Current Status of the 55m Luas trams

Tow

Hi,

What is the current (13/03/2018) status of the 55m trams?

I have yet to see see one actually running and according to the Luas website a second started service almost a month ago. (https://luas.ie/luas-serviceupdate-feb2018/)

After the initial FUBAR in front of the press. Are they running a full normal standard service, just making the odd off peak appearance or not running at all?

L1011

The first day issue was caused by a taxi blocking the tram, nothing else. They're in peak time service

AlekSmart

L1011 wrote: »

The first day issue was caused by a taxi blocking the tram, nothing else. They're in peak time service

Just when you thought it could'nt possibly be true.....:D

https://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/watch-just-when-you-thought-a-double-length-luas-was-bad-heres-a-luas-being-towed-by-a-double-length-luas-36699911.html#play

Triple decker sandwich ??

Radio Gold

I did see one on Harcourt Street this afternoon but it was on a test run and i also saw another one sitting in the Sandyford depot today but did not see on in service today.

Experience_day

The state of the Luas service is absolutely shocking. The queues and timings have been utterly dire. But you know what has been impeccable and consistent? "Revenue protection".

Never thought id see such a shower of kunts til these guys. Not a trace of humanity amongst them. I'm okay with my season ticket but the way they have treated people is completely objectionable and without discretion..

Jamie2k9

Experience_day wrote: »

The state of the Luas service is absolutely shocking. The queues and timings have been utterly dire. But you know what has been impeccable and consistent? "Revenue protection".

Never thought id see such a shower of kunts til these guys. Not a trace of humanity amongst them. I'm okay with my season ticket but the way they have treated people is completely objectionable and without discretion..

Well if they paid like others there would be no problem. Should they say "its alright don't worry"......your season ticket increases because of people who don't pay!

Experience_day

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well if they paid like others there would be no problem. Should they say "its alright don't worry"......your season ticket increases because of people who don't pay!

They should say nothing til they provide a reliable service...especially past sandyford. The idea of a light tram every so often in rush hour us a fcking joke. Makes us a laughing stock.

And I don't remember saying no one should pay. But I do think its objectionable when they see someone run for the luas, think they've tagged on and hop on.. When it turns out they haven't they take them, rather than letting tag on at next stop.

Or taking the young lad with his mates who didn't have his student card with him....even though he clearly was a student as were all his mates.

Or the tourists who were a zone out on their fares.

The list goes on. They are not nice people and are terrible ambassadors.

Though it amuses me how some decide to give the last carriage a miss when there are some rough looking scrotes..

Lord Glentoran

AlekSmart wrote: »

Just when you thought it could'nt possibly be true.....:D

https://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/watch-just-when-you-thought-a-double-length-luas-was-bad-heres-a-luas-being-towed-by-a-double-length-luas-36699911.html#play

Triple decker sandwich ??

That piece reinforces my view that the Indo hates public transport and anything approaching decent investment in it.

Jamie2k9

Experience_day wrote: »

They should say nothing til they provide a reliable service...especially past sandyford. The idea of a light tram every so often in rush hour us a fcking joke. Makes us a laughing stock.

And I don't remember saying no one should pay. But I do think its objectionable when they see someone run for the luas, think they've tagged on and hop on.. When it turns out they haven't they take them, rather than letting tag on at next stop.

Or taking the young lad with his mates who didn't have his student card with him....even though he clearly was a student as were all his mates.

Or the tourists who were a zone out on their fares.

The list goes on. They are not nice people and are terrible ambassadors.

Though it amuses me how some decide to give the last carriage a miss when there are some rough looking scrotes..

You adopt a single policy not one that suits everybody's needs. The obligation is on the customer to comply with all rules.

LeChienMefiant

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You adopt a single policy not one that suits everybody's needs. The obligation is on the customer to comply with all rules.

And surely they have the right to appeal. No point arguing with revenue protection. If only they were as active on Dublin Bus and other transport.

