European Arrest Warrant - Drink & Dangerous driving.

TomGreen

Charged with drink driving and dangerous driving. This happened in Ireland and I now live in UK. 
Would I be correct in thinking that I can't be arrested under EAW as sentence for the crime isn't at least 1 year in prison. 
Appreciate the advice and yes it was stupid of me but I'm not in the position to rectify it currently.

lifeandtimes

talk to a solicitor, immediately or contact the gardai to execute any warrent that may be issued for you.

Ive no sympathy for drink drivers,especially ones who flee the country

TomGreen

Thanks for the response although it didn't answer question. I'm not from Ireland.

TomGreen

lifeandtimes wrote: »

talk to a solicitor, immediately or contact the gardai to execute any warrent that may be issued for you.

Ive no sympathy for drink drivers,especially ones who flee the country

I wasn't asking for your sympathy but seen as you mention it I've no sympathy for Fathers who have children and then won't pay to look after them.

Spook_ie

Regardless of an arrest warrant, a disqualification of your license in Ireland will be enforceable in the UK, dependent on Brexit I would imagine as the wheels do turn too slowly sometimes.

http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2017/mutual-recognition-driving-disqualifications-between-uk-and-ireland

As to if you could be convicted while absent for either of the offences, consult a solicitor, given the number of people who get off on technicalities it might well be in your interest to attend a court with a good solicitor in tow.

TomGreen

Thank you, I appreciate the response. I am hoping/expecting the case to be heard in my absence as that's what happen the first time around. I received a voicemail from the arresting Gardai telling me that the case was being heard in under 24hrs which meant that I wasn't required to attend. However the following paperwork never arrived from this and all efforts to contact the Gardai while I was in Ireland failed. Literally stood in station 5 times gave my details and asked to be contacted and never was.

I don't expect there to be any technicality issues as the dangerous driving is not recorded and would rely on Witness testimony from the two Gardai. As for the drink driving, the arresting Gardai has followed the procedure and I am aware that the onus is on the person charged to ensure they receive documentation so no point arguing that with Judge.

lifeandtimes

TomGreen wrote: »

I wasn't asking for your sympathy but seen as you mention it I've no sympathy for Fathers who have children and then won't pay to look after them.

Im really not sure how thats relevant to me?

How and ever your first post didnt have much detail and other than that came across that you were caught drink driving,left the country and where then convicted in court in your absence?

We cant give legal advice here other than to tell you to speak to solicitor

However as said i have no symptahy for drink drivers and that still stands

Spook_ie

Again, you do need to consult a solicitor, you will need to check if the case(s) can be heard in your absence, if it can't be heard in absence ( which I believe you will still need a solicitor to attend for you ) then you will likely be the subject of a bench arrest warrant.

Further reading here from an older thread

ohnonotgmail

TomGreen wrote: »

Charged with drink driving and dangerous driving. This happened in Ireland and I now live in UK.
Would I be correct in thinking that I can't be arrested under EAW as sentence for the crime isn't at least 1 year in prison.
Appreciate the advice and yes it was stupid of me but I'm not in the position to rectify it currently.

Dangerous driving can attract a sentence of a lot more than 1 year in prison. you really need to talk to a solicitor in ireland.

TomGreen

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

Charged with drink driving and dangerous driving. This happened in Ireland and I now live in UK.
Would I be correct in thinking that I can't be arrested under EAW as sentence for the crime isn't at least 1 year in prison.
Appreciate the advice and yes it was stupid of me but I'm not in the position to rectify it currently.

Dangerous driving can attract a sentence of a lot more than 1 year in prison.  you really need to talk to a solicitor in ireland.

