "they'll do right for you"

Life is far better outside the pale

Not a dub and have sold plenty of cars to local people.

Jack5445

Del2005 wrote: »

The council are well wise to the scams people try. Doesn't matter where on your land you sell it's still a change of use and will require planning permission and they will charge rates.

I think there are also tax implications for using your home as a business and Revenue don't mess about.

BTW if you aren't going to build a garage how are you going to prep the cars? Even washing a car can be a nightmare in the open never mind maintenance.

Won’t be preping any cars, valeting and mechanic work will be outsourced.

Doctors room ghost

Jack5445 wrote: »

Not a dub and have sold plenty of cars to local people.

You haven’t a clue what you are at here.the lad posting that was actually siding with you saying that people do actually buy vehicles from rural locations with trusted reputations.
You have also shot down several posters telling them they were wrong with their information. If you are that knowledgeable you will be king of the world in no time.
And my opinion is if you are planning on just buying cheap cars and outsourcing service work,maintenance and valeting and your only role will be parking them in a yard and upping the price then I reckon you haven’t a hope and are actually clueless. If it’s as easy as buy small and sell big we would all be at it.
If a person wants a car that’s 2k on paper why would they go to your yard and pay more for it?naturally they would just avoid the middle man and buy cheap themselves.

wally79

Jack5445 wrote: »

Not a dub and have sold plenty of cars to local people.

I don’t think he meant that for you

CeilingFly

Jack5445 wrote: »

Not a dub and have sold plenty of cars to local people.

My comment wasn't directed to you - if anything it was to say why this way of selling can work in a rural area as trust and reputation is far more important than a fancy garage in rural communities

Whocare

bazz26 wrote: »

Hasn't the boat on this venture kind of sailed at this stage already? With Brexit kicking in next March sourcing cheap cars from the UK will dry up if we end up having to pay VAT on them too. That and your trying to compete with the supermarket car park type dealers on donedeal with little or no overheads.

If More people had that attitude they be no one working in this country.

elperello

We discussed the post brexit VAT situation a while ago in another thread and apparently nobody knows what will happen.

Cars sold in the UK before brexit will be VAT paid in the EU. After brexit if they are exported to an EU country will they need to pay VAT in the EU again?

how.gareth

The op could do with a good belt of reality, seems to have all the answers yet feels the need to hop on over to boards asking for advice which he then either ignores or contradicts. Buying and selling cheap oul yokes and he’s out sourcing the valeting!! Feckin hilarious

fritzelly

elperello wrote: »

We discussed the post brexit VAT situation a while ago in another thread and apparently nobody knows what will happen.

Cars sold in the UK before brexit will be VAT paid in the EU. After brexit if they are exported to an EU country will they need to pay VAT in the EU again?

You don't pay VAT twice, taxes are deducted at the destination
But it's anyone's guess what the arrangements will be.

elperello

fritzelly wrote: »

You don't pay VAT twice, taxes are deducted at the destination
But it's anyone's guess what the arrangements will be.

Yes I guess it remains an unknown unknown

bazz26

Whocare wrote: »

If More people had that attitude they be no one working in this country.

Not studying the market properly that you plan on earning your crust in is the wrong attitude and exactly what contributed to the mess this country was in for 10 years but forward thinking and planning are not really Irish strong points.

Philb76

how.gareth wrote: »

The op could do with a good belt of reality, seems to have all the answers yet feels the need to hop on over to boards asking for advice which he then either ignores or contradicts. Buying and selling cheap oul yokes and he’s out sourcing the valeting!! Feckin hilarious

Couldn't agree more plus the servicing and maintenance i wud definitely buy a cheap motor of him might even get a 1 year warranty

Fann Linn

Jack5445 wrote: »

Couldn’t see it being a problem with neighbours/traffic. I’m in the countryside and have plenty of land to play with. Was thinking it might be an option to just have yard on the land away from the house to get out of paying rates on the house.

The amount of calls our LA gets anonymously from 'neighbours' when 3/4/5 cars suddenly land, or if ye put up signage, or if ye have an untaxed car on the road, or if ye have a few cars running early on Saturday morning or on a Sunday evening.

Thats even before the local garage or motor breakers or mechanics start phoning up in case you're moving in on them.