SOUND CELLAR REFUSING TO REFUND RANDY NEWMAN TIX

Echoplex

Hi, we are in Cork. A friend in Dublin buys Concert Tickets regularly at Sound Cellar, Nassau Street. She bought six Randy Newman Vicar St. Tickets. Four posted to Cork. Gig Cancelled. Tix posted back to her. They are Lost in Post, with no chance of recovery. Even if they are stolen from the envelope at Central Sorting they are valueless, they will not be refunded anywhere as they all are stamped Sound Cellar, with the numbers of ours identified. We have spoken to Tommy, Cathal, and Sarah, at the Shop, 7 times now.
They are refusing to refund claiming they have to return all the tickets to Aiken Promotions. This is absurd as the gig was cancelled. Zero sum, no gig, no tickets, no money owed or paid either way.
Sound Cellar sell Tix for Cash only, no receipts given.
Ultimately, one way or another, they will have to Refund.
They are stalling in the silly hope that they might get to keep our €490.
This is SHAMEFUL. Do not buy from SC, and if you must, pay by card or insist on a Receipt.
DD

phunkadelic

Worth contacting Aiken on it to see if that is their policy for cancelled shows.

Echoplex

I have done. Vicar St. which is home of AP, policy is stated on the their website. Get Refund at Point of Purchase. Sound Cellar have our money, not Peter Aiken.

DD

phunkadelic

Echoplex wrote: »

Vicar St. which is home of AP, policy is stated on the their website. Get Refund at Point of Purchase. Sound Cellar have our money, not Peter Aiken.

DD

I'd say if you get on to Aiken they may be helpful and help to put pressure on Sound cellar

Echoplex

I did, they are nice to talk to and sound reasonable, and their ticket specialist will look into it next week. But it really has nothing to do with them. Nothing. The Tickets were sold by Sound Cellar to us. Tommy Tighe has our money, and is refusing to give it back for daft reasons, e.g. Aiken won't refund them. This is absurd. Because the Gig is cancelled Aiken cannot charge for a single ticket.

DD

Tails142

So... You're just telling them you bought four tickets and expect them to open up the till and hand you out cash even though you have no receipt or other proof to show that you bought the four tickets?

Let me know how you get on, I just remembered I too bought four tickets to this concert and have only just realised that they are also lost... In the post... Will need to get them refunded ...

ianob7

Probably not a good idea to name the individual in question

Mushy

Of course they need the tickets back. What's to stop me walking in there saying refund my tickets that got lost in the post? I'm sure if you had them there'd be no hassle!

RayCon

Echoplex wrote: »

Four posted to Cork. Gig Cancelled. Tix posted back to her. They are Lost in Post, with no chance of recovery.

There's your problem ... the stamped tickets are basically your proof of purchase. Without them - its your loss.

Echoplex

Tommy Tighe fully accepts he sold six tickets to his regular customer. In fact four are the top table which he held specially for her, Seats 1,2,3,4 He was holding them personally, his name is hand written on the back of them. There is no dispute that six tickets were bought and by who. We know the numbers of four of them, and are holding two tickets in Dublin. In case evidence should become necessary.
Sound Cellar sell for non receipted cash a small number of Tickets. In this case say 50. The numbers are all known, and Sound Cellar is physically printed on all of them. When 44 tickets have been refunded, six will be outstanding. Ours. Sarah, Tommy's daughter refuses to state how many are currently outstanding. Why? Cathal said it was 20 last Tuesday. Why not just refund immediately now? If anyone comes in with the known numbered tickets, they are obviously been stolen from An Post.


DD

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

No it will not be our loss. Tommy Tighe fully accepts he sold six tickets to his regular customer. In fact four are the top table. Seats 1234 which he held specially for her. His name is hand written on the back of them. There is no dispute that six tickets were bought and by who. We know the numbers of four of them, and have two tickets in Dublin.
Sound Cellar sell for non receipted cash a small number of Tickets. In this case say 50. The numbers are all known, and Sound Cellar is physically printed on all of them. When 44 tickets have been refunded, six will be outstanding. Ours. Sarah, Tommy's daughter refuses to state how many are currently outstanding. Why? Cathal said it was 20 last Tuesday. Why not just refund immediately now? If anyone comes in with the known numbered tickets, they are obviously been stolen from An Post.

DD

Might pop into Sound Cellar myself and say I got 6 tickets here but got lost in post when returned from friends.

It is your loss. Caveat Emptor, check it up. You probably got the regular ticket master receipt (looks like a ticket). Should've sent them by registered post

TherapyBoy

The problem is that Sound Cellar have to provide tickets for the gig to Aiken Promotions to get their money back on them, so they can refund this to you. If Sound Cellar can't produce tickets, Aiken Promotions won't give a refund.

