Electric Ireland Night Rate - worth it for EV?

Hi all,

I'm getting a Leaf in a month or so. Switched to Electric Ireland from SSEA recently to avail of their night rate. Will need new meter - which is free to install but costs to remove if you ever change your mind.

The night rate is cheaper than the normal tariff but the day rate is more expensive than normal. Bit torn on this. I work at home so use electricity in the office all day and just generally to light/power the house.

Wondering if the savings of cheaper car charging would be enough to compensate for the more expensive day rate. Anyone experience of working this out? Or opinions on costs in general?

Sabre Man

We're in the same situation. Working from home, 2 EVs, SSEA. Not having night rate gives us the flexibility to put on the washing machine/dishwasher and charge when it suits us.

I haven't done any calculations though.

punisher5112

It's well worth it.
Standing charge will be a little higher but to change meters there is no cost.

You will be able to time charging on car to only do so at night rate.

Thanks folks. It seemed like a no-brainer at first because I'd probably charge overnight anyway. But I hadn't realised the day rate would be higher.

Orebro

Is it possible to revert to a standard 24hr rate later on if you have had the night meter installed? Or do you need to have the night meter removed for this?

It seems you need different meters - a dual meter for the night rate or a single meter for 24-hour. It's free to have it installed but €195 to have to removed

Soarer

Isn't the day rate only higher by 2c or something? But the nightrate is significantly cheaper.

Yes, the night rate is about half the price:
Day unit rate €0.1833
Night unit rate €0.0906

Ordinarily, the 24-hour rate is €0.1786.

Pretty much the only thing we'd do at night is charge the car on timer.

The standing charge on the night rate is €197.61 compared to €151.40.

I suppose I need to know how much it costs to charge the car and how often I'd be doing that. I used this calculator from ESB to estimate the cost of running an electric car (they don't say anything about the rate so it's a rough estimate) and they reckon fuel costs of €3.17 if you drive 250km a week.

I've a feeling the benefit might be quite low so am still torn.

Dardania

This business about changing back to 24 hour metering incurring a cost, I think is spurious.
The meter they install has 3 readings, which are all correct -24 hour consumption, day consumption, night consumption. day consumption + night consumption = 24 hour consumption. SO they have the 24 hour consumption at all times.

My brother had a day/night meter fitted to his house. He changed electricity supplier, and they took the 24 hour reading as his starting point. no costs etc.

Orebro

Seems crazy to me that you'd need to pull out a night meter at a big cost and have a day one installed if you see decided to change plan after a year.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm getting a Leaf in a month or so. Switched to Electric Ireland from SSEA recently to avail of their night rate. Will need new meter - which is free to install but costs to remove if you ever change your mind.

The night rate is cheaper than the normal tariff but the day rate is more expensive than normal. Bit torn on this. I work at home so use electricity in the office all day and just generally to light/power the house.

Wondering if the savings of cheaper car charging would be enough to compensate for the more expensive day rate. Anyone experience of working this out? Or opinions on costs in general?

Its a no brainer if you have an EV. Unless you hardly use the car at all it will justify the switch to night rate on the car alone not to mind other background loads and other appliances that you could switch to night rate.

For me, day rate is 1c more but the night rate is half the price. The standing charge goes up by about €45, I think for the year.

So, lets say, you have a 24kWh Leaf and you use half its range everyday (~50km). Depending on how heavy your right foot is that will require about 10kWh's worth of electricity at your meter.

Using your figures from post 8 above..... that would cost €1.79 from a 24hr meter and €0.91 from a day/night meter so an 88c/day saving (€321/year). So, the €45 extra standing charge is more than paid for in the first 2 months. The extra 1c you pay on the day rate will also be well covered by the 88c you are saving every night on the car.

Then add in the fact you might be using more than 50% of the cars range so more savings.
Add in the background load that you will have at night anyway (broadband modems, fridge, TV on standby etc).
Add in the fact that you can then also push other appliances onto night rate (washer, dryer, dishwasher).... so even more savings here.

Practically everyone with an EV should have a night rate meter unless you have Solar PV and you charge the car with that or if you never charge the car at night (for some reason... maybe shift work or something).... I think it would be rare that someone would be better off with a 24hr meter when they have an EV.


FYI: Your day/night rate you've quoted are not the best btw. I pay 14.52/6.96 for day/night with Energia.

Thanks for all of that. Makes sense - hadn't really considered other night-time usage like TV/broadband. Wish I could program my (fairly old) washing machine and dryer to come on late. Could stick them on first thing in the morning though - night rate lasts until 8am in winter and 9am summer.

The only thing for me is that I don't drive to work so might do fewer miles than average. And because I work from home there are lights/computer on most of the day.

In the end, I don't think the benefit will be huge but maybe it's just about worth it given that they'll install for free.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The only thing for me is that I don't drive to work so might do fewer miles than average. And because I work from home there are lights/computer on most of the day.

How many km's do you do each day?
What about weekends, do you tend to travel further then?

