Constructive input- welcome or invasive?

Safiri

Just throwing out a feeler there on people's thoughts on this. I see a lot of people are crying out for this on the forum but what are your thoughts on actually recieving it? Is it something you see as valuable and something you pay heed to? Or is it just invasive criticism?

skyblue46

Safiri wrote: »

Just throwing out a feeler there on people's thoughts on this. I see a lot of people are crying out for this on the forum but what are your thoughts on actually recieving it? Is it something you see as valuable and something you pay heed to? Or is it just invasive criticism?

I think if someone asks for input then they should be prepared to accept whatever comes their way be that critical or supportive. I would anyway. I might not agree with the advice but I'd judge that on a case by case basis.

Testosterscone

If you post on a discussion forum in my opinion your content should be open to discussion why else post? The best content comes from differences of opinions and these days with so many blindly following plans a bit of critic evaluation with a healthy dollop of experience and difference of opinions will help you make an informed decision and if you are confident in your decisions and reasons why you are doing something then it will reaffirm your confidence in the approach.

People should not take offence at someone being critical much like people shouldn't take offence in there advice being ignored.

The only caveat I would say to this is a bit of self awareness and common sense, don't go taking a pop at peoples approaches to a marathon the week of that full taper madness has kicked in and likewise "I told you so" type posts can hold off a couple of days after a bad race/session etc

Swashbuckler

Personally I wouldn't have a log on here if a didn't want it.

In the last few weeks I've had a bunch of tips, advice etc and I've even taken most on board and at least tried them.

No great runner was made without listening to others. I very much welcome it.

RayCun

It depends. Usually when people say, "I'm brutally honest" or "I just tell it like it is" they mean they are rude ****ers
But as long as you don't feel the need for disclaimers like that, most people welcome advice

Annie get your Run

I doubt there's anyone here who wouldn't value constructive criticism, advice or a different perspective on their training etc. but, there's a way to do it and way not to I think. The delivery probably has more impact than the message itself.

Safiri

skyblue46 wrote: »

I think if someone asks for input then they should be prepared to accept whatever comes their way be that critical or supportive. I would anyway. I might not agree with the advice but I'd judge that on a case by case basis.

What would your basis be for judging the quality of advice?

Testosterscone wrote: »

If you post on a discussion forum in my opinion your content should be open to discussion why else post?

I agree and maybe this is something that gets lost on here by people who may not say something they see in another persons training and by the person recieving advice.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't have a log on here if a didn't want it.

In the last few weeks I've had a bunch of tips, advice etc and I've even taken most on board and at least tried them.

No great runner was made without listening to others. I very much welcome it.

No man is an Island, of that I'm sure!

RayCun wrote: »

It depends. Usually when people say, "I'm brutally honest" or "I just tell it like it is" they mean they are rude ****ers
But as long as you don't feel the need for disclaimers like that, most people welcome advice

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I doubt there's anyone here who wouldn't value constructive criticism, advice or a different perspective on their training etc. but, there's a way to do it and way not to I think. The delivery probably has more impact than the message itself.

Agree with these but wouldn't there be situations where tough love is called for? Often when people have deep seated beliefs, any sort of advice to the contrary is seen as abrasive and the person giving advice has to be willing to be hated to do the right thing?

RayCun

Tough love can work when it is coming from someone you know and respect. Coming from someone you don't know it is likely to make you defensive or annoyed, and will be ignored.

Annie get your Run

Safiri wrote: »

Agree with these but wouldn't there be situations where tough love is called for? Often when people have deep seated beliefs, any sort of advice to the contrary is seen as abrasive and the person giving advice has to be willing to be hated to do the right thing?

The right thing in who's opinion though? The person giving the advice is only offering their opinion. Even amongst the elites and their coaches opinions differ and vary. If you were to listen to every piece of advice offered here you'd end up running backwards too fast, too slow, to flat to hilly etc etc etc.

I think there is a place here for debate and discussion around training methods, plans, all the different ways to achieve something from those starting out to those very experienced runners here. I'm not so sure about giving *tough love*, doesn't that imply that you know best? Maybe you do but hey, I don't know you from adam .

