Bus Lane Observance

filbert the fox

Tuesday morning , Fairview from Howth Road through to Five Lamps......the last time I looked there was a 12 hour bus lane.

There is wholesale abuse of this and no enforcement.

I'm keen to observe the rules and I'm very frustrated.

Any chance the authorities would put a recording device to catch the violators
:eek:

deandean

Careful now! A lot of that route is a bus lane from 7-10am and noon-7pm.
In the slot from 10am till noon I drive in the bus lane, passing the huge queue that's normally in the car lane.

Yakuza

Pretty sure the inbound bus lane from the Fairview end of the Howth Road to the fire station is 7am-7pm Mon-Fri and 7am-10am Sat only (after the fire station it's 7-7 Mon-Sat). The bus lane from Clontarf is 7-7 Mon-Sat.

boombang

The buses in London have forward facing cameras that can be used to impose fines.

I see lots of abuse on my walk home. Mostly on Pearse St and at the Samuel Becket Bridge. I think in instances in which the state agencies don't enforce rules it should be open to private sector operators to bid to operate the system, with the fine revenue (after their costs) going to the state.

beauf

It quite common all over.

Sometimes its because they are in stupid layout which leave people no option but to enter them.

filbert the fox

beauf wrote: »

It quite common all over.

Sometimes its because they are in stupid layout which leave people no option but to enter them.

Please do not condone this behaviour. I can avoid going into them because I accept that they exist. It's the wanton abuse I'm talking about now.

brokenarms

The government wont put in ANPR cams as it may affect the next election.
Garda do enforce certain areas like Drumcondra quite often.

ED E

Little bit of joined up thinking.

Raspberry Pi - €10
Camera module - €5
Big red button - €1
Wifi - Already onboard, as is GPS

Bus driver blocked by a vehicle that shouldnt be there? Press big red button. Snap -> Email to Garda Road Policing


When drivers start getting FCPNs in the post left right and centre this will stop.

beauf

filbert the fox wrote: »

Please do not condone this behaviour. I can avoid going into them because I accept that they exist. It's the wanton abuse I'm talking about now.

Lack of enforcement of many rules/law is a problem all over.

But its also an issue if the road layout is such that people are blocked for unreasonable amounts of time, unless they use the bus lane to get around a right turning vehicle for example. Then dipping into the bus lane becomes a habit and ingrained in how people drive.

From then its a short leap to just ignoring that its a bus lane all the time.

Uriel.

There's also a situation where I've recently seen a garda having a word with a motorist who was driving legitimately in a "normal" lane, normal lane morphs into bus lane, driver attempts merge to inside other normal lane, traffic builds up, he can't merge completely and immediately and bam queue of taxis behind him at entrance to bus lane lying on the horn.

boombang

brokenarms wrote: »

The government wont put in ANPR cams as it may affect the next election.

Has this been flagged as an issue? I don't think I would switch my party preference, but I would definitely be pleased by a commitment to put in ANPRs. Mostly because I don't like the idea of others driving without tax and insurance while I do.

bk

Today I stood at a bus stop of one of the busiest core routes into the city, with about a dozen different major bus routes using the lane. I watch as roughly 1 in 5 cars sailed down the bus lane!!

Most shockingly I watched a Garda van drive down the same bus lane (as they are allowed to do), but with two cars in front of them and another behind! Bus lane breakers have no fear of even the Gardai! I was truly shocked.

As others suggested above, we should absolutely be equipping buses with ANPR cameras to catch and charge these people.

Failing that, then a special unit should be created in the Gardai to do it. We have Gardai doing speed checks and we have traffic wardens enforcing parking. Why not someone doing bus lanes!

They police bus lanes in Belfast with both fixed cameras and mobile cameras:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/enforcement-bus-lanes-and-bus-only-streets

Why can't we do the same?

The government is planning to spend Billions on public transport. 1 billion on buses alone, surely this would be a cheap (might even make you money) way of increasing capacity.

snowcat

bk wrote: »

Today I stood at a bus stop of one of the busiest core routes into the city, with about a dozen different major bus routes using the lane. I watch as roughly 1 in 5 cars sailed down the bus lane!!

