Cyclist hits dog, sues.

deandean

An interesting court case here, its the first time I have heard of a cyclist taking an action against the owner of a dog after the dog ran out from a driveway and caused the cyclist to hit the deck:
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/cyclist-who-claims-he-cant-run-or-cycle-after-collision-with-dog-settles-action-against-owners-36685185.html
Twice I've had serious encounters with dogs when out cycling. Fortunately I didn't suffer significant injuries either time. Both times it was a black and white border collie, same as in the case above. That particular breed seems to have a disposition towards causing trouble for cyclists.

secman

That particular breed seems to have a disposition towards causing trouble for cyclists.[/quote]

It's in their DNA to chase sheep and cyclists, have had to sprint from many a collie, there's a couple of them at Lisheen rise on the outskirts of manor kilbride that fit that description, thankfully the owner doesn't seem to let them down as much these days....... tempting fate here ?

Something similar happened to me coming down a hill in wicklow and I spent a night in Vincents because of it.

I was told to consider legal action but I subsequently found the dog was of limited means and was unlikely to be capable of paying.

Greybottle

Following talks between the parties, Mr Justice Cross was told the case could be struck out.

Seems he was hurt in another accident a few months later.

Either way the dog was not under control, so it should be a warning to other dog owners. FWIW a nephew of my neighbour sued for damage done to his car when he hit and killed a dog that ran out in front of him. The insurance company paid out, think it was around €2,000.

ford2600

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/section/21/enacted/en/html#sec21

ted1

I narrowly avoided a similar incident with a grey squirrel coming down long hill from roundwood.
Animals are a nuisance

Ferris

Always interesting when tanking down the Clontarf cycleway and some careful dog owner lets their beloved run across your path on one of those inertia reel leads....

Would be an interesting case.

HugoMyBoss

deandean wrote: »

That particular breed seems to have a disposition towards causing trouble for cyclists.

Do you wear wool when you cycle?

Lumen

Magic number strikes again.

The dog, he said, ran to his friend but Mr Reilly who was doing about 30 Kilometres per hour hit the dog and went over the handlebars.
...
Following talks between the parties, Mr Justice Cross was told the case could be struck out.

Tip: when jumping the compo train, you must pick a speed of at most 29kph.

mrs.doubt.fire

Believe it or not...but the law in Ireland clearly states that your dog while on your own property must have a collar and tags and in a secure area that it can not leave your property. When your dog is off your property, that's then considered that your dog is in a public area, again the law clearly states that your dog must be on a leash when in a public place. So yes, if a dog regardless if its on a leash or not and it runs out in front of a car or a bicycle and causes damage, the owner of the dog IS liable to pay damages.

Also....if your at home and cattle or horses stray onto your property and IF you run them out and off your property, YOU are liable for any damage or accidents they may cause simply because YOU ran them from off your property (even though you dont own them), so IF they come onto your property, keep them there until the owner comes to get them and removes them. The law says that's why you have a gate on your entrance (if you dont have a gate, get one!)...close the gate and keep it closed to keep unwanted animals wondering in. Strange but true lol

ANXIOUS

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

When your dog is off your property, that's then considered that your dog is in a public area, again the law clearly states that your dog must be on a leash when in a public place.

The wording is under your control, no mention of a leash. Not talking about restricted breeds obviously.

seamus

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

the law clearly states that your dog must be on a leash when in a public place.

Actually it doesn't state it clearly at all. It states that a dog may not be in a public place unless under "effectual control". This has not been interpreted to mean "on a leash" - that is, if a guy is walking and his dog is walking beside him and clearly responding to commands, then he is not breaking any laws by not having it on a leash.

In any case, that's kind of irrelevant. Damage caused by dogs in Ireland falls under strict liability - that is, the injured party does not have to prove negligence or intent on the part of the dog owner. If a dog causes damage, the owner is liable for that damage, case closed. It would be no defence to show that the dog was provoked, or broke its leash, or whatever. If the dog causes injury, the owner is liable.

I expect that in the case in the OP, the dog owner was disputing the extent of his liability - i.e. how much damage the dog did, and how much damage happened in the later crash.

mrs.doubt.fire

ANXIOUS and seamus...I was only para-phrasing, no need to nit pick what I said, it's still the same info.

Jawgap

ronoc wrote: »

Something similar happened to me coming down a hill in wicklow and I spent a night in Vincents because of it.

I was told to consider legal action but I subsequently found the dog was of limited means and was unlikely to be capable of paying.

That's a bit ruff.....