If the case is held in the District Court which is true in my case then the maximum prison sentence is 6 months.

lifeandtimes

TomGreen wrote: »

If the case is held in the District Court which is true in my case then the maximum prison sentence is 6 months.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

there will a disqualification and possibly a 6 month prison sentence but that depends on the judge and how he preseives you not being in court(if you dont show up) and what follows so dont be so sure it will only be a 6 months

TomGreen

Judge can't change legislation, clearly states that 6 months is the maximum sentence that can be handed down in District Court. If he wishes to change the legislation specifically in my case then I look forward to a lengthy and public legal battle.

mrs.doubt.fire

TomGreen wrote: »

Thank you, I appreciate the response. I am hoping/expecting the case to be heard in my absence as that's what happen the first time around.

Oh my...that kinda changes things, see you should have mentioned that the first time (in your first post). Seem's like your in more bother than you thought you were, sorry but your gonna have to come back to Ireland and face the music on this one as it's not your first offence. To make it easier on your self and for an easier out come, as others have said...get an Irish solicitor asap and come back to face the music.

jimmycrackcorm

Spook_ie wrote:

Regardless of an arrest warrant, a disqualification of your license in Ireland will be enforceable in the UK, dependent on Brexit I would imagine as the wheels do turn too slowly sometimes.

In order to enforce this then the driver licencing details need to be known. If they're not presented in court then I doubt they will be followed up.

The most likely outcome is that the driver is recorded on PULSE and a subsequent stop and check will throw up the details. If you watch any of the UK police reality shows the equivalent happens all the time where people are stopped for minor issues and a radio check throws up outstanding issues.

TomGreen

Thanks Spooky for the advice. I have zero plans to be in Ireland in next 20 years.
So they can try me in my absence or get a bench warrant.

mrs.doubt.fire

TomGreen wrote: »

I have zero plans to be in Ireland in next 20 years.
So they can try me in my absence or get a bench warrant.

So why ask for advice if you have no intentions of ever coming back to Ireland ? Behave your self, being cocky will get you into more trouble and yes, Ireland and the UK have an agreement and you can be sent back kicking and screaming to answer in a court of law.

TomGreen

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

I have zero plans to be in Ireland in next 20 years.
So they can try me in my absence or get a bench warrant.

So why ask for advice if you have no intentions of ever coming back to Ireland ? Behave your self, being cocky will get you into more trouble and yes, Ireland and the UK have an agreement and you can be sent back kicking and screaming to answer in a court of law.

I was asking for advice in relation to the EAW. That issue has been cleared up, the agreement that the UK & Eire have is not applicable in this case. Thanks for your response anyways.

the dark phantom

The important thing is to stay out of trouble in Britain, If you don't come to the attention of the British authorities then you have a better chance of avoiding deportation to Ireland.
The old saying "What they don't know won't hurt them" applies here with regard to the British authorities, But if you cross their path they will find out quickly about any warrants from Ireland.

TomGreen

the dark phantom wrote: »

The important thing is to stay out of trouble in Britain, If you don't come to the attention of the British authorities then you have a better chance of avoiding deportation to Ireland.
The old saying "What they don't know won't hurt them" applies here with regard to the British authorities, But if you cross their path they will find out quickly about any warrants from Ireland.

Thanks, again the Warrants can't be acted upon in this case as the Crime does not have a prison sentence of 1 year or more. Check legislation on the European Arrest Warrant.

mrs.doubt.fire

the dark phantom wrote: »

The important thing is to stay out of trouble in Britain, ....

I honestly don't think he's capable of staying out of trouble, he'll be back in Ireland before he knows what happened LMAO

lifeandtimes

just to clarify you were caught not once but twice driving under the influence?

You have now left the country and a trial was expected to happen yet you received no documentation.

If you are stopped or checked in the UK by police or even in some airports you "could" be flagged for the outstanding warrent if it was issued( i doubt it wasnt) and deported back to ireland where you will face longer than a 6 month jail terms

TomGreen

lifeandtimes wrote: »

just to clarify you were caught not once but twice driving under the influence?

You have now left the country and a trial was expected to happen yet you received no documentation.