Most shockingly I watched a Garda van drive down the same bus lane (as they are allowed to do), but with two cars in front of them and another behind! Bus lane breakers have no fear of even the Gardai! I was truly shocked.

As others suggested above, we should absolutely be equipping buses with ANPR cameras to catch and charge these people.

Failing that, then a special unit should be created in the Gardai to do it. We have Gardai doing speed checks and we have traffic wardens enforcing parking. Why not someone doing bus lanes!

They police bus lanes in Belfast with both fixed cameras and mobile cameras:



Why can't we do the same?

The government is planning to spend Billions on public transport. 1 billion on buses alone, surely this would be a cheap (might even make you money) way of increasing capacity.

Why not make it impractical for cars to enter. I have seen in Spain a collapsible rubber kerb separating the bus lane and the road. Emergency services etc can enter in an emergency.

Dravokivich

snowcat wrote: »

Why not make it impractical for cars to enter. I have seen in Spain a collapsible rubber kerb separating the bus lane and the road. Emergency services etc can enter in an emergency.

Not all bus lanes are 24/7.

I enter them early when approaching a junction I'm turning at because most of the time the road markings don't give you enough time to slow down safely without impacting traffic behind you.

Such as when coming off the n4 to get onto chapelizod and again coming off to get into balleyfermot. Whoever repainted them is incorrectly expecting you to just cut straight across into the turn off you wish to make.

boombang

snowcat wrote: »

Why not make it impractical for cars to enter. I have seen in Spain a collapsible rubber kerb separating the bus lane and the road. Emergency services etc can enter in an emergency.

I'd prefer people learn some sense than our streetscape further cluttered. Dublin footpaths are covered with bollards to stop people parking all over them, which makes the place look ugly and the pavement difficult to walk down.

Stephen15

brokenarms wrote: »

The government wont put in ANPR cams as it may affect the next election.

What's more shocking is that the electorate would be against law enforcement and justice if that's the case.

filbert the fox

Stephen15 wrote: »

What's more shocking is that the electorate would be against law enforcement and justice if that's the case.

Welcome to Ireland where nobody's gonna tell us what to do even if it's for the common good.

" We are all individuals "

Even if the powers that be erected a flashing red light during the times of operation of the bus lane then the psychological effect might make people think.

the trouble with familiarity is that it breeds contempt - like the AA warning to switch off your fogs.... this should be followed by COS THEY BLIND OTHER DRIVERS

Wheety

Bus drivers would be looking for extra money to press a button which takes a photo.

Stephen15

Wheety wrote: »

Bus drivers would be looking for extra money to press a button which takes a photo.

Nonsense why does someone always have to try and get a dig in at unions in every C+T thread. There has been no proposal for such a thing only suggestions from posters on this forum. Can we save the speculation until the powers whether that be The NTA, DB, AGS or DCC make a proposal.

Wishbone Ash

Wheety wrote: »

Bus drivers would be looking for extra money to press a button which takes a photo.

That's an easy fix - any bus driver who's not willing just has to mix it with the lawbreakers.

Any bus driver who's pissed off with abuse of the bus lanes has the option of pressing that button.

In my experience, bus drivers and taxi drivers are happy enough to go out of their way to impart their (usually incorrect) interpretation of the Road Traffic Regulations to cyclists legitimately using the bus lane without seeking any additional payments.

Isambard

i see at least some bus lanes in Cork have had their times altered so that they are all-day lanes vs peak hours only. Very disappointing

Macy0161

Stephen15 wrote: »

What's more shocking is that the electorate would be against law enforcement and justice if that's the case.

It'd be "shooting fish in a barrel"...

ANPR doesn't seem to be on the agenda at all. The only conclusion can be that it would be too politically unpopular, but I've no idea why the supposedly independent RSA aren't pushing it. The whole debate is about the need for more in the Traffic Corp, when so much could be much more efficiently (and less randomly) enforced by ANPR - tax, insurance, unlicenced driver (they don't need 2 or more cops and a road block); Red Lights; Yellow Boxes; Bus Lanes; Mandatory Cycle Lanes; Speeding. Free up limited human resources for other enforcement.

Del2005

ED E wrote: »

Little bit of joined up thinking.