Hitman3000

secman wrote:

That particular breed seems to have a disposition towards causing trouble for cyclists.

[/quote]


They also provide unsolicited motivation to a multitude of runners, myself included.

mathie

Last Wednesday a dog ran out in front of me on Howth. He was with his owner but ran over once it saw another dog.
I'd to hit the brakes and have to clip out.
The owner called the dog but said nothing otherwise.
"No apology?" I proffer.
"Keep your mouth to yourself"

Good times.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

That's a bit ruff.....

The gardai told me he has kept his nose clean.

He is a good boy.

ANXIOUS

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

ANXIOUS and seamus...I was only para-phrasing, no need to nit pick what I said, it's still the same info.

In fairness it's a massive difference to say it's illegal not to have a dog on a lead.

benneca1

ronoc wrote: »

Something similar happened to me coming down a hill in wicklow and I spent a night in Vincents because of it.

I was told to consider legal action but I subsequently found the dog was of limited means and was unlikely to be capable of paying.

A dog of limited means ??

Paulzx

benneca1 wrote: »

A dog of limited means ??

He'd defaulted on the mortgage on his kennel

benneca1

benneca1 wrote: »

A dog of limited means ??

He has fallen on ruff times

ford2600

I've been on both sides of this.

About 12 years ago, my dog attacked a pedestrian (whom I knew well, along with her extended family) immediately outside farm gate. Dog was a pure bred lab, that I had rehomed after some clown had bought him at Xmas as a cute chocolate lab pup and proceeded to ignore him when he grew. He was beyond my skillset to retrain and in hindsight should have got rid of him beforehand. He didn't do any real physical damage, but lady got a fright. I immediately brought her for medical attention, got her a small gift and had dog put down by vet within about 3 hours. I'd imagine a lot of conflict after, in the absence of serious injury, could be resolved by similar actions.

A Jack Russell, walking with it's very elderly owner bit me on calf in Waterford city about 10 years ago, I hadn't the heart to say it to owner, but I probably should as it might have been a habit he had.

I generally ride a lot in areas where there are quite a few sheep farmers, and therefore sheepdogs and it is the only way I do any kind of hard riding these days; sheepdog intervals to break up the wandering around the byroads. The really good (i.e. sneaky) sheepdog you won't hear coming; those fcukers can do stealth mode

When route checking an audax ride last year myself an organiser were chased for a couple of hundred metres by one determined lab, it meant that rather nice section of road was removed from route

Mr.H

Would you sue if it was a child instead of a dog? I mean the parents should have control of the child also. Just because of run it down and kill it doesn't mean you're responsible........

It's happened to us all where a dog runs out and chases you. I slow down not speed up. If it annoys you, then go to the owner and tell them you will call the the dog warden if they don't stop their dog from running onto the street.

rollingscone

deandean wrote: »

An interesting court case here, its the first time I have heard of a cyclist taking an action against the owner of a dog after the dog ran out from a driveway and caused the cyclist to hit the deck:
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/cyclist-who-claims-he-cant-run-or-cycle-after-collision-with-dog-settles-action-against-owners-36685185.html
Twice I've had serious encounters with dogs when out cycling. Fortunately I didn't suffer significant injuries either time. Both times it was a black and white border collie, same as in the case above. That particular breed seems to have a disposition towards causing trouble for cyclists.

It's relatively common for pedestrians and motorists to sue homeowners if the dog can be identified.

They're covered under the third party liability section of most if not all home insurance policies (just like cyclists)

benneca1

Seriously the issue is that if you have animals in a public place they must be under control. You are liable otherwise. I am from a farm and dogs cattle and sheep if they get out and cause harm you have to pay up there are no grounds not to. In the above case the issue was not liability it was whether or not the injures were caused by the accident and the extent of same.

Wishbone Ash

Mr.H wrote: »

.....It's happened to us all where a dog runs out and chases you. I slow down not speed up. If it annoys you, then go to the owner and tell them you will call the the dog warden if they don't stop their dog from running onto the street.

2 points.

1. People like myself who are terrified of dogs are not going to approach a house with a dog/dogs present to speak to the owner.

2. Calling a dog warden is fine if you know where you are but not much good if cycling in unfamiliar territory and attacked by a dog from an un-numbered house in the countryside.

Roca

I had an incident few years ago where a dog came from nowhere and attacked me while cycling. Went to court etc but lost the case because the owner denied ownership. The dog wasn't licenced so I couldn't prove 100% they owned the dog.

