A genuine question about Noah and the flood

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

I ask this as an Atheist but would like to get some Christian answers on this. I am trying to be as respectful as possible.

God apparently send a flood to destroy all wickedness, this included all humans and animals.

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Did God permit incest once again because it was only Noah and his family on the ark at the time?

Why didn't God in His infinite wisdom send Jesus earlier to save people from their own sin (that God gave them in the first place)?

J C

Could I ask the mods to please move this thread to the mega-thread on Creationism and Prophecy.

Thanks.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

God didn't give them sin, satan did. The great battle that took place in Heaven saw Lucifer and a third of the angels fall from Heaven to Earth. Their descendents are with us to this day.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

No, by a creative act of God, the human race was renewed.
Well, not renewed, but given another chance.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

All humans and animals were wiped out by God. Not the life in the sea. Noah took each pair of creatures into the Ark. We should not understand this in a literal way, but it is the only way our limited intellect can understand what happened.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

God didn't give them sin, satan did.

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

No, by a creative act of God, the human race was renewed.

But God gave us free will and in His infinite wisdom, He could have known that some of us (or all of us) would sin and face eternal damnation. Surely a loving God would not remove that possibility and remove our free will?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

But God gave us free will and in His infinite wisdom, He could have known that some of us (or all of us) would sin and face eternal damnation. Surely a loving God would not remove that possibility and remove our free will?

But we have free will. You decide whether you are with or against God. Only Lucifer and his acolytes have no further choice, because they made their choice when they rebelled against God.

Sleeper12

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Man was evil not the animals. Sending the flood would wipe out all land creatures so noah built the ark and took two of each animal. It was evil men that God wanted to wipe out. The fish were no more or less evil than the animals.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

The animals on land were what we might call today collateral damage. He could not send the flood without wiping out the land animals. Yet He saved man, represented by Noah and his wife, and He saved the animals by rescuing each species.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

But we have free will. You decide whether you are with or against God. Only Lucifer and his acolytes have no further choice, because they made their choice when they rebelled against God.

Why would God give us free will in the knowledge that some people would go against His rules? it's like giving a child colourful dishwasher tablets then standing idly by when the child does what it does (eats the things!).

beefburrito

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

I ask this as an Atheist but would like to get some Christian answers on this. I am trying to be as respectful as possible.

God apparently send a flood to destroy all wickedness, this included all humans and animals.

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Did God permit incest once again because it was only Noah and his family on the ark at the time?

Why didn't God in His infinite wisdom send Jesus earlier to save people from their own sin (that God gave them in the first place)?

What a ridiculous post,more like trying to be rather clever than serious.

For the love of god "face palm"

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

beefburrito wrote: »

What a ridiculous post,more like trying to be rather clever than serious.

For the love of god "face palm"

I just want more understanding of the topic.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Why would God give us free will in the knowledge that some people would go against His rules? it's like giving a child colourful dishwasher tablets then standing idly by when the child does that it does (eats the things!).

God gives you free will. You either work for the Kingdom or you don't. I have already stated that God in His infinite mercy, rescues us all from sin, except those who roam the world seeking whom they may devour. The devil cannot devour you unless you make a conscious decision to side with him.

beefburrito

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

I just want more understanding of the topic.

I'm an agnostic and can read through your op.

I was like you before and all trying to be funny,but it wasn't a nice way to be.

But I wish you luck with your research

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

The only ones who are not saved are those who cannot be saved. If they spent a thousand years in hell and were released, they would still hate God. Their hatred of God is eternal, so their punishment is eternal.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

God gives you free will. You either work for the Kingdom or you don't. I have already stated that God in His infinite mercy, rescues us all from sin, except those who roam the world seeking whom they may devour. The devil cannot devour you unless you make a conscious decision to side with him.

You haven't answered my question though. If God is so much more intelligent that us, then why does he give us even the slightest opportunity to reject Him? Why can't a loving God grant us all salvation in the first place?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

beefburrito wrote:

For the love of god "face palm"

beefburrito wrote:

What a ridiculous post,more like trying to be rather clever than serious.

