Werewolf game size and frequency discussion thread

Baggly

I do think it might be useful to have a discussion around size of game vs frequency of game, if there is consistently high demand from a lot of players/players are repeatedly missing out on games.

Its grand to just increase the size of the game, but that comes with risks in balancing, as well as dropouts.

And i think everyone would welcome such a discussion. At the moment, however, its been a long time since we had any subs in any games, and every game has been as full as the game mods could manage, so i think its useful to see how this game will go with subs in the Ted game

Triceratops Ballet

Pter wrote: »

I do think it might be useful to have a discussion around size of game vs frequency of game, if there is consistently high demand from a lot of players/players are repeatedly missing out on games.

Its grand to just increase the size of the game, but that comes with risks in balancing, as well as dropouts.

And i think everyone would welcome such a discussion. At the moment, however, its been a long time since we had any subs in any games, and every game has been as full as the game mods could manage, so i think its useful to see how this game will go with subs.

This game, however, will be 20 players for sure. We really dont wanna rebuild it or change it at this stage.

I think that's fair enough Pter, I think it's good to have smaller games too. Big games are demanding on the mods and I think it's totally up to them how many players they can/want to handle at a time.

I also think it's going to be interesting in terms of how it plays out. I think sometimes the village can think oh sure we've 20+ villagers we can afford a few mistakes, and then it just turns into lynch by numbers which is kinda dull, a smaller village team will mean the village can afford to be less complacent!

Necro

Pter wrote: »

I do think it might be useful to have a discussion around size of game vs frequency of game, if there is consistently high demand from a lot of players/players are repeatedly missing out on games.

Its grand to just increase the size of the game, but that comes with risks in balancing, as well as dropouts.

And i think everyone would welcome such a discussion. At the moment, however, its been a long time since we had any subs in any games, and every game has been as full as the game mods could manage, so i think its useful to see how this game will go with subs.

This game, however, will be 20 players for sure. We really dont wanna rebuild it or change it at this stage.

Yeah I think I alluded to this previously in sully's discussion thread. I think there's a growing appetite for more frequency in the amount of games played.
This game aside, which is built for 20 players and definitely a move in the right direction imo - I've been banging a drum about increasing the frequency of live games for some of the forum regulars who maybe can't commit to a full game.

However - and here in my opinion is the stickler.

To increase the amount of games and therefore include more players in that manner, we need a larger amount of game mods.
Modding a game is every bit as rewarding as playing for me, sometimes even moreso and to grow the forum even further, it would be great to see others give running a game a whirl.

I have no problem making myself available to anyone nervous about backroom permissions, game balancing etc for any first time mods who have an idea and wish to share it with the community.

I see no reason why 2 15/20 person games can't be run each month, along with live games.

Triceratops Ballet

Necrominus wrote: »

Yeah I think I alluded to this previously in sully's discussion thread. I think there's a growing appetite for more frequency in the amount of games played.
This game aside, which is built for 20 players and definitely a move in the right direction imo - I've been banging a drum about increasing the frequency of live games for some of the forum regulars who maybe can't commit to a full game.

However - and here in my opinion is the stickler.

To increase the amount of games and therefore include more players in that manner, we need a larger amount of game mods.
Modding a game is every bit as rewarding as playing for me, sometimes even moreso and to grow the forum even further, it would be great to see others give running a game a whirl.

I have no problem making myself available to anyone nervous about backroom permissions, game balancing etc for any first time mods who have an idea and wish to share it with the community.

I see no reason why 2 15/20 person games can't be run each month, along with live games.

I've no problem modding more often either, I'm actually hoping to change jobs soon and if that happens I might not be able to commit to playing to the same extent as before but could definitely make time for modding.

Baggly

Necrominus wrote: »

Yeah I think I alluded to this previously in sully's discussion thread. I think there's a growing appetite for more frequency in the amount of games played.
This game aside, which is built for 20 players and definitely a move in the right direction imo - I've been banging a drum about increasing the frequency of live games for some of the forum regulars who maybe can't commit to a full game.