AlekSmart

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

That piece reinforces my view that the Indo hates public transport and anything approaching decent investment in it.

Really ?

Why ?

Did it not actually occur....?

Is it of some interest to observers of the current situation ?

It is a video clip,of a factual occurrence,with no accompanying editorial comment,save for a pithy (and not innacurate )header.

One question which the clip does raise,is which of the Trams is disabled...the New lengthened 5027,or the older 5007 ?

Would it be preferable if,for example,the BBC World Service had gotten to the clip firat ?

howiya

New trams withdrawn

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/longer-luas-trams-withdrawn-due-to-fault-in-system-1.3429510

Tow

As I expected, they were not being run during rush hour.


Summary:

"Longer Luas trams withdrawn due to fault in system."

“Every effort is being made to identify what that fault is and to bring those back into service,” NTA chief executive Anne Graham said on Friday.

"Ms Graham said she expected the longer trams would return to full service in May"

How can you have a "Fault in the System", not know what it is, but be able to give fix date? Do they expect O'Connell Bridge grow in length by 5 meters in two months time?

AlekSmart

Tow wrote: »

As I expected, they were not being run during rush hour.


Summary:

"Longer Luas trams withdrawn due to fault in system."

“Every effort is being made to identify what that fault is and to bring those back into service,” NTA chief executive Anne Graham said on Friday.

"Ms Graham said she expected the longer trams would return to full service in May"

How can you have a "Fault in the System", not know what it is, but be able to give fix date? Do they expect O'Connell Bridge grow in length by 5 meters in two months time?

It is now apparent that there are significant issues with the Cross-City Project which have yet to become public.

I would be unsurprised if,over the long weekend,the shredders in Dún Scéine,Civic Offices and the Red Cow do not become white-hot from overuse.

Given the current,and what we now now,well flagged and questioned situation in Dublin City Centre,the reality of people demanding answers from previously low key and reticent backroom staff is upon them.

The primary purpose in the short-term,will be to limit the damage in PR terms,whilst preserving the credibility of the higher levels of management who presided over and directed the Cross City Project into the siding it currently occupies.

Perhaps,at this point,some form of truce is required,as the actual damage in real terms is largely done and unrepairable in economic terms.

What would be of some assistance in moving things forward,is the resignation of several of the individuals who occupied the responsible positions over the past decade,and their replacement with foreign management of externally proven capabilities.

What is now largely uncontestable,is that our own Senior Managerial figures across the disciplines have not performed their duties to any acceptable professional standards,but are rather incredibly immune from any calling-to-account for this.

This fiasco has long passed the point where it can be rescued by a Terry Prone style PR blitz.....;)

My personal preference would be the arrival of an EU imposed "Troika" figure such as Manuel Melis...Micheal O Leary...or ANYBODY not connected with the individuals and groups who have presided over this project.

AlekSmart

Tow wrote: »

As I expected, they were not being run during rush hour.


Summary:

"Longer Luas trams withdrawn due to fault in system."

“Every effort is being made to identify what that fault is and to bring those back into service,” NTA chief executive Anne Graham said on Friday.

"Ms Graham said she expected the longer trams would return to full service in May"

How can you have a "Fault in the System", not know what it is, but be able to give fix date? Do they expect O'Connell Bridge grow in length by 5 meters in two months time?

The choice of wording is interesting....

Is it a fault in the Tram as delivered ?

Is it a fault in the Luas system on which the new Tram operates ?

This has all the appearances of an issue which will see LUAS requiring a new Depot AT The Four Courts.

Good job it's being announced at a Long Weekend......;)

TheHouseIRL

Tow wrote: »

As I expected, they were not being run during rush hour.

They were absolutely being run during rush hour. 5028 broke down on O'Connell street at approximately 5:45, 5027 broke down at Dundrum the next day at around 6:30.

