school closures

techteacher

with the current warnings and possible school closures to take place what is the plan for rescheduled classes, is my 2 week med cruise in trouble?:D

what days are going to be allocated from the easter break?

https://www.independent.ie/weather/storm-emma-will-impact-everybody-people-need-to-be-aware-national-emergency-coordination-group-36644094.html

RealJohn

It’s yet another area in which teachers get it worse than the average. If any other place of business closes due to the snow, the staff aren’t expected to give up holidays to make the time up. Why should we? A couple of days out of school isn’t the end of the world for students.

techteacher

very true for our industry yet again we are punished.... but technology may rescue us I have got sanction from the head of our ETB for a blended learning trial to commence next week so timing may be good

byhookorbycrook

It's up to each school to decide what to do. At primary, time may made up in several ways without having to open over the holidays by prioritizing tuition time - no school tour/sports' day/end of the year concert etc., cut the allocated time for assembly each day (20 mins- rolla can easily be done in 5) and so on. Some parents don't care about tuition time, it's about child care for them- these are often the parents whose child is late each day or those who take holidays during term time.

If schools are pressured by the need to open over the holidays, will schools open and then immediately close to "save days" in future? If one teacher gets in by tractor 4x4 and opens the building, the school is technically open , but do we really want to be doing that- what about the children who get in too? Are parents going to be happy to have the child sent home due to lack of supervision, never mind teaching?

There was a lot of huffing and puffing about Storm Ophelia not being as severe as expected in some areas, but remember that 4 people died during the storm. What about the school that says it is open if a red level warning is issued- are the BOM responsible for any injuries people sustain on the way in or going home?

Many parents will already have booked holidays for Easter too, don't forget. If we were to miss a week, I could see a need to make up a day or two, but there will be school tomorrow and Wednesday in most places, I'd imagine.

roytheboyo

Jes ye teachers give out a ridiculous amount. Afraid a day or 2 out of your outrageous holidays might be sacrificed, ye poor babas

spurious

roytheboyo wrote: »

Jes ye teachers give out a ridiculous amount. Afraid a day or 2 out of your outrageous holidays might be sacrificed, ye poor babas

And to think you could go train as one of the special club too.
Off you go.
Please post in English if you return.

janes1234

Anyone heard from their school about closures?

byhookorbycrook

Nope, no snow here, so no closure. Closures will only happen if schools are in a red alert area in any case.

deiseindublin

I'm in the East. Wondering when we'll know much more. There's seems to be lots of ifs buts and maybes so far.

spurious

A friend of mine who subs was all set to go to a south-eastern school for Wed and Thurs but they have cancelled her, so some places are planning ahead.

sullivlo

janes1234 wrote: »

Anyone heard from their school about closures?

Just to say that there is a weather warning so keep an eye on the website for updates. Texts will be sent if the school is to close. A staff training thing that was scheduled for Thursday after school has been cancelled. We are on a whole school day for JCT on Wednesday which seems to be going ahead.

Makes planning lessons difficult. Due to do a practical today, and have class on Thursday, but if school is closed on Thursday, the experiment will be ruined. I could take it off on Wednesday and hope for the best, because practicals need to be done and time is running out! My 6th years are going to panic. We miss a class Wednesday and a double Thursday if school closes. Bad timing. Guess we’ll be having lunchtime classes for a few weeks to catch back up.

doc_17

I'd say it'll only really be Friday that there will be a problem nationwide.

ASISEEIT

Let it snow let it snow!

Noveight

doc_17 wrote: »

I'd say it'll only really be Friday that there will be a problem nationwide.

Yep, that’s what it looks like from the forecast on TV3. Late in the day Friday at that.

mirrorwall14

I've given most senior classes and some juniors work for the days off if they arise. Basically laid out the plan for Wed-Fri, made it slightly shorter as no demonstration possible and made them mark it in their copies. Like I don't have 5th years until Thursday. If they are out, they have the work and they know its due Monday

dory

Will we say a quick decade of the rosary for a snow day? Who wants to start us off?

byhookorbycrook

dory wrote: »

Will we say a quick decade of the rosary for a snow day? Who wants to start us off?

I'll see your decade and raise you a
https://aleteia.org/2018/01/03/is-there-a-patron-saint-of-snow-days/

janes1234

Oh god I am praying. The schools have to take precautions

evolving_doors

Left to schools locally to decide. So presume the day has to be made up.
Is that sports day gone

Postgrad10

Or a day at Easter?

gaiscioch

For the sake of fairness to employees, I assume this making up of snow days with our holidays works both ways; if it snows like this on our holidays will they extend our holidays by the same number of days?...

I was more than available and willing to go to work this morning. In Dublin/city traffic the roads are much easier to navigate on snow days than they are in remote rural areas.