If you are stopped or checked in the UK by police or even in some airports you "could" be flagged for the outstanding warrent if it was issued( i doubt it wasnt) and deported back to ireland where you will face longer than a 6 month jail terms

Arrested Once for Drink driving, first offence ever in my life. Leaving a girl home after a night out, stupid thing to do. I was a student at the time.

lifeandtimes

Might want to hold your horses there and hopefully someone can clear this up

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/extradition_to_and_from_ireland.html

An European Arrest Warrant may be issued by a national judicial authority if the person whose return is sought is accused of an offence for which the maximum penalty is at least a year in prison or if he or she has been sentenced to a prison term of at least four months.

Would i be correct in thinking that if the judge was to proceed with the case in the absense of "tom green" and sentences him or her to 6 months in jail, then the EAW would be valid as they have been sentanced and are not due to be brought to court and are due to be imprisoned?

TomGreen

Correct, if they hear the case and impose a prison sentence of over 4 months then an EAW can be issued.

Spook_ie

Again, I strongly suggest, that you engage the services of a solicitor, and stop with the cockiness of " I'm not intending to set foot in Ireland for 20 years"

You committed an offence in Ireland, it will go to court, in your absence, they could adjudicate against you or they could just issue a bench warrant, a solicitor will tell you if they can actually try either or both in your absence, if settled in your absence then the judge upon hearing you are an absconder from the jurisdiction could well impose the 4 month term, just to ensure a EAW is valid and taken out.

Please clarify for every one, is this a first offence or are you saying you were found guilty once before? and that this is in fact a second offence of DUI.

Also re the Dangerous Driving Charge, was there an accident and if so were there injuries? or did you just pull some stupid driving maneuvers in front of the Gards

Spook_ie

Follow on discussion, if you are let out of the Garda Station after being charged with DuI or whatever, does that constitute being out on "bail" or is bail only set by a court?

Spook_ie

Re Follow on Discussion

The reason I ask is that Citizens Advice mention Station Bail, is this applicable to DuI charges or only certain crimes?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/bail_and_surety.html

Station Bail
After you are arrested and brought to a Garda station, the member in charge of the station may decide to release you on station bail. He or she will grant bail if he or she "considers it prudent to do so". He or she does not have the power to release you on bail if there is a court warrant for your detention.

If you are granted bail at the station, you will have to enter into a bond to appear in the District Court as agreed. You may have to pay a sum of money and you may also have to get an independent surety to guarantee that you will appear in court as agreed.

This may well bring into play further charges which do carry a 12 month penalty

Consequences of breaching a bail bond
If you do not appear in court as agreed, a bench warrant will be issued for your arrest. This means that the Gardai have been ordered to arrest you and bring you before the court.
The amount of money that was specified in the bail bond will be forfeited by you and/or your independent surety.
You will have committed a further criminal offence that carries a maximum penalty of a Class A fine and/or 12 months imprisonment. This sentence is set down in Section 13 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1984 as amended.
You will be refused bail in the future.

lifeandtimes

Spook_ie wrote: »

Again, I strongly suggest, that you engage the services of a solicitor, and stop with the cockiness of " I'm not intending to set foot in Ireland for 20 years"

You committed an offence in Ireland, it will go to court, in your absence, they could adjudicate against you or they could just issue a bench warrant, a solicitor will tell you if they can actually try either or both in your absence, if settled in your absence then the judge upon hearing you are an absconder from the jurisdiction could well impose the 4 month term, just to ensure a EAW is valid and taken out.

Please clarify for every one, is this a first offence or are you saying you were found guilty once before? and that this is in fact a second offence of DUI.

Also re the Dangerous Driving Charge, was there an accident and if so were there injuries? or did you just pull some stupid driving maneuvers in front of the Gards

The guards in this instance will advise the judge on the day that "tom green" was arrested and charged and told a court date will be issued.

