Cheap suckler system

Soccer358

I am wondering do any run a cheap and effective suckler system considering housing, let the bull run with them all year, breeds etc

anthony500_1

Only started farming in my own right in 2015, transferred from weanling to beef, to sucklers, Run a cheap system here, nothing flash, 8 cows running with a bull.and another 6/8 beef heifers on 44ac of dry ground. AI did not work for me as I work and live off farm and could not catch heats, a disaster the first two years to say the least, so bought a bull that was 5yr old, seen plenty of his offspring and he was bought cheap with great breading behind him. Out winter the 9 of them on about 15ac and they get 40 bales of silage roughly from November to march. A couple buckets of lick and 2 doses a year for fluke and worms and vaccinate for lepto only. They only go into a straw bedded shed two weeks pre calving and fired out as soon as calf is up and sucking on there own, have camera on them so they are easy watched. Not saying I'm making a fortune the last two years, but I've not put any money other then that generated on farm back into farm. This year I should have a few pound in the bank to either take out from the farm or reinvest. I've a mix of 4 sim, 3 lim and one bbx and the bull is sim, delighted so far this year with 4 of the 8 calved down in 3 weeks and hopefully the rest calved in the next 4 weeks. If you keep things tight, and don't buy flash or crap you don't need is half the battle. To much Nuts and fertilizer are imo the greatest drain on funds, lime and plenty of spray to keep weeds down and grass up.

eoinmk2

we used to have sucklers along with some calf to beef, but have changed to all calf to beef last year. in terms of breed choice this is our experience.

we had a lot of angus cross friesian cows at first (idea being cheaper to feed, easy to manage, more live calves etc) then crossed back to saler to try bring size, and in the last year crossed back to lim. whether it was bad bull genetics, bad cow genetics, or combinations of both we found for all the effort that the offspring from the suckler herd were leaving the same money on average (maybe very slightly more) as the angus calves we were rearing from a bucket. all spring (feb/march) born (sucklers and bucket reared calves) were finished in the same group before the second winter (november). it must be said the sucks were off a very british friesian herd and a very good bull as angus's off the dairy herd go.

it was so disheartening looking at the kill out sheet. maybe it was poor choices in bulls/cows on our part, but we still felt that the difference just couldnt be justified.

another thing is you we didnt realise how much the cows ate cow until they were gone. our grazing system is so much easier to manage now without them, although i think we were far too generous to them in hindsight.


I dont mean to be negative, thats just our experience (an inefficient system with not great breeding that just didnt work). Like you say, a cheap supper efficient system (if you can find one) with really good breeding is the way to go.

not much advice here, maybe more what not to do!

still miss having the cows

orchard farm

Not being smart but its very hard to have the words cheap and sucklers in the same sentence,even if your very efficient all it takes is one lost calf and your into the red.only hope is maybe outwintering like in the burren

anthony500_1

orchard farm wrote:

Not being smart but its very hard to have the words cheap and sucklers in the same sentence,even if your very efficient all it takes is one lost calf and your into the red.only hope is maybe outwintering like in the burren

Agree 100% keeping cows on slats for 6 or 7mts is a serious money burner. I've heard of lads double suckling to increase the profit margin, but for this you would need quite cows, with bags of milk, and plenty of time to get the cow to take to the foster calf

bogman_bass

Soccer358 wrote: »

I am wondering do any run a cheap and effective suckler system considering housing, let the bull run with them all year, breeds etc

if the bull is running with them all year it is neither cheap nor effective

memorystick

Just because you're way understocked and not spending anything doesn't mean you are making money. There's a happy medium.

charolais0153

With the bdgp included it shouldnt be too hard to average 1000+ for weanlings. 700 for the cow per year leaves you with at least 300 euro per cow . dont know what it costs to keep a cow here but i really doubt that it costs 700. There is a bit of work in calfing them and getting them to suck but same work with bad cows and calfs

ShamBlaa

anthony500_1 wrote: »

Agree 100% keeping cows on slats for 6 or 7mts is a serious money burner. I've heard of lads double suckling to increase the profit margin, but for this you would need quite cows, with bags of milk, and plenty of time to get the cow to take to the foster calf

Surly solution here is buy a dairy cow and work from there....her own calf and one to match it bought in??

charolais0153

ShamBlaa wrote: »

Surly solution here is buy a dairy cow and work from there....her own calf and one to match it bought in??