HugoMyBoss

Roca wrote: »

I had an incident few years ago where a dog came from nowhere and attacked me while cycling. Went to court etc but lost the case because the owner denied ownership. The dog wasn't licenced so I couldn't prove 100% they owned the dog.

Was the dog put down?

homer911

I hit a lab on my motorbike years ago - it was just wandering across the road on its own, then stopped. I chose to pass it on the widest part of the road and once committed, the dog walked in front of me - went flying and skating in equal measure - in fairness I should have slowed right down. Major damage to bike, minor damage to me. Dog ran off without providing his name and address or insurance details! Ignorant sod!

Takca

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

2. Calling a dog warden is fine if you know where you are but not much good if cycling in unfamiliar territory and attacked by a dog from an un-numbered house in the countryside.

I've thought about this for reporting things in the past (dogs, potholes, whatever), if your tracking your ride with a GPS device, hit the split button (if you have one), then later you can see on the map where the old spit finished and the new one started.

Roca

HugoMyBoss wrote:

Was the dog put down?

Don't no what happened the dog after to be honest .. but I knew they owned the dog as far as it was always there. I lost it based in no licence linking the owner to the dog.

Tazz T

ted1 wrote: »

I narrowly avoided a similar incident with a grey squirrel coming down long hill from roundwood.
Animals are a nuisance

I'd say the squirrel would say that humans are the nuisance as animals tend not to drive mechanical equipment.

ford2600

ted1 wrote: »

I narrowly avoided a similar incident with a grey squirrel coming down long hill from roundwood.
Animals are a nuisance

https://nargc.ie/mink-and-grey-squirrel-bounties-important-notice/

That's €3 you missed out on

check_six

Roca wrote: »

Don't no what happened the dog after to be honest .. but I knew they owned the dog as far as it was always there. I lost it based in no licence linking the owner to the dog.

In my mind's eye I'm seeing the hound sitting the the dock in the court wearing a bow-tie and sad (hangdog?) expression.

You'd like to think that an uncontrolled 'feral' dog that was attacking people might be picked up rather than just left to wander the roads seeing that the authorities knew about its existence. Maybe the 'owners' decided to have an instant change of heart after the court case and give the mutt a home by getting a licence immediately after their liability was no longer in question.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Magic number strikes again.



Tip: when jumping the compo train, you must pick a speed of at most 29kph.

I saw this irresponsible speed mentioned somewhere else in the media this morning.

Those roadside dynamic speed signs should have a frownie face for when cyclists pass at 30km/h. As you said, Lumen, it is simultaneously the speed at which cyclists are going way too fast, and drivers are going impossibly slowly.

Kav0777

ronoc wrote: »

He has fallen on ruff times

You'd be barking up the wrong tree trying to get money from there...

Grassey

homer911 wrote: »

Dog ran off without providing his name and address or insurance details! Ignorant sod!

Sounds like we immediately need all dogs to have a licence, do a test to be allowed on the roads, mandatory muzzles and high vis too.

Eamonnator

Grassey wrote: »

Sounds like we immediately need all dogs to have a licence, do a test to be allowed on the roads, mandatory muzzles and high vis too.

And pay road tax.
Don't forget the Road Tax, Joe

magicbastarder

ford2600 wrote: »

https://nargc.ie/mink-and-grey-squirrel-bounties-important-notice/

That's €3 you missed out on

or a small meal.

Alek

magicbastarder wrote: »

or a small meal.

Bon appetite

https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/meet-the-man-who-eats-roadkill/56255d49404c8b7e5f76f906

terrydel

Greybottle wrote: »

Seems he was hurt in another accident a few months later.

Either way the dog was not under control, so it should be a warning to other dog owners. FWIW a nephew of my neighbour sued for damage done to his car when he hit and killed a dog that ran out in front of him. The insurance company paid out, think it was around €2,000.

In fairness, to sue after someone loses their pet is a ***** trick imho.

terrydel

ford2600 wrote: »

I've been on both sides of this.

About 12 years ago, my dog attacked a pedestrian (whom I knew well, along with her extended family) immediately outside farm gate. Dog was a pure bred lab, that I had rehomed after some clown had bought him at Xmas as a cute chocolate lab pup and proceeded to ignore him when he grew. He was beyond my skillset to retrain and in hindsight should have got rid of him beforehand. He didn't do any real physical damage, but lady got a fright. I immediately brought her for medical attention, got her a small gift and had dog put down by vet within about 3 hours. I'd imagine a lot of conflict after, in the absence of serious injury, could be resolved by similar actions.