Safiri

RayCun wrote: »

Tough love can work when it is coming from someone you know and respect. Coming from someone you don't know it is likely to make you defensive or annoyed, and will be ignored.

Yeah, that's true.

Annie get your Run wrote: »

The right thing in who's opinion though? The person giving the advice is only offering their opinion. Even amongst the elites and their coaches opinions differ and vary. If you were to listen to every piece of advice offered here you'd end up running backwards too fast, too slow, to flat to hilly etc etc etc.

I think there is a place here for debate and discussion around training methods, plans, all the different ways to achieve something from those starting out to those very experienced runners here. I'm not so sure about giving *tough love*, doesn't that imply that you know best? Maybe you do but hey, I don't know you from adam .

Good point. The know it all can be strong on both sides of the coin:D.

Swashbuckler

Annie get your Run wrote:

I think there is a place here for debate and discussion around training methods, plans, all the different ways to achieve something from those starting out to those very experienced runners here. I'm not so sure about giving *tough love*, doesn't that imply that you know best? Maybe you do but hey, I don't know you from adam .

Also add to the fact that one size doesn't fit all. I might be have a very strong aerobic base but lack speed and some other guy might be the complete opposite. Without that kind of background knowledge constructive criticism may not be so constructive.

skyblue46

Safiri wrote: »

What would your basis be for judging the quality of advice?

Perhaps I should have said that I might not agree the advice is best for me. That could be for any number of reasons and not a judgement of the advice and how suitable it might be for others.

Safiri

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Also add to the fact that one size doesn't fit all. I might be have a very strong aerobic base but lack speed and some other guy might be the complete opposite. Without that kind of background knowledge constructive criticism may not be so constructive.

Very true but this is somewhere where I think boards is on a different level to anything else. The amount of background training and information is huge, some people have 100's of pages on their training history just a click away from themselves and anyone else. I read back 100 pages of AMK's log last week for instance(I've too much time on my hands). That platform creates a huge oppurtunity for feedback in my opinion. It's more information on a persons training than 99% of coaches will ever see on one runner.

Swashbuckler

Safiri wrote:

Very true but this is somewhere where I think boards is on a different level to anything else. The amount of background training and information is huge, some people have 100's of pages on their training history just a click away from themselves and anyone else. I read back 100 pages of AMK's log last week for instance(I've too much time on my hands). That platform creates a huge oppurtunity for feedback in my opinion. It's more information on a persons training than 99% of coaches will ever see on one runner.

I guess I hadn't considered anyone would be that committed haha. Fair play. It is an interesting log in fairness. So yeah fair point

AuldManKing

Safiri wrote: »

Very true but this is somewhere where I think boards is on a different level to anything else. The amount of background training and information is huge, some people have 100's of pages on their training history just a click away from themselves and anyone else. I read back 100 pages of AMK's log last week for instance(I've too much time on my hands). That platform creates a huge oppurtunity for feedback in my opinion. It's more information on a persons training than 99% of coaches will ever see on one runner.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I guess I hadn't considered anyone would be that committed haha. Fair play. It is an interesting log in fairness. So yeah fair point

Interesting........Interesting......only Interesting!

I'd say Safiri was hooked - he seen motivation, determination and every other 'ation out there, I'd say he laughed, I say he cried and at the end of it all...........he started a log

AuldManKing

I'm all for feedback - thing is about boards, you dont really know the qualifications or such of some of the people giving it out. They could be talking rubbish, but sounding like they know what they are talking about. So one needs to be careful with it until they build a picture of the person giving the advice.

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote:

I'd say Safiri was hooked - he seen motivation, determination and every other 'ation out there,

Elevation

Safiri

AuldManKing wrote: »

Interesting........Interesting......only Interesting!

I'd say Safiri was hooked - he seen motivation, determination and every other 'ation out there, I'd say he laughed, I say he cried and at the end of it all...........he started a log

Self-deprecation

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'm all for feedback - thing is about boards, you dont really know the qualifications or such of some of the people giving it out. They could be talking rubbish, but sounding like they know what they are talking about. So one needs to be careful with it until they build a picture of the person giving the advice.