Raspberry Pi - €10
Camera module - €5
Big red button - €1
Wifi - Already onboard, as is GPS

Bus driver blocked by a vehicle that shouldnt be there? Press big red button. Snap -> Email to Garda Road Policing


When drivers start getting FCPNs in the post left right and centre this will stop.

The Gardai have email! Any contact would have to go into PULSE and I don't think that can except emails.

To be fair the abuse of bus lanes is the least problem with traffic in our cities. I remember when you used to Amber gamble now traffic just flows through red lights and the gamble is trying to proceed with caution on green. The complete lack of speed enforcement on anything bar high quality roads, I was following a Garda van behind a car towing a trailer at 100kn/h and they did nothing. The dangerous parking and driving at school start and end times. Never mind the phone usage and new idea of mounting your phone smack in the middle of the windscreen, saw people using a tablet for sat nav blocking most of the windscreen. These are also the ninja cyclists usually going the wrong way on the road.

So if the powers don't want to enforce actually dangerous activities that people do on the road they definitely aren't going to start enforcing something that while inconsiderate isn't dangerous.

LeinsterDub

ED E wrote: »

Little bit of joined up thinking.

Raspberry Pi - €10
Camera module - €5
Big red button - €1
Wifi - Already onboard, as is GPS

Bus driver blocked by a vehicle that shouldnt be there? Press big red button. Snap -> Email to Garda Road Policing


When drivers start getting FCPNs in the post left right and centre this will stop.

A big red button? The NBRU really would need 10% for that.

brokenarms

I would take great joy in pressing a big red button.
It would be great revenge to all those middle fingers I get when I toot my horn at them for blocking the lane ..

If only the big red button operated machine guns instead.

bk

You could offer bus drivers 10% of any fine collected. I'm sure they would be delighted hitting that red button every 30 seconds

ED E

Del2005 wrote: »

The Gardai have email! Any contact would have to go into PULSE and I don't think that can except emails.

To be fair the abuse of bus lanes is the least problem with traffic in our cities. I remember when you used to Amber gamble now traffic just flows through red lights and the gamble is trying to proceed with caution on green. The complete lack of speed enforcement on anything bar high quality roads, I was following a Garda van behind a car towing a trailer at 100kn/h and they did nothing. The dangerous parking and driving at school start and end times. Never mind the phone usage and new idea of mounting your phone smack in the middle of the windscreen, saw people using a tablet for sat nav blocking most of the windscreen. These are also the ninja cyclists usually going the wrong way on the road.

So if the powers don't want to enforce actually dangerous activities that people do on the road they definitely aren't going to start enforcing something that while inconsiderate isn't dangerous.

The Gardai make one call Castlebar not because they can't digitize it but because they dont want the increased load.

Countless other jurisdictions have implemented easy reporting systems, we'll probably get one in 2050.

snowcat

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not all bus lanes are 24/7.

I enter them early when approaching a junction I'm turning at because most of the time the road markings don't give you enough time to slow down safely without impacting traffic behind you.

Such as when coming off the n4 to get onto chapelizod and again coming off to get into balleyfermot. Whoever repainted them is incorrectly expecting you to just cut straight across into the turn off you wish to make.

You are breaking the law then and could be fined.

Technocentral

That's a first, motorcycle cop stopped a woman on bus lane in front of bus I'm on just now on Finglas Road.

Macy0161

Saw someone pulled by a motorbike cop on the N11 approaching Donnybrook Bus Garage this morning (they were being ticketed on Beaver Row) as well. It was completely random, and the motorist would probably have a point they were "unlucky" as based on my limited time in the traffic between Nutley Lane and Beaver Row, they were maybe 1 out of 15 motorists doing it.

Same cop had ignored people doing illegal U turns at the cut out just before - they'd be better having a camera and just driving around and issuing the fines later based on footage!

GBX

Im assuming it was introduced in the NDP or something but the bus lane from the Red Cow interchange outbound is a bit of a waste and the source of much confusion. I work close by and see so many drivers who assume its into the bus lane to take the exit for Belgard Road/Clondalkin.

69x with frequence of what once a day? and some of the Bus Eireann routes?

