Charging question - M9 - Hyundai Ioniq

fricatus

Hi, I'm considering getting a Hyundai Ioniq and I'm just trying to figure out a few things, one of which is the occasional Dublin trip that I'm going to have to do a few times per year. I can borrow an ICE if need be, so I'm not stuck. I'm in Waterford city and the Dublin destinations are usually near the airport but also sometimes Stillorgan direction.

I'm just wondering first of all if anyone has experience of the Waterford-Dublin route in an Ioniq.

Secondly, I see that there's a Combo DC 45 kW charger in Tesco in Naas, which seems to be the key milestone. How is this for reliability, and also availability (would I be likely to be queuing to use it?).

The last question is whether the charger in Knocktopher (near J10) is a runner. I see on the E-Cars app that it's Chademo 50 kW, which (correct me if I'm wrong) won't work for the Ioniq. But the app also says that there's a Fast AC (Type 2) 43 kW there, so would that be to all intents and purposes a fast charger? Or is there some sort of limitation on the Type 2 adapter or the AC charge type? If I was doing Waterford to Dublin, how long would this take me to get back up to the remaining range?

n97 mini

fricatus wrote: »

Secondly, I see that there's a Combo DC 45 kW charger in Tesco in Naas, which seems to be the key milestone. How is this for reliability, and also availability (would I be likely to be queuing to use it?).

Disaster of a location. Don't rely on being able to get on it till after 10pm. I don't bother with this one any more.

fricatus wrote: »

The last question is whether the charger in Knocktopher (near J10) is a runner. I see on the E-Cars app that it's Chademo 50 kW, which (correct me if I'm wrong) won't work for the Ioniq. But the app also says that there's a Fast AC (Type 2) 43 kW there, so would that be to all intents and purposes a fast charger? Or is there some sort of limitation on the Type 2 adapter or the AC charge type? If I was doing Waterford to Dublin, how long would this take me to get back up to the remaining range?

Ioniq can't charge off Fast AC at 43kw. The best it can do on AC is about 7kw. Every hour you're plugged in will add about 25% battery capacity.

jprboy

You could also consider some longer routes better served by CCS chargers:

1. M11/N11/N30/N25 via Wicklow/Gorey/Enniscorthy/New Ross

2. M7/M8/R693/N10/M9 via Urlingford/Kilkenny City

Both longer but well worth it if as you say you only do this a few times a year

ELM327

You will not get a charge in Naas without queuing. Never. (I once had to queue at midnight, and have also seen 3 cars queueing behind me)

ei9go

fricatus wrote: »

Hi, I'm considering getting a Hyundai Ioniq and I'm just trying to figure out a few things, one of which is the occasional Dublin trip that I'm going to have to do a few times per year. I can borrow an ICE if need be, so I'm not stuck. I'm in Waterford city and the Dublin destinations are usually near the airport but also sometimes Stillorgan direction.

I'm just wondering first of all if anyone has experience of the Waterford-Dublin route in an Ioniq.

Secondly, I see that there's a Combo DC 45 kW charger in Tesco in Naas, which seems to be the key milestone. How is this for reliability, and also availability (would I be likely to be queuing to use it?).

The last question is whether the charger in Knocktopher (near J10) is a runner. I see on the E-Cars app that it's Chademo 50 kW, which (correct me if I'm wrong) won't work for the Ioniq. But the app also says that there's a Fast AC (Type 2) 43 kW there, so would that be to all intents and purposes a fast charger? Or is there some sort of limitation on the Type 2 adapter or the AC charge type? If I was doing Waterford to Dublin, how long would this take me to get back up to the remaining range?

No CCS in Knocktopher.

I think you misunderstand Fast AC. It's only fast ac for a Renault. Your Hyundai can only get 7 kW from that connector.

berocore

fricatus wrote: »

Hi, I'm considering getting a Hyundai Ioniq and I'm just trying to figure out a few things, one of which is the occasional Dublin trip that I'm going to have to do a few times per year. I can borrow an ICE if need be, so I'm not stuck. I'm in Waterford city and the Dublin destinations are usually near the airport but also sometimes Stillorgan direction.