Good point. It's a funny one I think. Reading through the logs, some of the most interesting and constructive one's are from newer posters and among the advice given is also by newer posters and have the most general training chit chat. While I agree that there has to be some respect built for the advice to be heeded; Is it possible that there is sometimes too much respect shown on both sides at times to more established posters? That someone with "less" knowledge might not speak up even though their view may have more objective value etc?

Swashbuckler

Safiri wrote:

Is it possible that there is sometimes too much respect shown on both sides at times to more established posters? That someone with "less" knowledge might not speak up even though their view may have more objective value etc?

I can safely say I've probably half written and discarded 20 posts and decided to wait until someone more experienced commented first.

Testosterscone

Safiri wrote: »

Agree with these but wouldn't there be situations where tough love is called for? Often when people have deep seated beliefs, any sort of advice to the contrary is seen as abrasive and the person giving advice has to be willing to be hated to do the right thing?

Dogmatic views by either the person who gives the advice or person receiving aren't gonna be changed through perseverance. There have been many incidences of this that can be found throughout here (to this day there are groups here who won't listen to advice simply because it comes from a particular person and likewise people who automatically like posts because they are from or in criticism of particular poster ) life is too short to waste time with those who don't want to be helped.

Safiri wrote: »

]Is it possible that there is sometimes too much respect shown on both sides at times to more established posters? That someone with "less" knowledge might not speak up even though their view may have more objective value etc?

Completely. There is a part of the charter that says attack the post and not the poster. That works on many levels.

A poster shouldn't be respected (well on a human level yes but that's it) Respect the content regardless who it comes from. Critically looking at the advice and how it relates to the individual is what we need to be learning. Unfortunately this is a skill that is lacking a bit and one of the reasons why many follow generic plans as they are unsure of how to tweak them individually to suit there needs. Even advice given from respected people can change. Training concepts are fluid, its a balancing act between many different factors;

- Physiological
- Psychological
- Social
- Personal Experience

A good example I can think of is Tim Noakes, whose pioneering work in sports science and his book the Lore of Running (still recommend that as a Bible for those starting off on coaching path) was once someone I highly regarded for years till his more recent zealotry into the hydration and LCHF work.

Many comments I have made over the years while not being wrong at the time and info I would stand by would not be the same advice I give now, there is no magic formula or set plan, best coaches are willing to be open to change (when its not just for changes sake) and learn constantly. This is why no matter the level of experience contributions help everyone (even the people you feel might be more experienced)

I have learned alot from people I would consider poor coaches because they challenge me to evaluate my own views regularly.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I can safely say I've probably half written and discarded 20 posts and decided to wait until someone more experienced commented first.

Ironically this is sometimes the reason I avoid responding to some posts so that hopefully others weigh in an give there thoughts. I think there are probably a few other regular posters who do the same.

squinn2912

For me running is like trying to write an essay. You get lots of information from the most reliable sources you can and then you make up your own judgements and go with that.

In terms of how that advice is communicated to me personally I enjoy getting a clap on the back but it doesn't improve my performances the way a bit of grit does when someone cuts me down a bit.

I've learnt lots on here and have found contributors to be honest with little time for bs and very encouraging and supportive

Baby75

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I can safely say I've probably half written and discarded 20 posts and decided to wait until someone more experienced commented first.

I have done the same many times

Duanington

Baby75 wrote: »

I have done the same many times

Post it next time, I think everyone wins that way. When I have time, I often post stuff that I believe to be true and helpful, then someone may come along and gently point me back in the right direction ....then maybe someone else throws in their piece and a different angle is uncovered.

The conversation thread is priceless though for anyone who wants to invest the time in taking it onboard....every now and then a thread will evolve into something much bigger than originally intended. That only happens if people post though...and of course if everyone respects each post and point of view ( and if they don't, who cares...ignorant words on a screen don't mean a lot really


My answe to the original question? Most welcome, always

Swashbuckler

I get what you're saying D but sometimes it's easier said than done. Take the DCM grad thread for example. Often they look for advice. It can be daunting potentially giving them bad advice so sometimes I just err on the side of caution.

