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The myth of 'the happy hooker' is dispelled

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    #2
    Dr_serious2
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Dr_serious2


    One person's experience is hardly proof that it is a myth.

    It is unfortunate what she went through but prostitution should be legal. What purpose does it serve to make it illegal for two adults to have sex for money?


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    #3
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Maybe you should speak to this happy hooker, OP. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737


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    #4
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I read that this morning earlier and thought it very sad.

    It was a lot more than one persons experience.

    The ad with the dancers was very very powerful..

    Another horrible story in the news was this one.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5540224/romania-pimp-brothers-metal-balls-penis-rape-more-painful/


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    #5
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Happy memories reading Xaveria Hollanders book ;)


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    #6
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Well she was trafficked so I imagine being raped daily wouldn't make her happy. Maybe compare it to the experience of a woman or man who has chosen to do the job of their own free will.....


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    #7
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Sure all nail technician's are trafficked sure if we are looking at one story

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/02/trio-trafficked-girls-work-nail-bars-jailed-slavery-laws-uk


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    #8
    Flower124
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Flower124


    Dr_serious2 wrote: »
    One person's experience is hardly proof that it is a myth.

    It is unfortunate what she went through but prostitution should be legal. What purpose does it serve to make it illegal for two adults to have sex for money?

    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.


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    #9
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,016 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    I'd say there's at least one happy hooker in Ireland after the win yesterday...


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    #10
    Flower124
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Flower124


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Well she was trafficked so I imagine being raped daily wouldn't make her happy. Maybe compare it to the experience of a woman or man who has chosen to do the job of their own free will.....
    The point is that many of these people are trafficked and are working against their will.


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    #11
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,675 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Flower124 wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5376077/Amsterdam-call-time-myth-happy-hooker.html

    A female prostitute in Amsterdam speaks out about being trafficked, being held against her will, forced to have sex with out condoms for 12 hours a day, and speaks of people urinating on her and hurtig her and beating her. Very sad.


    I don't think the idea of the happy hooker was ever a myth in the conventional sense of the word, so there was never really anything to dispel, and nothing has been dispelled by one persons account of their experiences, whether they were either positive or negative. It's long been widely acknowledged that the sex industry is rife with misery and exploitation, but it is also a fact that there are people who exist who will never acknowledge that perspective of the industry exists, because it ruins the fantasy. That's not to mention the number of people who simply don't care that the sex industry is rife with misery and exploitation, for some people that's exactly what they get off on, is having that power over other people to exploit them.


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    #12
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    Why are you surprised? There will always be people who exploit others for profit. How does making it illegal for everyone help people like that lady? The exploitation will still exist.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    Working as a postman is legal. Should we make it illegal if a story comes out today that a postman was kidnapped while delivering the mail?


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    #14
    Jack Kanoff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Jack Kanoff


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    Nothing to do with prostitution...she's a sex slave... very, very different things.


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    #15
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    So if the law as it stands was enforced she would have been saved.
    If prostitution was illegal how would that have helped this woman?
    How many otherwise law abiding people would be criminalised for having fully concentual sex if prostitution was made illegal?


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    #16
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    Then the laws need to target traffickers and pimps. Life sentences for those who enslave and torture others for money. Make pimping of others illegal. Seize all their assets and put it towards healthcare for sex workers.

    Prostitution will unfortunately always exist. But the way forward is to let the workers be independent and self employed with licences, health checks, security, and maybe even a union with standardised pricing.


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    #17
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,295 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Flower124 wrote: »
    She was working in a country where prostitution was legal. She was held illegally and was working against her will. So making prostitution legal did not work for her.

    Women are trafficked into Britain and Ireland as well, both countries were prostitution isn't legal.

    Cases like this are terrible but overall I think the system in Holland works where most of the sex workers are operating in a safe legal environment.


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    #18
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    I seriously wonder what would "happy hooker" people say upon hearing that their daughter is gearing up for the career? Interning as a sugar baby? Sure if it's such a happy profession.

    Prostitution can be just a job if legalised but the "happy hooker" myth requires some serious blinkers as to what it actually entails.


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    #19
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Education and respect is also key for the next generation.

    Different conversation I know but as my sister recently had to have had an open conversation with her 2 daughters as to why they used to go Greyhound racing with Granda and we don’t go any more.

    Maybe teach children as they grow up to respect the other sex, it’s not ok for gangs of lads to go to Amsterdam and piss on a Prozzie for a laugh.