I'm just wondering first of all if anyone has experience of the Waterford-Dublin route in an Ioniq.

Secondly, I see that there's a Combo DC 45 kW charger in Tesco in Naas, which seems to be the key milestone. How is this for reliability, and also availability (would I be likely to be queuing to use it?).

The last question is whether the charger in Knocktopher (near J10) is a runner. I see on the E-Cars app that it's Chademo 50 kW, which (correct me if I'm wrong) won't work for the Ioniq. But the app also says that there's a Fast AC (Type 2) 43 kW there, so would that be to all intents and purposes a fast charger? Or is there some sort of limitation on the Type 2 adapter or the AC charge type? If I was doing Waterford to Dublin, how long would this take me to get back up to the remaining range?

There's a one year old Topaz at Junction 5 (Carlow) which has chargers but it doesn't show it on ECars map. It's kind of a half way to Dublin not sure whether it suits you or not but maybe you can plug in for 10-20min to boost up the range if there is a FCS.

https://www.topaz.ie/about-us/news-and-media/2017/Topaz-opens-new-flagship-site-in-Co-Carlow.aspx

peposhi

ELM327 wrote: »

You will not get a charge in Naas without queuing. Never. (I once had to queue at midnight, and have also seen 3 cars queueing behind me)

I must have been the lucky one. Always lol

ei9go

berocore wrote: »

There's a one year old Topaz at Junction 5 (Carlow) which has chargers but it doesn't show it on ECars map. It's kind of a half way to Dublin not sure whether it suits you or not but maybe you can plug in for 10-20min to boost up the range if there is a FCS.

https://www.topaz.ie/about-us/news-and-media/2017/Topaz-opens-new-flagship-site-in-Co-Carlow.aspx

Never knew it was there.

Anyone used charger there?

unkel

I drove from Dublin to Waterford city last summer in Ioniq. Drove mostly at the speed limits, but got a bit of range anxiety for the last stretch (I had not done a long trip before, I was aware there are no other fast chargers and we needed to just charge and go further on to east Cork that day and full family on board and no time to slow charge), so slowed down a bit to about 100km/h. Arrived at the charger with 10% left or something like that. 170km.

You can make it in summer to airport or to Stillorgan if you drive a bit below the speed limit. In winter probably only at about 100km/h

Alternative route is via M8 and M7, charge at Ballacolla or Midway and drive your car like you stole it

As others said, don't bother with the Naas charger, unless you absolutely have to.

CeilingFly

Applegreen at paulstown has charging points - not sure what type.

fricatus

berocore wrote: »

There's a one year old Topaz at Junction 5 (Carlow) which has chargers but it doesn't show it on ECars map. It's kind of a half way to Dublin not sure whether it suits you or not but maybe you can plug in for 10-20min to boost up the range if there is a FCS.

https://www.topaz.ie/about-us/news-and-media/2017/Topaz-opens-new-flagship-site-in-Co-Carlow.aspx

CeilingFly wrote: »

Applegreen at paulstown has charging points - not sure what type.

Thanks lads, funny that these don’t show up on the app, but those are ideal locations. I’ve used both several times in my ICE, but I wouldn’t have been looking out for chargers of course!

unkel

Weird. Are they not on any of the apps (apart from the ESB app). Has anyone in here used them and knows what type they are?

KCross

berocore wrote: »

There's a one year old Topaz at Junction 5 (Carlow) which has chargers but it doesn't show it on ECars map. It's kind of a half way to Dublin not sure whether it suits you or not but maybe you can plug in for 10-20min to boost up the range if there is a FCS.

https://www.topaz.ie/about-us/news-and-media/2017/Topaz-opens-new-flagship-site-in-Co-Carlow.aspx

Probably slow chargers.