However - and here in my opinion is the stickler.

To increase the amount of games and therefore include more players in that manner, we need a larger amount of game mods.
Modding a game is every bit as rewarding as playing for me, sometimes even moreso and to grow the forum even further, it would be great to see others give running a game a whirl.

I have no problem making myself available to anyone nervous about backroom permissions, game balancing etc for any first time mods who have an idea and wish to share it with the community.

I see no reason why 2 15/20 person games can't be run each month, along with live games.

Yeah it was the 2 smaller 12-15 person games per month that i was thinking of. We do one per month/every 6 weeks or so at the moment, but no reason i can see that it couldnt be more frequent if there are people there willing to mod the games.

Fire up a quick game now necro. I’m bored and not drunk

Triceratops Ballet

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Fire up a quick game now necro. I’m bored and not drunk

was gonna suggest popcorn but I'm locked out of discord, my 2fa app is on my old phone

Necro

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I've no problem modding more often either, I'm actually hoping to change jobs soon and if that happens I might not be able to commit to playing to the same extent as before but could definitely make time for modding.

It wasn't a jibe btw, TB - you mod a lot here and have produced some great games. I was more appealing for new mods in the frame of the last few games - trit, Lough, Kolido, raze - partyjungle in the game after this. Duffman has kindly put himself forward to help you folk out too and that is a massive positive for the community instead of Necro/Pter/TB/Molly/Digi/Beaker modding every game.

Necro

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Fire up a quick game now necro. I’m bored and not drunk

:pac::pac: I'd love to but I'm off to bed in an hour, working nights tonight

Baggly

Necrominus wrote: »

It wasn't a jibe btw, TB - you mod a lot here and have produced some great games. I was more appealing for new mods in the frame of the last few games - trit, Lough, Kolido, raze - partyjungle in the game after this. Duffman has kindly put himself forward to help you folk out too and that is a massive positive for the community instead of Necro/Pter/TB/Molly/Digi/Beaker modding every game.

God i hate when those guys mod.

Triceratops Ballet

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

was gonna suggest popcorn but I'm locked out of discord, my 2fa app is on my old phone

Can you not download the app on your new phone?

Popcorn mafia tonight at 6ish I think that’s what Mick said over there?

beakerjoe

Necrominus wrote: »

It wasn't a jibe btw, TB - you mod a lot here and have produced some great games. I was more appealing for new mods in the frame of the last few games - trit, Lough, Kolido, raze - partyjungle in the game after this. Duffman has kindly put himself forward to help you folk out too and that is a massive positive for the community instead of Necro/Pter/TB/Molly/Digi/Beaker modding every game.

Ive modded one game, but sure lump me in with the veterans.

Necro

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ive modded one game, but sure lump me in with the veterans.

Ok, fair enough but you're down for two upcoming games :P

Mollyb60

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ive modded one game, but sure lump me in with the veterans.

Yeah this is only my second time modding and I broke COP the first time so don't put me in that group. :pac:

Triceratops Ballet

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ive modded one game, but sure lump me in with the veterans.

Yeah I've only modded 2 too! number 3 this year! hoping to break my curse (soz Pter)

Necro

Fine, my veterans list has flaws. Everyone's a critic :pac:

Baggly

I did a count Necro and the top of the pops for modding are yourself, sully, Jayop (sigh), Mrs FD.

Baggly

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Yeah I've only modded 2 too! number 3 this year! hoping to break my curse (soz Pter)

Curse?

Triceratops Ballet

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Can you not download the app on your new phone?

Popcorn mafia tonight at 6ish I think that’s what Mick said over there?

I can but my login needs 2fa, I don't think I downloaded the list of codes

Necro

Pter wrote: »

I did a count Necro and the top of the pops for modding are yourself, sully, Jayop (sigh), Mrs FD.

That's cos I've got OCD regarding WW:o:o:o

Triceratops Ballet

Pter wrote: »

Curse?

you can't back out now comrade!

