Cargo bike as a way of commuting with my kids.

mohm.kamal

Hello

I'm not sure if this question belongs here or somewhere else, so pardon me if it isn't.

I'm living in Dublin 18 and my 4-year daughter will be attending a school which is 2km from home. There is no direct transportation except one bus which comes every 50mins. I also don't drive, so getting a car is not an option, at least for the coming year.

So I thought about buying a bike with a backseat or a cargo bike, so what do you think of this option? is this feasible? does it cost much? and what else can work out as an option?

Thanks a lot for your help

Woden

My brother in law went for the cargo bike option as he has two kids. 4 and 2. Pricey if I recall.

He went for something like this - https://www.bakfiets.nl/modellen/cargobike-lang/cargobike-classic-long

Back seat substantially cheaper - https://www.thule.com/en-gb/gb/child-bike-seats/rear-mounted-child-bike-seats/thule-yepp-maxi-_-12020215

seamus

I see a lot of people doing this. Very, very feasible. Even at a gentle pace, a 2km trip on the bike will take just 8 minutes. Even if you could convince your 4 year old to jump in a buggy, it's probably still a 25-35 minute walk.

Bikes with backseats always give me the heebies. I don't know why, something about how injured the child could get if you dropped the bike. My fear is probably unfounded.

Likewise, trailers worry me too. You can't see the kids and someone could easily not notice that you have them.

So if I was to carry kids, I would go for a cargo bike. Something with comfortable seats for the kids in front and a rain cover, and you have a year-round commuting machine.

They can be expensive, brand new they'll cost you as much as an old second-hand car. But without any of the ongoing costs; no tax, no insurance, no fuel, and minimal maintenance.

Cargo bikes can be heavy - if it's quite hilly in your part of D18, the extra €500 or so it'll cost to get an electric version might be worth the money.

The bonus of the cargo bike, unlike a back seat, is that you can use it to carry actual cargo too if the need arises. So pop into the supermarket after dropping the child to school and get your weekly shopping.

schemingbohemia

If your employer will facilitate the bike to work scheme you could buy your cargo bike through that - could save a good bit depending on your tax rate.

tomasrojo

I bring my two kids, nearly eight and nearly six, about by cargo bike (long bakfiets). I have giant legs now.

I have a 40-minute uphill journey in the afternoons that is slightly wearing and tedious. Other than that, brilliant.

There are some things you have to get used to, such as doing three-point turns with a bike and constantly looking for dropped kerbs.

Does your route have slip lanes and roundabouts? These are tricky on a normal bike, and more so on a long, heavy, less manoeuvrable bike.

mohm.kamal

seamus wrote: »

Bikes with backseats always give me the heebies. I don't know why, something about how injured the child could get if you dropped the bike. My fear is probably unfounded.

Likewise, trailers worry me too. You can't see the kids and someone could easily not notice that you have them.

Yeah, I agree, me too!

seamus wrote: »

Cargo bikes can be heavy - if it's quite hilly in your part of D18, the extra €500 or so it'll cost to get an electric version might be worth the money.

The bonus of the cargo bike, unlike a back seat, is that you can use it to carry actual cargo too if the need arises. So pop into the supermarket after dropping the child to school and get your weekly shopping.

Thanks alot for this tip, never considered it!

mohm.kamal

schemingbohemia wrote: »

If your employer will facilitate the bike to work scheme you could buy your cargo bike through that - could save a good bit depending on your tax rate.

Thank you a lot, Do you know a specific seller or place which have affordable cargo bikes in Dublin?

py

Have been using a child seat mounted on the seat tube of my commuter for the past 2 months. Child loves it. The seat is very sturdy. Went for the Hamax Carass. Would love to get a cargo bike but it would take up too much space for us. I can easily mount the commuter bike on my wall so it's not taking up floor space.

ED E

The dog can come too.

Mr. Grieves

Cargo bikes are expensive and need a lot of space to store.

For only a 2km journey with one child, a regular bike with a rear seat may be all you need. If you choose a more practical hybrid or Dutch-style bike it will be stable and easy to cycle (avoid road bikes).

The Dutch bike shop (https://dutchbikeshop.ie) in Goatstown would be where I'd go for advice, although you could definitely save money by buying the bike second-hand if you wished.

sbs2010

Seat on the crossbar worked great for me up to age 6 or so.

Seat had a seat belt and footrest.