The Topaz map only shows rapids, AFAIK. The article you linked above mentions "charging points for electric vehicles"

Very unlikely they added multiple FCP's to that site. I'd say its a couple of SCP's, which is better than nothing, but not much use unless you are planning stopping there for at least an hour to eat lunch.... maybe that's their idea!

unkel

The person who decided to put in a slow charger on a motorway service station should be shot

That's not fecking destination charging :mad:

Hooking up a 3.3kW charging Leaf for an hour will give it what, 10km of motorway range at 120km/h? And who the hell wants to wait at a service station for an hour :rolleyes:

unkel

Just looking at the location and that would have been a perfect point for a fast charger. Right bang in the middle between Dublin and Waterford.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

The person who decided to put in a slow charger on a motorway service station should be shot

That's not fecking destination charging :mad:

Hooking up a 3.3kW charging Leaf for an hour will give it what, 10km of motorway range at 120km/h? And who the hell wants to wait at a service station for an hour :rolleyes:

Should have put in a hotel with it

unkel wrote: »

Just looking at the location and that would have been a perfect point for a fast charger. Right bang in the middle between Dublin and Waterford.

On our frequent trips to Waterford (in the ICE) we usually stop there. Having said that I don't recall seeing any CPs there the last time, a few months ago.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

On our frequent trips to Waterford (in the ICE) we usually stop there.

I bet if that was a FCP, you would go in the EV?

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I bet if that was a FCP, you would go in the EV?

For sure!

ei9go

CeilingFly wrote: »

Applegreen at paulstown has charging points - not sure what type.

99% sure there are no chargers there

I don;t think there are charge points in that Topaz lads.

fricatus

berocore wrote: »

There's a one year old Topaz at Junction 5 (Carlow) which has chargers but it doesn't show it on ECars map. It's kind of a half way to Dublin not sure whether it suits you or not but maybe you can plug in for 10-20min to boost up the range if there is a FCS.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don;t think there are charge points in that Topaz lads.

I emailed them for details (junction5M9.sstn@topazenergy.ie) and they told me there are no electric car charging facilities there...

unkel wrote: »

Just looking at the location and that would have been a perfect point for a fast charger. Right bang in the middle between Dublin and Waterford.

For sure! Maybe we should all email them...

CeilingFly

ei9go wrote: »

99% sure there are no chargers there

apologies - its the tyre pressure machine I'm thinking of.

Hopefully both they and Topaz install one

cluaindiuic

Semi thread hijack. I was thinking about the Ionity chargers. If you could put 9 CCS chargers anywhere on the island of Ireland. Putting biases to the side. Where would you put them?

The Ionity image hints towards them being placed in the following spots:
1. Dublin
2. Cork
3. Limerick
4. Waterford
5. Galway
6. Derry
7. Belfast
8. Dundalk
9. Sligo

Urban coastal locations. Remarkably short sighted.

This is what I came up with:
1. Between Naas and Waterford – Paulstown Co. Kilkenny or Tinryland, Co. Carlow
2. Between Limerick and Cork – Charleville, Co. Cork
3. Cavan Town, Co. Cavan
4. Longford Town, Co. Longford
5. Between Waterford and Cork – Dungarvan, Co. Waterford
6. Tralee, Co. Kerry
7. Enniskillen, Co. Fermanagh
8. Omagh, Co. Tyrone
9. Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford

Could be talked out of one of the later ones in the list for one between Limerick and Galway.

berocore

fricatus wrote: »

I emailed them for details (junction5M9.sstn@topazenergy.ie) and they told me there are no electric car charging facilities there...


WTF 2017 built and no chargers ...

unkel

+1

I've not seen a business model but say the average charging EV spends €10 in the shop on coffee / food of which about €8 is profit margin. Free electricity takes about €1 off that, so €7 per EV.

Say you have 20 EVs charging per day (seems modest, should grow), so 7300 charges per year so over €50k in profit. That would mean that the €50k FCP charger would pay for itself within the year

How about we post an email address here and we all send them an email ?

They probably think there's far too few electrics to care.

fricatus

Deleted User wrote: »

How about we post an email address here and we all send them an email ?