Idbatterim

I'm just waiting for the same stupid f**ckers responsible for this, to do a repeat job on NMN! 60m platforms, the works! I really think no Irish involvement would be best (hundreds of fools, millions of euro, endless talking, no or **** results) let the Germans, Spanish or Japanese etc design and build it!

AlekSmart

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm just waiting for the same stupid f**ckers responsible for this, to do a repeat job on NMN! 60m platforms, the works! I really think no Irish involvement would be best (hundreds of fools, millions of euro, endless talking, no or **** results) let the Germans, Spanish or Japanese etc design and build it!

100% Agree on this.

The problem we now face is that our current cast of actors will be promoted and thereby allowed far greater reign over even larger projects.

It is imperative,at this point,to prevent these people from progressing further until they can be subject to some form of special re-assessment in their respective disciplines.

This re-assessment should be carried out by outside compliance specialization agencies and it needs to be carried out ASAP.

The danger now,is that the Ireland 2040 Project,with it's vast amount of funding will be placed in the hands of,what we now KNOW are highly suspect individuals.

GM228

AlekSmart wrote: »

The choice of wording is interesting....

Is it a fault in the Tram as delivered ?

Is it a fault in the Luas system on which the new Tram operates ?

This has all the appearances of an issue which will see LUAS requiring a new Depot AT The Four Courts.

Good job it's being announced at a Long Weekend......;)

Anne Graham was speaking on the radio and she said it's a fault with the new trams.

No doubt a fault which has only cropped up as a result of the two 55m tram failures and probably a software/manufacturer issue, no doubt Alstom has provided the we will fix it by date.

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

Anne Graham was speaking on the radio and she said it's a fault with the new trams.

No doubt a fault which has only cropped up as a result of the two 55m tram failures and probably a software/manufacturer issue, no doubt Alstom has provided the we will fix it by date.

Phew sez Anne....thank God for the oul Warranty

Tow

AlekSmart wrote: »

The choice of wording is interesting....

Is it a fault in the Tram as delivered ?

Is it a fault in the Luas system on which the new Tram operates ?

I read 'The System' is not the tram its self, but the within the whole system.

There are many other areas within 'The System', such as :
The ability stop traffic on both sides of bridges at the same time.
The ability to deliver enough electrical power for more power hungry trams, which is why they have two Pantographs in the first place.

BTW, There will be no one taken to account for their mistakes, this is a the public sector project.

devnull

As stated previously this is the longest ever built version of the tram model family built exclusively for Dublin. So it's no surprise there will be more issues with it than previous tried and tested versions.

GM228

AlekSmart wrote: »

One question which the clip does raise,is which of the Trams is disabled...the New lengthened 5027,or the older 5007 ?

5028 (not 5027) failed and 5007 was assisting.

The following day 5027 also failed in Dundrum and was assisted by 5013 in the same way with 5027 leading the consist back to the depot.

Jamie2k9

There was another apparent failure the following day, no detail on what tram involved at Sillorgan.

bk

The above comments about brining in foreign expertise, I don't see how that would help.

If you are talking about the breakdowns, well those trams were designed and built by a foreign company and are operated by a foreign company.

And in fairness to both Alstom and Transdev, until now, they have both built and operated Luas rock solidly. As others have said above, most likely the bugs that come with the first of any new system.

If you are talking about the mess of College Green, well foreign management expertise would simply face the same local issues of the car park owners, taxi drivers, city councillors, planning process, legal system, etc.

I'm of the opinion that the only way to fix that is by fixing our entire planning and legal system to better handle these sort of massive infrastructure developments. See the Apple Datacenter as another example.

I think overall, we are still feeling the effects of the recession. The problems with Luas are most likely because we are trying to squeeze too much out of the system, when had it not been for the recession we would have Metro North by now and well on our way to DU, which would have both handled this pressure much better.

hmmm

bk wrote: »

If you are talking about the mess of College Green, well foreign management expertise would simply face the same local issues of the car park owners, taxi drivers, city councillors, planning process, legal system, etc.