Although its Sound Cellar who owe you for the cancelled tickets, they are sort of caught in the middle here.

Echoplex

It would be great if you guys read the detail before replying. Ticketmaster have no part in this. Sound Cellar are given tickets which they sell for Cash only, no Receipts. What's that about?
Even if someone finds those tickets in An Post and tries for a Refund at Sound Cellar, they will not be refunded. This is because we have reported our known numbered tickets, which they accept we bought, as Missing or Stolen.
Aiken will not take any money from Sound Cellar. The Gig is cancelled. Why would Aiken want Sound Cellar Tickets back? To him these tickets are valueless be they returned, unsold, lost, or stolen.
DD

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

It would be great if you guys read the detail before replying. Ticketmaster have no part in this. Sound Cellar are given tickets which they sell for Cash only, no Receipts. What's that about?
Even if someone finds those tickets in An Post and tries for a Refund at Sound Cellar, they will not be refunded. This is because we have reported our known numbered tickets, which they accept we bought, as Missing or Stolen.
Aiken will not take any money from Sound Cellar. The Gig is cancelled. Why would Aiken want Sound Cellar Tickets back? To him these tickets are valueless be they returned, unsold, lost, or stolen.
DD

If somebody in An Post finds them and tries for a refund, they could try to refund them. As ye have reported them missing to Sound Cellar, they could notice the ticket numbers and then let ye know somebody tried to refund them, but then theyd be accusing another person of acquiring tickets in an illicit manner.

You have no physical proof of having the tickets, of course you can't get a refund

TherapyBoy

If Sound Cellar sell you one ticket for €50, who gets that €50?

Echoplex

Again, please read the details before posting. There is no dispute as to who bought six known numbered tickets. Two of which we have in hand.

TheAnalyst_

You paid in cash, took no receipt and then sent them back in the post where they went missing. How is it the fault of Sound Cellar?

Echoplex

They only accept Cash for Tickets, and will not give a Receipt. The numbers of the missing tickets and who bought them are known and accepted by Sound Cellar. The hold up is this Peter Aiken red herring.
He does not need a single ticket back as he is not getting or paying any money to Sound Cellar.
They have €490 of our money. They accept we bought six tickets. Nobody else can get a refund. So why the refusal to refund?


DD

Del2005

Echoplex wrote: »

. The hold up is this Peter Aiken red herring.
He does not need a single ticket back as he is not getting or paying any money to Sound Cellar.

DD

Who told you that?

TheAnalyst_

How do you know they don't need the physical tickets for a refund?

TherapyBoy

I've read the details. But the fact remains that even if Sound Cellar were writing out the concert tickets on bits of paper torn out of an old school book they have to pay for them, in some shape or form. If you know these people as well as you seem to there has to be a good reason for them not refunding you on good faith. I can see a situation where Sound Cellar won't give you back your €490 because they will be left out of pocket.
Next time you are sending something worth nearly €500 across the country, at least use registered post.

Echoplex

Contents of Registered Post are not insured and the recipient would not be at home to sign. There is no dispute as to who bought what tickets. They are of no value to anyone else as Sound Cellar will not refund them to any stranger that walks in. We have supplied them a note/poster to warn people off trying. Sound Cellar are absurdly refusing to refund without return of valueless lost tickets for a gig which will not happen.
Obviously Aiken cannot charge Sound Cellar a cent.
There is physical evidence.

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

They only accept Cash for Tickets, and will not give a Receipt. The numbers of the missing tickets and who bought them are known and accepted by Sound Cellar. The hold up is this Peter Aiken red herring.
He does not need a single ticket back as he is not getting or paying any money to Sound Cellar.
They have €490 of our money. They accept we bought six tickets. Nobody else can get a refund. So why the refusal to refund?


DD

Again, you will need the item. You'd be well able to refund the two ye have. They need the tickets to ensure the correct number are refunded, can destroy them then im sure.

Put it this way. If you bought shoes, posted them to a friend to get a refund, got lost in the post but tried to bring them back....receipt and all, do you think the shop would take them back?

TherapyBoy

Will they refund money to your friends for the two tickets that weren't lost in the post?

Dermo

Echoplex wrote: »

. The hold up is this Peter Aiken red herring.
He does not need a single ticket back as he is not getting or paying any money to Sound Cellar.

DD

Del2005 wrote: »

Who told you that?

This!

JustJoe7240

You sound like super reasonable person OP!

Peter File

No ticket = no refund. What part of that do you not understand. It is a condition of cash sales for concerts that in order to get a refund for cancelled or rescheduled shows that you must return the ticket to the outlet that you purchased the tickets from.

Mickolution

Echoplex wrote: »

Ticketmaster have no part in this.
DD

Echoplex wrote: »

Hmmmm...