They probably think there's far too few electrics to care.

Knock yerselves out. Email address in post 21...

ELM327

We should have a formatted template email and then all send it?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

We should have a formatted template email and then all send it?

They'll probably think it's from the same person lol.

we'd need to tell them that it would be better to install 150 kw chargers and have about 4 on site.

We'd need to explain that you wouldn't have only one petro pump and the amount of electric cars is growing and they take longer to fill the battery than a petrol or diesel takes to fill the tanks so we need more than 1 charge point and more powerful ones.

I mean how do you explain this ?

Anyway, all our emails would probably end up deleted, I doubt they'd care.

Email sent, this is how I started.

I drive an electric car and notice that there's no reason for me to stop at your service station due to the lack electric car chargers.

Then went on to say that I think it could be good for business etc.

They can charge for electricity or offer money off if they go inside to eat etc. they could make more profit per Kwh than per litre of diesel.

Told them they need 150+ Kw chargers as 45 was fine for 2011 but technology is evolving fast. Need 4+ chargers that they wouldn't think about installing 1 petrol pump etc.

There might be tax incentives for installing chargers.

CeilingFly

unkel wrote: »

+1

I've not seen a business model but say the average charging EV spends €10 in the shop on coffee / food of which about €8 is profit margin. Free electricity takes about €1 off that, so €7 per EV.

Say you have 20 EVs charging per day (seems modest, should grow), so 7300 charges per year so over €50k in profit. That would mean that the €50k FCP charger would pay for itself within the year

Of €10 - about 1.50 will be vat (mix bewteen 9% & 23%).

Gross margins of food in places like motorway services are about 70% - so about €6 GROSS profit - then you have the costs (rent, rates, utilities, staff, insurance etc etc etc)

But as more and moire electric cars come onto the roads, motorway services will install more and more fast chargers (and charge for their use) with the aim that you will be close to fully charged and on your way within 20-30 minutes - and hopefully spend properly in that 20 min.

In one of applegreen's plans (Naas ball I think - now put on hold) they had a bay of charging points outlined with about 12-15 chargers. Not only does it bring charging points, but it circumvents a limit some councils puts on parking spaces in these areas.

unkel

CeilingFly wrote: »

Gross margins of food in places like motorway services are about 70% - so about €6 GROSS profit - then you have the costs (rent, rates, utilities, staff, insurance etc etc etc)

Sure. I only gave a very basic example (with only a very limited number of charges per day)

Maybe a rural fast charger will not see a full ROI in one year, but even if it was 2, 3 or 4 years it would be a sound business decision to get one. Especially now the minister has banned the sale of internal combustion engine cars in a few years time (2030)

hi5

There's an Ecars charging point in Bagnalstown about 5 minutes drive from Paulstown, I drive past regularly and have never seen it being used.
It's right beside Aldi, so you can do some shopping too:)

BoatMad

It is Gov policy now to focus on incentivising fast charging at MSAs, and off-line facilities along the trunk routes, expect some policy decisions to be announced this year, tax incentives etc

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

It is Gov policy now to focus on incentivising fast charging at MSAs, and off-line facilities along the trunk routes, expect some policy decisions to be announced this year, tax incentives etc

Whats MSA?

ei9go

hi5 wrote: »

There's an Ecars charging point in Bagnalstown about 5 minutes drive from Paulstown, I drive past regularly and have never seen it being used.
It's right beside Aldi, so you can do some shopping too:)

I've used it a couple of times.

But avoid Sunday mornings as will be iced for Mass

BoatMad

For Dub waterford in an EV , I would definitely consider travelling via Enniscorthy

ei9go

If they upgraded the chademo only in Carlow, it would mostly solve the problem

fricatus

thierry14 wrote: »

Whats MSA?

Motorway Service Area

I got a good lengthy reply from Topaz Fuels director last week.

Basically the gist is that Topaz signed a contract with Ionity and hope to have 5 x 4 charger sites up and running by this time next year with the first one open by the Summer all going according to plan.