The best thing is the child can see what's going on, you can chat and your arms and body give them protection.

tomasrojo

Dutch Bike Shop are a nice bunch, I think. I buy stuff there a bit. I got mine at Greenaer near TCD though, because they stock the Bakfiets, and I particularly wanted that make.

tomasrojo

Greenaer once had an old display/try-it-out bakfiets for sale. Discounted pretty heavily, though for us the bike-to-work scheme meant it was nearly as cheap to get a new one.

ted1

I’d nearly suggest a scooter for them and maybe bect September get them cycling ( providing the route is safe )

My 4 y/o rides 2km to pre-school most days I'll walk with her on the bike ahead (on footpath), have a seat on the work horse bike when needs arise. School route is flat but I tell ya on my bike and with her on the back I feel the hills

Have her trained to move away from parked cars !!!!!! She had her own near miss with a door some months back.

kenmc

I've a bullit, have my 5.5 & 3 yo in it for school/creche run. It's pricey but excellent. I chose it over the bakfiets due to
-disc brakes
-the child canopy is awesome, steel rollcage
-27 gears, so fast for flats, easy for hills
- standard mtb gearing so easy part availability

They're weird as fcuk to cycle for about the first 10 mins, then you don't even notice the difference over a normal bike.

Thinkbike in rathmines stock them

Only thing now is, do I put the winter tyres on on Sunday, or wait until Monday

tomasrojo

The roll cage sounds like a very valuable addition. The Cabrio rain hood is very good on the bakfiets, but it's only a weather-proof feature, not a safety feature.

The bakfiets was the cheapest one with a good reputation that I could see. Only seven gears (though you can get more if you pay more), but the range is wide and the low one is very low, and to me that's the important one! In practice, I rather like roller brakes. The stopping time is the same whether it rains or not (like disc brakes, albeit longer stopping time), and I don't go faster than brisk, so they're good, and low-maintenance too: just a squirt of temperature-resistant grease in a port twice a year or so.

In fact, the bakfiets is the easiest to maintain bike I've ever had. The first chain lasted about 8,000km, IIRC, and I could have left it on a bit longer. Rainy weather just makes the bike look a bit dirty: all the vulnerable parts are enclosed. So far, two punctures over about 13,000km, and patching the tube in situ was ok both times.

I guess getting your kid to scoot is WAY cheaper. I walked about 5km to school with my kids for the first year, using a Chariot Cougar as a stroller and a kiddie board on the back. If I'd had the dough for a bakfiets back then I'd have done it that way though. It seems to be by far the quickest way of getting kids and stuff around Dublin at peak times. I bring the scooters with the kids now, so they can get and out and get themselves home when they fell like it.

Harrybelafonte

Have had Bullitt for about 8 years now. I wouldn't recommend it for a basic 2km journey. If you were to start using it for shopping, etc., it might make sense, but a cheaper short-term option like trailer or seat may make more sense.

I got the Bullitt before they had all the options for carrying kids (basically I had a wooden box with a seatbelt) and used it to bring child to school from maybe 6 years old. It was 2km too, but I continued on to work (another 10km), then back from work where I'd collect him from childcare, also maybe 2k away. I also did shopping with it and used it as a general commuter. However, I had a garage which made life a lot easier. I now keep a car in the garage and storing the Bullitt is a bit of a pain. I keep it in the dining room, but my partner is hinting strongly that I get it out of there and I'm not sure where to put it.

Money may not be an issue, but it's a pretty expensive option really, especially as guys here are recommending an electric motor. There's a presumption regarding your cycling ability there, but it may make sense. I have the Alfine 8 speed version and managed to get the two of us up Howth Hill, but I wouldn't fancy doing it every day.

If you wanted to try the Bullitt out, feel free to message me, but others here may have a more modern version that would be better tested

mohm.kamal

Thank you all for your comprehensive replies! I have decided to go with a normal bike and a backseat, I know it's not the best option, but it's the affordable one.

Also, since I might take it to work, I wouldn't be able to have the cargo bike tied anywhere, so it's also a drawback for me.

I will check for the cycle-to-work scheme and start from there.

Thanks again for you all

Carawaystick

I have had back seats, but for smaller children. If I could have I'd have gone for the crossbar type, or the Dutch seat that fits on your steerting tube, to have your child in front. It's way more sociable and fun for your child to see where they're going, as I found out from the few times I gave them crossbars.

tomasrojo

mohm.kamal wrote: »

Thank you all for your comprehensive replies! I have decided to go with a normal bike and a backseat, I know it's not the best option, but it's the affordable one.

Also, since I might take it to work, I wouldn't be able to have the cargo bike tied anywhere, so it's also a drawback for me.

I will check for the cycle-to-work scheme and start from there.