I have only ever seen one person stopped for using by the Garda

Danjamin1

There's very little observance of bus lanes from the vast majority as far as I can see. On my inbound commute on Dolphin's Barn Street there's a bus lane adjacent to the driving lane over the bridge and the main queue of traffic is sitting in the bus lane. As a result you can usually drive correctly in the driving lane and end up near the top of the queue. At this point the driving lane becomes a right turn only lane and the bus lane ends & becomes the driving lane. As a result of the queue sitting in the bus lane you occasionally get blocked from merging even though you've driven correctly on the road layout. It's a horrible layout, a lot of the time due to lack of space to merge people just sit in the right turn only lane & proceed straight through the junction. The exact same issue arises in the opposite direction past the Coombe. There's no enforcement, I often think if a Garda pulled up anywhere along that section to enforce the bus lane they'd hit any quota for issuing FCPN's within an hour.

purcela

filbert the fox wrote: »

Tuesday morning , Fairview from Howth Road through to Five Lamps......the last time I looked there was a 12 hour bus lane.

There is wholesale abuse of this and no enforcement.

I'm keen to observe the rules and I'm very frustrated.

Any chance the authorities would put a recording device to catch the violators
:eek:

I cycle this route every morning for the last year and the number of private cars in the bus lane is disgraceful. I have seen police pulling cars in twice in the last 12 months, they had parked up in North Strand and must have issued countless fines. Twice in a year is not enough though when this is an every day occurrence.

Dravokivich

snowcat wrote: »

You are breaking the law then and could be fined.

I'm well aware of that. Those lanes weren't always set the way they are now and they present a hazard. If a gard was to pull me over for it, they'll be beckoning me to move on for a while because there's be nowhere to stop safely.

highdef

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not all bus lanes are 24/7.

I enter them early when approaching a junction I'm turning at because most of the time the road markings don't give you enough time to slow down safely without impacting traffic behind you.

Such as when coming off the n4 to get onto chapelizod and again coming off to get into balleyfermot. Whoever repainted them is incorrectly expecting you to just cut straight across into the turn off you wish to make.

I exit the N4 eastbound heading into Chapelizod and have absolutely no issues exiting from where it becomes legal to do so, as per the road markings. There is nothing at all wrong with the road markings.

The only issue that can occur is drivers who intend to exit the N4 and have some obsession with entering the bus lane around or just after the Apple Green service station, which is a couple of hundred metres before the legal exit point. I've no idea why they insist doing this as all it does is make it more awkward for those who are trying to exit the N4 in the correct and legal way.

filbert the fox

Danjamin1 wrote: »

There's very little observance of bus lanes from the vast majority as far as I can see. On my inbound commute on Dolphin's Barn Street there's a bus lane adjacent to the driving lane over the bridge and the main queue of traffic is sitting in the bus lane. As a result you can usually drive correctly in the driving lane and end up near the top of the queue. At this point the driving lane becomes a right turn only lane and the bus lane ends & becomes the driving lane. As a result of the queue sitting in the bus lane you occasionally get blocked from merging even though you've driven correctly on the road layout. It's a horrible layout, a lot of the time due to lack of space to merge people just sit in the right turn only lane & proceed straight through the junction. The exact same issue arises in the opposite direction past the Coombe. There's no enforcement, I often think if a Garda pulled up anywhere along that section to enforce the bus lane they'd hit any quota for issuing FCPN's within an hour.

I know this area and it's Bizzare

monument

I was around Harold's Cross the other day and got off a bus because the traffic was so bad and so I took some general photographs of the cars in bus lane.

One of the motorists starting verbally abusing me for it but she had a good point between foaming at the mouth and giving me the finger (I waved at her)... anyway her point was that if she didn’t merge into the bus lane it was near impossible to merge closer to the junction.

A lot of people — rightly or wrongly — just need a bit of incentive not to use the bus lane. If they are unwilling to do cammra enforcement, a mix of infrastructure and Garda action is needed.

In central areas like this, traffic Gardai on bicycles (as they have in London) would be able to get more than those on motorbikes or cars... but clearly a mix is needed.

bk

Technocentral wrote: »

That's a first, motorcycle cop stopped a woman on bus lane in front of bus I'm on just now on Finglas Road.

