Firebird enviromax

roy rodgers

Good morning my oily friends.

Have to install a boiler soon and the customer has gas oil.
I was gonna install a grant vortex but said they will need to change the oil to kerosene.
Anyways the customer came back and said that I can use a firebird enviromax on a low level flue that will be not problem with the gas oil.

Is this true?? I never fit firebirds and before I ring them I'd like the opinions of the experts.

Thanks

Wearb

AFAIK you may not use any oil boiler on diesel with a low level flue.
To be 100% you could ring Firebird, but I don't think there is even a need for that. But in case the customer quotes an instance of a plumber having successfully made such an installation, maybe having it from the horses mouth would strengthen your assertion.

agusta

No,you cant use gas oil with a low level flue.No the boiler cant be run on gas oil.Its a kerosene boiler.Firebird might say its possible,but they certainly wont give a warranty with the boiler.

agusta

Also,even if someone said it was possible.what nozzle, oil pressure,air box,combustion head would you use...,where would someone get this information in writing.its not in the manual for the boiler.

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

Also,even if someone said it was possible.what nozzle, oil pressure,air box,combustion head would you use...,where would someone get this information in writing.its not in the manual for the boiler.

Well to be pedantic about it you could work out nozzle size by matching size and pressure to boiler output. Then adjust air to get a good FGA reading.

Anyway there is a difference between what’s possible and what’s allowed and LLD isn’t allowed with diesel.

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

Well to be pedantic about it you could work out nozzle size by matching size and pressure to boiler output. Then adjust air to get a good FGA reading.

Anyway there is a difference between what’s possible and what’s allowed and LLD isn’t allowed with diesel.

Lets say it was possible.Yes i agree you could calculate nozzle etc..,but in my opinion the warranty would be void,what do you think..

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

Lets say it was possible.Yes i agree you could calculate nozzle etc..,but in my opinion the warranty would be void,what do you think..

I certainly agree that the warranty would be void. Also (as you already suggested) there would be a big difference between FB saying that it's possible and it being allowed.

Anyway, advising Roy of these things makes me feel like someone teaching g'ma how to suck eggs :pac::pac::pac:

jimf

yes he boilers can be run on gas oil but but but but the manf don't want them to be

they have the nozzle calculations and pressure already at hand I even have them but don't ask as I'm not sayin

that means you too agusta even your blackmail wont work on this one

agusta

jimf wrote: »

yes he boilers can be run on gas oil but but but but the manf don't want them to be

they have the nozzle calculations and pressure already at hand I even have them but don't ask as I'm not sayin

that means you too agusta even your blackmail wont work on this one

So will the manf still give the 5 warranty on the boiler in writing if running on gas oil.
Jimf,i know how to get information from you...,How Much will you charge:D

agusta

my understanding,gas oil,no warranty

jimf

agusta wrote: »

So will the manf still give the 5 warranty on the boiler in writing if running on gas oil.
Jimf,i know how to get information from you...,How Much will you charge:D

jaysus a tenner might get you started

jimf

agusta wrote: »

my understanding,gas oil,no warranty

as a lot wiser and older poster said during the week NO NO NO

jimf

agusta wrote: »

Lets say it was possible.Yes i agree you could calculate nozzle etc..,but in my opinion the warranty would be void,what do you think..

it would not be possible Declan because the nozzle output drops dramatically and the pressure increase is the opposite


its not like what we do at the moment for se boilers as in maybe dropping 2 nozzle sizes and increasing the pressure to somewhere around 12 bar

then do fga and happy days out the door with lolly in the pocket

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

it would not be possible Declan because the nozzle output drops dramatically and the pressure increase is the opposite


its not like what we do at the moment for se boilers as in maybe dropping 2 nozzle sizes and increasing the pressure to somewhere around 12 bar

then do fga and happy days out the door with lolly in the pocket

When you take into account that a litre of diesel has a different amount of energy than a litre of kerosene and then say decide on a burner output of 80,000btu and then a starting pressure of XX bar then the nozzle size can be worked out. The same for outputs other than 80,000.
I have being doing the sums, but don't want to post the results here, in case I tempt some fiddler. :eek:

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

When you take into account that a litre of diesel has a different amount of energy than a litre of kerosene and then say decide on a burner output of 80,000btu and then a starting pressure of XX bar then the nozzle size can be worked out. The same for outputs other than 80,000.
I have being doing the sums, but don't want to post the results here, in case I tempt some fiddler. :eek:

you would be shocked at the settings wearb

I was and its not easy to shock me

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

you would be shocked at the settings wearb

I was and its not easy to shock me

I'll pm you my result

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

I'll pm you my result

go on so

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

go on so

You don't have to confirm my pm.....you're getting no tenner from me. :pac::pac::pac:

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

You don't have to confirm my pm.....you're getting no tenner from me. :pac::pac::pac:

I know your from wexford

need I say anymore

jimf

agusta will be free shortly hes just got a bit more ironing to finish

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

I know your from wexford

need I say anymore

A generous lot here in the SSE, but handing out our hard earned to the Shannon siders is a step too far. :P

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

agusta will be free shortly hes just got a bit more ironing to finish

You're so PC :D:D

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

You're so PC :D:D

your not the first to say that ;);)

agusta

A service man down my way fitted a new HE boiler recently, ,changing over from gas oil to kerosene.He got a new hi-tech suction pump to remove the gas oil.when the oil delivery driver arrived,I heard the service man had a tooth brush on a stick in one hand and the suction pump hose in the other trying to get the last traces of gas oil out of the tank.Now there a service man that wasnt going to let even a tablespoon of gas oil into a HE boiler.
The oil tank delivery guy wasnt a happy camper.He had to sit on the pier for an hour waiting to fill the tank:pac::eek::D

jimf

not correct dec it was 2 hours

get your facts straight

agusta

if a HE boiler is set up on gas oil,i do think the manufactures will say its possible.However they will not give the setting in writing or in the mi.So a 4 year oil boiler leaking = no warranty, in my opinion

agusta

jimf wrote: »

not correct dec it was 2 hours

get your facts straight

At least i was right about the toothbrush on a stick.the unlucky delivery driver,heard it didnt get home until all hours:rolleyes:

jimf

you had more than 2 id say

agusta

:cool:

jimf

agusta wrote: »

A service man down my way fitted a new HE boiler recently, ,changing over from gas oil to kerosene.He got a new hi-tech suction pump to remove the gas oil.when the oil delivery driver arrived,I heard the service man had a tooth brush on a stick in one hand and the suction pump hose in the other trying to get the last traces of gas oil out of the tank.Now there a service man that wasnt going to let even a tablespoon of gas oil into a HE boiler.
The oil tank delivery guy wasnt a happy camper.He had to sit on the pier for an hour waiting to fill the tank:pac::eek::D

aren't we lucky to have such a competent guy in our area :D

Tom44

Wimps
I often set up new (not firebird) boiler on diesel after an install (my jobs, my risk) and retune back to Kero at next fill.
Firebird don't burn diesel as easily, but I had one on bio fuel, before that died a death.

You can burn anything, even aldi cooking oil (I had fun with that) 40c per liter, if you want.
But what's legally allowed is a different story.

jimf

this is Ireland tom

whats this legally allowed you speak off

Tom44

jimf wrote: »

this is Ireland tom

whats this legally allowed you speak off

Low level flues & diesel.


Had great fun with Geminox, they were all low level but recommended diesel

jimf

ah shur tis there 20 years tis grand

or words to that effect spring to mind

Wearb

Anyone seen Roy, or have we scared him off with our musings. Probably laughing his head off at us somewhere. :pac::pac::pac:

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Anyone seen Roy, or have we scared him off with our musings. Probably laughing his head off at us somewhere. :pac::pac::pac:

would you blame him :o:o

roy rodgers

Thanks lads I read every post with interest and ye are all right. Yes we all know we can burn gas oil by reducing nozzle sizes and pump pressures etc etc. But at the end of the day the manufacture isn't gonna stand over it and that's the line for me not to cross. We install over 250 boilers a year (mainly gas) and the last thing I want is call backs..
Now IF it was my own house id also agree with ye. A reillo burner will burn anything. But i was always told ya could never burn gas oil off a low level flue. I remember seeing plenty a black wall from it!!!!

Anyways went back to customer with the acknowledgment and wisdom from ye all and a call to firebird and they finally agreed to change over to kerosene when the last drop of gas oil is gone.

Thanks again lads ye are all on the ball!