Thanks again for you all

That option is definitely much cheaper, and plenty of people do it that way.

(You can probably lock a cargo bike to itself outside your work, provided you use good locks. It can't be carried off, unless the thieves have a van, and there's two or more of them. A good long chain lock allows you to lock it to a lamp post or standard bike rack too. It still remains expensive though. We got a loan from the credit union.)

Type 17

Suggestion/Tip for rear child seat: Get a bike with a step-through frame (ladies model) - If you have a bike with a top-tube, it can be hard to get onto it, as you can't swing your leg over the rear of the bike without kicking the child seat/your daughter.
When you have a step-through frame, you can step over it backwards, so you're facing the rear, and then you can hold the frame between your knees while you lift your daughter into the seat, and secure her belts. Then you can swivel yourself around a bit, grab the handlebars, and hold the bike steady while you step out of the frame and then back in again, so you're facing forward, ready to ride off.

checky88

Seen this on kickstarter a while back https://argobikes.com/ could be an option

CramCycle

mohm.kamal wrote: »

Thank you all for your comprehensive replies! I have decided to go with a normal bike and a backseat, I know it's not the best option, but it's the affordable one.

I have used one for three years, he is nearly at the weight limit recommendation at the age of 4. He is big for his age, so must kids would probably be OK until 5 or 6.

Just get one with the sides up, not an open one. He has rocked side to side for fun, you feel it but it is easily handled. Now he indicates for me, calls out cars and loves it. Trailers are also a great option and far safer than you would think, worth researching as intuition can be misleading, I know NamelessPhil used one for years.

mohm.kamal

Very interesting note! I never thought about it. Thanks a lot!!

mohm.kamal

Frankly speaking, I'm not feeling safe with the trailer option, I might need to try it out first before I go for it. The other drawback for the trailer is that I will have to unleash the trailer before I can continue my way to work.

I live in Dublin 18 and my work in Dublin 2, so it would be hard to cycle this long distance with a trailer.

CramCycle

mohm.kamal wrote: »

Frankly speaking, I'm not feeling safe with the trailer option, I might need to try it out first before I go for it. The other drawback for the trailer is that I will have to unleash the trailer before I can continue my way to work.

I live in Dublin 18 and my work in Dublin 2, so it would be hard to cycle this long distance with a trailer.

In this case the bike seat is going to be the most convenient. I take mine off and leave it in the creche but have often left it on as well. You could leave the trailer there and U lock it to something but I sense from your posts that it is not goign to be your cuppa tea, which is fine, never be pushed into something that you don't feel comfy with, particularly with your kids. I think they are safer than other options but that is me.

kenmc

Myconcern with a trailer is that they're unbraked -if you hit the brakes hard they can jackknife on you I think.

Also the asymmetrical loading of stress on the rear triangle, usually concentrated on the left, is something I'm not terribly keen on either

tomasrojo

I have to say that I've never had a trailer jack knife, and I've put bigger loads than small children in it.




Fair point on the second item: I do wonder whether years of using a low-mounted trailer with asymmetrical strain would damage the bike frame alright. But my (steel) frame seems ok after about eight years of carrying goods in a low-hitched trailer.

Dades

If it's not too late, +1 for the crossbar saddle style.

I bring my 4 yr old to Montessori every morning on one. In my mind both the safest (your arms are around the child), most sociable form of child transport.

I use this one I got from Amazon.

CramCycle

Dades wrote: »

If it's not too late, +1 for the crossbar saddle style.

I bring my 4 yr old to Montessori every morning on one. In my mind both the safest (your arms are around the child), most sociable form of child transport.

I use this one I got from Amazon.

It is funny how opinions differ, a few friends said the same to me, whereas all I can see is that the rear mounted seat has a mould up around the edges, whereas this has a small child planted in between the two things that are meant to keep the bike steady, and you are impulsively going to wrap around the child in even a minor incident rather than trying to control it.

The key thing is, nearly all of these differing modes are safer than most of us think, and I imagine, considering we don't seem to hear about it on the news, far safer than many are willing to accept.