Agreed. Someone decided it was fine to launch LUAS before capacity was in place, and that can only have been a political decision.

There's a reason project managers are employed, so that issues like capacity and testing is given appropriate time within a project plan.

I think it's unfair to be dragging in the operator or even Alstom to explain what is going on, they were the ones thrown a hospital pass. I find criticism from DCC councillors to be very self-serving. It seems no-one was willing to stand up and say "stop".

Now of course we're in an awful mess. The Green Line in particular is arguably non-functional, and it will be at least May before it is sorted. The Minister should be doing his job and getting involved.

Stephen15

howiya wrote: »

New trams withdrawn

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/longer-luas-trams-withdrawn-due-to-fault-in-system-1.3429510

Hopefully they wont end up like the DART 8200 class an expensive waste of money.

IE 222

Too many chiefs not enough Indians.

All these decision-makers are just public representatives with zero experience, vision and completely clueless in regards to transport planning. Imagine what it would be like if the Ellis Quay cycle lane was thrown into the mix as well.

This is only the start of these problems it will be at least 5 -7 years before traffic problems will be resolved. A few extra buses and a Metro between the city and airport won't fix Dublin's problems. These projects were needed 15 years ago, the population will grow rapidly over the next 10 years. Regardless of the city centre problems one area of improvement I'd expected to see would of been a reduction of congestion around the Cabra area but that to seems to of gotten worse since the introduction of Luas.

NTA aren't experts and are just as useless as the rest of them. Some people may laugh at the idea of asking some of our current transport providers/operators such as Irish Rail, who have teams of experts in rail operations, for advice or consulting with them on how to implement new projects or if they might forsee any issues. They would have a lot more knowledge and experience than the likes of Anne Graham, DCC and Shane Ross. Local knowledge is much more important than a fancy forgien expert and I believe the Bus Connects project is another disaster coming down the line.

zom

Tow wrote: »

As I expected, they were not being run during rush hour.

What about using 55m Luas trams during rush hours but terminate on Stephens Green / Dominick, same way as planned tomorrow for Paddy's Day? Most people travel just to city centre, and the others can walk or take short Luas instead?

Phil.x

So they've scrapped them, unsurprisingly.

Infini

Maybe they'd be better off putting those long trams on the Red Line and robbing a few trams from the Red Cow depot to take their place. Doesnt seem like a good idea to be running them on the green line with their arse hanging out behind them when caught at the lights right?

wally79

Why not go back to the old green line terminating at Stephens green and have the extension as a separate line

People could transfer at Stephens green and the whole green line service isn’t destroyed by cross city issues

devnull

Infini wrote: »

Maybe they'd be better off putting those long trams on the Red Line and robbing a few trams from the Red Cow depot to take their place. Doesnt seem like a good idea to be running them on the green line with their arse hanging out behind them when caught at the lights right?

As far as I'm aware they will not fit the platforms on the red line.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

As far as I'm aware they will not fit the platforms on the red line.

Indeed they would cause even more problems on Red Line. The few time they have been caught in traffic is because of motorists blocking boxes or cutting in front preventing them getting the clear run. They signals reset if a tram doesn't pass when cleared after period of time hence the wait.

Why not go back to the old green line terminating at Stephens green and have the extension as a separate line

People could transfer at Stephens green and the whole green line service isn’t destroyed by cross city issues

Lack of trams to maintain both lines separably hence the current problems not the actual lines.

Stephen15

The 54m are a waste of time I don't know why more regular length trams weren't ordered for the service. It seems that the NTA were sort of pissing around and experimenting with new types of trams when it came to building what should be a critical piece of infrastructure.

What they should have been done in my opinion would have been either 54m trams before BXD opened on the Green Line between Brides Glen and SSG to make they actually work for a start and then done test runs on the BXD stretch or just order normal length trams with the option to upgrade them to 54m at a later date if demand dictates.