Problem with that is cow has heaps of milk for first 6 weeks and then they are able to manage it but there can ne lots of trouble in those few weeks with mastitis etc.

Limestone Cowboy

charolais0153 wrote: »

With the bdgp included it shouldnt be too hard to average 1000+ for weanlings. 700 for the cow per year leaves you with at least 300 euro per cow . dont know what it costs to keep a cow here but i really doubt that it costs 700. There is a bit of work in calfing them and getting them to suck but same work with bad cows and calfs

Id agree with you, I think at this stage they have to be hitting 1k under 12 months for it to be viable. Easier said than done though. I don't see much of a place for first cross dairy cows in suckling either, way too inconsistent. A charolais or good red lim are the only ones you will get rewarded for selling weanlings from what I can see.

Hard Knocks

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Id agree with you, I think at this stage they have to be hitting 1k under 12 months for it to be viable. Easier said than done though. I don't see much of a place for first cross dairy cows in suckling either, way too inconsistent. A charolais or good red lim are the only ones you will get rewarded for selling weanlings from what I can see.

Then you have buyers saying the want nothing heavier than 250-300kg @ €2.50/kg

Grueller

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Id agree with you, I think at this stage they have to be hitting 1k under 12 months for it to be viable. Easier said than done though. I don't see much of a place for first cross dairy cows in suckling either, way too inconsistent. A charolais or good red lim are the only ones you will get rewarded for selling weanlings from what I can see.

Parthenaise or aubrac cows and a blue bull and watch the value of your weanlings rise.
I agree 100% on the first cross dairy cow despite what teagasc have often said. Maybe if you are finishing all of your own stock but certainly not to breed weanlings.

charolais0153

Grueller wrote: »

Parthenaise or aubrac cows and a blue bull and watch the value of your weanlings rise.
I agree 100% on the first cross dairy cow despite what teagasc have often said. Maybe if you are finishing all of your own stock but certainly not to breed weanlings.

Rather than a limosin?
Legwax liked blondes. A former suckler farmer of the year that i worked for liked light red/yellow limousins.doctors differ and all that

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Rather than a limosin?
Legwax liked blondes. A former suckler farmer of the year that i worked for liked light red/yellow limousins.doctors differ and all that

Not a thing wrong with limousin cows but our top priced weanlings consistently come from our parthenaise cows. We had some of them break €4 per kg last autumn in the weanling sales.
We have limousin, parthenaise, aubrac, belgian blue cross, charolais and even one angus that somehow avoids the cull every year by the virtue of having a live calf every year.

Limestone Cowboy

Grueller wrote: »

Parthenaise or aubrac cows and a blue bull and watch the value of your weanlings rise.
I agree 100% on the first cross dairy cow despite what teagasc have often said. Maybe if you are finishing all of your own stock but certainly not to breed weanlings.

I won't disagree with you grueller, it's a bit more niche though. You need to have them really good if that's the direction your heading. Plenty of buyers for a plainer type charolais or lim. Lot of farmers not too keen on blues, parts or blondes.

Grueller

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I won't disagree with you grueller, it's a bit more niche though. You need to have them really good if that's the direction your heading. Plenty of buyers for a plainer type charolais or lim. Lot of farmers not too keen on blues, parts or blondes.

Ah yeah it is more niche. To add balance though, I had a good blue last year that wasn't quite shipping quality at 360kgs. I also had two really good limousins averaging 360kgs. All three made €990. There are plenty Irish buyers for blues too. Parthenaise and blonde are harder sold due to the difficulty of getting fat covers on them.
One question I always ask though is, if the bluea are so undesirable in ways, why have limousin breeders turned that breed from rangier, balanced cattle into harder muscled, red coloured belgian blue lites? Look at an ai catalogue from 20 yrs ago and one now to see the change.