Murph_D

I certainly welcome any kind of comment or advice or criticism, although not much has been forthcoming over 5+ years of logging. A few of the people who did comment rarely post anymore, but I know them in real life and communicate by other means, mostly face to face, which is preferable.

Echo most of the above though - advice is especially welcome from people who have earned respect through a history of constructive contribution and proven results. The emphasis being on ‘earned’. But I think most people here are open to advice and comment from anywhere. However we all reserve the right to implement, modify, or ignore it!

Annie get your Run

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I get what you're saying D but sometimes it's easier said than done. Take the DCM grad thread for example. Often they look for advice. It can be daunting potentially giving them bad advice so sometimes I just err on the side of caution.

You can offer advice based on your own experience, what’s worked (or not) for you. Everyone is different and some things won’t work for some people but if you don’t offer the suggestion then they won’t see the variety of options that might be available. If you get something very wrong someone will come along and point it out. Happens to me regularly . It’s everyone’s ’ forum Swashbuckler !

That goes for baby too.

Swashbuckler

Annie get your Run wrote:

You can offer advice based on your own experience, what’s worked (or not) for you. Everyone is different and some things won’t work for some people but if you don’t offer the suggestion then they won’t see the variety of options that might be available. If you get something very wrong someone will come along and point it out. Happens to me regularly . It’s everyone’s ’ forum Swashbuckler !

I hear you. It's just not easy when a. You're a bit unsure of yourself and b. There are absolutely people more qualified to comment on here. But fair enough. I'll be more forthcoming with my shi*ty advice in future.

OOnegative

I as has been stated already welcome any input on my log, constructive or otherwise. Having been around this place a while you get to know people and who to listen to. I like others to have often gone to the bother of replying to posts but pull the plug in the last second in hope someone of more knowledge replies instead. If you ever need a “good luck” or “well done” though i’m your man!!!

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

If you ever need a “good luck†or “well done†though i’m your man!!!

He's not lying in fairness. Always the second to wish me luck.;)

Baby75

Duanington wrote: »

Post it next time, I think everyone wins that way. When I have time, I often post stuff that I believe to be true and helpful, then someone may come along and gently point me back in the right direction ....then maybe someone else throws in their piece and a different angle is uncovered.

The conversation thread is priceless though for anyone who wants to invest the time in taking it onboard....every now and then a thread will evolve into something much bigger than originally intended. That only happens if people post though...and of course if everyone respects each post and point of view ( and if they don't, who cares...ignorant words on a screen don't mean a lot really


My answe to the original question? Most welcome, always

I will do Thank you

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I get what you're saying D but sometimes it's easier said than done. Take the DCM grad thread for example. Often they look for advice. It can be daunting potentially giving them bad advice so sometimes I just err on the side of caution.

As the elder lemon grad I say keep posting, don't hold back. In all honesty there is rarely such a thing as bad advice. If it worked for you it could work for others. Your input on that thread really is appreciated. Personally I find so many posts and logs from so many people helpful. I relate to comments from new runners as I am one, from this years novices because I was one, from masters runners because I'm one, from shift workers as I do them too, from those who over analyse because I'm cursed that way and from over trainers as I suspect I may be one. :pac:

I tend to try to advise some of the newer runners and my advice comes from what I have benefited from receiving from AMK, Wubble, El C and T....in other words easy is very easy!! It may not suit everyone but I will still throw it out there.

RayCun

Sometimes it's good to give advice even when you're only a little more experienced than the people you are advising. I think the novices thread is a great example. Having a novice from one year advising the next year means they are closer to the experiences and abilities of the people on the thread, and can give advice that is relatable. And keep hammering the main points of training, because that's all they know means things don't get too complicated.

The more you know, the more you want to know someone's life history before making suggestions

squinn2912

Good point there. If it feels like someone is way far above your level it can be overwhelming taking advice from them.

