Ireland vs Wales 24th Feb 2:15

Deusexmachina

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Kearney very much looks a player finishing up alright but there's no change coming there until at least the summer I'd say, so probably worth setting expectations appropriately. The next in line were likely Zebo and Conway and both became unavailable for different reasons. I would love to see us try Carberry against Scotland but I also know that putting our apprentice 10 in from the start back there is probably not the answer. Larmour has a long way to go. Only option really is Conway and he hasn't been fit. Obvious answer would have been Zebo but there you go, c’est ça.

Why is this the accepted position. Is it becuase he missed a tacke on his debut? Why are we so inately conservative in this country?
He is playing great for Leinster. Whats the problem???

prawnsambo

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Why is this the accepted position. Is it becuase he missed a tacke on his debut? Why are we so inately conservative in this country?
He is playing great for Leinster. Whats the problem???

Ah, you can see it even when he plays for Leinster. He makes rookie mistakes, because he is a rookie. But he learns very fast and usually never makes the same mistake twice.

mickey1979

sydthebeat wrote: »

Kearney is currently our best available full back. People have been calling for his head for the last 4/5 years but still he's picked continuously.

England have brown, who's can go from man of the match to a poor outing yesterday. Halfpenny is nothing special in open play but is solid and dependable, especially from the tee. Each of these players, including Kearney, has been questioned about deserving their jerseys. Each time their respective coaches select them.
Every full back can't be hogg, and you ask any player would they prefer a player of the tournament award, or a winners medal and you know which they would pick.

Anyway, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and eventually Kearney will not be there and those detractors can rejoice, but till then.....

Not a fan of Kearney, but your point is well made.

Former Former

Leaving Kearney aside, Larmour isn't quite there yet but given that McFadden didn't set the world on fire yesterday, I wouldn't mind seeing Larmour at 23 against Scotland (assuming Conway is still out).

I'm not sure if Conway is really international starter material tbh.

Deusexmachina

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ah, you can see it even when he plays for Leinster. He makes rookie mistakes, because he is a rookie. But he learns very fast and usually never makes the same mistake twice.

But the argument made earlier was that Kearney makes mistakes because he's human etc?

irishbucsfan

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Why is this the accepted position. Is it becuase he missed a tacke on his debut? Why are we so inately conservative in this country?
He is playing great for Leinster. Whats the problem???

He's not playing great for Leinster. He has been below average on his last two appearances. I'm basing my opinion of him entirely on his performances for Leinster and not at all on the Italy game.

Came off the bench against the Kings and did very little, then completely overran one ball and ended up getting himself isolated and conceded a penalty. If he's doing that stuff against the Kings then he's got some way to go before we trust him to start against Scotland or England.

Deusexmachina

sydthebeat wrote: »

Kearney is currently our best available full back. People have been calling for his head for the last 4/5 years but still he's picked continuously.

England have brown, who's can go from man of the match to a poor outing yesterday. Halfpenny is nothing special in open play but is solid and dependable, especially from the tee. Each of these players, including Kearney, has been questioned about deserving their jerseys. Each time their respective coaches select them.
Every full back can't be hogg, and you ask any player would they prefer a player of the tournament award, or a winners medal and you know which they would pick.

Anyway, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and eventually Kearney will not be there and those detractors can rejoice, but till then.....

Kearney, Hogg, Brown, Spedding, Halfpenny - I reckon Kearney is 4th best on that list

Buer

McFadden was very poor for the last Welsh try (along with Conan). He's an experienced player and I would endorse him being at 23 as someone who can come on and not make poor mistakes like that.

If he's making those errors, he's not worth a jersey for me when others can offer more in attack. Conway was the obvious choice for the spot before the tournament but being injured and then missing out this weekend for Munster is a problem given he hasn't played in over a month now.

Ringrose might well be an option for the 23 jersey if Carbery can cover 15.

Deusexmachina

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's not playing great for Leinster. He has been below average on his last two appearances. I'm basing my opinion of him entirely on his performances for Leinster and not at all on the Italy game.

Came off the bench against the Kings and did very little, then completely overran one ball and ended up getting himself isolated and conceded a penalty. If he's doing that stuff against the Kings then he's got some way to go before we trust him to start against Scotland or England.

His confidence has taken a knock for sure after the Italy game. Joe should have stuck with him on the bench rather than dropping him

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Leaving Kearney aside, Larmour isn't quite there yet but given that McFadden didn't set the world on fire yesterday, I wouldn't mind seeing Larmour at 23 against Scotland (assuming Conway is still out).

I'm not sure if Conway is really international starter material tbh.

I'd have Conway in the 23 jersey. If he hadn't gotten himself injured I don't think it'd even be a debate tbh

Biggest issue I have with him is his discipline at times, but in general I think he's the best other option available to us.

irishbucsfan

Deusexmachina wrote: »

His confidence has taken a knock for sure after the Italy game. Joe should have stuck with him on the bench rather than dropping him

Don't think it's remotely anything to do with low confidence, at all.

