Derelict House - Expression of Interest

adriaaaan · 12-02-2018 11:16pm #1

Hi to you all I am a really long time lurker, but I am looking now for some advice from you seasoned property veterans. I am looking for an investment property in Dublin that requires renovation. I have capital and I can tackle renovations myself, assume I dont need to be talked out of the decision to doer-upper. I spotted a derelict house (two storey with walls only) on large grounds in a decent part of Kildare. (Rather not say where). I found name and address of current owner from landdirect.ie folio. I found the owners current place of work online. (Don't judge me). Based on google streetview theres been no construction or movement in the property for ~ 5 years. Property changed hands around the same time.
I am looking for advice on next steps and I am willing to keep this thread going as advice for others who have asked about derelict sites in this forum to see how it plays it.
Should I:
a) Write letter to address on folio with expression of interest and ask for a meeting?
b) Door knock to address on folio ask for a meeting?
c) Leave letter at derelict site? / Ask around to different houses in the area about it?
d) Door knock at place of business?
e) Online search to attempt to find phone number/email, followed by call with expression of interest?
f) Get solicitor involved
g) Other???

Any advice greatly received

ted1 · 13-02-2018 11:03am

You are looking for a place in Dublin , but found a place in Kildare. Can’t see how that works.

Here’s one in Dublin https://m.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/verona-seafield-road-killiney-county-dublin/4153468

ted1 · 13-02-2018 11:04am

You are looking for a place in Dublin , but found a place in Kildare. Can’t see how that works.

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 11:12am

ted1 wrote: »

You are looking for a place in Dublin , but found a place in Kildare. Can’t see how that works.

Very good. Thanks for that. clarification: Dublin area and the environs.

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the_syco · 13-02-2018 6:11pm

adriaaaan wrote: »

I spotted a derelict house (two storey with walls only) on large grounds in a decent part of Kildare. (Rather not say where). I found name and address of current owner from landdirect.ie folio. I found the owners current place of work online. (Don't judge me). Based on google streetview theres been no construction or movement in the property for ~ 5 years. Property changed hands around the same time.

Sounds like someone bought a lemon, and found out too late how much it'd cost to rectify, I'm guessing?

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 6:25pm

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like someone bought a lemon, and found out too late how much it'd cost to rectify, I'm guessing?

No, not the case at all. My query is 100 % accurate. To be honest I need a steer on the strategy of writing to a current property owner. In the US it is common for expression of interest letters but I feel like in Ireland the owner may just think it's strange and tell me to F off. Anyone any experience? Im taking it that I have nothing to lose and might as well give it a shot and contact the owner

the_syco · 13-02-2018 6:46pm

adriaaaan wrote: »

No, not the case at all. My query is 100 % accurate.

You may have misunderstood me; the person you're trying to buy from is the one with the lemon. If they seem overly eager to give you the property, have a few people take a look at the house, the deeds, and soil samples.

There is also the possibility that the property may have pyrite, and this could be why the build was stopped, as they didn't have enough money to demolish and start over.

adriaaaan wrote: »

I feel like in Ireland the owner may just think it's strange and tell me to F off. Anyone any experience? Im taking it that I have nothing to lose and might as well give it a shot and contact the owner

Are you sure the current owner still owns it, and not the bank?

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 6:57pm

the_syco wrote: »

You may have misunderstood me; the person you're trying to buy from is the one with the lemon. If they seem overly eager to give you the property, have a few people take a look at the house, the deeds, and soil samples.

There is also the possibility that the property may have pyrite, and this could be why the build was stopped, as they didn't have enough money to demolish and start over.

Are you sure the current owner still owns it, and not the bank?

Hey thanks for the advice. I am not sure who owns it. The name and address I have is from the folio from the landdirect website. (5 euro fee). It changed hands in 2013 so it's relatively recent. Which may confirm your theory of a stalled build. Is there any other way to check ownership that you know of? It not in thoms directory .

CeilingFly · 13-02-2018 7:02pm

Find out the estate agent that sold it and call them - if no luck, then write a letter saying you'd be interested in purchasing it or joining in as a joint venture.

If purchased 5 years ago, they got it for peanuts.

Also check the planning section of kildare cc in case there has been planning sought.

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 7:04pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Find out the estate agent that sold it and call them - if no luck, then write a letter saying you'd be interested in purchasing it or joining in as a joint venture.

