Cut SW payments by 50% to people who don't vaccinate their children?

Huexotzingo

Dr. Ruari Hanley yesterday suggested this as a way of increasing vaccination rates.

I think in principle a good idea but would it be difficult to implement?

What do people think?

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/83555/Internet-To-Blame-For-Anti-Vaccination-Movement

Mossy Monk

What about working parents who refuse to do it?

Huexotzingo

Mossy Monk wrote: »

What about working parents who refuse to do it?

I imagine that would mean cutting their child benefit.

pjohnson

Dock those working 50% aswell and no issues whatsoever with it.

ec18

completely agree with him unless of course there's a medical reason that the child can't be vaccinated. Not just my homeopathy guru doesn't believe in it

VinLieger

Cut payments and make it legal for schools to require proof of vaccines before allowing them attend, obviously allow exceptions for those who can't get the vaccines due to allergies etc, they are the vulnerable ones who need everyone else vaccinated so as to be protected

Wanderer78

Would Probably just increase the workload of the gardai and related sectors

Hector Bellend

VinLieger wrote: »

Cut payments and make it legal for schools to require proof of vaccines before allowing them attend, obviously allow exceptions for those who can't get the vaccines due to allergies etc, they are the vulnerable ones who need everyone else vaccinated so as to be protected

Utter nonsense.

Malayalam

The casual fascism of this place never ceases to amaze me.

VinLieger

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Would Probably just increase the workload of the gardai and related sectors

I dont see how

If we can stop the completely preventable outbreaks of measles that are becoming more and more frequent then its worth it anyway imo.

pjohnson

Malayalam wrote: »

The casual fascism of this place never ceases to amaze me.

Improving health = fascism

VinLieger

Malayalam wrote: »

The casual fascism of this place never ceases to amaze me.

So eliminating polio was fascist? good to know

Hector Bellend

pjohnson wrote: »

Improving health = fascism

Then why force it on people if its such a no brainer

Dr Turk Turkelton

VinLieger wrote: »

Cut payments and make it legal for schools to require proof of vaccines before allowing them attend, obviously allow exceptions for those who can't get the vaccines due to allergies etc, they are the vulnerable ones who need everyone else vaccinated so as to be protected

Do kids not have to show their vaccine certs already before starting school?
But definitely any kid that is not vaccinated should not be in school with normal kids with the exception of allergies.

VinLieger

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Then why force it on people if its such a no brainer

Mr.Micro

The nerve of the guy. Democracy? What next

pjohnson

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Then why force it on people if its such a no brainer

Because people can literally be too stupid for their, and the populations, own good.

steddyeddy

Yes but I've dealt with plenty of these nuts in UCD and very little of them were on welfare. The majority were in normal jobs and some high end jobs. The anti-GMO and vaccine people in Ireland tended to be middle class. Cut child benefit for anyone not vaccinating but also deny the kid access to any school system, private or public.

VinLieger

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes but I've dealt with plenty of these nuts in UCD and very little of them were on welfare. The majority were in normal jobs and some high end jobs. The anti-GMO and vaccine people in Ireland tended to be middle class. Cut child benefit for anyone not vaccinating but also deny the kid access to any school system, private or public.

Indeed it has to be done via the schools its the only way to ensure everyone is getting them and to stop outbreaks happening in schools

nails1

Huexotzingo wrote: »

Dr. Ruari Hanley yesterday suggested this as a way of increasing vaccination rates.

I think in principle a good idea but would it be difficult to implement?

What do people think?

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/83555/Internet-To-Blame-For-Anti-Vaccination-Movement

Hint: it’s no longer the ‘in’ thing to poke at people on welfare, that’s very 5 years ago. Also not cool anymore to call people snowflakes or say ‘it’s a real Irish thing to...’ Again this would get you brownie points in 2013 but not 2018.

steddyeddy

VinLieger wrote: »

Indeed it has to be done via the schools its the only way to ensure everyone is getting them and to stop outbreaks happening in schools

What comes into it more with the middle class idiots is "rights". I have the right not to vaccinate my kid blah blah blah.

FutureGuy

Well we have a measles outbreak here in Limerick centered in two areas of the city. Ballinacurra Weston and Carew Park.

2018, ladies and gentlemen.

The_Valeyard

pjohnson wrote: »

Because people can literally be too stupid for their, and the populations, own good.

Who decides who are the intellectual elite to make decisions for the stupid massess?

WoollyRedHat

Mossy Monk wrote: »

What about working parents who refuse to do it?

Send them to Blasket Island.

Clair4

Maybe dr ruari hanley should go &**** himself along with the rest of you fascists ... Small country full of dictators here..

VinLieger

Clair4 wrote: »

Maybe dr ruari hanley should go &**** himself along with the rest of you fascists ... Small country full of dictators here..