TheAnalyst_

You could have ensured the 500 euro worth of tickets with an post for 4.50.

You didn't either through tightness of ignorance and thats why you're in the current situation. Also buying physical tickets from a shop 120 miles away is an odd way of doing things in 2018.

minikin

I'm a good mate of Randy Newman's - you can get him on 00 1 212 8419500, tell him I sent ya.
I'm sure he'll be only too delighted to come around and sing at ye for an hour when he hears the story.

Wheety

Echoplex wrote: »

Contents of Registered Post are not insured

Insurance cover included up to €320 - Ireland
Additional insurance is available for items posted within the Republic of Ireland. A charge of €4.50 is applicable for cover up to €1,500 and a charge of €5.50 for cover up to €2,000

ConcertKing

Echoplex wrote: »

Contents of Registered Post are not insured and the recipient would not be at home to sign. There is no dispute as to who bought what tickets. They are of no value to anyone else as Sound Cellar will not refund them to any stranger that walks in. We have supplied them a note/poster to warn people off trying. Sound Cellar are absurdly refusing to refund without return of valueless lost tickets for a gig which will not happen.
Obviously Aiken cannot charge Sound Cellar a cent.
There is physical evidence.

Express post costs 25 cent more than registered post and doesn't need to be signed for.

For future reference.

Echoplex

Please read the posts before making nonsensical and untrue comments. The tickets were bought by a regular customer in the Shop in Dublin. Returning them, signed for post was not an option for reasons already stated. I rang my local Post Office and checked again just now. They have stated again that there is no An Post service which would insure contents.

Aiken will not charge Sound Cellar for the 50 allocated tickets. If he has charged up front, it will be entirely refunded irrespective of whether the tickets are unsold, lost, not returned, etc. etc. Tommy Tighe will pay nothing.

A lot of you here are supporting Sound Cellar keeping our money because we can't produce the missing tickets which are of no resale value and can only be refunded to us. I am quite sure the Small Claims Court will see this more from a regular customer point of view. Or from simply the fact that Sound Cellar took €490 when the tickets were of value, and now refuses to return it when the tickets have become valueless.

DD

hynesie08

Echoplex wrote: »

Aiken will not charge Sound Cellar for the 50 allocated tickets. If he has charged up front, it will be entirely refunded irrespective of whether the tickets are unsold, lost, not returned, etc. etc. Tommy Tighe will pay nothing

DD

You keep saying this, but have no proof. How do you propose SC get the money back from Aiken if they refund you?

daheff

OP I understand you are frustrated with not being able to get your money back, but without a ticket or receipt you are not getting it back.

Time to accept that fact. Getting annoyed at people on boards is not going to help you or get you your money.


Just think about it from SC's point for a moment. Whats to have stopped you selling these on to somebody else who might come looking for a refund in the future?

If SC refunded you and then the ticket holder turns up wanting a refund, they are entitled to the refund (as they physically hold the ticket). The ticket is a bearer instrument....no ticket and you dont get into the show. No show, no ticket and you dont get your money back. It doesnt matter that you tell SC you bought them. they probably know well you did, but they are protecting themselves in case somebody else claims the cash refund.

Amalgam

This thread will work against you if any action takes place as a result of it, either yourself or another party.

Unregistered post. End of story. No one else has to take on the liability of that, except yourself.

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

Please read the posts before making nonsensical comments. The tickets were bought by a regular customer in Dublin. Returning them , signed for post was not an option for reasons already stated.

Aiken will not charge Sound Cellar for the 50 allocated tickets. If he has charged up front, it will be entirely refunded irrespective of whether the tickets are unsold, lost, not returned, etc. etc. Tommy Tighe will pay nothing.

A lot of you here are supporting Sound Cellar keeping our money because we can't produce the missing tickets which are of no resale value and can only be refunded to us. I am quite sure the Small Claims Court will see this more from a regular customer point of view. Or from simply the fact that Sound Cellar took €490 when the tickets were of value, and now refuses to return it when the tickets have become valueless.

DD

They really, really won't! Sound Cellar contract is probably with ticketmaster, they won't refund sound cellar.

You need to hand back the tickets, it is not sound cellars fault that isn't possible. It's not hard to follow. You'll get laughed out if court on it, just cos the tickets are "valueless' to you now, the other companies need the proof.

If they were sent registered, it could be followed with An Post.

Wrongway1985

Echoplex wrote: »

There is physical evidence.

Photographic evidence is what that is, if you had the physical evidence there'd be no need for this thread and you would've had a refund no problem.

rubadub

Echoplex wrote: »

It would be great if you guys read the detail before replying. Ticketmaster have no part in this.