Crossbar seat
Positive: you can cocoon your child in most scenarios
Negative: You cocoon your child and lose control

Rear seat:
Positive: Doesn't inhibit your movement, newer ones have give in the struts to prevent shocks hurting the child as much, many have moulds going up around the edges
Negative: You can't see your child as easily, they can make you slightly unstable if they swing around the place, if you fall and they have there hands outside the mould, it might cut them off (unlikely)

Cargo Bike:
Positive: your child is cocooned by a solid cage, you can see them all the time, they are not inhibited, you are not inhibited, can be used of other purposes, if is large and visible but still able to move around in towns.
Negative: Heavy, expensive,

Trailer
Positive: your child is cocooned by a solid cage, they are not inhibited, you are not inhibited, can be used of other purposes, if is large and visible but still able to move around in towns. Google collision tests to see how they react in a crash and you will be shocked how sturdy and well designed the better ones are. not as large an investment as a cargo bike.
Negative: A drag, you can't see them all the time, maybe harder to hear?!?
Other people think you are wreckless with your kids

Tigerandahalf

One of the more important things is not the type of transport you use but the route you travel on.

You can't beat designated bike paths segregated from road traffic.

Granted this isn't possible for everyone commuting.

Trailers are handy as you can use them for leisure at the weekend. Kids are protected from the cold and showers of rain and if they are tired they can fall asleep and have a nap.

'68 Fastback

Hiya, just throwing my hat in!

I use a Yepp Maxi on a rear carrier and a Hamax rain poncho for when it gets wet out there. I live in Inchicore and do the creche run into Harcourt St. My daughter is 3 and a half and loves being on the bike. We have two in the creche at the moment so I haven't been doing the run recently but all through last winter there wasn't one complaint. I carried a little hot water bottle for the really cold days!

I have no experience of any other type of seat but have had no problems with the Yepp. The Hamax cover fits it really well.

If you think that a rear seat is an option I would recommend a double kick stand. It made my life alot easier.

Tigerandahalf

'68 Fastback wrote: »

Hiya, just throwing my hat in!

I use a Yepp Maxi on a rear carrier and a Hamax rain poncho for when it gets wet out there. I live in Inchicore and do the creche run into Harcourt St. My daughter is 3 and a half and loves being on the bike. We have two in the creche at the moment so I haven't been doing the run recently but all through last winter there wasn't one complaint. I carried a little hot water bottle for the really cold days!

I have no experience of any other type of seat but have had no problems with the Yepp. The Hamax cover fits it really well.

If you think that a rear seat is an option I would recommend a double kick stand. It made my life alot easier.

The rain is always a problem no matter what you use. I don't think any bike trailers are fully waterproof so if the trailer gets very wet you have the problem of drying it out afterwards.

The bike seat with the poncho is probably a good way to keep them dry without having to dry out lots of stuff afterwards. The kid may get very warm in it though especially in summer showers.

If getting a trailer make sure you get a full mudguard over the whole back wheel otherwise the trailer will get destroyed. One of the problems is that very few mountain/hybrid bikes come with a full mudguard.

The kickstand is definitely needed.

El Vino

I had a similar distance with my kids, the girl scooted and the boy used a balance bike on the footpath, no one ever objected.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

Trailer
[...]
Other people think you are wreckless with your kids

That was the biggest negative for me in the early days. I came under huge pressure not to use it to transport the first-born.

One positive was that the Chariot Cougar I got makes a really great stroller too (except can't bring it on busy buses, because it doesn't fold down small, or fast).

(The Chariot Cougar pretty much was fully waterproof once you buy the extra rain hood for it. The kids never got wet, and they were transported through the rain so many times -- mostly in it as a stroller. They both squeezed in when it started to rain.)

tomasrojo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The rain is always a problem no matter what you use. I don't think any bike trailers are fully waterproof so if the trailer gets very wet you have the problem of drying it out afterwards.

As I said, the Chariot Cougar was as close as bedamned, once you got the extra rain skin for it.

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If getting a trailer make sure you get a full mudguard over the whole back wheel otherwise the trailer will get destroyed. One of the problems is that very few mountain/hybrid bikes come with a full mudguard.

The kickstand is definitely needed.

Yeah, good point. I extended the rear mudguard with homemade mudflaps, and I added a kickstand.

Tigerandahalf

Just to add, I also got a bike mirror that fits into the side of the handlebar. It is really useful no matter what you use, even if just cycling by yourself.

I have a rear bike seat too and until I got the mirror I was straining my back having to peak over my shoulder to see if the kid was ok.

I got the mirror on Amazon and it is adjustable.
It is called Mirrycle.

I use the trailer mostly now and the mirror is really handy for giving a quick look back. Very handy for seeing other cyclists or traffic coming up behind.

Mr. Grieves

A double kickstand is extremely useful. I also find the Hamax rain poncho excellent, it covers feet and hands and the hood fits over a helmet...at least for a smaller child.

CramCycle

I have a hamax poncho lying around if anyone wants it. young lad never took to it and prefers just full waterproofs.