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When Does Life Begin?

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    #32
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Brian? wrote: »
    I'm fine with that. I'm fine with laws have arbitrary age limits etc. . I'm not fine with them being enshrined in the constitution though .
    ... like the wording of Article 12.4.1 of the Constitution ???

    "Every citizen who has reached his thirty-fifth year of age is eligible for election to the office of President."


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    #33
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    professore wrote: »
    I assume we are talking about a new human life. Well, that's a very difficult question to answer actually. What do you mean by "alive"?

    Is it the moment of conception?
    Is it when the fetus looks recognisably human?
    Is it when the fetus has a heartbeat?
    Is it when the fetus can live independently outside the womb?
    Is it (as is legally defined in the US) when the newborn baby takes it's first breath?
    Is it when a baby can speak and express an opinion or desire of it's own?
    Is it when a child can live independently of it's parents?
    What about mentally impaired children and adults who can't think for themselves? Are they alive in any meaningful sense?

    Or people in long term comas - are they alive?
    They're all alive.

    professore wrote: »
    What I do know is that I would like a clear cutoffs and terms to vote yes or no to, copperfastened in the constitution. Not some dopey politicians deciding after the fact. That's why I won't vote yes to a straight repeal vote.
    Scientifically, all new life starts at the moment of fertilization ... and this applies to everything from Frogs to Human Beings.

    The next question is when does the law offer protection to a living being.
    In the case of Frogs and other wildlife, the law protects their lives at all stages from fertilization to natural or accidental death.

    In the case of Human Beings, Irish Law currently offers protection from fertilization until natural or accidental death. The only exception is where the Human Being must be killed to prevent the death of another ... this is enshrined in the 8th in relation to unborn Human Beings ... and in Common and Statute Law in relation to born Human Beings.

    In other countries protection is legally removed from unborn Human Beings for various stated reasons and at various stages between fertilization and birth ... to facilitate procured abortion.


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    #34
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    J C wrote: »
    They're all alive.


    Scientifically, all new life starts at the moment of fertilization ... and this applies to everything from Frogs to Human Beings.

    The next question is when does the law offer protection to a living being.
    In the case of Frogs and other wildlife, the law protects their lives at all stages from fertilization to natural or accidental death.

    In the case of Human Beings, Irish Law currently offers protection from fertilization until natural or accidental death. The only exception is where the Human Being must be killed to prevent the death of another ... this is enshrined in the 8th in relation to unborn Human Beings ... and in Common and Statute Law in relation to born Human Beings.

    In other countries protection is legally removed from unborn Human Beings for various stated reasons and at various stages between fertilization and birth ... to facilitate procured abortion.



    Jc! Heya! Hope you’re well! Haven’t sent you in ages!

    Just in reply to your above post (full of misinformation and nonsense as per! Go you!)

    Here’s some facts from the obstetricians and gynaecologists among us. I think they might know better than us. And they’re in Ireland!



    https://www.rcpi.ie/faculties/obstetricians-and-gynaecologists/repeal-the-eighth-amendment-info-for-the-public/


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    #35
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    david75 wrote: »
    Jc! Heya! Hope you’re well! Haven’t sent you in ages!
    Thanks for your good wishes. Hope you're good too.
    david75 wrote: »
    Just in reply to your above post (full of misinformation and nonsense as per! Go you!)
    You're long on accusation here ... but very short on proof. Please address the specifics of my post ... rather than engaging in unfounded generalizations about me and my post.
    david75 wrote: »
    Here’s some facts from the obstetricians and gynaecologists among us. I think they might know better than us. And they’re in Ireland!

    https://www.rcpi.ie/faculties/obstetricians-and-gynaecologists/repeal-the-eighth-amendment-info-for-the-public/
    Good information on what is proposed ... and the technicalities of a particular type of abortion.

    Of course, what is proposed ... and what may actually happen may be two very different things ... another reason to leave the 8th in place until a definitive (and better) alternative is proposed.


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