Your ticket clearly has ticketmaster on it. I would take down the image BTW unless you want another one potentially lost.

Did Aiken confirm they sell direct to SC? Did SC confirm they have nothing to do wtih TM? Did Aiken confirm they do NOT need the ticket back as you suggest?

I know TM have requested tickets back for some cancelled gigs I was going to, even if paid for by CC

Echoplex

Again, please read before posting.
Sound Cellar got the tickets directly from Aiken Promotions. The 50 in question are known numbered and have Sound Cellar printed on them.
They are cheaper because they avoid TicketMaster charges.

It would be absurd for Peter Aiken, to try to charge Tommy for tickets for a cancelled gig.



DD

TheAnalyst_

Echoplex wrote: »

Please read the posts before making nonsensical and untrue comments. The tickets were bought by a regular customer in the Shop in Dublin. Returning them, signed for post was not an option for reasons already stated. I rang my local Post Office and checked again just now. They have stated again that there is no An Post service which would insure contents.

Aiken will not charge Sound Cellar for the 50 allocated tickets. If he has charged up front, it will be entirely refunded irrespective of whether the tickets are unsold, lost, not returned, etc. etc. Tommy Tighe will pay nothing.

A lot of you here are supporting Sound Cellar keeping our money because we can't produce the missing tickets which are of no resale value and can only be refunded to us. I am quite sure the Small Claims Court will see this more from a regular customer point of view. Or from simply the fact that Sound Cellar took €490 when the tickets were of value, and now refuses to return it when the tickets have become valueless.

DD

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/MainContent/Business+Customers/Sending+Mail/Security/Registered+Post.htm
This is actually funny.

hynesie08

Echoplex wrote: »

Again, please read before posting.
Sound Cellar got the tickets directly from Aiken Promotions. The 50 in question are known numbered and have Sound Cellar printed on them.

It would be absurd for Peter Aiken, to try to charge Tommy a cent for tickets for a cancelled gig.

DD

And if he's already paid for them??

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

Again, please read before posting.
Sound Cellar got the tickets directly from Aiken Promotions. The 50 in question are known numbered and have Sound Cellar printed on them.

It would be absurd for Peter Aiken, to try to charge Tommy a cent for tickets for a cancelled gig.

DD

If SC can't prove they sold all the tickets, they won't get a penny for those from Aiken.

rubadub

Echoplex wrote: »

Again, please read before posting.
Sound Cellar got the tickets directly from Aiken Promotions.

I did read, it was not 100% clear. The fact you do not answer my other questions makes it all a bit more clear though!

hynesie08

rubadub wrote: »

I did read, it was not 100% clear. The fact you do not answer my other questions makes it all a bit more clear though!

It's still not clear, if SC got tickets "directly" from Aiken, why are they Ticketmaster branded?

Echoplex

If SC can't prove they sold all the tickets, they won't get a penny for those from Aiken.

As the gig is cancelled Aiken will obviously refund ALL of the money irrespective. No show no money.
Peter Aiken is known decent man, he will certainly not do something unfair.

hynesie08

Echoplex wrote: »

All the SC allocated tickets were sold. As the gig is cancelled Aiken will obviously refund ALL of the money irrespective. No show no money.

And how do Aiken know all allocated tickets were sold? Surely they'd need the tickets back for proof??

circular flexing

Echoplex wrote: »

All the SC allocated tickets were sold. As the gig is cancelled Aiken will obviously refund ALL of the money irrespective. No show no money.

How do you know that's the way it works between Aiken/Ticketmaster and SC.

I can't believe you didn't register the tickets. Even if it didn't provide insurance, it would have at least provided guaranteed delivery.

Echoplex

How do you know that's the way it works between Aiken/Ticketmaster and SC.

We have been in touch and in the Shop seven times. Each time a new stalling tactic. None credible.
All we ask is that we are told when all of the 44 Sound Cellar tickets are returned, leaving our six outstanding.
Then refund. Within a reasonable time period. Say 1st April.

I can't believe you didn't register the tickets. Even if it didn't provide insurance, it would have at least provided guaranteed delivery.

Registered Delivery does not provide insurance. But it does require a signature at the receiving end. The lady's place of employment makes signed delivery to a specific employee impossible. Registered is to one person only. The tickets are of no resale value as the shop accepts the identity of the single purchaser.

DD

hynesie08

Hang on, the tickets are €70 each and you had 4 of them? Even in Cork maths that doesn't add up to €490

Mushy

Echoplex wrote: »

As the gig is cancelled Aiken will obviously refund ALL of the money irrespective. No show no money.
Peter Aiken is known decent man, he will certainly not do something unfair.

No they won't. They'll want proof that the tickets were genuinely sold. Lost tickets in the post is the grown up concert goer version of the dog ate my homework