Rory Best needs to step down before next weekend! Mod warning op

John0000

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian


Mod-Do not discuss the trial involved.

rustynutz

What about the old "innocent until proven guilty"? If it is proven his team mates are being accused in the wrong, which could well happen, they must be going through hell right now, and I would imagine they could do with the support of their friends in the courtroom.

GetWithIt

It might be an idea to wait for the outcome of the trial, and whether then getting both sides through attendance informs any statement from Rory Best, Ulster Rugby or the IRFU.

chocksaway

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian

Not your captain eh? And which member of the rugby panel are you?

jjpep

Why the assumption that he's there as a sign of support for the accused? Might be just as its reported him saying, he's there to hear what happened himself and not second hand through the media etc.

ELM327

You can say notmycaptian (sic) all you want, but, factually, he is the captain of the Irish rugby team.

His behaviour is exactly what one would expect of a captain. Support his teammate, innocent until proven guilty.

Stheno

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian

You might want to reread what he said.

As a character witness he was advised to attend before he appears.

As he is in Irish camp his day off was Wednesday so he went then.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/i-was-advised-it-was-important-to-attend-rory-best-breaks-silence-on-his-presence-at-rape-trial-36564114.html

Arthur Daley

Oh Jesus, have a day off

rustynutz

rustynutz wrote: »

If it is proven his team mates are being accused in the wrong, which could well happen, they must be going through hell right now,.

It will never be proven that they were accused in the wrong.
They may be found not guilty, but that's not the same as stating the girl accused them in the wrong.

pjohnson

# are the future. If its a # it must be true.

Fr_Dougal

#snowflaketriggered

jamesbere

Trial by media again, you would think reporter's would be more interested in facts. Rory best had to attend and that's that. Load of nonsense people calling for him to step down.

BBDBB

The real worry is that someone as biased as the OP is probably eligible for Jury service. Any hope of a fair trial or genuine justice just goes out the window if you start to close the court to individuals or groups

wexie

bubblypop wrote: »

It will never be proven that they were accused in the wrong.
They may be found not guilty, but that's not the same as stating the girl accused them in the wrong.

And of course we all know there have been no rape cases thrown out of court recently, none whatsoever, simply never happens.

Not saying that's the case here at all at all, but perhaps people might want to wait until the trial is over before declaring them guilty and assuming anyone still associated with them needs to be tarred with the same brush.

wexie

BBDBB wrote: »

The real worry is that someone as biased as the OP is probably eligible for Jury service. Any hope of a fair trial or genuine justice just goes out the window if you start to close the court to individuals or groups

trial by social media

namloc1980

rustynutz wrote: »

What about the old "innocent until proven guilty"? If it is proven his team mates are being accused in the wrong, which could well happen, they must be going through hell right now, and I would imagine they could do with the support of their friends in the courtroom.

It's a bit more nuanced than"innocent until proven guilty". It's not a great look to go there on the day the woman was testifying.

wexie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I dont know why they bother with trials anymore in rape cases.
Anyone associated with the defendants should be thrown under the bus with them.

Yup, getting to the stage that soon people will be calling for families to be locked up with the (alleged) criminals. Clearly their DNA is tainted, their parenting is questionable.

SALT THE EARTH, CLEANSE THEIR LINEAGE

JMNolan

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian

Do us all a favour, take your agenda somewhere else. And take your pathetic hash tag with you.

Tipsy McSwagger

I find it absolutely crazy that the accuser can remain anonymous while the accused have their names all over the media.

Galwayguy35

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian

You wouldn't by any chance be one of the people organising this campaign would you?

Maybe Best could have picked a better day to attend but I don't agree with the hate that's being thrown at him over this.

Martina1991

Mod- Redacted. Discuss Rory Best going somewhere, Do not discuss the trial itself.

Tigger

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian

Ireland team not Irish team.

Ken.

Mod-Do not discuss the case involved.

BarryD2

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's a bit more nuanced than"innocent until proven guilty". It's not a great look to go there on the day the woman was testifying.

Why not? Why wouldn't he want to hear her side of the story? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

Do us all a favour, take your agenda somewhere else. And take your pathetic hash tag with you.

I suspect the OP started the thread with that wording to garner exactly this reaction. It's just a little too pat.

Hopefully I'm wrong and cynical.

ligerdub

Up there with one of the most ridiculous protests I've ever heard of. This whole thing would not even cause a ripple were it not for the hashtag culture and the rampant witchhunts on anything related to the #MeToo movement (which has morphed from sharing tough stories about genuine hardship from sexual abuse, to stories of barely offensive behaviour, to merely any form of link to somebody who may or may not have committed an offence).