Icelandicseige

Grueller wrote: »

Parthenaise or aubrac cows and a blue bull and watch the value of your weanlings rise.
I agree 100% on the first cross dairy cow despite what teagasc have often said. Maybe if you are finishing all of your own stock but certainly not to breed weanlings.

I think Teagasc say they are more profitable as they eat less because smaller cow, fertility is higher because of hybrid vigour. Can stock at higher percentage which means more calfs sold per hectare. Come back bulling quicker and have lots of milk to pass onto off-spring. In my opinion the size of the bull the cows are from makes a big difference. Most dairy lads are just into short gestation and calving ease but not worried about shape and size so hard to get the right stock.

charolais0153

Grueller wrote: »

Ah yeah it is more niche. To add balance though, I had a good blue last year that wasn't quite shipping quality at 360kgs. I also had two really good limousins averaging 360kgs. All three made €990. There are plenty Irish buyers for blues too. Parthenaise and blonde are harder sold due to the difficulty of getting fat covers on them.
One question I always ask though is, if the bluea are so undesirable in ways, why have limousin breeders turned that breed from rangier, balanced cattle into harder muscled, red coloured belgian blue lites? Look at an ai catalogue from 20 yrs ago and one now to see the change.

Bit of a stigma attached to belgian blue i find. "Blues are all hard calved whereas all limousins are easy"
"They're soft on feet"

Nobody likes raw cattle. limousins have changed to a stockier more muscly type over the years due to demand rather than trying to copy blues but that doesnt neccssarily mean that theyre going to go to a stage where they cant calve naturally anymore

Grueller

Icelandicseige wrote: »

I think Teagasc say they are more profitable as they eat less because smaller cow, fertility is higher because of hybrid vigour. Can stock at higher percentage which means more calfs sold per hectare. Come back bulling quicker and have lots of milk to pass onto off-spring. In my opinion the size of the bull the cows are from makes a big difference. Most dairy lads are just into short gestation and calving ease but not worried about shape and size so hard to get the right stock.

Sell more weanlings or more kilos at €2.20/kg or a few less at €3.00 per kilo? That is an individual decision that has to be made on each farm depending on circumstances.
We would have no dairy bred here and have a 380 day calving interval. No problems with cows going back in calf at all. We do have to be very selective with our replacements as retaining milk can be a difficulty.

anthony500_1

memorystick wrote:

Just because you're way understocked and not spending anything doesn't mean you are making money. There's a happy medium.

And the same can be said for overstocked. There is no money in that either. The biggest bill on a farm is fertilizer. By under stocking to a certain point you cut out a huge amount of this bill, you still need a small amount to keep putting back in what your taking out.
Cows only need a condition score of 3 most of the year and if you time it right to have your highest demand on the cow from may till August you can get a good calf and a cow keeping her condition going into the winter months as she will loose a small amount over the winter unless your pumping them with bag feed

I am by no means a model farmer and I can't comment on what others do or say, but I know my own system has a turn of profit from the land type I have.

Just because everyone else is doing it one way, does not mean it's the right way or the only way.

charolais0153

Icelandicseige wrote: »

I think Teagasc say they are more profitable as they eat less because smaller cow, fertility is higher because of hybrid vigour. Can stock at higher percentage which means more calfs sold per hectare. Come back bulling quicker and have lots of milk to pass onto off-spring. In my opinion the size of the bull the cows are from makes a big difference. Most dairy lads are just into short gestation and calving ease but not worried about shape and size so hard to get the right stock.