Macy0161 wrote: »

Saw someone pulled by a motorbike cop on the N11 approaching Donnybrook Bus Garage this morning (they were being ticketed on Beaver Row) as well. It was completely random, and the motorist would probably have a point they were "unlucky" as based on my limited time in the traffic between Nutley Lane and Beaver Row, they were maybe 1 out of 15 motorists doing it.

While I'm delighted to hear that the Gardai are enforcing the law, however it is the wrong approach. Stopping cars in the bus lane just slows down the buses even further then if they didn't stop them.

The correct approach is a fleet of 4 or 5 cars like in Belfast with cameras mounted on them. They can park on the side of the road and catch lane breakers as they drive by and send them penalty notices in the post. The message would get out very quickly.

It really wouldn't take much resources, a fleet of 4 or 5 cars operating during peak times would easily cover the core bus lanes at least one or two days a week per route at different locations.

Macy0161

bk wrote: »

While I'm delighted to hear that the Gardai are enforcing the law, however it is the wrong approach. Stopping cars in the bus lane just slows down the buses even further then if they didn't stop them.

On the N11 they normally pull them up onto the cycle lane, forcing cyclists onto the road! But in this case, they had them pulled around the corner on beaver row, not blocking anyone. I don't know whether that was accident or design, as the motorist could've been taking the left anyway.

trellheim

I've seen all of those and Blackhall place bus lane northbound merge at Nth King at junction beats them all, its the only bus lane I know where the bus driver goes up the regular lane and forces his way back in ( and rightly so, there so many knobs in the bus lane )

Capt'n Midnight

ED E wrote: »

Little bit of joined up thinking.

Raspberry Pi - €10
Camera module - €5
Big red button - €1
Wifi - Already onboard, as is GPS

Bus driver blocked by a vehicle that shouldnt be there? Press big red button. Snap -> Email to Garda Road Policing


When drivers start getting FCPNs in the post left right and centre this will stop.

You don't need special hardware. Box and holder and red buttons are expensive.

This is smartphone app stuff. No SIM , no contract because it's using WiFi.
You might have to buy a holder for the phone but that's off the shelf.

Then again since the buses already carry CCTV support this is something that could be done yesterday.



24 hour bus lanes on the outer ring road.

The one the really gets me is when Fire Engines used to go down the wrong side of the Belgard Road because the Bus Lane was solid. Something most of the commuters in said bus lane would have seen before.

PeterParker957

MOD: Peter that is off topic, thanks, start a new thread if you want.

purcela

Walking through North Strand this morning I kept an eye on the bus lane out of curiosity and I'm not exaggerating when I say that every second vehicle in the bus lane was a private car from the fire station to the bridge.
It's not just bus lanes though. In East Wall cars coming from Alfie Byrne Road to East Wall road do illegal u-turns opposite the car garage every evening so they can go down East Wall Road towards North Strand. Then there's the now standard minimum 2 cars going through a junction after the lights turn red. Zero policing of the roads leads to change in driver's behaviours.

bebeman

Macy0161 wrote: »

On the N11 they normally pull them up onto the cycle lane, forcing cyclists onto the road! .

Funny stuff this.
Cyclists don't use the bike lane on the N11.
"its not safe , too many holes, broken glass"
Cyclist can't have it both ways , complain about the state of bike lanes and don't use them, and now bitch about cars blocking them, pick one you can't choose both.

magicbastarder

i think you may find that Macy0161 does not speak for all cyclists.
i avoid the topic by avoiding the N11 altogether. by most accounts, it's a hostile environment for cyclists.

Isambard

It astonishes me that the Irish take any notice of traffic lights, given their sometimes cavalier attitude to the Law and the lack of enforcement.

doolox

When a bus lane becomes a left turn lane as mentioned before the turn lane is often too short and makes the driver cut in sharply to make the turn often crossing in front of traffic in the buslane, taxis, busses, and early entrants into the bus lane. I have found it handier to enter early, not too early and be prepared to allow late entrants in ahead of you at the exact point where the buslane becomes a left only lane. At least you are in full control of what is going on rather than moving in late and being possibly hit at your blind spot from behind.