Safiri

Murph_D wrote: »

Echo most of the above though - advice is especially welcome from people who have earned respect through a history of constructive contribution and proven results. The emphasis being on ‘earned’.

OOnegative wrote: »

I as has been stated already welcome any input on my log, constructive or otherwise. Having been around this place a while you get to know people and who to listen to.

But when you slip into this mindframe, don't you lose all objectivity which is the very thing that drives discussion? I think many people have being here for so long that they have forgotten what it is like to be a new poster. I have been in that position many a time(and although refreshing for me to not have my posts seen with as much authority), I can see the flipside of the content coming second to the reputation for new posters. Nic Bideau could start posting in the morning and gain no traction for instance. Just because a poster hasn't earned respect on boards doesn't mean they are not knowlegeable or don't have something to offer.

Training is not as simple as a select few know everything and everyone else knows nothing, no one knows everything and that means that others that may have less overall knowledge being more informed in certain areas and vice versa. Training is also contrasting and there's more than one way to skin a cat which is the beauty of it; contrasting opinions drive evolution.

I think often contrasting opinions are seen as confrontational and that one person is right and the other is wrong; that doesn't have to be the case and more often than not isn't. There can be a lot of good stuff in all differing opinions and not just a case of oh he/she said that so they are right and that's it one and done. I see it here very often and have been on both sides when someone questions someone elses approach and there's a reply back from the person's log. The reply often reaches boards post of the day level of likes no matter how relevant or thought out the questions were. Discussion doesn't have to be seen as confrontational and questioning others and yourself is the only way to learn more.

And of course, this is just another opinion but were some of the thoughts that triggered me to start this thread.

OOnegative

Safiri wrote: »

But when you slip into this mindframe, don't you lose all objectivity which is the very thing that drives discussion? I think many people have being here for so long that they have forgotten what it is like to be a new poster. I have been in that position many a time(and although refreshing for me to not have my posts seen with as much authority), I can see the flipside of the content coming second to the reputation for new posters. Nic Bideau could start posting in the morning and gain no traction for instance. Just because a poster hasn't earned respect on boards doesn't mean they are not knowlegeable or don't have something to offer.

Training is not as simple as a select few know everything and everyone else knows nothing, no one knows everything and that means that others that may have less overall knowledge being more informed in certain areas and vice versa. Training is also contrasting and there's more than one way to skin a cat which is the beauty of it; contrasting opinions drive evolution.

I think often contrasting opinions are seen as confrontational and that one person is right and the other is wrong; that doesn't have to be the case and more often than not isn't. There can be a lot of good stuff in all differing opinions and not just a case of oh he/she said that so they are right and that's it one and done. I see it here very often and have been on both sides when someone questions someone elses approach and there's a reply back from the person's log. The reply often reaches boards post of the day level of likes no matter how relevant or thought out the questions were. Discussion doesn't have to be seen as confrontational and questioning others and yourself is the only way to learn more.

And of course, this is just another opinion but were some of the thoughts that triggered me to start this thread.

Where did I state I would not listen or take advice on board from new posters? I merely stated that from being around here a while you can figure out who to listen to and who not to, some of the newer posters around here make a fantastic contribution to the forum and long may that continue.

Edit: And if I come across as cranky in that post it’s not meant in that vain.

squinn2912

There;s a balance but at the end of the day you need some form of tried and trusted. If I get advice from someone, try it out and it works for me well then I'll consider that person a good source. If the opposite is true then I'll be reluctant to follow. For advice to be useful (not good or bad) then usually it can't be too radically different from what I'd been thinking already - marginal improvements leading to bigger ones.
The type of advice that might work well is stuff that is realistic but not negative, informed and not arrogant and encouraging without being over-zealous. Often the best thing to do is what you were thinking all along yourself but it's crucial in my opinion to bounce ideas around and try things out.

Safiri

OOnegative wrote: »

Where did I state I would not listen or take advice on board from new posters? I merely stated that from being around here a while you can figure out who to listen to and who not to, some of the newer posters around here make a fantastic contribution to the forum and long may that continue.

Edit: And if I come across as cranky in that post it’s not meant in that vain.