Dairy cross cows have more milk but they require more energy to produce that whereas a beefier cow is putting that into her fat reserves and a fat cow will always go incalf quicker than a thin cow.

memorystick

3 pallets of 18 6 11 or 10 10 30 would be money well spent. Fertiliser does actually pay, but only on a certain amount.

bogman_bass

charolais0153 wrote: »

Rather than a limosin?
Legwax liked blondes. A former suckler farmer of the year that i worked for liked light red/yellow limousins.doctors differ and all that

legwax was a big Parthenaise fan If I remember right

Bass Reeves

I think if you have goodish land finishing cattle beats sucklers all the time. I am not into the top 10% or 20% game. In general 1K weanlings at sub 12 months are few enough. As well while bulls may hit it heifers seldom do. Two store carried to finish or 3 years will be carried where one suckler unit exists. Biggest issue with lads moving from sucklers to drystock is the unwillingness to look at different stock options.

If you average 850/weanling net of costs it is a very good average at sub 8-12 months from what I can see. Costs are hard to decipher some land claiming sub 400/cow and more claiming 650-700/cow. At 0.9 calves/unit at 450/cow costs leaves around 300/cow of a margin. What is the stocking rate a unit to 2 acres. You can carry two stores to finish on the same amount of land or a weanling to finish system at a unit to 1.2-1.3acres.

Limestone Cowboy

Grueller wrote: »

Ah yeah it is more niche. To add balance though, I had a good blue last year that wasn't quite shipping quality at 360kgs. I also had two really good limousins averaging 360kgs. All three made €990. There are plenty Irish buyers for blues too. Parthenaise and blonde are harder sold due to the difficulty of getting fat covers on them.
One question I always ask though is, if the bluea are so undesirable in ways, why have limousin breeders turned that breed from rangier, balanced cattle into harder muscled, red coloured belgian blue lites? Look at an ai catalogue from 20 yrs ago and one now to see the change.

Maybe location has a bit to do with it too. I know your down the South East direction. I don't see the premium being paid for them locally anyway and being honest I don't think a lot of my cows would be good enough to breed that quality consistently either. I always liked blues as cattle but can't see them fitting in here at the moment. Nothing to beat the golden charolais around here the last couple of years.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think if you have goodish land finishing cattle beats sucklers all the time. I am not into the top 10% or 20% game. In general 1K weanlings at sub 12 months are few enough. As well while bulls may hit it heifers seldom do. Two store carried to finish or 3 years will be carried where one suckler unit exists. Biggest issue with lads moving from sucklers to drystock is the unwillingness to look at different stock options.

If you average 850/weanling net of costs it is a very good average at sub 8-12 months from what I can see. Costs are hard to decipher some land claiming sub 400/cow and more claiming 650-700/cow. At 0.9 calves/unit at 450/cow costs leaves around 300/cow of a margin. What is the stocking rate a unit to 2 acres. You can carry two stores to finish on the same amount of land or a weanling to finish system at a unit to 1.2-1.3acres.

.9 calves . lads were lambasting greenfields for having 8% mortality rate while your saying average farm has 10% mortality rate.
Got 820 each for 2 330kg limousin heifer twins 850 avg is bogus. Your putting an average suckler operation against a good store system, of course its going to be better.

grassroot1

charolais0153 wrote: »

.9 calves . lads were lambasting greenfields for having 8% mortality rate while your saying average farm has 10% mortality rate.
Got 820 each for 2 330kg limousin heifer twins 850 avg is bogus. Your putting an average suckler operation against a good store system, of course its going to be better.

No he is saying that for every 10 cows you have you might sell on average .9 calves per cow due to calving interval inexcess of 365 days,mortality and carrying empty cows over.(this is a particular problem in split calving herds)

Limestone Cowboy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think if you have goodish land finishing cattle beats sucklers all the time. I am not into the top 10% or 20% game. In general 1K weanlings at sub 12 months are few enough. As well while bulls may hit it heifers seldom do. Two store carried to finish or 3 years will be carried where one suckler unit exists. Biggest issue with lads moving from sucklers to drystock is the unwillingness to look at different stock options.

