Mother's Maiden Name and Data protection

Carawaystick

For a lot of state interactions, a person is required to tell the relevant state agency their mother's maiden name.

How does the state ensure the person's mother gives informed consent for this personal data to be shared with them? How does the state inform the mothers the use their personal datum is for?

splinter65

Carawaystick wrote: »

For a lot of state interactions, a person is required to tell the relevant state agency their mother's maiden name.

How does the state ensure the person's mother gives informed consent for this personal data to be shared with them? How does the state inform the mothers the use their personal datum is for?

Why do you think the state asks you for your mothers maiden name?
I’m interested to know what you think they will do with that information.
My mothers maiden name is Woods.
What do you think you could do with that information?
Also, why do you think someone’s name, which is in common usage, should be secret, private, confidential information?
One last question, what do you think happens to claimants who don’t give their mothers maiden name , because they didn’t know it or can’t remember it or just choose not too?

Carawaystick

My question is not about what use the state uses the datum for, but the data protection rules they comply with acquiring the datum.

splinter65

Carawaystick wrote: »

My question is not about what use the state uses the datum for, but the data protection rules they comply with acquiring the datum.

As your name and your mothers name and my name and anyone’s name is out there in common usage everyday, then the data protection rules don’t apply.
If your applying for a pension say, then you have to fill up an application form.
Pensions need to identify who you are so they can process the application to see if your entitled.
They try to give as many opportunities to the applicant as possible to identify themselves, your PPSN, your name, your date of birth, your address, your mothers maiden name, as that will be on your birth cert which SW have access to view.
If you don’t want to give your mothers maiden name then just leave it blank.

Vetch

Carawaystick wrote: »

For a lot of state interactions, a person is required to tell the relevant state agency their mother's maiden name.

How does the state ensure the person's mother gives informed consent for this personal data to be shared with them? How does the state inform the mothers the use their personal datum is for?

The state agency wouldn't necessarily have the mother's contact details to get her consent. Article 14 of GDPR will apply though. http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/article-14-information-to-be-provided-where-personal-data-have-not-been-obtained-from-the-data-subject-GDPR.htm. Data controllers have to keep records of their processing activities (privacy notices) so it would be mentioned there.

4ensic15

splinter65 wrote: »

As your name and your mothers name and my name and anyone’s name is out there in common usage everyday, then the data protection rules don’t apply.
If your applying for a pension say, then you have to fill up an application form.
Pensions need to identify who you are so they can process the application to see if your entitled.
They try to give as many opportunities to the applicant as possible to identify themselves, your PPSN, your name, your date of birth, your address, your mothers maiden name, as that will be on your birth cert which SW have access to view.
If you don’t want to give your mothers maiden name then just leave it blank.

A persons mothers maiden name may not be in common usage. It may not have been used in decades. I would not know the mothers maiden name of many people I am friendly with and meet on a frequent basis.

Peregrinus

In what circumstances does a state agency want to know your mother's maiden name?

testicles

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L1011

Birth certs are public records and as a result anywhere asking for mother's maiden name or DOB as 'security' needed reeducation years ago. If this is an unintended consequence of GDPR, all the better

4ensic15

L1011 wrote: »

Birth certs are public records and as a result anywhere asking for mother's maiden name or DOB as 'security' needed reeducation years ago. If this is an unintended consequence of GDPR, all the better

To get someone else's birth cert details of the date and place of birth are needed plus a fee must be paid. Asking for a mothers maiden name is a low level security precaution as well as a guard against misidentification. There are many people with the same name and date of birth as another person or persons. I know two of two people who have the same First name, Surname and date of birth as one of my brothers.

L1011

4ensic15 wrote: »

To get someone else's birth cert details of the date and place of birth are needed plus a fee must be paid. Asking for a mothers maiden name is a low level security precaution as well as a guard against misidentification. There are many people with the same name and date of birth as another person or persons. I know two of two people who have the same First name, Surname and date of birth as one of my brothers.

The details are available in the GRO offices in Werburgh Street for a nominal fee. They are also available FOC online for anyone born pre-1958.

There has never been an ounce of security to it as a question. It may be used for misidentification prevention but I generally see it used as the only 'security' question.

Squatter

L1011 wrote: »

The details are available in the GRO offices in Werburgh Street for a nominal fee. They are also available FOC online for anyone born pre-1958.

There has never been an ounce of security to it as a question. It may be used for misidentification prevention but I generally see it used as the only 'security' question.

As an adopted person, I have never been able to find out my natural mother's maiden name. (Not that I have tried too hard to find it, as I have no particular desire to trace her.)