Depending on if the guard and/or judge know if he has left the state( In my opinion it will be seen as "fled" the state as you knew there was a court date coming) will then make a judgement of a bench warrent or issue a custodial sentance to ensure an EAW is issued

Spook_ie wrote: »

Follow on discussion, if you are let out of the Garda Station after being charged with DuI or whatever, does that constitute being out on "bail" or is bail only set by a court?

bail is set by the court.

TomGreen

Thanks for the advice all. First offence spooky, dangerous driving is in relation to ' the speed the gardai witnessed' and nothing else no manoeuvres or crashes or anything of the sort. In fact I was parked up when the Gardai came to my car. 
In relation to me missing the first court date, this isn't applicable as I was told I didn't need to attend. Please see above for the reasoning.
I accept that there could be greater repercussions than I had first anticapted, I will seek legal advice and inform you all.

Spook_ie

lifeandtimes wrote: »

The guards in this instance will advise the judge on the day that "tom green" was arrested and charged and told a court date will be issued.

Depending on if the guard and/or judge know if he has left the state( In my opinion it will be seen as "fled" the state as you knew there was a court date coming) will then make a judgement of a bench warrent or issue a custodial sentance to ensure an EAW is issued



bail is set by the court.

What about this "Station Bail" mentioned?

TomGreen

There was no Bail in this case. by that I mean Station Bail, I was given a charge sheet and let go.

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Depending on if the guard and/or judge know if he has left the state( In my opinion it will be seen as "fled" the state as you knew there was a court date coming) will then make a judgement of a bench warrent or issue a custodial sentance to ensure an EAW is issued

If the accused has a foreign address a bench warrant can't be issued.

lifeandtimes

GM228 wrote: »

If the accused has a foreign address a bench warrant can't be issued.

This we dont know true but we would assume that tome gree is/was an irish resident at the time of the offence or they wouldnt be asking these questions on an irish forum and having missed an original court date based on a guards voicemail

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

bail is set by the court.

Bail can also be set by the Garda Sergeant (or other member in charge of the station), this is what is known as "Station Bail" - also to note is that Bail is not always a monetary matter either.

TomGreen

lifeandtimes wrote: »

GM228 wrote: »

If the accused has a foreign address a bench warrant can't be issued.

This we dont know true but we would assume that tome gree is/was an irish resident at the time of the offence or they wouldnt be asking these questions on an irish forum and having missed an original court date based on a guards voicemail

Correct

Spook_ie

TomGreen wrote: »

There was no Bail in this case. by that I mean Station Bail, I was given a charge sheet and let go.

But does that in itself constitute Station Bail? In that you committed an arrestable offence (DuI) and presumably where let out with the charge sheet when they were satisfied you were no longer at risk of driving under the influence.

TomGreen

Spook_ie wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

There was no Bail in this case. by that I mean Station Bail, I was given a charge sheet and let go.

But does that in itself constitute Station Bail? In that you committed an arrestable offence (DuI) and presumably where let out with the charge sheet when they were satisfied you were no longer at risk of driving under the influence.

I am unsure, seeking legal advice here.

GM228

TomGreen wrote: »

There was no Bail in this case. by that I mean Station Bail, I was given a charge sheet and let go.

Where you asked to attend the next sitting of the DC (or within 30 days after the next sitting)?

TomGreen

GM228 wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

There was no Bail in this case. by that I mean Station Bail, I was given a charge sheet and let go.

Where you asked to attend the next sitting of the DC (or within 30 days in Dublin)?

Given a date however this date was changed to a closer date and they were unable to give me 48hrs notice meaning I wasn't required to go to court. The arresting Gardai phoned me at 9am and left a voicemail case was to be heard after 10.30am sometime during that sitting.

Spook_ie

lifeandtimes wrote: »

This we dont know true but we would assume that tome gree is/was an irish resident at the time of the offence or they wouldnt be asking these questions on an irish forum and having missed an original court date based on a guards voicemail

Not sure how it works here, but watching some of the UK police shows set in the UK if you are non resident and charged with DuI they have a tendency to bring you before the magistrates the next day, so you can't skip

Spook_ie

TomGreen wrote: »

I am unsure, seeking legal advice here.