So no facts or information to backup your ignorant opinion just blanket insults, how progressive of you

BPKS

FutureGuy wrote: »

Well we have a measles outbreak here in Limerick centered in two areas of the city. Ballinacurra Weston and Carew Park.

2018, ladies and gentlemen.

Vaccination appointments must have been for before 1pm.

ec18

Clair4 wrote: »

Maybe dr ruari hanley should go &**** himself along with the rest of you fascists ... Small country full of dictators here..

are you sure you know what a fascist is?

The hubris of the anti vaccine movement is astounding. Believing that they know better than decades of medical research and evidence.

There's a reason diseases such as small pox were essentially eradicated, it's not because someone on the internet shared an infographic

Heinzer

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

VinLieger wrote: »

Cut payments and make it legal for schools to require proof of vaccines before allowing them attend, obviously allow exceptions for those who can't get the vaccines due to allergies etc, they are the vulnerable ones who need everyone else vaccinated so as to be protected

Do kids not have to show their vaccine certs already before starting school?
But definitely any kid that is not vaccinated should not be in school with normal kids with the exception of allergies.

Just a couple of questions. If a child can't get a vaccine on medical grounds are they still considered a "normal kid" or is there another label for them
What are the kids called whose parents choose not to get them vaccinated? The "Diseased kids" 
Honestly just wondering

weldoninhio

The extra fees for the likes of Ryanair are generally known as "idiot tax", as in if you are not an idiot you don't get charged them. Why not bring in an actual idiot tax for people refusing to vaccinate their children for non-medical reasons??

Their children could all be put in separate schools where they learn such things as the "earth is flat and other things you can learn from the internet".

TheChizler

Cutting welfare payments seems to be the Boardsd go-to punishment for any offence against society...

Would you not be concerned that cutting payments would negatively affect the health of children who are depending on those payments for basic nutrition/living standards? Causing them to be hit with the double whammy of idiot parents not vaccinating and reduced government support.

ec18

Heinzer wrote: »

Just a couple of questions. If a child can't get a vaccine on medical grounds are they still considered a "normal kid" or is there another label for them
What are the kids called whose parents choose not to get them vaccinated? The "Diseased kids" 
Honestly just wondering

The kids who can't get vaccinated on medical grounds are the ones that need everyone that can to get vaccinated so that they benefit from Herd Immunity.

Of course they are all normal kids, just someone will be at more of a risk of spreading disease and having a affect on those that are unable to get vaccinated

weldoninhio

Heinzer wrote: »

Just a couple of questions. If a child can't get a vaccine on medical grounds are they still considered a "normal kid" or is there another label for them
What are the kids called whose parents choose not to get them vaccinated? The "Diseased kids" 
Honestly just wondering

1. Yes, they are normal kids.

2. The kids with idiot parents.

ec18

TheChizler wrote: »

Cutting welfare payments seems to be the Boardsd go-to punishment for any offence against society...

Would you not be concerned that cutting payments would negatively affect the health of children who are depending on those payments for basic nutrition/living standards? Causing them to be hit with the double whammy of idiot parents not vaccinating and reduced government support.

Get them vaccinated then

steddyeddy

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Who decides who are the intellectual elite to make decisions for the stupid massess?

Speaking as a scientist I say that no one should defer completely to authority. Always examine the body of evidence. For example it was a clinician who started the anti-vaccine movement and a medical journal that helped spread it.

TheChizler

ec18 wrote: »

Get them vaccinated then

Again, just punishing the children for the parents' idiocy.

Virgil°

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Who decides who are the intellectual elite to make decisions for the stupid massess?

Thankfully the "stupid" are just an inconvenient minority otherwise we'd have kids dying in droves to easily preventable diseases.

But to answer: I guess the school administration board under the supervision of a medical professional.

Heinzer wrote:

If a child can't get a vaccine on medical grounds are they still considered a "normal kid" or is there another label for them
What are the kids called whose parents choose not to get them vaccinated? The "Diseased kids"

Ah so the best argument on hand is to pick up on the word "normal" (where the poster very obviously meant a child with normal immune system?)
Probably done here then aren't we?

Heinzer wrote:

Honestly just wondering

Of course you were

ec18

TheChizler wrote: »

Again, just punishing the children for the parents' idiocy.

getting children vaccinated is punishing them?

LirW

TheChizler wrote: »

Again, just punishing the children for the parents' idiocy.

Anti-vaxxers are incredibly unapproachable. I've never seen it that a single one of them changed their mind because they've seen evidence.
There is an unreal load of evidence out there that proves the benefit of vaccinations over their down-sides. For example measles can have fatal side effects on infants and the chance they'll suffer from major complications later on are quite high.

That's what I don't understand.
I'm all in favour of checking on the vaccine status in state schools (exception you can't get vaccinated). There's a reason why people working in medical fields, care or with animals need to have certain vaccines.