Between 12k-15k a year, so maybe 1k a month, and therefore 250 a week. Maybe 100 of those on weekends

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Between 12k-15k a year, so maybe 1k a month, and therefore 250 a week. Maybe 100 of those on weekends

ok, so lets take the lower end of your figures... 12k km's. Lets assume you charge all of that at night time.

It will take about 2100kWh's to do that.

Using your SSE figures:
24hr meter = €375
Night rate = €190

€185 saving, subtract the extra €46 standing charge leaves you a saving of €139.

Assuming you use the national average of about 3500kWh's for the year the extra 1c for your day rate would cost you €35 extra.


So overall saving of €104/yr and thats just for the EV. Background loads and other appliances will increase the savings and obviously if you do more driving (maybe 15k, rather the 12k I've used here) you will have additional savings again.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Between 12k-15k a year, so maybe 1k a month, and therefore 250 a week. Maybe 100 of those on weekends

So I got electric car last year. I decided to go with night meter.

1 year on I have done just over 15k km. Using night rate that cost me the grand total of €197.

Since I installed the night meter I have moved everything to night rate, from a 80/20 day/night usage I am now on 50/50. So even thought I have an electric car my bills have not gone up.

My washing machine, dish washer etc are all set to go on at night. The immersion comes on at night and heats the tank etc etc

Now sometimes I will charge during the day, it costs circa double than night. Still only 2 euro.

Really if you are going to charge regularly during the day you should invest in PV

Sabre Man

KCross wrote: »

ok, so lets take the lower end of your figures... 12k km's. Lets assume you charge all of that at night time.

It will take about 2100kWh's to do that.

Using your SSE figures:
24hr meter = €375
Night rate = €190

€185 saving, subtract the extra €46 standing charge leaves you a saving of €139.

Assuming you use the national average of about 3500kWh's for the year the extra 1c for your day rate would cost you €35 extra.


So overall saving of €104/yr and thats just for the EV. Background loads and other appliances will increase the savings and obviously if you do more driving (maybe 15k, rather the 12k I've used here) you will have additional savings again.

Does this assume that all charging is done at home?

DrPhilG

Since moving to night rate and getting an EV I manage between 55-60% of my electricity usage at night.

Thanks a lot folks, especially for sharing numbers. My back-of-the-envelope was probably a bit modest and I haven't factored in other changes like running the dishwasher/dryer when I get up (but before the 'day' rate) etc.

Will make the switch. Really appreciate all the help.

viking

Deleted User wrote: »

Wish I could program my (fairly old) washing machine and dryer to come on late. Could stick them on first thing in the morning though - night rate lasts until 8am in winter and 9am summer.

Buy a couple of timer sockets and you should be able to control putting the machines on late at night instead of early morning. Just don't leave them on unattended, that's never a good idea.

We also have a few USB battery packs that charge at night meaning that phones and tablets can get charged during the day.

ted1

Soarer wrote: »

Isn't the day rate only higher by 2c or something? But the nightrate is significantly cheaper.

But the day rate is for 26 hours, night rate only for 8 hours

ted1

viking wrote: »

We also have a few USB battery packs that charge at night meaning that phones and tablets can get charged during the day.

That’s a bit OTT

Shefwedfan

viking wrote: »

Buy a couple of timer sockets and you should be able to control putting the machines on late at night instead of early morning. Just don't leave them on unattended, that's never a good idea.

We also have a few USB battery packs that charge at night meaning that phones and tablets can get charged during the day.

All my white good have delay buttons on them, I would expect the majority would have at this stage

KCross

Sabre Man wrote: »

Does this assume that all charging is done at home?

Yup, its in the first line of my post.

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

But the day rate is for 26 hours, night rate only for 8 hours

Day rate is for 15hrs
Night rate is 9hr. (currently 11pm-8am and moves an hour with the clocks to 12am-9am)

Still awaiting delivery of my Leaf but presume home charging is way more convenient.

Even if you stop at a service station to charge and have a coffee you've spent more than an overnight charge would cost.

Not a bad option if you get free fast-charge while running an errand in town or doing the shopping in Tesco etc.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks folks. It seemed like a no-brainer at first because I'd probably charge overnight anyway. But I hadn't realised the day rate would be higher.

It is a no brainer.

I'm similar to you, but have 2 EVs. Night rate usage is a good bit higher than our day rate without trying. Timers are set on cars, dishwasher, washing machine. Sometimes we use all the above in the day if need be.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a bad option if you get free fast-charge while running an errand in town or doing the shopping in Tesco etc.

The correct charger etiquette is to plan charging at home as much as possible and then use the public network as needed when you go beyond the range of your car. At the same time topping up free power is ok even if you're local but if somebody doing a long trip requires the charger the etiquette requires you to stop charging if you have enough juice to make it to the destination (=home charger most of the time). I personally wouldn't leave my car to a DC charger unattended for more than 10/15 minutes so that I can move on if somebody really needs the charger.

In the near future the public points will begin to charge for charging so it will be cheaper to charge at home anyway. This will ensure that there won't be a queue of 3 local cars charging when you pass by on the way to somewhere.

bp_me

Orebro wrote: »

Is it possible to revert to a standard 24hr rate later on if you have had the night meter installed? Or do you need to have the night meter removed for this?