I asked a question which was there for you to answer back. The rest is merely my thoughts and opinion.

AuldManKing

OOnegative wrote: »

If you ever need a “good luck” or “well done” though i’m your man!!!

RayCun

Most people have a mental model of what training should look like. Maybe not very detailed, but some idea of how things should fit together.

If you propose something that fits that model, or at least doesn't contradict it, there won't be any resistance. Doesn't mean people will do anything about it, but maybe. Your suggestion to AMK about including more hills, for example. He doesn't have to radically restructure his training to include it, or ditch his coach, and you provided an argument that made sense.

If your suggestion does involve making radical changes, then people will naturally want a good reason to make those changes. Can you explain your reasoning? Do you have a track record of good advice? Are people familiar with how you train? Can you point to where you learned it, and is that source trusted? Otherwise people will dismiss it as "some bloke on the internet", and why wouldn't they?

(If Nic Bideau started posting, he could provide good answers to those questions!)

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

(If Nic Bideau started posting, he could provide good answers to those questions!)

If Nic Bideau started posting here my first thought would be he's some troll pretending to be Nic Bideau

TFBubendorfer

A friend of mine posted a workout on facebook a couple of days ago. A really tough long run at quite some pace. Great workout. He's in great shape.

He got tons of "you're brilliant" comments. Of course he did.

My one thought is "you just messed up your upcoming marathon. You left your best performance behind in a training run".

Am I going to say it to him? Of course not. What's done is done and putting negative thoughts into his head shortly before a big race will do no good. But if he has a disappointing race and starts searching for reasons I'll tell him exactly where I think he went wrong. There is nothing to be gained in me putting my oar in un-asked for, though.

Swashbuckler

TFBubendorfer wrote:

Am I going to say it to him? Of course not. What's done is done and putting negative thoughts into his head shortly before a big race will do no good. But if he has a disappointing race and starts searching for reasons I'll tell him exactly where I think he went wrong. There is nothing to be gained in me putting my oar in un-asked for, though.

I second that. I've seen that a lot on Strava. Sometimes the back patting on really badly thought out training runs or even multiple races in one day is completely counter productive. In saying that I rarely provide the dissenting voice unless I'm asked directly.

Murph_D

Safiri wrote: »

But when you slip into this mindframe, don't you lose all objectivity which is the very thing that drives discussion? I think many people have being here for so long that they have forgotten what it is like to be a new poster. I have been in that position many a time(and although refreshing for me to not have my posts seen with as much authority), I can see the flipside of the content coming second to the reputation for new posters. Nic Bideau could start posting in the morning and gain no traction for instance. Just because a poster hasn't earned respect on boards doesn't mean they are not knowlegeable or don't have something to offer.

Training is not as simple as a select few know everything and everyone else knows nothing, no one knows everything and that means that others that may have less overall knowledge being more informed in certain areas and vice versa. Training is also contrasting and there's more than one way to skin a cat which is the beauty of it; contrasting opinions drive evolution.

I think often contrasting opinions are seen as confrontational and that one person is right and the other is wrong; that doesn't have to be the case and more often than not isn't. There can be a lot of good stuff in all differing opinions and not just a case of oh he/she said that so they are right and that's it one and done. I see it here very often and have been on both sides when someone questions someone elses approach and there's a reply back from the person's log. The reply often reaches boards post of the day level of likes no matter how relevant or thought out the questions were. Discussion doesn't have to be seen as confrontational and questioning others and yourself is the only way to learn more.

And of course, this is just another opinion but were some of the thoughts that triggered me to start this thread.

Posters who are not well known and give good advice in a constructive manner would soon be trusted and welcomed, I would have thought. There have been a few posters who seemed to be giving good advice but turned out to be bluffers. That's always a risk.

Can you give an example of the kind of 'confrontational and questioning' discussion that you are referring to above? I don't see it very often (although of course I don't read everyone's log).

Safiri

Murph_D wrote: »

Posters who are not well known and give good advice in a constructive manner would soon be trusted and welcomed, I would have thought. There have been a few posters who seemed to be giving good advice but turned out to be bluffers. That's always a risk.