In the past I would definitely have been pro vaccinations but only because it was just the done thing and if you dare voice a different opinion well God help you. I don't have children but if in the future I do I shall make my own mind up regarding vaccines.

Clair4

ec18 wrote: »

are you sure you know what a fascist is?

The hubris of the anti vaccine movement is astounding. Believing that they know better than decades of medical research and evidence.

There's a reason diseases such as small pox were essentially eradicated, it's not because someone on the internet shared an infographic[/qu

Did i say i was against vaccines. ? Im angry at the way people can insult others and dictate there ways upon people my kids are all vaccinated but i wouldnt dare look down my nose at a child or parent who choose not too .

o1s1n

Clair4 wrote: »

Maybe dr ruari hanley should go &**** himself along with the rest of you fascists ... Small country full of dictators here..

Imagine that, Dr Ruairi Hanley trying to protect the populace from the idiocy of a small few.

If you're an anti vaxer please just watch this. It's absolutely beyond idiotic not to have your children vaccinated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

VinLieger

Clair4 wrote: »

Im angry at the way people can insult others and dictate there ways upon people my kids are all vaccinated but i wouldnt dare look down my nose at a child or parent who choose not too .

So a parent who selfishly endangers the health of your child and others is something your 100% okay with?

LirW

Clair4 wrote: »

ec18 wrote: »

are you sure you know what a fascist is?

The hubris of the anti vaccine movement is astounding. Believing that they know better than decades of medical research and evidence.

There's a reason diseases such as small pox were essentially eradicated, it's not because someone on the internet shared an infographic[/qu

Did i say i was against vaccines. ? Im angry at the way people can insult others and dictate there ways upon people my kids are all vaccinated but i wouldnt dare look down my nose at a child or parent who choose not too .

I don't fully agree with it. There are vaccinations for highly contagious diseases like measles.
I got the message a few months ago that one of my neighbours kids was suspected to have measles. They play with my son every day. I have a baby at home that's under a year old and I swear I was sh1tting my pants that it wasn't measles and that the tiny one wouldn't get a battering.
The own choice ends where it could seriously affect others that are too weak/young/old for certain vaccines.

Jelle1880

Clair4 wrote: »

ec18 wrote: »

are you sure you know what a fascist is?

The hubris of the anti vaccine movement is astounding. Believing that they know better than decades of medical research and evidence.

There's a reason diseases such as small pox were essentially eradicated, it's not because someone on the internet shared an infographic

Did i say i was against vaccines. ? Im angry at the way people can insult others and dictate there ways upon people my kids are all vaccinated but i wouldnt dare look down my nose at a child or parent who choose not too .

You wouldn't criticise people for deliberately endangering their children ?

There's also a thing called herd immunity. Having a few unvaccinated kids in a class or school impacts those who have been vaccinated, as it brings their immunity down too.

Brian?

VinLieger wrote: »

So eliminating polio was fascist? good to know

You can’t goosestep with polio.

Heinzer

Virgil° wrote: »

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Who decides who are the intellectual elite to make decisions for the stupid massess?

Thankfully the "stupid" are just an inconvenient minority otherwise we'd have kids dying in droves to easily preventable diseases.

But to answer: I guess the school administration board under the supervision of a medical professional.

Heinzer wrote:

If a child can't get a vaccine on medical grounds are they still considered a "normal kid" or is there another label for them
What are the kids called whose parents choose not to get them vaccinated? The "Diseased kids"

Ah so the best argument on hand is to pick up on the word "normal" (where the poster very obviously meant a child with normal immune system?)
Probably done here then aren't we?

Heinzer wrote:

Honestly just wondering

Of course you were

If you actually took the time to read my post you would see that I didn't argue for or against vaccination. My query related to the labeling of children as the poster did not make it clear. I want to be sure that my "normal kids" don't come in contact with any "diseased kids"

andekwarhola

I think financial punishments, especially at the poor, will just end up hurting children more.

That said, I'm in favour of coercion. Vaccines are one of few situations where its becoming harder and harder to balance your respect for people's 'rights' with their wilful idiocy re: societal responsibilities.

Rory28

Door to door Vac Squads. Similar to death squads but the opposite. I will start a petition tomorrow.

Grayson

TheChizler wrote: »

Again, just punishing the children for the parents' idiocy.

Yep. there's no easy answer to this. The cut welfare solution is popular here but as has been said, that just punishes children even more.
We could ban children who aren't vaccinated from schools. that would protect the other children from possible infection but it's still punishing the children who weren't vaccinated.

Maybe make the parents watch the autopsy of a child who died from a preventable disease?

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the past I would definitely have been pro vaccinations but only because it was just the done thing and if you dare voice a different opinion well God help you. I don't have children but if in the future I do I shall make my own mind up regarding vaccines.

Not if they're near other children you won't. I don't see how noble it is to choose to put your child in increased danger either. Should I be able to choose if my child wears a seatbelt?