The modern dual rate meter won't need to be removed if you want to revert to a single rate tariff. There's a button on it to press that show 1) total consumption 2) day consumption and 3) night consumption.

Are the modern meters still read by a human walking door to door?
Seems a bit 1980s in our WiFi era

bp_me

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the modern meters still read by a human walking door to door?
Seems a bit 1980s in our WiFi era

Yes. Perhaps I should have said 'modern'.

KCross

The smart meters are "on the way". Rollout to begin in 2019 and these will report back autonomously.

https://www.cru.ie/2017/07/28/post-2/

Was talking to other half about this night rate issue and she asked whether the electricity company would just 'know' when we used electricity and when we didn't. Apparently, they have no clue unless a man with a clip board goes down the side of the house! Bizarre.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

The smart meters are "on the way". Rollout to begin in 2019 and these will report back autonomously.

https://www.cru.ie/2017/07/28/post-2/

So I'll get a new dual meter next month...and then a smart one in a year or so. Unbelievable that they haven't cracked this long ago. It's like if Telecom Eireann were coming into your hall to check how many calls you'd made last month...

Dardania

It is gas’d how they will aren’t remote. The thinking probably goes: Would you like to pay more tax in order to fund the rollout, and redundancy payments for all the meter reading staff?

There may be an advantage to delaying the roll out a few years - demand side management might be more mature by then

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Was talking to other half about this night rate issue and she asked whether the electricity company would just 'know' when we used electricity and when we didn't. Apparently, they have no clue unless a man with a clip board goes down the side of the house! Bizarre.

You can manually submit meter readings to make your bi-monthly bills more accurate or else you can just accept the quarterly readings... which do require "a man with a clipboard"

Deleted User wrote: »

So I'll get a new dual meter next month...and then a smart one in a year or so. Unbelievable that they haven't cracked this long ago. It's like if Telecom Eireann were coming into your hall to check how many calls you'd made last month...

It will take them several years to roll them out to all customers and they are not starting until 2019 so it could potentially be 4 or 5 years before you get one.... but it will come.

zoom_cool

How about Just energy flat rate unlimited electricity?

NIMAN

If you use a tumble dryer a lot, try to set it to come on during the night rate too.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

Was talking to other half about this night rate issue and she asked whether the electricity company would just 'know' when we used electricity and when we didn't. Apparently, they have no clue unless a man with a clip board goes down the side of the house! Bizarre.

My meter is in the hallway, because it used to be the porch before we moved the front door forward and extended the hall. It's a bit annoying having to let him in to read the meter.

unkel

If you charge your EV just once a week at home, you will already save yourself money. It really is a no brainer.

I can't get over the EV drivers in this country not having a night meter. I'm blue in the face telling people to get one. What's wrong with you people, can you not use a basic spreadsheet or listen to the advice of people who can? :pac:

goz83

unkel wrote: »

If you charge your EV just once a week at home, you will already save yourself money. It really is a no brainer.

I can't get over the EV drivers in this country not having a night meter. I'm blue in the face telling people to get one. What's wrong with you people, can you not use a basic spreadsheet or listen to the advice of people who can? :pac:

The inlaws haven't gone for a night meter. They reckon they use lots of power during the day. Eventually the penny will drop.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

If you charge your EV just once a week at home, you will already save yourself money. It really is a no brainer.

I can't get over the EV drivers in this country not having a night meter. I'm blue in the face telling people to get one. What's wrong with you people, can you not use a basic spreadsheet or listen to the advice of people who can? :pac:

Alright, alright, I'll do, I'll do it

In fact, I ordered it yesterday and am waiting to hear back.

Then all I'll need is an EV.... (C'mon Nissan, make my April)

ted1

NIMAN wrote: »

If you use a tumble dryer a lot, try to set it to come on during the night rate too.

The fire service would advise you to not run it unattended especially if you are going to bed

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Alright, alright, I'll do, I'll do it

In fact, I ordered it yesterday and am waiting to hear back.

Then all I'll need is an EV.... (C'mon Nissan, make my April)

It might be worth starting a thread with your requirements to see what options are available. The Nissan Leaf is a great car but other options are out their......the nv200 7 seater can be an option as well....

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It might be worth starting a thread with your requirements to see what options are available. The Nissan Leaf is a great car but other options are out their......the nv200 7 seater can be an option as well....

I think he bought the new Leaf already, just waiting for it?!
So, too late for you to convert him to VW!

KCross

KCross wrote: »

I think he bought the new Leaf already, just waiting for it?!
So, too late for you to convert him to VW!

Correct!

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct!

Best of luck :P

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

I think he bought the new Leaf already, just waiting for it?!
So, too late for you to convert him to VW!

Dont have to convert :P sold out at the moment

You cant get a new eGolf unless you ordered last year:(

goz83

ted1 wrote: »

The fire service would advise you to not run it unattended especially if you are going to bed

Clear the fluff and sure it'll be grand