I dont think it's really acceptable what's happened here TII should have just played it safe and ordered regular length trams from the start now both TII and the NTA are suffering along with passengers. If regular length trams were ordered then passengers could benefit from increased capacity on the lines to ease the current overcrowding and frequency issues we are seeing maintaining the same frequency as was previous on the Green Line.

These trams are un-tested and completely un-proven. TII and the NTA were naive and foolish to order these trams. There is a very real possibility these could end like the 82000 DART class another Alstom product might I add sitting around in storage rotting away for the next god knows how long millions of euro down the drain and it all could have been prevented if the NTA and TII took a more cautious approach and ordered regular length trams.

Jamie2k9

Stephen15 wrote: »

The 54m are a waste of time I don't know why more regular length trams weren't ordered for the service. It seems that the NTA were sort of pissing around and experimenting with new types of trams when it came to building what should be a critical piece of infrastructure.

What they should have been done in my opinion would have been either 54m trams before BXD opened on the Green Line between Brides Glen and SSG to make they actually work for a start and then done test runs on the BXD stretch or just order normal length trams with the option to upgrade them to 54m at a later date if demand dictates.

I dont think it's really acceptable what's happened here TII should have just played it safe and ordered regular length trams from the start now both TII and the NTA are suffering along with passengers. If regular length trams were ordered then passengers could benefit from increased capacity on the lines to ease the current overcrowding and frequency issues we are seeing maintaining the same frequency as was previous on the Green Line.

These trams are un-tested and completely un-proven. TII and the NTA were naive and foolish to order these trams. There is a very real possibility these could end like the 82000 DART class another Alstom product might I add sitting around in storage rotting away for the next god knows how long millions of euro down the drain and it all could have been prevented if the NTA and TII took a more cautious approach and ordered regular length trams.

Longer trams are a good idea, yes they are new type however the real issue here is the unprecedented pressure applied by the NTA and Goverment to open when Transdev were not expecting to open and I suspect they were under pressure to put longer trams into use early which was needed but the late delivery wasn't acceptable.

I'm sure this is only a minor fault and will be rectified soon, many will remember the first ever tram on the Green Line suffered a door defect on the launch service even after all that testing.

end of the road

Phil.x wrote: »

So they've scrapped them, unsurprisingly.

no just withdrawn temporarily while they find out what the issues are with them.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

both TII and the NTA are suffering along with passengers. .

TII and the NTA are getting paid handsomely, no suffering for them.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

TII and the NTA were naive and foolish to order these trams.

We are lucky TII and the NTA are full of people who are seasoned experts in transport.
Imaging how bad things would be if they where staffed with people who only got the job because of the people they know, jobs for the boys.

Vronsky

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is now apparent that there are significant issues with the Cross-City Project which have yet to become public.

I would be unsurprised if,over the long weekend,the shredders in Dún Scéine,Civic Offices and the Red Cow do not become white-hot from overuse.

Given the current,and what we now now,well flagged and questioned situation in Dublin City Centre,the reality of people demanding answers from previously low key and reticent backroom staff is upon them.

The primary purpose in the short-term,will be to limit the damage in PR terms,whilst preserving the credibility of the higher levels of management who presided over and directed the Cross City Project into the siding it currently occupies.

Perhaps,at this point,some form of truce is required,as the actual damage in real terms is largely done and unrepairable in economic terms.

What would be of some assistance in moving things forward,is the resignation of several of the individuals who occupied the responsible positions over the past decade,and their replacement with foreign management of externally proven capabilities.

What is now largely uncontestable,is that our own Senior Managerial figures across the disciplines have not performed their duties to any acceptable professional standards,but are rather incredibly immune from any calling-to-account for this.

This fiasco has long passed the point where it can be rescued by a Terry Prone style PR blitz.....;)

My personal preference would be the arrival of an EU imposed "Troika" figure such as Manuel Melis...Micheal O Leary...or ANYBODY not connected with the individuals and groups who have presided over this project.