Redser87

I would thank that post 10 times if I could!

mirrorwall14

There's a full circular on this. Coming in on Easter is the last resort for extended closures that cannot be made up any other way. My guess is in our place the LC's will be kept in class longer and the summer exams start will be pushed back

Powerhouse

Red alert for Munster and Leinster tomorrow and Friday has been announced. Given that last night's snowfall was underestimated this could be worse than thought. Unless Bruton is utterly craven and weak the obvious thing is to announce blanket closure of schools in red alert areas and at least provide that certainty. But fear and PR concerns will ultimately govern this. When it is the best PR move to close schools on the basis of government announcement it will be done and not before that. Safety will not be considered.

Powerhouse

So they got someone else to make the decision for them instead. Red alert area schools closed Thursday and Friday.

punisher5112

Some schools shut but some are open including areas badly affected.

Powerhouse

punisher5112 wrote: »

Some schools shut but some are open including areas badly affected.

A red alert has been declared for Munster & Leinster for Thursday and Friday and it has been announced that schools in those areas will be closed.

evolving_doors

Powerhouse wrote: »

A red alert has been declared for Munster & Leinster for Thursday and Friday and it has been announced that schools in those areas will be closed.

I think there might be a subtle difference. Has the dept. issued a blanket declaration Or are they saying that all schools are taking the decision themselves to follow the code red and announce closures.

killbillvol2

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think there might be a subtle difference. Has the dept. issued a blanket declaration Or are they saying that all schools are taking the decision themselves to follow the code red and announce closures.

The decision was made by the National Emergency Coordination Committee.

Hoboo

They're closed until Monday. Mandatory blanket closure......pubs are starting to fill already.

MacGyver007

Statement on Dept website

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2018-press-releases/PR18-02-28.html

dory

dory wrote: »

Will we say a quick decade of the rosary for a snow day? Who wants to start us off?

You can all thank me for my praying. Was at it all night!

Chancer3001

does anybody have the circular or the inside track on making up these days?

Just rumours of yes / no at the moment

km79

Chancer3001 wrote: »

does anybody have the circular or the inside track on making up these days?

Just rumours of yes / no at the moment

It’s in link posted 2 Up

Chancer3001

in the case of second level schools ensuring examination classes attend
all classes to the end of May.

thats from the circular.

So they CAN get away with saying to 6th years to come in after their graduation mass for example.

but whether not not they WILL do this , or theyll make us come in remains to be seen

acequion

I've an away holiday booked for the first week at Easter and no way will I cancel it,however I may be sanctioned. Family comes first!

Chancer3001

Im sure colleagues will cover classes

acequion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Im sure colleagues will cover classes

You being smart? Not appreciated if you are.:mad:

Firstly, being forced to go to work during official holiday time would set another precedent for yet another hit on ever worsening working conditions. Yes that preposterous contingency has been in the books for some time,brought in during one of the condition worsening, or sorry "reform" agreements! But to actually see it happen would be a new low.

Secondly, if it happens I hope that like me several collegues would also be away enjoying some quality family time or is that no longer allowed? In my school, it seems that several have booked to go away those very days.

Thirdly, I would neither want nor accept anybody "covering" for me. If this comes to pass I will take whatever sanction will undoubtedly be meted out.

Two threads on this forum are on the teacher shortage. Small wonder!!

Chancer3001

Actually not being smart at all.

Your back must be up for some reason.

I know if it was my school and somebody was stuck with a booked holiday , we'd probably just cover them for the 2 days.

Or they'd call in sick. Or use force majeure days.

I assume not showing up for these days would be the same as not showing up for regular work

acequion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Actually not being smart at all.

Your back must be up for some reason.

I know if it was my school and somebody was stuck with a booked holiday , we'd probably just cover them for the 2 days.

Or they'd call in sick. Or use force majeure days.

I assume not showing up for these days would be the same as not showing up for regular work

No I don't accept what you say at all!

And yes my back is up for the reason that on top of all the new "normals" we have accepted, the employer demanding that we use official holiday time to recover time from school closures beyond our control being accepted as "normal" by ordinary teachers is very, very worrying.

It is totally not the same as not showing up for regular work. Can you not see that?

It is not the same as taking a sick or a force majeure day. You do that during working time NOT official holiday time.

Only having holidays if the weather is ok is like a stupid Irish joke, only it's not a joke. It's actually a reality. And it's very much incumbent on staffs all around the country to ensure that all the other avenues are covered so that holiday time is not touched.

Holidays is one of the very few things left in teaching that will encourage new entrants. And with increasing demands on a teacher's time holidays are probably the only time left for real quality time with your family. And sorry but for me that is by far the most important.

Chancer3001

I'm sure there are ways around it.

Like keeping in 6th years after graduation masses to make up the days.

Like I posted earlier.

However I can see the government's point on this one. If we close for a long time (over a week say) we should try to make up a few days for the exam classes.

Also it's not just an Irish thing. Happens very regularly in the US for example. A quick Google will show it's common practice in many countries

acequion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I'm sure there are ways around it.

Like keeping in 6th years after graduation masses to make up the days.

Like I posted earlier.

However I can see the government's point on this one. If we close for a long time (over a week say) we should try to make up a few days for the exam classes.