    I believe we don’t realize now, but we will look back in time and see these years as a massive era of change for women.

    The fall of Harvey Weinstein is the trigger point for this and is a historic milestone.


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    #20
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Flower124 wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5376077/Amsterdam-call-time-myth-happy-hooker.html

    A female prostitute in Amsterdam speaks out about being trafficked, being held against her will, forced to have sex with out condoms for 12 hours a day, and speaks of people urinating on her and hurtig her and beating her. Very sad.

    Banning prostitution will not stop trafficking cases such as this happening.

    The Happy Hooker myth is a construct of Hollywood anyway.


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    #21
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Why don't people focus on the problems at home?
    We have plenty trafficking and sham marriages here, no need to read about Dutch? prostitutes in English newspapers.


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    #22
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    The Happy Hooker was written by Xaviera Hollander in the early 70s and was very much her life and no one elses. It's not a term that should be applied to the sex for sale business.


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    #23
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Didn't think anyone took the Daily Mail seriously.


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    #24
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,295 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    At least in Holland they made it legal because they know banning something won't put a stop to it.

    People have always been willing to pay for sex and will continue to do so long after all of us here are dead and gone.

    If it's legal people will feel safe working in the sex industry and if they experience problems they can go to the police.
    It's worth mentioning that Romanians are doing the same thing to girls here where it's not legal.

    Here in Ireland we just pretend things like prostitution don't exist and refuse to even debate the issue.


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    #25
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    At least in Holland they made it legal because they know banning something won't put a stop to it.

    People have always been willing to pay for sex and will continue to do so long after all of us here are dead and gone.

    If it's legal people will feel safe working in the sex industry and if they experience problems they can go to the police.
    It's worth mentioning that Romanians are doing the same thing to girls here where it's not legal.

    Here in Ireland we just pretend things like prostitution don't exist and refuse to even debate the issue.

    Exactly.

    And anyway, who are we to be telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies?

    If they want to enter the job, no matter what we think of it, we should make it as safe as possible for them.


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    #26
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    biko wrote: »
    Why don't people focus on the problems at home?
    We have plenty trafficking and sham marriages here, no need to read about Dutch? prostitutes in English newspapers.

    So no Irish people go to Amsterdam and visit prostitutes? So as a result could be supporting this.

    Very small minded parochial attitude.

    And if you actually read the article before you commented you will know she wasn’t Dutch.


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    #27
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Neyite wrote: »
    standardised pricing.

    Can we standardise the price of houses and cars too? There are some prostitutes you couldn't pay me enough to go near and others I'd happy give up my life savings for a relationship with.


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    #28
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Women are trafficked into Britain and Ireland as well, both countries were prostitution isn't legal.

    Cases like this are terrible but overall I think the system in Holland works where most of the sex workers are operating in a safe legal environment.


    I think the point of the article is though that it’s not a safe legal environment. Legal yes, safe, no. And what would be the definition of “most”

    By making it legal, it’s allowed the traffickers and pimps operate under a cloak of legality. But it hasn’t made it safe and protected the vulnerable like those in the article. It’s protected the punters, not the workers.

    Agree that there needs to be stronger sentences for traffickers.

    The article references the increasing number of trafficking cases coming up before the Dutch Courts so much so that they are finding it necessary to look into and possibly revise the legislation. They are doing this not because it’s working, but because clearly it’s not.


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    #29
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,675 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Exactly.

    And anyway, who are we to be telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies?

    If they want to enter the job, no matter what we think of it, we should make it as safe as possible for them.


    Making prostitution legal hasn't had the intended effect of making prostitution safer either for the women or the men who work in the industry. It's not a question of telling people what they can and can't do with their own bodies, people are free to do whatever they want with their own bodies, and other people are free to campaign for an end to prostitution by means of not allowing for it to be facilitated by the State. If people still want to do whatever they want to do with their own bodies, knowing that the State does not facilitate prostitution, then that's their responsibility, and not something that the rest of society can be held responsible for.


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    #30
    Obi_Wan_Kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Obi_Wan_Kenobi


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Maybe you should speak to this happy hooker, OP. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

    Exactly, doubt she will though - it won't fit her narrative.


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    #31
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    And anyway, who are we to be telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies?

    Odd how so many proponents of 'Repeal the 8th' on the Left are the very same folks who'd shout down, dismiss & label as gullible victims, women who freely choose sex work as something that suits them for however long they so wish.

    Seems you can only be a strong & independent woman, once it fits in nicely with prevailing third-wave orthodoxy.


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