Romeo and Juliet had a no show serial killer and I think might be the game that pushed Stoogie to the brink, and Community, well need I say more?

CURSED I TELLS YA!!

Triceratops Ballet

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I can but my login needs 2fa, I don't think I downloaded the list of codes

I don’t know what that means but could you make a new username/account?

Necro

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

you can't back out now comrade!

Romeo and Juliet had a no show serial killer and I think might be the game that pushed Stoogie to the brink, and Community, well need I say more?

CURSED I TELLS YA!!

You'll both be grand, you've got a third:

Baggly

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

you can't back out now comrade!

Romeo and Juliet had a no show serial killer and I think might be the game that pushed Stoogie to the brink, and Community, well need I say more?

CURSED I TELLS YA!!

You didnt mention this when we agreed to do the game......


:pac:


Be grand.

Kolido

Don't mind helping out on the modding side if anyone wants. I have 2 under my belt so I guess that means I'm almost at retirement stage according to Necro! :pac:

beakerjoe

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

you can't back out now comrade!

Romeo and Juliet had a no show serial killer and I think might be the game that pushed Stoogie to the brink, and Community, well need I say more?

CURSED I TELLS YA!!

Jump on board to myself and Necros June game, i need a fallguy for when it all goes wrong

Digital Solitude

Last time didn't suit Necro but I'd be up for running vanilla nightlies, if we were to go monthly to start we could see how interest was?

Re capping numbers, leave it up to individual mods anyways, I'm pretty sure we've had capped games here before, and there's nothing stopping players signing up as subs if they want.

I suppose it comes down to individuals but I'd prefer to keep our monthly large game as however the mods like and then run a secondary, smaller game if people are about. I'm not sure if we could do large games week on week off, and saying we're going to do two smaller games a month is unfair on mods too.

Loughc

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Last time didn't suit Necro but I'd be up for running vanilla nightlies, if we were to go monthly to start we could see how interest was?

Re capping numbers, leave it up to individual mods anyways, I'm pretty sure we've had capped games here before, and there's nothing stopping players signing up as subs if they want.

I suppose it comes down to individuals but I'd prefer to keep our monthly large game as however the mods like and then run a secondary, smaller game if people are about. I'm not sure if we could do large games week on week off, and saying we're going to do two smaller games a month is unfair on mods too.

I like the idea of vanilla secondary games, especially to bridge the gap between the main games. And it gives the mods for the main games more scope to say spaces are limited with subs.

Could you not do a lottery type thing for capped number games? Everyone who wants in express their interest, pull names out of hat and the rest on the subs bench?

I think I’ll soon be ready to pop my mod berry. But I do use the internet 99% of the time via my phone

Necro

Agree with Digi actually, some excellent points.

And put me down as player for next live game, I've modded the last two :P

MOD: Discussing live games in light of the next game is ok, but please no cross promotion of other threads in the forum.

Digital Solitude

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I think I’ll soon be ready to pop my mod berry. But I do use the internet 99% of the time via my phone

I modded the last game off my phone, COP is a pain but if you take 15 mins to familiarise how to use it off a phone you'll be okay.

The lynch vote is a balls, get a co mod or use a draw over like NinjaSMS or Facebook messenger (I don't know how this works on iOS though) so you can see the votes and type them out at the same time.

Monthly nightlies might be a good way to blood new mods too to be fair, I'll stick up a post in the mod queue.

Digital Solitude

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Could you not do a lottery type thing for capped number games? Everyone who wants in express their interest, pull names out of hat and the rest on the subs bench?

Is it really fairer than first come first served? With a spot or two for newbies.

For me though, I think it's unfair to say our games at capped at 20 or whatever, if I want to run a game with 30+ do I need special permission or can I just do it?

Baggly

Digital Solitude wrote:

For me though, I think it's unfair to say our games at capped at 20 or whatever, if I want to run a game with 30+ do I need special permission or can I just do it?