We aren't allowed to give legal advice here other than consult a solicitor, the threads do sometimes tease out other information that you may well be advised to reveal to a solicitor which may or may not impact on a case

GM228

TomGreen wrote: »

Given a date however this date was changed to a closer date and they were unable to give me 48hrs notice meaning I wasn't required to go to court. The arresting Gardai phoned me at 9am and left a voicemail case was to be heard after 10.30am sometime during that sitting.

Where you given a date within 30 days of them releasing you?

TomGreen

Spook_ie wrote: »

lifeandtimes wrote: »

This we dont know true but we would assume that tome gree is/was an irish resident at the time of the offence or they wouldnt be asking these questions on an irish forum and having missed an original court date based on a guards voicemail

Not sure how it works here, but watching some of the UK police shows set in the UK if you are non resident and charged with DuI they have a tendency to bring you before the magistrates the next day, so you can't skip

I believe they would have done this considering the time I was arrested was close to the next sitting. However small district court with far too many cases.

TomGreen

GM228 wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

Given a date however this date was changed to a closer date and they were unable to give me 48hrs notice meaning I wasn't required to go to court. The arresting Gardai phoned me at 9am and left a voicemail case was to be heard after 10.30am sometime during that sitting.

Where you given a date within 30 days of them releasing you?

I'm in work would need to look at documents was about 4-6 weeks but like I said case was heard much sooner than that. probably less than 2 weeks later.

GM228

TomGreen wrote: »

I'm in work would need to look at documents was about 4-6 weeks but like I said case was heard much sooner than that. probably less than 2 weeks later.

The thing is they release you under station bail when you undertake to attend the next sitting or any sitting within 30 days of the next sitting.

The next sitting could be a week or two (or more) away for example, add another 30 days and potentially 4-8 weeks is possible.

Being released on such condition is Station Bail.

TomGreen

GM228 wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

I'm in work would need to look at documents was about 4-6 weeks but like I said case was heard much sooner than that. probably less than 2 weeks later.

The thing is they release you under station bail when you undertake to attend the next sitting or any sitting within 30 days of the next sitting.

The next sitting could be a week or two (or more) away for example, add another 30 days and potentially 4-8 weeks is possible.

Being released on such condition is Station Bail.

Thanks for clearing that up. Station Bail the same as Bonded Bail in terms of criminal offence being committed?

TomGreen

GM228 wrote: »

TomGreen wrote: »

I'm in work would need to look at documents was about 4-6 weeks but like I said case was heard much sooner than that. probably less than 2 weeks later.

The thing is they release you under station bail when you undertake to attend the next sitting or any sitting within 30 days of the next sitting.

The next sitting could be a week or two (or more) away for example, add another 30 days and potentially 4-8 weeks is possible.

Being released on such condition is Station Bail.

Thanks for clearing that up. Station Bail the same as Bonded Bail in terms of criminal offence being committed?

GM228

TomGreen wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up. Station Bail the same as Bonded Bail in terms of criminal offence being committed?

Bail is bail, weather it is Station Bail or court imposed bail, failure to act in accordance with the recognisance is an offence.

lifeandtimes

GM228 wrote: »

Bail is bail, weather it is Station Bail or court imposed bail, failure to act in accordance with the recognisance is an offence.

So in accordance with this as the bail was broken and the imposed sentence can be up to a year,the judge is within his rights to issue an EAW?

TomGreen

lifeandtimes wrote: »

GM228 wrote: »

Bail is bail, weather it is Station Bail or court imposed bail, failure to act in accordance with the recognisance is an offence.

So in accordance with this as the bail was broken and the imposed sentence can be up to a year,the judge is within his rights to issue an EAW?

Correct, can you be arrested for not paying your Child support?

lifeandtimes

TomGreen wrote: »

Correct, can you be arrested for not paying your Child support?

No but how is that relevant to this discussion?