If purchased 5 years ago, they got it for peanuts.

Also check the planning section of kildare cc in case there has been planning sought.

Super advice. Hadn't really considered the estate agents as I thought they would wash their hands of it when the sale closed.

Sleeper12 · 13-02-2018 7:37pm

Knock on my door uninvited and we'll never do business. Send me a letter, email or phone me. If you get a reply then I might be interested.

Property left untouched can be for a lot of reasons. I might be getting separated or divorced. Could be a death in the family. Probate, liquidation etc.

Letter or phone call is OK. Cold calling on my door is not

Staplor · 13-02-2018 7:44pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Knock on my door uninvited and we'll never do business. Send me a letter, email or phone me. If you get a reply then I might be interested.

Property left untouched can be for a lot of reasons. I might be getting separated or divorced. Could be a death in the family. Probate, liquidation etc.

Letter or phone call is OK. Cold calling on my door is not

OP mentions the US, might be worthwhile watching The Field. Property is a strange thing in the Irish mind.

pilly · 13-02-2018 7:47pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

Knock on my door uninvited and we'll never do business. Send me a letter, email or phone me. If you get a reply then I might be interested.

Yeah I second this, every time I'm in Dublin there's a fella who knocks at the door asking me if I'm interested in selling. Drives me mad.

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 8:49pm

Interesting... you must have a nice place or location. I don't think I've heard of anybody else in Dublin who is consistently bothered by this

pilly · 13-02-2018 8:53pm

adriaaaan wrote:

Interesting... you must have a nice place or location. I don't think I've heard of anybody else in Dublin who is consistently bothered by this

It's a 4 bedroom in an area where houses rarely go for sale but I don't know what his particular interest is. Another 4 bedroom did sell 18 months ago and he didn't buy that one (albeit it was in bad condition).

I get the feeling he might think I'm desperate to sell and he'll get it cheap because he's first in.

Just know that it pisses me off either way.

looksee · 13-02-2018 9:12pm

As the others say, don't knock on door or phone. Approach this as obliquely as possible. Go into the nearest estate agent and ask do they know anything about it. Even if they didn't sell it the first time they will be clued up on the story. Keep it casual and give the impression its just one place among many that you might be interested in. If there is a local shop or pub try the same approach there.

If you do end up contacting the address on Land direct it might be a good idea to go through a solicitor, just to give more clout to your request and maintain some distance.

Have you looked on Daft.ie?

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 9:29pm

pilly wrote: »

It's a 4 bedroom in an area where houses rarely go for sale but I don't know what his particular interest is. Another 4 bedroom did sell 18 months ago and he didn't buy that one (albeit it was in bad condition).

I get the feeling he might think I'm desperate to sell and he'll get it cheap because he's first in.

Just know that it pisses me off either way.

If its the same person that is bothering you, thats grounds for a restraining order! I dont intend that level of harassment in my case, just a polite letter with an expression of interest and a request to text me if not interested so that I can give up the chase.
Thanks for the advice

adriaaaan · 13-02-2018 9:35pm

looksee wrote: »

As the others say, don't knock on door or phone. Approach this as obliquely as possible. Go into the nearest estate agent and ask do they know anything about it. Even if they didn't sell it the first time they will be clued up on the story. Keep it casual and give the impression its just one place among many that you might be interested in. If there is a local shop or pub try the same approach there.

If you do end up contacting the address on Land direct it might be a good idea to go through a solicitor, just to give more clout to your request and maintain some distance.

Have you looked on Daft.ie?

So with a bit more digging today...property hasn't been on sale in recent times. Doesn't look like there is planning application on it on Kildare CoCo website. It changed hands at the death of the previous owner (RIP.ie search).
All things considered I think it is definitely worth a speculative inquiry as the site is lying idle with no planning movement and no recent sales history.

the_syco · 14-02-2018 4:37am

adriaaaan wrote: »

It changed hands at the death of the previous owner (RIP.ie search).

Could it be a "nest egg" for the current owner, that they intend to cash in on when they retire?

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adriaaaan · 14-02-2018 11:37am

Could be a nestegg but it wouldn't be what you would call a retirement home. It needs a lot of work and investment. Some people have no interest in taking that level of work on themselves.