You'd swear Rory Best was the one on trial for rape!

Best has an obviously important role and status in Irish rugby. His behaviour will be more heavily scrutinised than others. Fair enough. I don't however, understand what his presence here is supposed to explicitly signal. I've heard some say this was a sinister ploy to intimidate the witness/accuser.

Are we supposed to believe that a woman who has allegedly (I don't want to make a comment on innocence or guilt here) been raped and has to go through the understandable difficulty of having to testify in court in front of many people, and in such a high profile case, will now suddenly be tipped over the edge by the presence of an individual who happens to be a colleague of the accused? I don't buy it!

The verdict in this case is an unknown at this point. I assume the accused have family members attending the hearing. Is their presence problematic? Are they supporting the abuse of women by attending the trial?

Did Best start heckling the proceedings at any stage? Was he there leading chants in favour of the guys in the dock?

We have absolutely no idea what Best thinks of all this - I've not heard him comment on the case itself either. He has effectively been held up as a figure of shame for attending a court case, which is bordering on the ludicrous (the reaction, not the court case).

Trials serve a purpose on both sides, and let the evidence and testimony dictate what happens in terms of a verdict and thereafter. People would do well to remember that Rory Best has not committed a crime, has stopped short of making any comments directly in support of those accused regardless of guilt or otherwise, and may well be asked to have some sort of role in the trial at some point. It would strike me that it could be framed as irresponsible by others were he to not attend/follow the case given his responsibilities.

JMNolan

Candie wrote: »

I suspect the OP started the thread with that wording to garner exactly this reaction. It's just a little too pat.

Hopefully I'm wrong and cynical.

It's tough to tell to be honest. I see plenty people on twitter with that hash tag so I believe the OP could be genuine.

wexie

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why not? Why wouldn't he want to hear her side of the story? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Because apparently he should do like 'normal' people.

Either automatically just assume they're both guilty 'just' because the accusation has been leveled, or get his information from the media.

I'm with you, maybe he wanted to get as much information (first hand) before he makes up his mind either way. And no matter how hard I try.....I can't find anything wrong with that.

namloc1980

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why not? Why wouldn't he want to hear her side of the story? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

What has him wanting to hear the story got to do with him being a character witness? He's not a witness to the facts of the trial, he's a witness in relation to his relationship with the accused. Hearing her story is nothing to do with that.

amcalester

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why not? Why wouldn't he want to hear her side of the story? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I agree. If a friend of mine was accused of rape I’d want to hear what the accuser has to say to help me.

Blindly believing Jackson is innocent or guilty is foolish.

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

It's tough to tell to be honest. I see plenty people on twitter with that hash tag so I believe the OP could be genuine.

Could be. A single digit post count and controversial thread always makes me a little wary though.

Jcarroll07

Its a public trial he is perfectly entitled to go to it just as is any other member of the public. He also happens to know a person who was involved and in his own words he wanted to hear both sides of the story which he is perfectly entitled to do especially in a democratic system, of which one hall mark is that justice should not just be done but be seen to be done. The idea he should step down is borderline pathetic IMO.

sydthebeat

John0000 wrote: »

Rory Best's attendance at the rape trial on Belfast, I think it is deplorable. He went the day the poor girl was giving evidence. He said this was his "down day" so he is free to do as he wishes. He said he wanted to get the two sides to the story, what crap, he could read the newspaper like everyone else. As captain of the Irish Team he represents Ireland and is an ambassador and role model. He better not be Captain for next weeks game. I totally support the campaign this week #notmycaptian


Mod-Do not discuss the trial involved.

He was under legal advice to attend.

Go find outrage somewhere else.....

JMNolan

namloc1980 wrote: »

What has him wanting to hear the story got to do with him being a character witness? He's not a witness to the facts of the trial, he's a witness in relation to his relationship with the accused. Hearing her story is nothing to do with that.

I disagree. People have been badly burnt for giving character references for people, anyone giving a character reference would do well to inform themselves to the case they are contributing to.

ELM327

JMNolan wrote: »

It's tough to tell to be honest. I see plenty people on twitter with that hash tag so I believe the OP could be genuine.

Is it misspelled on Twitter too?

Obvious trolling IMO. Poor effort, 3/10.

JMNolan

ELM327 wrote: »

Is it misspelled on Twitter too?

Didn't even notice it was misspelled here to be honest.