This isn't what I was suggesting btw. It's more a team of mods says when they book their game in 'we wanna do a smaller game, does anyone else wanna run another smaller one the same month' or a team of mods says 'we wanna run two smaller games that month'

Necro

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Is it really fairer than first come first served? With a spot or two for newbies.

For me though, I think it's unfair to say our games at capped at 20 or whatever, if I want to run a game with 30+ do I need special permission or can I just do it?

Yeah look the numbers should be entirely a mods decision imo, there's nothing to say you have to cap a game or have to have 30+ players and that should still be totally the game mods decision.

First come first served is the fairest way with capped sign ups as well sadly.

Baggly

MOD: This discussion is definitely worth having imo, but it shouldn't take over this sign up thread. Gonna create a new thread and move the posts.

Baggly

Snipity snip

Mollyb60

Check out Modly Pter, flexing his mod muscles.

Make set numbers games as a lottery system not first come first served.

The_Valeyard

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Check out Modly Pter, flexing his mod muscles.

Lets beat him with sticks!!

Hey stop moving stuff vlad!

Baggly

Strawberry Milkshake wrote:

Hey stop moving stuff vlad!

All done

Banjo

The current system 1 week on, 1 week off, 1 week hype, 1 week signup super hype. Seems ok.

Game size should dictate the pace. Having a game run over into week 2 means that a large amount of the player base are not playing, and will be waiting longer for their next fix. It also impacts other games on the site since you people are loony for this game at the exclusion of all else *ahem Deadlands*. 1 and done, whether it's 8 people or 80.

If tightly balanced games have to have fixed numbers of players, priority in the next game should be given to those who were cut, then subs, assuming that people didn't volunteer for the chop / subs bench purely for their own convenience.

There's no reason you can't have a game running every week, other than player burn-out and mod burn-out. And those are two terrible things you should be looking to avoid at all costs.
But you could, for example, run "mod academy" games in 2nd week after a "main" game where new players get to run cut-down games for experience using the back rooms and handling players, or where you test out new mechanics ideas, etc etc. Meanwhile the worst of the addicts get their fix.

The_Valeyard

I just do not have free time to mod a game until the Summer, then should be able to take over one.

I do think however, that maybe a notice or warning about limited spaces should be told in advance or do a lottery system if a game is in heavy demand.

Necro

Banjo wrote:

There's no reason you can't have a game running every week, other than player burn-out and mod burn-out. And those are two terrible things you should be looking to avoid at all costs. But you could, for example, run "mod academy" games in 2nd week after a "main" game where new players get to run cut-down games for experience using the back rooms and handling players, or where you test out new mechanics ideas, etc etc. Meanwhile the worst of the addicts get their fix.

What are you implying Banjo :pac: Two games in one week was not enough for me :P

Mod academy is an excellent idea, jokes about Necro's addictive personality aside.

Necro

The_Valeyard wrote:

I do think however, that maybe a notice or warning about limited spaces should be told in advance or do a lottery system if a game is in heavy demand.

That's a very fair point actually.

Kolido

Backroom admin would be a nightmare if you were running weekly games, unless there was an alternative to cop.

Mollyb60

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I do think however, that maybe a notice or warning about limited spaces should be told in advance or do a lottery system if a game is in heavy demand.

Where would you suggest we put this notice or warning? We could make a sticky I guess but I thought that was the point of the 'There's a new game of WW starting soon' thread? Apart from PM'ing everyone ever involved in a previous game I think it would be quite difficult to do this.

Digital Solitude

Kolido wrote: »

Backroom admin would be a nightmare if you were running weekly games, unless there was an alternative to cop.

Discord would work, I've a server on the way hopefully so if that comes to fruition I'll add a BB forum same as COP if needed.

Necro I get your point better now, that does sound fair but should be sorted in advance.

Baggly

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Necro I get your point better now, that does sound fair but should be sorted in advance.

Necro?

Digital Solitude

Pter wrote: »

Necro?

Necrominus? He posts here a good bit

I get your point too Pete