#120db movement

Harika

Pepefrogok wrote: »

This is pretty depressing, it reminds me of when talk was starting to come out from the northern England town's about the mass abuse of girls, I suppose many of yous making light here were also downplaying that, making fun if the stupid "Muslim ray guns" man who was doing everything he could in his limited ability to highlight the harm being inflicted on his community, this is identical, go on tell the truth, how many of yous got that one wrong and called it far right rubbish? I suppose when the facts hit the ground yous will do what yous done last time? Not learn to listen, instead downplay, laugh and dismiss as racist far right rubbish, I'll be on the right side of history again.

Is that a quote from Galileo Galilee? :pac: Anyway no one denies that there are issues, but police and politics are working here as they should, worthy of states with working legal system. The alt-right are only riding on it, to gain popularity.

Alun

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Out of curiosity, have you hit the streets of Koln to find out exactly what is happening, or are you just regurgitating the articles that you are reading on certain websites.

I doubt he could point to it on a map without Googling it first.

Sonics2k

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Genuine question - are 'Antifa' the heroes or the villains? I assume they're anti-facism, and facism is bad , so fair enough, but they usually seem to be spoken of with distain.

its very hard to know who to root for these days.

To be brutally honest with you, a lot of them are just absolute scumbags and wannabe anarchists.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Sonics2k wrote: »

To be brutally honest with you, a lot of them are just absolute scumbags and wannabe anarchists.

Thats the problem I have with almost all of this stuff - what initially starts out as a well meaning idea, constantly seems to get hijacked by - for want of a better word - radicals, which makes the rest of them look like lunatics. Most of them don't seem to help any cause by the way they constantly shout down any differing opinion or label opponents to their ideas as racists / sexists / etc.

It seems like theres no point in even attempting to have a reasonable discussion in most cases, as they stick so staunchly to their ideals that any compromise at all is unacceptable.

Richard Hillman

Even after Cologne, the British Towns and the Swedish cover-ups people are still questioning if this is actually happening???? Because...er... right wing and stuff.

Pepefrogok

Pepefrogok wrote: »

This is pretty depressing, it reminds me of when talk was starting to come out from the northern England town's about the mass abuse of girls, I suppose many of yous making light here were also downplaying that, making fun if the stupid "Muslim ray guns" man who was doing everything he could in his limited ability to highlight the harm being inflicted on his community, this is identical, go on tell the truth, how many of yous got that one wrong and called it far right rubbish? I suppose when the facts hit the ground yous will do what yous done last time? Not learn to listen, instead downplay, laugh and dismiss as racist far right rubbish, I'll be on the right side of history again.

I'd be quite in the camp of stricter regulations and checks for immigration into Europe, particularly for those from the M.East. I've participated in many of the threads on boards about migration, or the crimes done by migrants in Europe. And I have no sympathy or support for you. Why? Because you're advocating the "white" European mandate through these supremacist organizations. Nah. Not my thing.

Harika

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Even after Cologne, the British Towns and the Swedish cover-ups people are still questioning if this is actually happening???? Because...er... right wing and stuff.

Who is denying what?

ancapailldorcha

Pepefrogok wrote: »

This is pretty depressing, it reminds me of when talk was starting to come out from the northern England town's about the mass abuse of girls, I suppose many of yous making light here were also downplaying that, making fun if the stupid "Muslim ray guns" man who was doing everything he could in his limited ability to highlight the harm being inflicted on his community, this is identical, go on tell the truth, how many of yous got that one wrong and called it far right rubbish? I suppose when the facts hit the ground yous will do what yous done last time? Not learn to listen, instead downplay, laugh and dismiss as racist far right rubbish, I'll be on the right side of history again.

These scumbags just saw an excuse to push their agenda. They don't care about the girls who were abused and that's pretty transparent to be honest with you.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be quite in the camp of stricter regulations and checks for immigration into Europe, particularly for those from the M.East. I've participated in many of the threads on boards about migration, or the crimes done by migrants in Europe. And I have no sympathy or support for you. Why? Because you're advocating the "white" European mandate through these supremacist organizations. Nah. Not my thing.

+1

There's plenty of people concerned with immigration who aren't alt-right fascists and I respect their sincerity enough to take them seriously. I disagree with them but respectfully so.

hatrickpatrick

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Genuine question - are 'Antifa' the heroes or the villains? I assume they're anti-facism, and facism is bad , so fair enough, but they usually seem to be spoken of with distain.

its very hard to know who to root for these days.

They regard anyone with right wing views as fascist, so really "antifa" is just code for "militantly anti-right".

It's just more of the moronic polarisation of politics. There's no such thing as middle ground anymore - at least not in the eyes of these people. You can't be even the slightest bit critical or hesitant of open borders or multiculturalism without being branded a neo-Nazi by these types, and that's completely destroyed their credibility as a genuine political movement.

Chips Lovell

A.) Antifa is a very much a US phenomenon. I'm not sure why Irish people are so obsessed with it.

B.) There certainly is such a thing as the middle ground. i'd expect most posters on this thread wouldn't have as much truck with them as they would with the far right.