Vladimir Poontang

Ah yes another chapter in the latest SJW effort to ruin a man's career and life. Fortunately under Irish law you are innocent until proven guilty.

Rory Best has done nothing wrong whatsoever.

Take your manhating campaigns elsewhere

CatFromHue

amcalester wrote: »

Blindly believing Jackson is innocent or guilty is foolish.

Blindly believing the accused worked out well for David Walsh......oh wait!

suicide_circus

It's his job as captain to be there for his team mates. If the lads are found guilty they're on their own but until then Rory is doing the right thing.

jjpep

amcalester wrote: »

I agree. If a friend of mine was accused of rape I’d want to hear what the accuser has to say to help me.

Blindly believing Jackson is innocent or guilty is foolish.

This exactly. OP is assuming that he's going there with his mind made up already.

riffmongous

Why didnt he just explain himself the first day? It would have nipped it all in the bud, especially considering this is such a high profile case and that the girls story was being highly publicised, particularly the part where she said she was afraid of taking on Ulster rugby

humberklog

John0000 wrote: »

#notmycaptian

Something kinda creepy when a catchy slogan of disapproval is hash tagged by a baying mob on the internet.

hatrickpatrick

Innocent until proven guilty. He's supporting his friend and team mate who he believes to be innocent - as he has every right to, under every written and unwritten rule of due process in a democratic society.

F*ck the people who are pedalling guilt and shame by accusation alone. They will be the death of civilised society.

wexie

riffmongous wrote: »

Why didnt he just explain himself the first day? It would have nipped it all in the bud, especially considering this is such a high profile case and that the girls story was being highly publicised, particularly the part where she said she was afraid of taking on Ulster rugby

On the one hand I'd agree with you that it would have saved some commotion and would have been the cleverer move.(although not sure that in the current climate with the current loonies there wouldn't have been commotion anyways).

On the other hand though.....why should there be any explaining to do?

Beechwoodspark

Wow, so now people are to be criticised for attending a trial?

Jcarroll07

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Wow, so now people are to be criticised for attending a trial?

Yup and if you dont agree you are in need of reeducation and will be sent to the appropriate camp shortly

DickSwiveller

I see the usual self-obsessed, virtue signalling mob are rounding on Best. Is anybody else getting sick of these people? Loads of morons saying they couldn't watch the match because he attended the trial. How many of these insufferable blowhards actually watch rugby.

professore

SimpleDimples wrote: »

This confuses me too.

Is the purpose of a character witness not to provide a view of the person's character as they know the person.

His statement in terms of the character of the accused should be independent of details of the trail.

Based on what said, his view may change after listening to some of the evidence. Surely that cannot be right?! i.e. yes your honor, i know the accused as a fine upstanding citizen but on hearing the evidence i might have been mistaken - how does that work?

Well if they show some convincing evidence that prove the guilt of the defendants, e.g. a recording of her screaming or saying to please stop or whatever, then as a character witness that would change your mind on whether they were of good character, would it not? Or are we all meant to worship some people and vilify others regardless of their actions?

As to whether he should attend - of course he should bloody attend! He is going to give testimony that has the potential to let guilty people go free or alternatively wrongfully convict innocent men and further destroy their lives.

Reading the crap that the newspapers spout these days doesn't cut it.

SimpleDimples

professore wrote: »

Well if they show some convincing evidence that prove the guilt of the defendants, e.g. a recording of her screaming or saying to please stop or whatever, then as a character witness that would change your mind on whether they were of good character, would it not? Or are we all meant to worship some people and vilify others regardless of their actions?

As to whether he should attend - of course he should bloody attend! He is going to give testimony that has the potential to let guilty people go free or alternatively wrongfully convict innocent men and further destroy their lives.

Reading the crap that the newspapers spout these days doesn't cut it.

It's supposed to be an outline of the accused's character - independent of the details of the court case.

I'm not talking about whether or not he was right to attend as a teammate/captain etc- just solely questioning the logic of the reasons he gave for being there.

riffmongous

wexie wrote: »

On the one hand I'd agree with you that it would have saved some commotion and would have been the cleverer move.(although not sure that in the current climate with the current loonies there wouldn't have been commotion anyways).

On the other hand though.....why should there be any explaining to do?

Well it could be seen as trying to create an atmosphere of intimidation, all these high profile stars showing up when the girl is giving her testimony, not when their colleague/friend is

Omackeral

CatFromHue wrote: »

Blindly believing the accused worked out well for David Walsh......oh wait!

Difference here is that Best is giving a character reference on the man he knows and has known. Should the defendant be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and Best still endorses him, then by all means have a go.