If you average 850/weanling net of costs it is a very good average at sub 8-12 months from what I can see. Costs are hard to decipher some land claiming sub 400/cow and more claiming 650-700/cow. At 0.9 calves/unit at 450/cow costs leaves around 300/cow of a margin. What is the stocking rate a unit to 2 acres. You can carry two stores to finish on the same amount of land or a weanling to finish system at a unit to 1.2-1.3acres.

It shouldn't be that hard to get any decent suckler bred stock into 1k at 12 months. If they arent doing that they arent worth having. I'm very close to that the last couple of years and there is huge scope for improvement quality wise. You'd be a lot better off with 40 good well managed cows selling weanlings at 1k than 50 selling at 800.

Limestone Cowboy

grassroot1 wrote: »

No he is saying that for every 10 cows you have you might sell on average .9 calves per cow due to calving interval inexcess of 365 days,mortality and carrying empty cows over.(this is a particular problem in split calving herds)

Ya and I'd imagine that 0.9 is fairly accurate across most herds. You'd want to be fairly ruthless and cull anything that's stepping out of line really. Awful annoying and expensive looking at an empty cow roaming around as fat as a snail for the summer only to be bulled and calved again the following year.

orchard farm

The majority of suckler calf to weaning mainly comes from poor west of ireland land.in order to get weanings into 1000 area takes alot of extra meal,higher calving dificulties,ai,more care etc which all adds up.7-800 is more realistic at the end of the day and from my experience dairy cross cows are far too hard kept for marginal land

Who2

Bulls don’t have to be hard calving, cows don’t have to fit in a parkour. Your weanlings do need to be hitting 1k to be making anything. Bulls at seven months and heifers by 12 months. Not all weanlings come from west of the Shannon. A kilo of meal spent on each weanling is the best money you’ll ever spend. €60 worth will turn everything into top money. The day of letting them do there own thing is over, with age restrictions they have to be fed right.

Bass Reeves

National stastics is 0.8 calves per cow per year sold I picked 0.9 calves to give a reflection of good preformers. 850/weanling would be a good bit above national average for weanlings across heifers and bulls.

patsy_mccabe

Whats a weanling? Big difference between a march born weanling sold in Oct at 7 months and the same 'weanling' sold the following spring in May at 14 months. Very hard to get the magic €1000 for the first one, senond one more attainable.
I honestly can't see suckler cow numbers being maintained anyway near current numbers. I think numbers will fall dramatically in the coming years.

orchard farm

Who2 wrote: »

Bulls don’t have to be hard calving, cows don’t have to fit in a parkour. Your weanlings do need to be hitting 1k to be making anything. Bulls at seven months and heifers by 12 months. Not all weanlings come from west of the Shannon. A kilo of meal spent on each weanling is the best money you’ll ever spend. €60 worth will turn everything into top money. The day of letting them do there own thing is over, with age restrictions they have to be fed right.

Thats my point weanings should only be coming of land west of shannon,better land should be used for fattining,dairy,tillage.it distorts the market and means that farmers cant afford to keep sucklers on bad land when thats the place they belong.1000 at 7 months?cant be done here in the northwest without vincent and paul

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Whats a weanling? Big difference between a march born weanling sold in Oct at 7 months and the same 'weanling' sold the following spring in May at 14 months. Very hard to get the magic €1000 for the first one, senond one more attainable.
I honestly can't see suckler cow numbers being maintained anyway near current numbers. I think numbers will fall dramatically in the coming years.

6-10 months id say

Limestone Cowboy

orchard farm wrote: »

Thats my point weanings should only be coming of land west of shannon,better land should be used for fattining,dairy,tillage.it distorts the market and means that farmers cant afford to keep sucklers on bad land when thats the place they belong.1000 at 7 months?cant be done here in the northwest without vincent and paul

It can't be done anywhere without feeding them. It's the best return you'll ever get from feeding meal when they are 3-6 months old.