VinLieger

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Genuine question - are 'Antifa' the heroes or the villains? I assume they're anti-facism, and facism is bad , so fair enough, but they usually seem to be spoken of with distain.

its very hard to know who to root for these days.

Their motives are good but the irony is their actions and the way they go about things can ironically come across as quite fascist as well.

Now im in no way saying they are anywhere near as bad as the kind of people or groups they are opposing and I think the issue is the are usually made up of younger millennials who seem to see the world in a very black and white way, ie they are good and people they disagree with are bad and they will use any and all means to oppose them including violence.

I suppose they are similar to something like vigilantes with a political slant.

TomSweeney

So I wonder why German new years eve parties needed a safe female only zone ??
hmmm or how about those Cologne mass sex attacks a few years ago ?
I don't know much about the movement behind this maybe they are dodgy, but that doesn't mean there isn't a massive spike in
sex crimes in Europe - in particular Germany and Sweden.

The lefts denial of this is laughable, burying their heads in the sand.

TomSweeney

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ah yes, Tommy Robinson. Aka Stephen Lennon. Aka Andrew McMaster. Aka Paul Harris. I'm sure a notorious thug and racist who's been in prison for mortgage fraud is trustworthy.

Racist ?

Whats he said thats racist ?

ancapailldorcha

TomSweeney wrote: »

The lefts denial of this is laughable, burying their heads in the sand.

This succinctly sums up why I'm so convinced that the far right ultimately doesn't give a sh*t about anything but hating foreigners. There's nothing funny in any of the events you allude to or any of the reaction or lack thereof to it.

circadian

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Even after Cologne, the British Towns and the Swedish cover-ups people are still questioning if this is actually happening???? Because...er... right wing and stuff.

Swedish cover ups?

TomSweeney

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This succinctly sums up why I'm so convinced that the far right ultimately doesn't give a sh*t about anything but hating foreigners. There's nothing funny in any of the events you allude to or any of the reaction or lack thereof to it.

Seriosuly ! ??

I don't actually mean haha funny, stop twisting this into something it's not.
Hating foreigners ???

Really?

Maybe it's a genuine concern for an ideology that isn't compatible with western civilisation.

If you really are serious above there thinking I find it FUNNY ... then perhaps you should check if you are on the spectrum.

Oh yeah and some direct quotes where Tommy Robinson is a racist please ... i'll be waiting , you won't find any genuine ones.

TomSweeney

VinLieger wrote: »

Their motives are good but the irony is their actions and the way they go about things can ironically come across as quite fascist as well.

Now im in no way saying they are anywhere near as bad as the kind of people or groups they are opposing and I think the issue is the are usually made up of younger millennials who seem to see the world in a very black and white way, ie they are good and people they disagree with are bad and they will use any and all means to oppose them including violence.

I suppose they are similar to something like vigilantes with a political slant.

Nope, their motives aren't good at all, they are the modern fascists,
- thugs looking for excuses for trouble.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

So I wonder why German new years eve parties needed a safe female only zone ??

I think you'll find that many countries/events are setting up safe zones for women, and it's nothing to do with migrants. There has been a rise n awareness regarding sexual assault across Europe.

hmmm or how about those Cologne mass sex attacks a few years ago ?

A few years ago... and no massive surge in sexual attacks since then. You really should do some proper research on the topic.

I don't know much about the movement behind this maybe they are dodgy, but that doesn't mean there isn't a massive spike in
sex crimes in Europe - in particular Germany and Sweden.

Massive spike? Links, please.

The lefts denial of this is laughable, burying their heads in the sand.

I'm not of the left. I'm actually rather much in the middle ground, more of the old style conservative.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you'll find that many countries/events are setting up safe zones for women, and it's nothing to do with migrants. There has been a rise n awareness regarding sexual assault across Europe.



A few years ago... and no massive surge in sexual attacks since then. You really should do some proper research on the topic.



Massive spike? Links, please.



I'm not of the left. I'm actually rather much in the middle ground, more of the old style conservative.

OK head firmly in the sand so ...

Harika

TomSweeney wrote: »

OK head firmly in the sand so ...

I think you re doing that by denying that everything that is left of yours is ignoring the issues

hatrickpatrick

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This succinctly sums up why I'm so convinced that the far right ultimately doesn't give a sh*t about anything but hating foreigners.

If people have a tribal mentality and oppose immigration from countries with radically different cultures or languages to their own, then that is their choice, and a perfectly legitimate political position. The current mainstream left would have it that anyone who displays any sort of cultural nationalism whatsoever is a Nazi, and that's an absolutely ridiculous level of hyperbole.

Personally I don't mind, to take one example, getting on to a DART in the middle of the summer and being surrounded by Spanish-speaking students. Some people do mind. They would prefer if immigration to this country was limited to those who speak English as a first language.

They have every right to their own opinion on the matter, to air that opinion, and to advocate - just like any of us has the right to advocate - that this opinion be adopted as a governmental policy, limiting immigration from those who don't speak English. Again this is just one example, but the point is that the radical left who are currently branded as "antifa" do not believe this. They believe in an Overton Window which treats political opinions to the right of the window as socially unacceptable views to hold, and in the eyes of many people, in a democratic society, that is fundamentally at odds with the concept of freedom of opinion.