I have seen the results of this often in my travels and would rather take the 80 euro hit for disobeying a political construct than the real penalty of life-long back injury from being hit by a faster car from behind.

dashcamdanny

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You don't need special hardware. Box and holder and red buttons are expensive.

This is smartphone app stuff. No SIM , no contract because it's using WiFi.
You might have to buy a holder for the phone but that's off the shelf.

Then again since the buses already carry CCTV support this is something that could be done yesterday.



24 hour bus lanes on the outer ring road.

The one the really gets me is when Fire Engines used to go down the wrong side of the Belgard Road because the Bus Lane was solid. Something most of the commuters in said bus lane would have seen before.

The CCTV on buses are for Dublin bus to investigate accidents and incidents only. Its content is the property of DB. And even at that, there is very strict rules on what can be used.
It will never be used for parking or bus lane enforcement IMO.

We are not allowed to operate any electrical device in the cab as it could result in instant dismissal. (other than a small radio which seems to be acceptable in most cases). It would be contradictory for the company to suggest that we would have to operate a camera.

dashcamdanny

doolox wrote: »

When a bus lane becomes a left turn lane as mentioned before the turn lane is often too short and makes the driver cut in sharply to make the turn often crossing in front of traffic in the buslane, taxis, busses, and early entrants into the bus lane. I have found it handier to enter early, not too early and be prepared to allow late entrants in ahead of you at the exact point where the buslane becomes a left only lane. At least you are in full control of what is going on rather than moving in late and being possibly hit at your blind spot from behind.

I have seen the results of this often in my travels and would rather take the 80 euro hit for disobeying a political construct than the real penalty of life-long back injury from being hit by a faster car from behind.

The very busy Junction at Collins Ave and the Swords Rd (N1)was becoming a big problem for buses because of the actions you describe.
Now the 24hr bus lane has bollards the whole length of the BL till about 15 meters from the lights, where cars can enter the left turn lane properly.
It is not dangerous in any way and now operates perfectly as intended. Regular traffic no longer enters the bus lane and must wait. This is what should happen everywhere there is a 24hr lane.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3818862,-6.2447131,17.07z

AlekSmart

doolox wrote: »

When a bus lane becomes a left turn lane as mentioned before the turn lane is often too short and makes the driver cut in sharply to make the turn often crossing in front of traffic in the buslane, taxis, busses, and early entrants into the bus lane. I have found it handier to enter early, not too early and be prepared to allow late entrants in ahead of you at the exact point where the buslane becomes a left only lane. At least you are in full control of what is going on rather than moving in late and being possibly hit at your blind spot from behind.

I have seen the results of this often in my travels and would rather take the 80 euro hit for disobeying a political construct than the real penalty of life-long back injury from being hit by a faster car from behind.

If that €80 "hit" were to be automatically imposed on a daily basis without fail,would it alter your approach ?

It actually does come down to the Greater Good principle,with disruption to the Private Motorists normal actions being held unacceptable,even if it improves the commute of 70 other Public Transport using people.

The N4 inbound each morning,is one where I notice the constant flow of motorists entering the Bus Lane after the M50 junction.....leaving the left hand indicator on until reaching the John's Road junction is,apparently,a guarantee of safety...even if a sudden (unsignalled) departure from the Bus Lane has to be carried out when an occasional BUS occupies the lane and stops to cater for passengers :eek:

Reality,Irish style is that there is ZERO enforcement,and over the long-term this renders the legislation basically worthless.

It's just how we do things here....

Isambard

doolox wrote: »

When a bus lane becomes a left turn lane as mentioned before the turn lane is often too short and makes the driver cut in sharply to make the turn often crossing in front of traffic in the buslane, taxis, busses, and early entrants into the bus lane. I have found it handier to enter early, not too early and be prepared to allow late entrants in ahead of you at the exact point where the buslane becomes a left only lane. At least you are in full control of what is going on rather than moving in late and being possibly hit at your blind spot from behind.

I have seen the results of this often in my travels and would rather take the 80 euro hit for disobeying a political construct than the real penalty of life-long back injury from being hit by a faster car from behind.

you may feel you are in full control but actually you are part of the problem. There's no answer to it except to have zero tolerance and fine everyone who does it. Bus lane cameras are common in the UK and a useful fund raiser for local councils.