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Whats a weanling? Big difference between a march born weanling sold in Oct at 7 months and the same 'weanling' sold the following spring in May at 14 months. Very hard to get the magic €1000 for the first one, senond one more attainable.
I honestly can't see suckler cow numbers being maintained anyway near current numbers. I think numbers will fall dramatically in the coming years.

That's why I said under 12 months pasty, some lads will be autumn calving selling weanlings at 11 months and some spring calving selling at 7. It's not comparing like with like.

orchard farm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

It can't be done anywhere without feeding them. It's the best return you'll ever get from feeding meal when they are 3-6 months old.

I agree but thats the problem,the thread says cheap suckler system,creep feedin aint cheap

Limestone Cowboy

orchard farm wrote: »

I agree but thats the problem,the thread says cheap suckler system,creep feedin aint cheap

It's not expensive either, small calves won't eat much anyway. You'd be doing well to have them eating 2-3kg a day by the time they are 6 months when they are still sucking from my experience and the difference it makes is unbelievable. They will only pick at it for the first few months. 60-70 euro of meal will make a hungry calf into a saleable one and it will more than pay for itself. Selling hungry light stock is probably the dearest thing you could be at, your big cost which is keeping the cow for the year remains much the same regardless of what you do with her offspring.

blue5000

I've been holding off replying here for a while. TBH I'm a bit p1ssed off with weather, not much grass around the gaff and I'm always like this in March. But there is two very divided camps here, the weanling producer and the suckler farmers that finish their own calves.

I honestly think you are at nothing unless you finish them yourself. For anyone that isn't finishing them, you are already talking about putting meal into calves to get top weanling prices, why can't the cow rear the calf?

TITANIUM.

blue5000 wrote: »

I've been holding off replying here for a while. TBH I'm a bit p1ssed off with weather, not much grass around the gaff and I'm always like this in March. But there is two very divided camps here, the weanling producer and the suckler farmers that finish their own calves.

I honestly think you are at nothing unless you finish them yourself. For anyone that isn't finishing them, you are already talking about putting meal into calves to get top weanling prices, why can't the cow rear the calf?

I don't finish my own stock but I have to agree with you on that point. It's something I'm moving towards but I'll need extra storage and shed space before I can go down this route with all offspring.

On the meal point, I'm surprised by you blue, that's a very simplistic view. Of course the cow can rear the calf but the fact of the matter is you won't get paid for them unless you give um a little extra. Allot of the lads around the ring are buying by weight and not so much with there eyes. An example I saw of this last autumn, I had 3 really nice quality heifers that had zero meal eat as they were out of the shed after calving and I normally don't feed creep when there at grass. I was disappointed with the price and didn't sell. The next lot in were 3 heifers that were clearly well back on quality compared to my girls, around the same age and all were Charolais, but this bunch had clearly been pushed with ration and were mud fat. By God they went and went and went and made dame good money. And no they weren't old enough to be butcher's heifers. I was gobsmacked that buyers would be so interested in lesser quality pushed cattle rather then better quality cattle that won't melt when you take them home but there you go.
So that's why lads are inclined to feed a bit meal, because they'll be rewarded for it com sale day.

kk.man

I'm not in sucking but tbh if you have to carry a calf to finish it means at least 2 offspring from that cow on the farm at any given time.
Factor in sheds and labour.... can't honestly see the twist in it at all

bogman_bass

orchard farm wrote: »

Thats my point weanings should only be coming of land west of shannon,better land should be used for fattining,dairy,tillage.it distorts the market and means that farmers cant afford to keep sucklers on bad land when thats the place they belong.1000 at 7 months?cant be done here in the northwest without vincent and paul

should they though? Surely if you need to be housing them for that long you might as well be doing the finishing out west and pushing bulls hard in the shed

blue5000

kk.man wrote: »

I'm not in sucking but tbh if you have to carry a calf to finish it means at least 2 offspring from that cow on the farm at any given time.
Factor in sheds and labour.... can't honestly see the twist in it at all

I used to be selling weanlings too, look up what weights and grades your cattle came into on icbf. (edit Sorry I see you are not at suckling anymore, so no point in looking up icbf)

Cull the worst 7/8 cows and that will free up a pen. You don't have to do it all in one go, start off with a few heifers not needed for breeding.