What nonsense is this? It typically takes a year for a new tram system to bed in. I can't see what good firing people will do. But the armchair transport planners know best.

Largely unrepairable economic damage? You're not one for the hyperbole now are you?

magicbastarder

Phil.x wrote: »

So they've scrapped them, unsurprisingly.

i'm not sure 'repairing' is equivalent to 'scrapping', surely?

AlekSmart

Vronsky wrote: »

What nonsense is this? It typically takes a year for a new tram system to bed in. I can't see what good firing people will do. But the armchair transport planners know best.

Largely unrepairable economic damage? You're not one for the hyperbole now are you?

Hyperbole is a versatile element,it can even cover accusations of nonsense.

It is interesting that,for this purpose,the Cross City Line is defined as a "New Tram System",rather than the extension of the long established one with over 30 Million regular customers.

Prior to the arrival of the Longer Trams,the existing infrastructure appeared to be well capable of operating without more than a few days of "Running in-Please Pass"

The armchair transport planners,in Dublin terms,tend to be somewhat more focused and realistic in their views,and most certainly appear far better connected to the Customer Base,than many of the Higher Echelon executives apparently deserving of a Pass on the current fiasco.

The top-line group,I see as culpable in all of this,have had long careers of,it has to be said,mediocrity behind them.
Caught in the middle of this,are a legion of highly competent,innovative and enthusiastic engineers,planners and hands on staff,many of whom will never get a nod of appreciation,for the graft they put in as they attempt to impose some order on the ever increasing volumes of craziness,dropping daily onto their desks from above.

In the absence of any official recognition,or admission,that the current situation was well flagged,with appropriate warnings,and questions raised some years back,then sanctioning and/or dismissing,those responsible for ignoring these warnings is,to my mind,a fair and equitable response.

What alternative would you propose ?

bebeman

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hyperbole is a versatile element,it can even cover accusations of nonsense.

It is interesting that,for this purpose,the Cross City Line is defined as a "New Tram System",rather than the extension of the long established one with over 30 Million regular customers.

Prior to the arrival of the Longer Trams,the existing infrastructure appeared to be well capable of operating without more than a few days of "Running in-Please Pass"

The armchair transport planners,in Dublin terms,tend to be somewhat more focused and realistic in their views,and most certainly appear far better connected to the Customer Base,than many of the Higher Echelon executives apparently deserving of a Pass on the current fiasco.

The top-line group,I see as culpable in all of this,have had long careers of,it has to be said,mediocrity behind them.
Caught in the middle of this,are a legion of highly competent,innovative and enthusiastic engineers,planners and hands on staff,many of whom will never get a nod of appreciation,for the graft they put in as they attempt to impose some order on the ever increasing volumes of craziness,dropping daily onto their desks from above.

In the absence of any official recognition,or admission,that the current situation was well flagged,with appropriate warnings,and questions raised some years back,then sanctioning and/or dismissing,those responsible for ignoring these warnings is,to my mind,a fair and equitable response.

What alternative would you propose ?

We know the government was/is using Tax payer money to spend on PR for the 2040 infrastructure project, i wonder is some of that money is spent here on posters praising the NTA and denying the chaos in city centre?

Phil.x

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm not sure 'repairing' is equivalent to 'scrapping', surely?

You've got to read inbetween the lines, it's politician's talk, they won't be back.

end of the road

Phil.x wrote: »

You've got to read inbetween the lines, it's politician's talk, they won't be back.

they will be back. given the Citadis platform is reliable over all then i'd imagine whatever the issue is it's easily solved.

Vronsky

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hyperbole is a versatile element,it can even cover accusations of nonsense.

It is interesting that,for this purpose,the Cross City Line is defined as a "New Tram System",rather than the extension of the long established one with over 30 Million regular customers.