A Jack Russell, walking with it's very elderly owner bit me on calf in Waterford city about 10 years ago, I hadn't the heart to say it to owner, but I probably should as it might have been a habit he had.

I generally ride a lot in areas where there are quite a few sheep farmers, and therefore sheepdogs and it is the only way I do any kind of hard riding these days; sheepdog intervals to break up the wandering around the byroads. The really good (i.e. sneaky) sheepdog you won't hear coming; those fcukers can do stealth mode

When route checking an audax ride last year myself an organiser were chased for a couple of hundred metres by one determined lab, it meant that rather nice section of road was removed from route

I personally find it incredibly sad and wrong that for doing that the dog paid with his life. If it was your dog and your property, you should have been fined, the poor dog was only doing what it felt was right, protecting its area.

magicbastarder

terrydel wrote: »

In fairness, to sue after someone loses their pet is a ***** trick imho.

so he should have paid the €2000 damage out of his own pocket?

magicbastarder

terrydel wrote: »

the poor dog was only doing what it felt was right, protecting its area.

also, what do you propose should have been done with a dog with a known history of attacking people?
IIRC, we kill approx. 7 million animals a year in this country, the vast majority simply to eat them. a dog with a known issue of attacking people 'deserves' it more than 99.999% of all other animals we deem fit to kill.

ford2600

terrydel wrote: »

I personally find it incredibly sad

For a dog dead 12 years you never met....

Here is a photo for you

irishrover99

magicbastarder wrote: »

also, what do you propose should have been done with a dog with a known history of attacking people?
IIRC, we kill approx. 7 million animals a year in this country, the vast majority simply to eat them. a dog with a known issue of attacking people 'deserves' it more than 99.999% of all other animals we deem fit to kill.

From what I read, it didn't really attack anyone as the was no physical damage so sound like the dog barked and snarled at the woman and if their was no previous then maybe it was an overreaction to have the dog put down for that.

By the sounds of it, a good dog like that would have many takers, perhaps someone who could of trained it properly would have took it.

I've had lots of experience with dogs when I was younger but I went about 10 years without one.

Last year I got a beautiful staff Russel pup from some dodgy bloke who had them, mainly because I feared he would kill them if nobody took them. After a few weeks I could see this pup was mentally scarred. It wouldn't stop biting and it tore my garden to shreds daily.it actually ate flowers.

Then my dads dementia/seizures got worse and I was up to my eyes with him, work and the kids and I had to pass the dog onto a new family who had the time to take care of him.

I told them the truth and over 80 people contacted me for this dog.
I believe he is doing well now and much better behaved.

average_runner

terrydel wrote: »

In fairness, to sue after someone loses their pet is a ***** trick imho.

In fairness if the owner cared about the dog, the incident wouldn't of happened.

Why should someone be out of pocket for a careless owner?

magicbastarder

irishrover99 wrote: »

From what I read, it didn't really attack anyone as the was no physical damage so sound like the dog barked and snarled at the woman

The phrase used was 'no real physical damage' and ford2600 took the woman for a medical examination. I'm sure he can clarify, but that sounds like an attempted attack rather than a fit of barking.

Mercian Pro

terrydel wrote: »

I personally find it incredibly sad and wrong that for doing that the dog paid with his life. If it was your dog and your property, you should have been fined, the poor dog was only doing what it felt was right, protecting its area.

Check out this post https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057781291 and it might just change your mind.

ford2600

magicbastarder wrote: »

The phrase used was 'no real physical damage' and ford2600 took the woman for a medical examination. I'm sure he can clarify, but that sounds like an attempted attack rather than a fit of barking.

There was no attempt about it, he jumped on her, knocked her and bit her on thigh, I wasnt present for the physical examination but my mother stated there was slightly broken skin and a lot of bruising. I had to kick dog off the lady

I know we live a in New Age where animals and humans are equal; but in my view a dog/bull etc attacks there is only one course of actions.

I was very fond of dog, but any lingering doubts vanished when two primary school age girls walked down the road the following day.

As an aside vets very firm advice was to put dog down; this is the most gifted and kind man with animals I've ever met.

secman

Got chased today by one of the collies at Lisheen , thankfully he was struggling running through a field full of snow and I managed to get ahead of him before he got on to the road. Great camouflage for border collies all around roads in blessington as black and white snow stacked up high on both sides of road. I too had a dog put down, it did upset me but he bit a kid on the arm and stitches were required, a lovely Kerry blue, couldn't take the risk of it happening again.