Also it's not just an Irish thing. Happens very regularly in the US for example. A quick Google will show it's common practice in many countries

And we all know what a horrible working environment American teachers have. And we also know That Americans place work above all else. Is that how you want us to be? I don't. Even though we're three quarters there already.

And I don't see the Govt's point. I would see their point if these closures were a once a decade event but they're not. All too frequently we get red weather alerts and mostly it's a storm in a tea cup. This is the second time this school year that we've had to close. I'm not saying that the closures are always unjustified but many times they are and it really is unacceptable to then be forced to make up the time. Unofficially I will probably give a few lunch time classes to 6th years because we just can't afford all the absences when you count in the JC days as well. But's that's unofficial and that's just me. Most teachers will quietly and unofficially do something similar as teacher are conscientious beings.

And yes the other avenues that you mention should be insisted upon by staffs everywhere.

meep

acequion wrote: »

You being smart? Not appreciated if you are.:mad:

Yes that preposterous contingency has been in the books for some time,brought in during one of the condition worsening, or sorry "reform" agreements! But to actually see it happen would be a new low.

So conditions were agreed to by unions on the basis that they were never realisticaly expected to be implemented?

Interesting.

What other elements in the agreements would teachers reasonably not expect to actualy adhere to?

icebergiceberg

If days have to be made up, for Easter for example, and you have booked your holiday and decide to go on holiday what sanctions are in place for this?

Has anyone ever been sanctioned in this way? Who does the sanctioning?

'I'm not giving up two days of my Easter/Christmas etc holidays. I've already booked a family holiday'.

Has management the right to ask for confirmation of the date of the booking?

Isn't using a Force Majuere day under these circumstances lying?

acequion

meep wrote: »

So conditions were agreed to by unions on the basis that they were never realisticaly expected to be implemented?

Interesting.

What other elements in the agreements would teachers reasonably not expect to actualy adhere to?

Are you a teacher? If you are, you will be completely familiar with everything that unions have and haven't agreed to since the economy crashed in 2008 and will have your own views on the matter whether they concur or not with mine.

If you're not a teacher but are genuinely interested, I suggest you look it up.You'll find any amount of information at www.asti.ie and www.tui.ie Plus any amount of discussions and viewpoints on these threads if you care to read through them.

If you're just looking to pick an argument with a teacher,sorry to disappoint you but I don't engage in discussing teaching related issues with the general public.

Bananaleaf

I had all my classes pre-warned that this was a possibility and so had all of them make sure they were signed up to Edmodo. I have posted a class lesson for each of my timetabled classes today and will do so again tomorrow and Friday. I have had no indication that a single person has logged on to accept or do the work today and seeing as I have also assigned them quizzes, which haven't been done, I presume nobody has.

I find it hard to (and refuse to) take the guff given by parents who are raging that we are "off again", if their kids aren't even (a) bothered and (b) made to log on and do the assigned work.

km79

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I had all my classes pre-warned that this was a possibility and so had all of them make sure they were signed up to Edmodo. I have posted a class lesson for each of my timetabled classes today and will do so again tomorrow and Friday. I have had no indication that a single person has logged on to accept or do the work today and seeing as I have also assigned them quizzes, which haven't been done, I presume nobody has.

I find it hard to (and refuse to) take the guff given by parents who are raging that we are "off again", if their kids aren't even (a) bothered and (b) made to log on and do the assigned work.

I have said the same to my classes for Friday just in case
I suppose in effect it could be viewed as working from home..........

acequion

icebergiceberg wrote: »

If days have to be made up, for Easter for example, and you have booked your holiday and decide to go on holiday what sanctions are in place for this?

Has anyone ever been sanctioned in this way? Who does the sanctioning?

'I'm not giving up two days of my Easter/Christmas etc holidays. I've already booked a family holiday'.

Has management the right to ask for confirmation of the date of the booking?

Isn't using a Force Majuere day under these circumstances lying?

A very interesting question and one which has no precedent. And for that very reason I would urge teachers to make sure that all the other possibilities are used so as to never expose their collegues to this type of thing.

But as we have seen all sorts of heretofore unimaginables in the teaching profession this past decade, this type of scenario is very likely and one does wonder what indeed would happen.

My own view is that the worst would be that the teacher take unpaid days.It's still unacceptable imo.

r93kaey5p2izun

Our school facebook is full of parents going mad at the prospect of opening at Easter, giving out and saying we have no right to take away the kids' holidays. I hope our principal takes note!

acequion

Sky Wrong Fighter wrote: »

Our school facebook is full of parents going mad at the prospect of opening at Easter, giving out and saying we have no right to take away the kids' holidays. I hope our principal takes note!

Did your principal announce that ye would open at Easter?

r93kaey5p2izun

acequion wrote: »

Did your principal announce that ye would open at Easter?

Not exactly. But this possibility of opening during midterm/Easter is something he is obsessed with. He includes it as a reminder in emails and staff notices throughout the year. He also mentioned it as a possibility in a letter sent home to parents on Monday advising them to watch the website and update phone numbers for text alerts for the expected bad weather.