How to improve 5k times

Graham1882

Hi folks,

Looking for a bit of advice please. My background is male mid 30's, weigh currently around 18 stone down from 20 stone in November and 6 foot 4 inches tall. Played football/ rugby and GAA up to my early 20's and just weight lifting since no or little cardio.

I have been running consistently since November and have reduced my 5k PB down from 37.xx mins to 27.57 mins. I want to reduce this further, if I'm honest I have set a goal to have it under 22 mins before the end of the year (realistic or not).

I run 3/4 times a week, 3 times midweek on my lunch break max distance is 3.15 just with the allowable time on my break. I run 2 at full and 1 at my lsr pace.

At the weekend I do one long run current longest run is 5.71 miles having built it from 3.5 miles over the last few months. I run this at 10.17 pace which felt comfortable. This is and will be for the foreseeable future done pushing a pram. If I'm honest I wouldn't do it without my little training partner, we both get a kick out of it and look forward to it.

My question is do I keep doing what I'm doing to improve the 5k time or have people any suggestions? Unfortunately with family and work life a running club is not an option.

Apologies for the lengthy post and any and all advice gratefully taken.

Itziger

Graham1882 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Looking for a bit of advice please. My background is male mid 30's, weigh currently around 18 stone down from 20 stone in November and 6 foot 4 inches tall. Played football/ rugby and GAA up to my early 20's and just weight lifting since no or little cardio.

I have been running consistently since November and have reduced my 5k PB down from 37.xx mins to 27.57 mins. I want to reduce this further, if I'm honest I have set a goal to have it under 22 mins before the end of the year (realistic or not).

I run 3/4 times a week, 3 times midweek on my lunch break max distance is 3.15 just with the allowable time on my break. I run 2 at full and 1 at my lsr pace.

At the weekend I do one long run current longest run is 5.71 miles having built it from 3.5 miles over the last few months. I run this at 10.17 pace which felt comfortable. This is and will be for the foreseeable future done pushing a pram. If I'm honest I wouldn't do it without my little training partner, we both get a kick out of it and look forward to it.

My question is do I keep doing what I'm doing to improve the 5k time or have people any suggestions? Unfortunately with family and work life a running club is not an option.

Apologies for the lengthy post and any and all advice gratefully taken.

1 word: consistency.

Keep running. Keep getting out as you are. Don't try to race the training or set 'pbs' in training runs. As well as everything else, they don't count!!

Do try to get in a bit of speed work. Mix it up. Try a few 400 metre reps, a few 200's. Then one day on a longer run, try to push the pace in the second half. I'd say stick to one speed session a week. You'll learn what works for you as time goes on, but it does take time. Stick at it and the time will come down (almost of its own accord)

Graham1882

Itziger wrote:

Do try to get in a bit of speed work. Mix it up. Try a few 400 metre reps, a few 200's. Then one day on a longer run, try to push the pace in the second half. I'd say stick to one speed session a week. You'll learn what works for you as time goes on, but it does take time. Stick at it and the time will come down (almost of its own accord)

Itziger wrote:

Keep running. Keep getting out as you are. Don't try to race the training or set 'pbs' in training runs. As well as everything else, they don't count!!

Itziger wrote:

1 word: consistency.

Thanks Itziger apologies if this is a silly question but the 400/200 reps do you dothese during your run and then return to normal pace and repeat? Or is it a case of sprint and take a min break?

TheBigGreen

Join a club if you can.

I joined a club at the start of the year and every Wednesday we are either running 200s, 400s or 800s.

Looking forward to testing out the training in a race soon.

Graham1882

TheBigGreen wrote:

Join a club if you can.

TheBigGreen wrote:

I joined a club at the start of the year and every Wednesday we are either running 200s, 400s or 800s.

Thanks Big Green unfortunately due to family and work it's not an option at the moment. In your sprints are you jogging and then increase the speed for 200 and then returning to a jogging pace?

What race are you aiming for? I can't even do parkrun at the minute, as it's the same time as the little ones swimming haha.

jameshayes

Graham1882 wrote: »

Thanks Itziger apologies if this is a silly question but the 400/200 reps do you dothese during your run and then return to normal pace and repeat? Or is it a case of sprint and take a min break?