Can you give an example of the kind of 'confrontational and questioning' discussion that you are referring to above? I don't see it very often (although of course I don't read everyone's log).

Good advice and bluffing don't coexist though, it's an either or situation I think. That's what I mean by looking at the content rather than the reputation; if you look at the advice and how it fits rather than the person posting it, it's more objective.

I'm not going to post specific examples of that happening because I don't think it is fair or just to pick people out on a public forum. I do think people can perceive questioning of an approach as confrontational though and why many won't speak up with thoughts as I myself have backed out of posting opinions at times for fear of it getting peoples backs up. It usually takes me a few goes at posting it before I ever do and often end up deleting post later when I have. I know many others do the same because I see it happening with posts getting edited and deleted too.

Murph_D

Safiri wrote: »

Good advice and bluffing don't coexist though, it's an either or situation I think. That's what I mean by looking at the content rather than the reputation; if you look at the advice and how it fits rather than the person posting it, it's more objective.

I'm not going to post specific examples of that happening because I don't think it is fair or just to pick people out on a public forum. I do think people can perceive questioning of an approach as confrontational though and why many won't speak up with thoughts as I myself have backed out of posting opinions at times for fear of it getting peoples backs up. It usually takes me a few goes at posting it before I ever do and often end up deleting post later when I have. I know many others do the same because I see it happening with posts getting edited and deleted too.

It can be bluffing if it’s objectively good advice but not offered from experience - I’ve seen one or two posters post ‘advice’ cut and pasted from a google search, for example.

If you question soneone’s approach and they are not open to it, good luck to them. Of course it happens here sometimes but I’d suggest it’s the exception rather than the rule.

joey1111

Murph_D wrote: »

It can be bluffing if it’s objectively good advice but not offered from experience - I’ve seen one or two posters post ‘advice’ cut and pasted from a google search, for example.

If you question soneone’s approach and they are not open to it, good luck to them. Of course it happens here sometimes but I’d suggest it’s the exception rather than the rule.

I don't get that, if someone gives you good advice and it works out well how can it matter what experience they have. They are intelligent people who sourced good information and offered it to you without you having to go looking.
Sounds like a good guy to me.

Bluffing to me is pretending to have ten years experience as a coach and offering good or bad advice to someone based on something you googled.

OOnegative

joey1111 wrote: »

I don't get that, if someone gives you good advice and it works out well how can it matter what experience they have. They are intelligent people who sourced good information and offered it to you without you having to go looking.
Sounds like a good guy to me.

Any of us can source good advice but have no clue what we’re talking about when it comes to that advice. Much rather take advice off someone who has sourced it and does know what there talking about.

joey1111

OOnegative wrote: »

Any of us can source good advice but have no clue what we’re talking about when it comes to that advice. Much rather take advice off someone who has sourced it and does know what there talking about.

And I totally agree with you about preferring advice from someone experienced but I think you're wrong that anyone can source good advice. You have to make an effort to source it and have the interest to do it. Theres plenty of armchair experts out there who may not have the physical experience but have a passion for whatever sport it is and are very informed about their topics.

I often notice you thanking information that is posted by some of the oldtimers here about subjects that they are not experts on experienced at but have read up about it or spoken to people about it.

Thats different though to bluffing which is what I was referring to when responding to the OP.

OOnegative

joey1111 wrote: »

I often notice you thanking information that is posted by some of the oldtimers here about subjects that they are not experts on experienced at but have read up about it or spoken to people about it.

Being an old timer myself I have come to trust a lot of what other oldtimers may post as I trust there opinions and advice. I can’t think of one piece of bad advice I have received off them either.

joey1111

OOnegative wrote: »

Being an old timer myself I have come to trust a lot of what other oldtimers may post as I trust there opinions and advice. I can’t think of one piece of bad advice I have received off them either.

well thats fine, thats your prerogative and I respect that OO.

OOnegative

joey1111 wrote: »

well thats fine, thats your prerogative and I respect that OO.

If you think i’m wrong i’m all ears, this is a discussion forum after all.