He's trying to make something happen every time he has the ball when its definitely not on and the team suffers for it.

Deusexmachina

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't think it's remotely anything to do with low confidence, at all.

He's trying to make something happen every time he has the ball when its definitely not on and the team suffers for it.

Jaysus, he's getting worse by the post...

Buer

Deusexmachina wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's not playing great for Leinster. He has been below average on his last two appearances. I'm basing my opinion of him entirely on his performances for Leinster and not at all on the Italy game.

Came off the bench against the Kings and did very little, then completely overran one ball and ended up getting himself isolated and conceded a penalty. If he's doing that stuff against the Kings then he's got some way to go before we trust him to start against Scotland or England.

His confidence has taken a knock for sure after the Italy game. Joe should have stuck with him on the bench rather than dropping him

His confidence took a knock from being backed to make his 6N debut? He was also on cover duty for Ireland despite being with Leinster the night before.

His performance against the Kings was one of a guy who was over confident if anything. He was trying to carve them open when he had support. His finish for his try was sharp and good reading, definitely not like a guy short on confidence.

Deusexmachina

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't think it's remotely anything to do with low confidence, at all.

He's trying to make something happen every time he has the ball when its definitely not on and the team suffers for it.

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

irishbucsfan

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

There's not a professional rugby player in the world who actually does that

Deusexmachina

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's not a professional rugby player in the world who actually does that

Ah, would you stop

prawnsambo

Deusexmachina wrote: »

But the argument made earlier was that Kearney makes mistakes because he's human etc?

There's a difference between making a mistake and haviing no ceiling on the mistakes you can make. Larmour is still learning, so every game will present new experiences and challenges and new mistakes to learn from.

prawnsambo

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

This is so reductive. A full back has two choices when they get the ball kicked deep to them (and there's a reason those kicks are made). They can kick it back and start kick tennis or have to run the entire team up and down the pitch getting them on side or they can run it back. The main reason why running back as fast as possible is the preferred option is to not knacker your team mates in an on side/off side kickathon and to get the ball as close as possible to the gain line so that there is no territory lost and possession can be maintained. They're not running back to break the line, although that's sometimes possible.

Interested Observer

prawnsambo wrote: »

This is so reductive. A full back has two choices when they get the ball kicked deep to them (and there's a reason those kicks are made). They can kick it back and start kick tennis or have to run the entire team up and down the pitch getting them on side or they can run it back. The main reason why running back as fast as possible is the preferred option is to not knacker your team mates in an on side/off side kickathon and to get the ball as close as possible to the gain line so that there is no territory lost and possession can be maintained. They're not running back to break the line, although that's sometimes possible.

Or they can pass the ball.

Former Former

Watching the highlights on TV3, Leavy's try really should have been disallowed for Best's interference.

The Rape of Lucretia

Larmour may well make quick progress. But truly on his play as of today, there is no way he should be in a 23 for a serious Ireland game. He is not playing well. He is playing so so, but showing loads of potential rather than actual high performance. Even benching him for Scotland or England would be a terrible mistake. Joe wont make it.
That isnt to say that he mightnt be a starter 12 months from now. His time will come. But it is not today. Exciting and all as he is, he needs to adapt to the reality that despite the rise in pitch in the crowd cheer, it isnt necessarily the best choice to try and score a wonder try every time you get your hands on the ball.

prawnsambo

Interested Observer wrote: »

Or they can pass the ball.

Deep. For them to pass, other players have to retreat as they come forward. Enough have to retreat for there to be options that question the defence. New Zealand now have multiple runners going back to give those options, but we're not quite at those levels yet. I'd like to see our forwards pass the ball a bit more first.

georgewickstaff

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

Jack Kanoff

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

Proper rugby forum? Do please tell us which one.

MJohnston

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Hands up here who has played international rugby? None of you ****wits who won't even post on a proper Rugby forum anyway I'd wager!

"proper rugby forum" - lad, I doubt there's a single international rugby player on any forum, let alone one that describes itself as "proper".

flutered

a lot has been written about ireland shipping tries, should not the defense coaches be shouldering some/most of the blame, not the players, this has been a problem sinse the autumn internationals

prawnsambo

MJohnston

flutered wrote: »

a lot has been written about ireland shipping tries, should not the defense coaches be shouldering some/most of the blame, not the players, this has been a problem sinse the autumn internationals

We're frustratingly inconsistent in our defence, I honestly don't know that we've improved much since 2015.

prawnsambo

MJohnston wrote: »

We're frustratingly inconsistent in our defence, I honestly don't know that we've improved much since 2015.

They pretty much always come down to individual errors though. Which can often happen with personnel changes. Or just brainfarts. If someone makes a mistake, it usually takes an exceptional effort from someone else to rescue the situation. Often though, it just puts more pressure on the team and then there's a bad decision and a score is conceded.

.ak

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Instead of running into the first opponent he sees?

Well if you go backwards and your team have to run behind you what's the point?

I love Larmour's footwork, but sometimes I wish he would just go into contact at pace because teams are sussing him out.