A speed session would normally look like 10 min warm up, x amount of reps then a 10 min cool down. https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ has a calculator for telling you which training paces to follow. Based on a 28min 5k you should be running 200's @ 4:07-4:31 per KM (6:37-7:16 per mile) and 400's at 4:52-5:11 (7:51-8:20 per mile). I find the important thing (take my amateur advice with a pinch of salt) is to keep all the reps the same time, so if you run 200m in 51 seconds, make sure the rest of the reps take 50-52 seconds.

Each to their own of course - and you'll need to figure out what works for you - but for me it was 400m's and 1k reps. (so one week I'd do 10x400m with 400m recoveries and the next would be 4x1k reps with 60 second recoveries)

Amirani

Yep, would echo the above for the most part.

I personally went from a 30 min > sub 20 min 5k in about a year. Most important thing really is consistent running. 5k is an endurance distance, you're going to want to improve your Vo2 max and lactate thresholds by training your legs and your heart/lungs to be used to operating at a higher level than normal. You do this by running further or for longer for the most part. Your approach is largely correct in trying to get in a long-run per week that is a good deal more than your 5k distance. As suggested above, 1 speed session per week where you train at or above your desired 5k pace for intervals would also be very useful. Outside of this speed session, all your runs should be slower than your desired race pace.

Also important is body mass. You've made a strong improvement here by dropping 2 stone already. The leaner you are, the easier this is going to be; both on your legs and in cardiovascular terms.

Murph_D

Losing more weight will also help enormously with injury prevention, as you will be putting less stress on joints etc.

Best of luck with it. Great progress so far!

Sub430

If you can spare £4.99, you can get a personalised 5k plan here.
You just need to give him your target race, a recent 5k PB, a longer PB if available and he'll do the rest.
You get a 12 week plan, what distances to do, the paces to do them at, it's well worth the few quid.

Graham1882

Brilliant thanks for all the advice above all greatly appreciated.

Graham1882

Thanks Sub430 definitely worth a go. Trying to improve your time becomes addictive.

TheBigGreen

Graham1882 wrote: »

Thanks Big Green unfortunately due to family and work it's not an option at the moment. In your sprints are you jogging and then increase the speed for 200 and then returning to a jogging pace?

What race are you aiming for? I can't even do parkrun at the minute, as it's the same time as the little ones swimming haha.

Running the 200s at 1k pace usually but depends on the recovery time.

Aiming for a 5k race in a few months time. I do a few parkruns every now and then, always enjoy them.

I took a screenshot of the McMillan 6 week 5k Plan from Strava (might be a help?).

Murph_D

Sub430 wrote: »

If you can spare £4.99, you can get a personalised 5k plan here.
You just need to give him your target race, a recent 5k PB, a longer PB if available and he'll do the rest.
You get a 12 week plan, what distances to do, the paces to do them at, it's well worth the few quid.

I’d tend to avoid this kind of commercialization at least in the short term and concentrate on the basics - base mileage and weight loss, then basic speed and endurance work.

Graham1882

Murph_D wrote:

I’d tend to avoid this kind of commercialization at least in the short term and concentrate on the basics - base mileage and weight loss, then basic speed and endurance work.

Thanks Murph_D do you mind me asking why?

Bob Harris

I got down from about 23.30 to under 20mins in about 6 months. I cycled longer slower runs with speed work and then a tempo run. For example I might do 8-10km on Sunday at 5.30km/min pace. Then Tuesday do some reps after a 10min w/u for example 8x500 metres at close to planned race pace with 90secs - 2min recovery.
Friday might be a tempo run which might be a straight 6km at 80% race pace. So if I was training for a 20min 5km I'd do these at about 4.30/4.40min/km or I might do a fartlek and do 2km to start then 500m at 90% race pace 500m recovery until I'd done 6km. On Sunday I'd have a long run and more or less repeat the process. As you get fitter and faster you can adjust times as you progress.

To vary things I might choose a different long run route and take in more hills, throw in hill sprints instead of reps some days and vary the rep distance and do 200m somedays and up to 1km on others.

If you do that consistently you'll make steady progress and when race day comes around stick to the plan and be prepared to hurt a bit.