They don't know what sites yet but they'll be along the major motorway routes.

They are also in negotiations with the ESB to upgrade existing chargers which will most likely be much less powerful and also Topaz are looking into installing their own EV network.

So things are definitely looking up and I have better hopes for 2020 when my i3 PCp is up than I had for 2018 but charging certainly won't be free.

Question is what company will be the first to release a 350 Kw capable car ? 2 years, 5 years ? it's going to cost !

berocore

Deleted User wrote: »

I got a good lengthy reply from Topaz Fuels director last week.

Basically the gist is that Topaz signed a contract with Ionity and hope to have 5 x 4 charger sites up and running by this time next year with the first one open by the Summer all going according to plan.

They don't know what sites yet but they'll be along the major motorway routes.

They are also in negotiations with the ESB to upgrade existing chargers which will most likely be much less powerful and also Topaz are looking into installing their own EV network.

So things are definitely looking up and I have better hopes for 2020 when my i3 PCp is up than I had for 2018 but charging certainly won't be free.

Question is what company will be the first to release a 350 Kw capable car ? 2 years, 5 years ? it's going to cost !

Fairplay - at least a little bit of good news. Hopefully they deploy more of these FCS in future.

ELM327

Interesting, madlad
No one wants free charging indefinitely, we want expansion of the network into private ownership and competition. Ideally with a "one for all" access card (or better yet contactless payments).

350kW is a long time off yet, probable 3-5 years. 100kW is already available in Norway and probably going to be the new norm for CCS in the next 12 months.
Can't see chademo going beyond 50kW (with a few 100kW) really. Ioniq will charge at 70kW on a 100kW CCS charger. I reckon on a 500V 150kW charger it could go higher.

Yes a one for all card is essential or we'll end up with the disastrous situation like in the U.K. Or perhaps in Topaz stations you might pay for leccy just like petrol, or it could at least be an option.

I wonder who will be the first with 350 Kw charging ? BMW ? Hopefully the 3 series will charge faster than 100 Kw. It still amazes me that they limit the i3 to 50 Kw with an AC cooled pack.

Our next big b1tch and moan here on boards will be the cheek of those 50 Kw cars using the 350 Kw network !

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

For Dub waterford in an EV , I would definitely consider travelling via Enniscorthy

That would take a lot of extra time. It would make more sense if you have a car that can't do 170km at 120km/h to just drive a bit more slowly and that lovely and empty M9, although I prefer not to do that myself

ewj1978

I drive into Carlow fcp and then down to dungarvan but I have a leaf. We've commented on the lack of facilities on the M9 for years but TBH it shows a complete lack of thinking from planners that new Stations ,anywhere in the country, aren't forced to put chargers into their plans.

Also commented to herself that if I had the money I'd start a business and put FCPS into every applegreen/topaz in Ireland. They'd make money on the food/coffee and I'd make it back on the leccy prices.

Call me Jim O'Leary :P

CeilingFly

ewj1978 wrote: »

I drive into Carlow fcp and then down to dungarvan but I have a leaf. We've commented on the lack of facilities on the M9 for years but TBH it shows a complete lack of thinking from planners that new Stations ,anywhere in the country, aren't forced to put chargers into their plans

To be fair it's not up to planners to give commercial direction to a business.

The market will dictate

liamog

CeilingFly wrote: »

To be fair it's not up to planners to give commercial direction to a business.

The market will dictate

Isn't that literally the job of planners, they zone for certain commercial amenities. They can't force installation but they could definitely make it a condition of planning permission for new stations.

cros13

There's a new petrol station being built beside the Tesco Monread McDonalds (along with the new junction which will make access easier).

No rapids in the plans.

liamog

We (the boards totally 100% unofficial EV admirers association) should start raising planning objections.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

There's a new petrol station being built beside the Tesco Monread McDonalds (along with the new junction which will make access easier).

No rapids in the plans.

It's hilarious(ly bad).