Why do you mock this poster? He or she is asking a genuine question.

J C

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

You haven't answered my question though. If God is so much more intelligent that us, then why does he give us even the slightest opportunity to reject Him? Why can't a loving God grant us all salvation in the first place?

He won't force it on us ... but all we have to do is ask for it.
... sounds easy ... but believe you me I have known thousands of people who absolutely refuse to ask to be Saved.

... their pride gets in the way.

J C

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

No, by a creative act of God, the human race was renewed.
Well, not renewed, but given another chance.

... given another chance via Noah and his family ... from whom we are all descended.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

You still haven't answered my questioon. If God is so much more intelligent that us, then why does he give us even the slightest opportunity to reject Him? Why can't a loving God grant us all salvation in the first place?

God does not want our love if it can't be freely given. Love, by definition must be freely given. It is a decision we make. God would not want to force His love on us, or we on Him, because then it would not be love. He quietly ask us to enter into a gentle loving relationship with Him. This is where choice comes in. He searches our soul for the least bit of good, and when He finds it He gently caresses it into a flame. He cannot find this spark of love in the devil and his followers, and thus they are condemned to hell.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

beefburrito, will you ever grow up.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

God does not want our love if it can't be freely given. Love, by definition must be freely given. It is a decision we make. God would not want to force His love on us, or we on Him, because then it would not be love. He quietly ask us to enter into a gentle loving relationship with Him. This is where choice comes in. He searches our soul for the least bit of good, and when He finds it He gently caresses it into a flame. He cannot find this spark of love in the devil and his followers, and thus they are condemned to hell.

So the default is to go to Hell unless you show love to God? Is that how a Father should treat his children?

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

J C wrote:

... given another chance via Noah and his family.

Correct.

Effects

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

Noah took each pair of creatures into the Ark. We should not understand this in a literal way, but it is the only way our limited intellect can understand what happened.

As in, we are not smart enough to understand how God did it, and the story is dumbed down for us?

J C

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

Why would God give us free will in the knowledge that some people would go against His rules? it's like giving a child colourful dishwasher tablets then standing idly by when the child does what it does (eats the things!).

... the alternaive would be to create robots without a mind or a will.
Our free will allows us to love as well as to hate ... and I'm very grateful for being able to freely love ... and be freely loved ... just like God feels undoubtedly.:)

... as for the hating ... I'll leave that to the haters ... who will stew in their own poisonous juice ... unless the repent ... and start to love.

koumi

beefburrito wrote: »

What a ridiculous post,more like trying to be rather clever than serious.

For the love of god "face palm"

its a brilliant post, how else do you come to understand things if you don't ask questions.
.
Great post btw

I watched the Noah movie a while ago, the one with Russell Crowe. Don't know how it got 76% on Rotten tomatoes but still, one to watch if you have nothing better to do and might help resolve a few answers. I think it's a lot of book of Enoch influenced, so...em. It's enjoyable with a bag of malteasers.

J C

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

All humans and animals were wiped out by God. Not the life in the sea. Noah took each pair of creatures into the Ark. We should not understand this in a literal way, but it is the only way our limited intellect can understand what happened.

It's very clear what happened ... a worldwide water-based catastrophe ... that killed all land based animals except those divinely protected on the Ark.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

Can anyone solve this parable for me:

European missionaries were on a missionary to an Inuit community in remote Canada. They were bringing the message of the salvation of Jesus Christ.

The missionary told the Inuit that if you believe in Jesus, all your sins will be absolved and you'll be granted eternal Heaven for all eternity, if you reject the message, you'll burn in Hell forever.

The Inuit asked the missionary, "what if I never heard of Jesus and died?". The missionary responded, "you'd be granted Heaven by default", the Inuit asked, "what if I don't believe your message?", the missionary responded, "then you'll burn in Hell forever". The Inuit responded, "then why did you tell me and give me the opportunity to reject Jesus?".

Mtx

Why do people still believe this fairytale??

BoatMad

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

Can anyone solve this parable for me:

European missionaries were on a missionary to an Inuit community in remote Canada. They were bringing the message of the salvation of Jesus Christ.