The above worked for me. I'm not saying it was the best plan and I know had I trained better and harder it would have produced better results but I acheived my goals doing it.

ariana`

Graham1882 wrote: »

Thanks Murph_D do you mind me asking why?

Possibly because it's not necessary.

For the level you are at if you want to follow a 5k plan there are plenty freely available. Alternatively there are forums like this one where you will get lots of free advice from lots of lovely people

Here is a starting point for free 5k plans

If you did really want to spend a few quid then personally i'd buy a book that would have a variety of plans in it AND teach you the purpose behind the plans and various types of runs/sessions and most likely teach you loads of other running stuff such as nutrition/injury prevention etc.

Keeks

Graham1882 wrote: »

Thanks Murph_D do you mind me asking why?

Because there is a very good free plan done by one of the boardies here....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOkLQ_a9NHWe97yaRkfF6ArFmCHmtf9y1tU0LR7uMr8/edit#gid=950799331

skyblue46

Keeks wrote: »

Because there is a very good free plan done by one of the boardies here....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOkLQ_a9NHWe97yaRkfF6ArFmCHmtf9y1tU0LR7uMr8/edit#gid=950799331

Just a bit of caution here. This plan is designed for graduates of DCM. Obviously that's not a prerequisite but it does assume a good mileage base, the backing of numerous long runs and the completion of the base phase before beginning the 5-10k plan.

As a couple of knowledgeable posters have said already getting a more solid base to work from is the single most important thing. Without that you will most likely find yourself injured if you try to jump into numerous speed sessions/ tempos weekly.

Graham1882

Bob Harris wrote:

I got down from about 23.30 to under 20mins in about 6 months. I cycled longer slower runs with speed work and then a tempo run. For example I might do 8-10km on Sunday at 5.30km/min pace. Then Tuesday do some reps after a 10min w/u for example 8x500 metres at close to planned race pace with 90secs - 2min recovery. Friday might be a tempo run which might be a straight 6km at 80% race pace. So if I was training for a 20min 5km I'd do these at about 4.30/4.40min/km or I might do a fartlek and do 2km to start then 500m at 90% race pace 500m recovery until I'd done 6km. On Sunday I'd have a long run and more or less repeat the process. As you get fitter and faster you can adjust times as you progress.

Thanks Bob yeah definitely something to work. Congrats on getting the time down.

ariana` wrote:

If you did really want to spend a few quid then personally i'd buy a book that would have a variety of plans in it AND teach you the purpose behind the plans and various types of runs/sessions and most likely teach you loads of other running stuff such as nutrition/injury prevention etc.

Good point about getting a book about different plans. I am asking about reducing 5k times but looking at 10k races also. Like a kid in a sweet shop just want it all but need to stick to my limits.

Keeks wrote:

Because there is a very good free plan done by one of the boardies here....

Thanks Keeks

skyblue46 wrote:

As a couple of knowledgeable posters have said already getting a more solid base to work from is the single most important thing. Without that you will most likely find yourself injured if you try to jump into numerous speed sessions/ tempos weekly.

Thanks and noted Sky Blue. I know from reading forums here which have been a great help already, that I should have easier runs also. I don't know if it's immaturity in training but unless I feel zonked at the end of a run, I don't think it was worth while. Going by posts on here a change in mindset is also needed from me.

Itziger

Thanks and noted Sky Blue. I know from reading forums here which have been a great help already, that I should have easier runs also. I don't know if it's immaturity in training but unless I feel zonked at the end of a run, I don't think it was worth while. Going by posts on here a change in mindset is also needed from me.

Yep. You'll need to change that idea. The ruin of lots of amateurs I'd say. Especially if you want to stick around for a few years. Other than the pros, who are getting easy runs in anyway cos they're getting out 2 or 3 times a day AND who have masseurs, docs, coaches and what not looking after them, doing hard stuff on every run works for very, very few I'd wager.

Graham1882

Itziger wrote:

Yep. You'll need to change that idea. The ruin of lots of amateurs I'd say. Especially if you want to stick around for a few years. Other than the pros, who are getting easy runs in anyway cos they're getting out 2 or 3 times a day AND who have masseurs, docs, coaches and what not looking after them, doing hard stuff on every run works for very, very few I'd wager.