Adopted people don't get a full birth certificate; thus when registering for a PSC recently, I had to get a 'special' Birth Cert from the GRO.

lifeandtimes

Less and less places are asking for mothers maiden name as security becuase it is easily availble if someone really wanted to get

When applying for new Public service card they have a list of security questions to choose from.

I belive it origianlly was used to confirm you are who you say you are as it detailed on your birthcert but its being phased out

Fred Swanson

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Robbo

Of course you could just give an unique but ultimately fake answer because they're not going to check it...

"Why yes, dear Mama is one of the famous North Kerry Kardashians".

lifeandtimes

Robbo wrote: »

Of course you could just give an unique but ultimately fake answer because they're not going to check it...

"Why yes, dear Mama is one of the famous North Kerry Kardashians".

oh yes, kathleen, katherine and karen

Peregrinus

This. When you're offering your mother's maiden name as the answer to your security question, you don't have to use your mother's actual maiden name (and, arguably, it's more secure if you don't). All that the system requires is that, when asked the question, you give the answer that you yourself have previously nominated. The system administrator neither knows nor cares what your mother's actual maiden name was.

coylemj

L1011 wrote: »

The details are available in the GRO offices in Werburgh Street for a nominal fee. They are also available FOC online for anyone born pre-1958.

How do you do such a search? I can only see certificates.ie but they want payment before they reveal if you have supplied the correct data for a birth cert.

splinter65

4ensic15 wrote: »

A persons mothers maiden name may not be in common usage. It may not have been used in decades. I would not know the mothers maiden name of many people I am friendly with and meet on a frequent basis.

But if you want to know someone’s mothers maiden name it’s quite easy to find out what it is.

splinter65

testicles wrote: »

Shows how much you know, i.e. fluck all...

Section 1 of the Data Protection Act includes:
“personal data” means data relating to a living individual who can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information in the possession of the data controller;

Given you can be identified using your name, the Data Protection Act does apply.

You do realize that if someone knows your date of birth and your name that they can walk into any health centre that does certs and buy your birth cert?
With all your information on it?
Costs €20. All you need is photo ID.

splinter65

coylemj wrote: »

How do you do such a search? I can only see certificates.ie but they want payment before they reveal if you have supplied the correct data for a birth cert.

You just walk into any of the health centers in the whole country and as long as you have photo ID and know the date of birth and the name you can have a copy of the full birth cert.
Births deaths and marriages are a matter of public record as should be.

splinter65

Peregrinus wrote: »

In what circumstances does a state agency want to know your mother's maiden name?

It’s mostly SW because they have online access to births deaths and marriages.
It’s really an additional effort to counteract fraud. If I really am Mr Peregrinus DOB 01/01/1952 then I surely know my mothers maiden name ?
In saying that, if you leave it blank it won’t matter because there’s so much other information you have to provide.

Fred Swanson

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splinter65

Fred Swanson wrote: »

That assumes that my mother was married.

And if she wasnt then if you really are who you say you are then you would know that, and just put her birth surname in the box.

Fred Swanson

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splinter65

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Since when do you need ID to buy certs?

I have gotten certs many times and was never asked who I was let alone asked for ID.

I was asked for ID in the health centre in Cashel last year. She made a photocopy of my drivers licence

Claw Hammer

coylemj wrote: »

How do you do such a search? I can only see certificates.ie but they want payment before they reveal if you have supplied the correct data for a birth cert.

The pre 1958 details online only give the quarter in which the birth was registered. they do not give the date of birth. It might be easy or difficult to find someone's mothers maiden name depending on their age, how unique their name is and some other variables.

L1011

coylemj wrote: »

How do you do such a search? I can only see certificates.ie but they want payment before they reveal if you have supplied the correct data for a birth cert.

Familysearch to find the details, including mothers maiden name but not full DOB; trip to your local mormons by appointment (but still FOC) to get the full details same as would be printed on to a new copy cert

Everything including full DOB for most records after the 1930s until 2015 or so was available online for a few months before the DPC ruined the fun. Legal right to access still exists.

Ghekko

L1011 wrote: »

Everything including full DOB for most records after the 1930s until 2015 or so was available online for a few months before the DPC ruined the fun. Legal right to access still exists.

That was a great few weeks. I got Dh's original birth Cert and managed to find his birth mother with information on that website at the time. It was a sorry day in one way when it was taken down.

testicles

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Vetch

splinter65 wrote: »

I was asked for ID in the health centre in Cashel last year. She made a photocopy of my drivers licence

I'd be interested to know what the legal basis is for taking a photocopy of ID. If you apply by post to the GRO they don't ask for ID. Accessing the civil records on the Irish Genealogy site requires you insert a name but not anything else. Section 61, Civil Registration Act 2004 applies.

Fred Swanson

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Robbo

I've purchased Irish Certs in the office, in the last year, for cash with no ID required.