"Hating foreigners" is not the same as "not wanting foreigners in my country". They are entirely different views to hold. Personally I don't hold either of them, but I find it absurd to regard the latter group of people in the same bracket as the former.

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

OK head firmly in the sand so ...

Lol. Better than my head up some fascists ass.

I'm all for better controls on migration in Europe, and more interested in setting up camps/areas in non-European countries rather than encouraging them to relocate to Europe... But I'm completely against allowing the Alt/Extreme-right any real power. Promoting their mandate is a step towards chaos.

I do notice that you can't be bothered to answer any of my requests. :rolleyes:

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol. Better than my head up some fascists ass.

I'm all for better controls on migration in Europe, and more interested in setting up camps/areas in non-European countries rather than encouraging them to relocate to Europe... But I'm completely against allowing the Alt/Extreme-right any real power. Promoting their mandate is a step towards chaos.

I do notice that you can't be bothered to answer any of my requests. :rolleyes:

So I have my head up some fascists ass ????

You are pretty much invoking Godwins law here !! - just short of it!
I actually agree with your 2nd paragraph there

TomSweeney

TomSweeney wrote: »

So I have my head up some fascists ass ????

You are pretty much invoking Godwins law here !! - just short of it!
I actually agree with your 2nd paragraph there

I didn't say where your head was. Don't be so sensitive.

ancapailldorcha

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The current mainstream left would have it that anyone who displays any sort of cultural nationalism whatsoever is a Nazi, and that's an absolutely ridiculous level of hyperbole.

I'm not of the mainstream left and haven't labelled anyone in this manner.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Again this is just one example, but the point is that the radical left who are currently branded as "antifa" do not believe this. They believe in an Overton Window which treats political opinions to the right of the window as socially unacceptable views to hold, and in the eyes of many people, in a democratic society, that is fundamentally at odds with the concept of freedom of opinion.

You won't find a single example of me defending Antifa on this site. Not one.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

"Hating foreigners" is not the same as "not wanting foreigners in my country". They are entirely different views to hold. Personally I don't hold either of them, but I find it absurd to regard the latter group of people in the same bracket as the former.

Which is why I take care to specify "far right" as opposed to "right". For some of them it is about hating foreigners. For others, it's concern about pressure on services and population growth.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

For others, it's concern about pressure on services and population growth.

I'd lean kinda towards this. But mostly because I don't believe that unrestrained multiculturalism is a good idea. I would love to see some unbiased research into how multiculturalism places stress on the local culture, and what the real effects are. When I was a teenager, all the talk was about the Melting pot of Europe, but all such talk seems to have been banished into the background once migration picked up.

I'm not against migration, as such. I believe it to be healthy when it's applied fairly to skilled and educated people. I don't believe that Europe needs more unskilled people, those who are unwilling to learn the local language or those who seek to create independent cultural zones within a country. I'm very much in favor of assimilation, and the local culture should always remain dominant.

Quite conservative in a way rather than the "right".

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd lean kinda towards this. But mostly because I don't believe that unrestrained multiculturalism is a good idea. I would love to see some unbiased research into how multiculturalism places stress on the local culture, and what the real effects are. When I was a teenager, all the talk was about the Melting pot of Europe, but all such talk seems to have been banished into the background once migration picked up.

Depends on how you define "unrestrained multiculturalism". I live in London so I suppose I'm just used to it. If you are referring to migration from outside Europe, there is no reason for the government not to control that.

_Dara_

JenovaProject wrote: »

Pretty sad that German women need the far right to help promote their movement...I wonder why the left are not doing anything to make more people aware of these issues.
Surely a bunch of Liberal lefty types could take over from the far-right and push this into the public view instead.

Is this 120 db thing even being supported by many German women?

Perhaps many German women realise that if they are unlucky enough to be the victim of a sexual assault, it will more than likely be perpetrated by somebody known to them.

mcmoustache

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

George Soros. Nobody seems to have mentioned him yet so I thought I would.

Don't you mean (((George Soros)))?

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

I would love to see some unbiased research into how multiculturalism places stress on the local culture, and what the real effects are. When I was a teenager, all the talk was about the Melting pot of Europe, but all such talk seems to have been banished into the background once migration picked up.

Anecdotal evidence here so kind of the opposite of what you asked for (:D) but a good example would be Toronto where I have lived previously and am in the process of moving back to permanently, where 51% of the population are foreign born and from just about any corner of the globe you could think of (and the country as a whole has a higher number of refugees per capita than almost any country in Europe).

It works very well for them, more or less everyone gets on really well, and the city seemed open and safe to me compared even to Dublin (which I don't find nearly as 'dangerous' as some like to make out either). Mind you that didn't stop multiple people who have never been there, a few right here on AH, trying to tell me it was a hell hole over poverty and crime where people were afraid to walk into "the no go zones 'they' don't tell you about!!" which entertained me no end.