Definitely want to maintain the running. I have already noticed a difference in my own mood and health. If I am honest it's also to set an example for small ones to. They are so impressionable and best to lead by example. Keep the slow runs slow.

Itziger

Graham1882 wrote: »

Definitely want to maintain the running. I have already noticed a difference in my own mood and health. If I am honest it's also to set an example for small ones to. They are so impressionable and best to lead by example. Keep the slow runs slow.

I agree on all the above!! Weight, mental balance, good example.......

Swashbuckler

Itziger wrote:

Thanks and noted Sky Blue. I know from reading forums here which have been a great help already, that I should have easier runs also. I don't know if it's immaturity in training but unless I feel zonked at the end of a run, I don't think it was worth while. Going by posts on here a change in mindset is also needed from me.

A common mistake. To give you context I spent 7 years trying to run a pb in every training run and I made very little gains. It's a common theme amongst beginner runners especially. You have to ask yourself do you want to be a better runner or do you want to lose weight. It's not easy doing a slow easy run when you want to lose some lbs but to become a better runner you need to train right, and that means not being zonked after every run.

Also bear in mind over time, with correct training you will both lose weight and become a better runner.

Graham1882

Swashbuckler wrote:

A common mistake. To give you context I spent 7 years trying to run a pb in every training run and I made very little gains. It's a common theme amongst beginner runners especially. You have to ask yourself do you want to be a better runner or do you want to lose weight. It's not easy doing a slow easy run when you want to lose some lbs but to become a better runner you need to train right, and that means not being zonked after every run.

Yeah it makes sense alright. I think because I saw the weight drop off and times improve so quickly, it just encouraged me to run hard all the time.

I have a feeling if I continued this way of running I would see my times not improve and risk of injury increase. It doesn't help when I bring the little one in the buggy and they are shouting "faster faster" and breaking there heart laughing haha.

Swashbuckler

Graham1882 wrote:

I have a feeling if I continued this way of running I would see my times not improve and risk of injury increase. It doesn't help when I bring the little one in the buggy and they are shouting "faster faster" and breaking there heart laughing haha.

Haha i can imagine. There's nothing wrong doing what you're doing if you're happy with it. But if you want to become a better runner than a change in mentality is definitely needed. Running hard all the time will only get you so far like you said. Progress will stagnate eventually.

Graham1882

Swashbuckler wrote:

Haha i can imagine. There's nothing wrong doing what you're doing if you're happy with it. But if you want to become a better runner than a change in mentality is definitely needed. Running hard all the time will only get you so far like you said. Progress will stagnate eventually.

Yeah what your saying is right, I'll just need to put into practise.

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice much appreciated.

joey1111

Bob Harris wrote: »

I got down from about 23.30 to under 20mins in about 6 months. I cycled longer slower runs with speed work and then a tempo run. For example I might do 8-10km on Sunday at 5.30km/min pace. Then Tuesday do some reps after a 10min w/u for example 8x500 metres at close to planned race pace with 90secs - 2min recovery.
Friday might be a tempo run which might be a straight 6km at 80% race pace. So if I was training for a 20min 5km I'd do these at about 4.30/4.40min/km or I might do a fartlek and do 2km to start then 500m at 90% race pace 500m recovery until I'd done 6km. On Sunday I'd have a long run and more or less repeat the process. As you get fitter and faster you can adjust times as you progress.

To vary things I might choose a different long run route and take in more hills, throw in hill sprints instead of reps some days and vary the rep distance and do 200m somedays and up to 1km on others.

If you do that consistently you'll make steady progress and when race day comes around stick to the plan and be prepared to hurt a bit.

The above worked for me. I'm not saying it was the best plan and I know had I trained better and harder it would have produced better results but I acheived my goals doing it.

This sounds like the way to go

Graham1882

Hi folks

Just a note of thanks for the previous advice above. I did the 5k in the Great Ireland run today in 26.07. Probably felt I could have done better but going in the right direction. Definitely enjoyed the bit of competitiveness racing against others (well in my head it was a race).

Going to keep pushing for sub 22 before the end of the year. Onwards and upwards.

Cheers
G