Locked up in probate? Can you expand on this ? How long would it typically take to wash out of that process, greater than 5 years? I'm a complete novice on it

....... · 14-02-2018 11:46am

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adriaaaan · 14-02-2018 11:53am

....... wrote: »

Its very difficult to gauge.

If there were arguments between beneficiaries about who could claim what from the estate then it could drag on a long time.

Equally, if someone died intestate and there were no relatives looking to inherit the estate, then I dont know what happens to it. The state presumably inherit it but god knows how long it takes them to do anything with it.

It may have been taken over by the council and just be sitting on their books. I know a family whose grandmother sold her house to the council many years ago and today the house is still sitting there boarded up and the surrounding land derelict and overgrown.

Its not very clear to me what the status of derelict sites are in Ireland or how you can contact the owners (or relevant state body if there are no private owners).

Perhaps someone in the planning dept of the local CoCo might have some ideas on how to locate the current person or body responsible for the site?

Other than that, local knowledge, ask in the local pub. ask neighbours - they might know who is responsible for it.

Excellent I will do that . Thanks so much for taking the time to respond

the_syco · 14-02-2018 2:14pm

....... wrote: »

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The council will have a budget, and often has to spend it on fixing apartments.

adriaaaan wrote: »

Could be a nestegg but it wouldn't be what you would call a retirement home.

If it's in Leixlip/Maynooth/Celbridge area, the land the house is on could be worth a bit if sold at the right time.

=-=

I assume it's not on http://www.daft.ie/kildare/sites-for-sale/ ?

adriaaaan · 14-02-2018 2:43pm

the_syco wrote: »

If it's in Leixlip/Maynooth/Celbridge area, the land the house is on could be worth a bit if sold at the right time.

=-=

I assume it's not on http://www.daft.ie/kildare/sites-for-sale/ ?

No it's not for sale and never has been, based on an internet search and the dereliction of the site. This is a purely speculative query to the registered owner

....... · 14-02-2018 3:53pm

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the_syco · 14-02-2018 4:14pm

....... wrote: »

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Politics; selling a house when there's a housing crisis (no matter how bad the house is now), may look bad, so they hold onto it. Heck, after 35 years, I wonder if they know that they still have it!

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looksee · 14-02-2018 5:26pm

One place I lived there was an eyesore of a place in the middle of the village. Apparently the owner had emigrated and couldn't be found. In the end the council took it over some way, but it took a long time and a lot of pressure from the village.

Del2005 · 15-02-2018 1:02am

Have you checked is it a National Monument? If it's been left derelict close to Dublin through a boom and bust and now a 2nd boom then there's a reason.

davo10 · 15-02-2018 7:25am

Op. Every situation with different owners is unique, some might not appreciate a knock on the door, some might, only one way to find out. If you are speculating on property, you are better off knowing quickly so that you can move on to other projects if the response is negative.

You have a couple of problems though. Firstly, the owner will know that in that location, the property is valuable and most likely would achieve a higher price if placed on the market. You will not get it cheap so you will have to make a really good offer. Secondly, if the owner doesn't need to sell, the offer has to be one they "cant refuse", again that means a higher offer. Thirdly, if it was inherited, apart from the tax associated with the inheritance, the current owner didn't pay a lot for a valuable asset so can possibly afford to let it sit there for years, with the price appreciating, so probably no incentive to sell unless a good offer comes in.

From my own experience, I have door knocked site owners twice and been door knocked myself once. One site owner was very pleasant, a bachelor, he brought me in for tea, thanked me for calling but said he was leaving site to his only nephew. The second was a lit taken aback by the door knock but he said he'd think about it. I am now living in a house on that site, there was a bit of haggling but I knew I was going to have to pay the going rate plus a little more to stop the site going to market. I paid it, everyone happy. Now, the site remained idle for a few years after I bought it, I got planning and then built it myself over a couple of years. During that time a guy came to my place of business and make a very good offer for the site, quite a bit more than I paid because it now had planning. If I was a speculator I probably would have accepted it but as the house was for my own family, I thanked him and explained the situation.

In my view, grown ups don't get upset by expressions of interest, so go see the owner. if I had the property on the market with an EA and someone door knocked me, I'd tell them to go away and talk to the EA, that is what I am paying them for.

Op, don't go in expecting to get a bargain, that just won't fly in the current property market. What you are looking for is to buy the property now, before it is advertised for sale. That means you are going to have to make a very appealing offer. Good luck.

Derelict House - Expression of Interest

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