The missionary told the Inuit that if you believe in Jesus, all your sins will be absolved and you'll be granted eternal Heaven for all eternity, if you reject the message, you'll burn in Hell forever.

The Inuit asked the missionary, "what if I never heard of Jesus and died?". The missionary responded, "you'd be granted Heaven by default", the Inuit asked, "what if I don't believe your message?", the missionary responded, "then you'll burn in Hell forever". The Inuit responded, "then why did you tell me and give me the opportunity to reject Jesus?".

the logic actually suggests thats missionaries should not go anywhere or preach the existence of God to anyone, therefore ensuring, " by default " , all would be "saved"

of course , The application of logic to religion is in itself illogical ( and ridiculous )

J C

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

So the default is to go to Hell unless you show love to God? Is that how a Father should treat his children?

God wishes that nobody should perish ... but if we hate God, He will not 'kidnap' us and bring us to Heaven against our will.
... He will (very sadly) allow us go our own way ... and go to Hell ... if that is what we want to do.

BoatMad

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

I ask this as an Atheist but would like to get some Christian answers on this. I am trying to be as respectful as possible.

God apparently send a flood to destroy all wickedness, this included all humans and animals.

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Did God permit incest once again because it was only Noah and his family on the ark at the time?

Why didn't God in His infinite wisdom send Jesus earlier to save people from their own sin (that God gave them in the first place)?

its called suspension of logic, just like when you watch Star Trek movies or do you go about questioning all the special effects in the script !

Effects

Mtx wrote: »

Why do people still believe this fairytale??

Cause it sounds like it would look cool to see a big boat like that.
I'd say it was horrible to be on board though.

Isn't there new evidence to suggest that Noah kept a lot of humans on the Ark specifically to feed to the animals?

BoatMad

J C wrote: »

God wishes that nobody should perish ... but if we hate God, He will not 'kidnap' us and bring us to Heaven against our will.
... He will (very sadly) allow us go our own way ... and go to Hell ... if that is what we want to do.

what happens if we " want " to go somewhere else, its seems a rather binary choice

BoatMad

Cause it sounds like it would look cool to see a big boat like that.

Sure , sure, you believe that the ability to fashion wood into a structure of a size to supposedly accommodate what it was supposed to accommodate is actually possible !!!!

koumi

also, and I don't know how relevant it is or as a result of the flood but evil seeks out dry places, Jesus made a note of this when he cast out the legion of demons from a man and they asked to be sent into a herd of swine, which Jesus did and then the they rushed down an embankment and into the sea and perished in the waters. That's divine comedy.

J C

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

Can anyone solve this parable for me:

European missionaries were on a missionary to an Inuit community in remote Canada. They were bringing the message of the salvation of Jesus Christ.

The missionary told the Inuit that if you believe in Jesus, all your sins will be absolved and you'll be granted eternal Heaven for all eternity, if you reject the message, you'll burn in Hell forever.

The Inuit asked the missionary, "what if I never heard of Jesus and died?". The missionary responded, "you'd be granted Heaven by default", the Inuit asked, "what if I don't believe your message?", the missionary responded, "then you'll burn in Hell forever". The Inuit responded, "then why did you tell me and give me the opportunity to reject Jesus?".

That particular Inuit got his opportunity to accept or reject Jesus from the misssionary ... other Inuit ... get the same opportunity at the point of death.
Whenever the opportunity is presented ... some people will and some people won't ... accept Jesus and be Saved.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

Why did all of the Biblical stories happen within like a 500 mile radius (possibly less) of Palestine?

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

J C wrote: »

That particular Inuit got his opportunity to accept or reject Jesus from the misssionary ... other Inuit ... get the same opportunity at the point of death.
Whenever the opportunity is presented ... some people will and some people won't ... accept Jesus and be Saved.

Rephrase the question then, just with God in place of the missionary. Why should anyone be presented with the opportunity not to believe only to be caste into Hell?

It is more likely that you would disbelieve when you are alive (depending on how your mind works).

koumi

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

Why did all of the Biblical stories happen within like a 500 mile radius (possibly less) of Palestine?