Prior to the arrival of the Longer Trams,the existing infrastructure appeared to be well capable of operating without more than a few days of "Running in-Please Pass"

The armchair transport planners,in Dublin terms,tend to be somewhat more focused and realistic in their views,and most certainly appear far better connected to the Customer Base,than many of the Higher Echelon executives apparently deserving of a Pass on the current fiasco.

The top-line group,I see as culpable in all of this,have had long careers of,it has to be said,mediocrity behind them.
Caught in the middle of this,are a legion of highly competent,innovative and enthusiastic engineers,planners and hands on staff,many of whom will never get a nod of appreciation,for the graft they put in as they attempt to impose some order on the ever increasing volumes of craziness,dropping daily onto their desks from above.

In the absence of any official recognition,or admission,that the current situation was well flagged,with appropriate warnings,and questions raised some years back,then sanctioning and/or dismissing,those responsible for ignoring these warnings is,to my mind,a fair and equitable response.

What alternative would you propose ?

It is both a new tram system and an extension of an old one. It took the red line well over a year to bed in when it opened and it is only partially street running. Luas cross city is almost entirely non segregated and I would expect it will take even longer than a year for thing to settle. A year is the international norm btw for bedding in of new light rail lines.

Armchair planners have the luxury of ignoring the constraining parameters that essentially force decisions to go a certain way. The Luas green line was at/over capacity only a few years after opening and successively longer and longer trams have been introduced to cope with this. There are only two ways to increase capacity on a tram line - reduce headway (I believe the minimum headway on Luas is 3mins) or increase tram length. Reducing headway to say 1 min is not feasible in the city for two reasons - too much interaction with other traffic, and the luas infrastructure is not capable of those headways without upgrading of signaling and power supplies.

Extensions of Luas lines do not add capacity, but add demand. This is why longer trams were required. And are still required.

I don't see how dismissing anyone solves anything.

prinzeugen

Tow wrote: »

The ability to deliver enough electrical power for more power hungry trams, which is why they have two Pantographs in the first place.

Having two pantographs does not double the power. The supply will always be 750v DC at x thousands of amps regardless if you use one or two pantos.

The second one is probably a spare. Having both up would cause issues at neutral sections.

zom

end of the road wrote: »

they will be back. given the Citadis platform is reliable over all then i'd imagine whatever the issue is it's easily solved.

Still can't find any other example of Citadis set containing 4 suspended cars
(and I presume 4 motorised cars) like our new 55m trams. There are 60m long sets operating in Israel and Morocco but they are simply made of two 30m trams joined and operated together. Can number of motor bogies in 55m set be a problem for Alstom systems ?

end of the road

zom wrote: »

Still can't find any other example of Citadis set containing 4 suspended cars
(and I presume 4 motorised cars) lie our new 55mtrams. There are 60m long sets operating in Israel and Morocco but they are simply made of two 30m trams joined and operated together. Can number of motors in 55m set be a problem for Alstom systems ?

i don't know tbh, it's probably impossible to know for definite given these are the first 55m varient of the citadis platform.

devnull

Phil.x wrote: »

You've got to read inbetween the lines, it's politician's talk, they won't be back.

There's no way they'll be scraped, that's hyperbolic to the extreme, there's just teething issues since it's the first time Alstom have built a tram so long in the Citadis family as it's a unique build for Dublin, which will always mean it will be more prone to issues at first than tried and tested lengths that have been built hundreds if not thousands of times.

zom wrote: »

Still can't find any other example of Citadis set containing 4 suspended cars (and I presume 4 motorised cars) like our new 55m trams. There are 60m long sets operating in Israel and Morocco but they are simply made of two 30m trams joined and operated together. Can number of motor bogies in 55m set be a problem for Alstom systems ?

These are a custom build for Dublin and are approx 10m longer than any other Citadis models that have previously been built by Alstom.

dowlingm

Ottawa has received 50m Citadis variants but they are still in testing as the light rail line is still under construction, so I haven't heard adverse reports on them as yet.