Titanium you didn't say what breed your's were. Or what weight. By finishing your own you don't have to be creep feeding, just put the meal in for the last 120 days.

Irish Beef

blue5000 wrote: »

I've been holding off replying here for a while. TBH I'm a bit p1ssed off with weather, not much grass around the gaff and I'm always like this in March. But there is two very divided camps here, the weanling producer and the suckler farmers that finish their own calves.

I honestly think you are at nothing unless you finish them yourself. For anyone that isn't finishing them, you are already talking about putting meal into calves to get top weanling prices, why can't the cow rear the calf?

Id be with Limestone here regarding the bit of meal, I think as grass quality starts falling off in September, this is when the calf needs it most, id creep feed weanling for last two months averaging around 2kgs a day this cost me less that 50 euro, hard to see this not paying. Possibly the milkier cow could rear her own calf and probably fine if finishing your own calf. But I think if you have beefie cows and want to sell nice weanlings the meal is the way to go, Also you don't have to worry about the cows grass as much as calves are looked after due to creep grazing. Everyone has their own take on this, I'm not look at this game and still trying to improve cow quality.

Limestone Cowboy

blue5000 wrote: »

I've been holding off replying here for a while. TBH I'm a bit p1ssed off with weather, not much grass around the gaff and I'm always like this in March. But there is two very divided camps here, the weanling producer and the suckler farmers that finish their own calves.

I honestly think you are at nothing unless you finish them yourself. For anyone that isn't finishing them, you are already talking about putting meal into calves to get top weanling prices, why can't the cow rear the calf?

Ah there's a big difference in the amount of meal required to put a gloss on a 6 month old weanling compared to finishing a 650kg store for 90 days blue. On the laws of average and I know there are exceptions to the rule if you want to produce the top weanlings you are going to be sacrificing milk in your cows to some degree. A lot of farms in the west don't have the infrastructure to cater for intensive finishing system like bull beef or a long enough grazing season to gain anything from a store to beef system.

charolais0153

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Ah there's a big difference in the amount of meal required to put a gloss on a 6 month old weanling compared to finishing a 650kg store for 90 days blue. On the laws of average and I know there are exceptions to the rule if you want to produce the top weanlings you are going to be sacrificing milk in your cows to some degree. A lot of farms in the west don't have the infrastructure to cater for intensive finishing system like bull beef or a long enough grazing season to gain anything from a store to beef system.

Majority Of suckler farmers have only 16 or 17 cows. We use ai and have a few blues,charolais and limos. There is no consistency in them but thays fine when youre selling as weanlings rather than finishing them. Have had 3 bull calves with bad feet in last few years and finished them as bull beef. Was impossible to put flesh on the 2 e grade types compared to the fleshier charolais. System is a lot handier with everything going out gate except for 2 or 3 replacements

patsy_mccabe

Start feeding meal here to weanlings on 1st Sept every year. I'm not one for calendar farming but that's one I follow. I think it's well worth it.

• For starters, they eat feck all. It could be 2 weeks before they are even up to 1/2kg a day.
• It helps break the bond with the mother.
• They get used to people near them. Helps quieten them.
• If cow is short of milk, these cavles gain the most.
• Puts on muscle on them. Good to sell cont type calves.
• Keeps them warm in bad weather. Less pneumonia.
• Puts shine on coat.

Win win as far as I can see.

Grueller

Lads I know teagasc are saying finishing is the only way to get a twist but at the attached prices I don't think I would have any more after keeping them another 7 months and stuffing them with meal over a winter.
I am a suckler cheerleader I know. I understand the argument about heifers pulling that average back but last year I ai'd hard for replacements and kept 18 of them so can't really answer for last year but I would value them at €850 - €900 each at the time.

Grueller

Sorry the photo didn't attach to the last post. All calves born from Feb 1st on as far as I remember.