Because the bible is the word of the God of Abraham (of Isaac, Jacob and Moses)

BoatMad

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote: »

Why did all of the Biblical stories happen within like a 500 mile radius (possibly less) of Palestine?

Donkey walking distance , God seemingly does not possess even the simplest of gear your average starship has.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Why did all of the Biblical stories happen within like a 500 mile radius (possibly less) of Palestine?

Don't know.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Mtx wrote:

Why do people still believe this fairytale??

If you think its a fairytale, you are on the wrong side.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

The Inuit asked the missionary, "what if I never heard of Jesus and died?". The missionary responded, "you'd be granted Heaven by default", the Inuit asked, "what if I don't believe your message?", the missionary responded, "then you'll burn in Hell forever". The Inuit responded, "then why did you tell me and give me the opportunity to reject Jesus?".

Why would you want the opportunity to reject Jesus? You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

BoatMad wrote:

Donkey walking distance , God seemingly does not possess even the simplest of gear your average starship has.

God meets us at our stage of development.

BoatMad

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

God meets us at our stage of development.

I look forward when we bend time and peek back to the "holy " land, God will have a bit of a problem

or when we do interplanetary travel and discover a whole lot more about ourselves

when the first europeans landed in South America, they were treated as Gods, sadly for them , it seems they were sadly disabused on that notion on a little closer inspection

Gods tend to fail on closer inspection by an large, as does reality TV , both are similar

J C

BoatMad wrote: »

Sure , sure, you believe that the ability to fashion wood into a structure of a size to supposedly accommodate what it was supposed to accommodate is actually possible !!!!

It is ... and there is a full scale model in Holland at present .. complete with a Giraffe and an Elephant for scale :-

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

Why does God allow young children to suffer in famine, drought and to get terrible disease (go to any hospital, Crumlin, Temple Street, etc.).

o1s1n

hl52cg1mpez98k wrote: »

All humans and animals were wiped out by God. Not the life in the sea. Noah took each pair of creatures into the Ark. We should not understand this in a literal way, but it is the only way our limited intellect can understand what happened.

The earth was flooded until the highest peaks were covered? Right? (Genesis 7:20)

Water finds a level, meaning that in such a case, all the earths water would have mixed together. (ie, all become salt water)

Can you please explain to me how fresh water fish survived/exist today?

kub

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

I ask this as an Atheist but would like to get some Christian answers on this. I am trying to be as respectful as possible.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

God apparently send a flood to destroy all wickedness, this included all humans and animals.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

I ask this as an Atheist but would like to get some Christian answers on this. I am trying to be as respectful as possible.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

God apparently send a flood to destroy all wickedness, this included all humans and animals.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Would all the fish and sea-dwelling animals have been OK when this flood was sent? If so, then why did they escape God's wrath? If the answer to this is that the fish were innocent, then so too were the land-dwelling animals, so why should they have suffered? If the answer to this is that the land-dwelling animals only got "caught in the crossfire" when He sent the flood, then why couldn't God have just sent a plague to wipe out humans and leave the animals alone.

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Did God permit incest once again because it was only Noah and his family on the ark at the time?

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18 wrote:

Why didn't God in His infinite wisdom send Jesus earlier to save people from their own sin (that God gave them in the first place)?

Just to throw some logic into this, I have to wonder, was the rain water, salty or fresh water?
With the amount of water involved in flooding the earth to such an extent then surely had it been salty, it would have killed all the fish in the fresh water and should it have been fresh, it would have had to have a negative effect on the marine life in the ocean's.

So what did the creatures in the salty water do to upset God and what did their cousins in the fresh water do to upset God?

Franciskus Gayelord Petulah 18

o1s1n wrote: »

The earth was flooded until the highest peaks were covered? Right? (Genesis 7:20)

Water finds a level, meaning that in such a case, all the earths water would have mixed together. (ie, all become salt water)

Can you please explain to me how fresh water fish survived/exist today?

And where did all this was recede to?

How do you account for evidence of continued civilisation?