Immigrant-related shooting in Italy

pemay

Saw this on the news earlier

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42930749

An Italian man did a drive-by shooting in two immigration-heavy areas of a town in Italy, injuring several immigrants.

Motivation is believed to be an 18 year old Italian girl who was murdered, dismembered, and put in two suitcases. A Nigerian man is being held for questioning.

A revenge attack, essentially.

I mentioned this in another thread, half-jokingly, that racism/immigration go hand in hand. You never hear of low-immigration countries having problems with racism, such as Japan. But you always hear of it in the USA, the UK, France, and thanks to the recent wave of immigration, plenty of other parts of Europe too. And its getting worse.

As simple as it sounds (never underestimate fundamentals), the evidence is that immigration = racism. More immigration = more racism. Millions of immigrants, with absolutely no end in sight, therefore, = rise of Nazi party round two?

If Ireland doesn't want to deal with these increasingly serious problems, then we should severely curtail immigration. Its very, very easy to understand.

What say you, Ireland? Feeling left out of the simmering race clashes in other countries? Or maybe you'd rather avoid it?

Sidenote: even the supremely obvious rise in extreme right-left ideology is 100% down to different tribes living "together" (globalisation?), the birthplace being the USA where each group is playing the race-Olympics to further their own tribes power.

Are we going to realise that a spade is a spade before it takes proper root here too? (and guaranteed some seeds have already been sown, my 13 year old brother was "instructed" about white privilege by another 13 year old immigrant a few weeks ago. Its funny, but deadly serious at the same time. Wait till they grow up!)

pemay

pemay wrote: »

Saw this on the news earlier

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42930749

An Italian man did a drive-by shooting in two immigration-heavy areas of a town in Italy, injuring several immigrants.

Motivation is believed to be an 18 year old Italian girl who was murdered, dismembered, and put in two suitcases. A Nigerian man is being held for questioning.

A revenge attack, essentially.

I mentioned this in another thread, half-jokingly, that racism/immigration go hand in hand. You never hear of low-immigration countries having problems with racism, such as Japan. But you always hear of it in the USA, the UK, France, and thanks to the recent wave of immigration, plenty of other parts of Europe too. And its getting worse.

As simple as it sounds (never underestimate fundamentals), the evidence is that immigration = racism. More immigration = more racism. Millions of immigrants, with absolutely no end in sight, therefore, = rise of Nazi party round two?

If Ireland doesn't want to deal with these increasingly serious problems, then we should severely curtail immigration. Its very, very easy to understand.

What say you, Ireland? Feeling left out of the simmering race clashes in other countries? Or maybe you'd rather avoid it?

Sidenote: even the supremely obvious rise in extreme right-left ideology is 100% down to different tribes living "together" (globalisation?), the birthplace being the USA where each group is playing the race-Olympics to further their own tribes power.

Are we going to realise that a spade is a spade before it takes proper root here too? (and guaranteed some seeds have already been sown, my 13 year old brother was "instructed" about white privilege by another 13 year old immigrant a few weeks ago. Its funny, but deadly serious at the same time. Wait till they grow up!)

Italy is very racist. But what you say above is very very racist.

pemay

Deleted User wrote: »

Italy is very racist. But what you say above is very very racist.

Yep, we need to keep all our attention on the important things

Hector Bellend

Pop a cap in dey ass

riffmongous

But Japan is very racist

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/japan-racism-survey-reveals-one-in-three-foreigners-experience-discrimination

The government mailed the survey to 18,500 foreign residents across the country late last year, and received responses from 4,252 of them.

About 30% of the respondents said they had been on the receiving end of discriminatory remarks “often” or “sometimes”. Those comments were most likely to be made by strangers, but many people also pointed the finger at bosses, colleagues or subordinates in their workplaces, the Jiji news agency reported.

Problems in workplaces were not confined to verbal remarks. One in four people who had sought a job said they were denied employment because they were a foreigner, and one in five believed they were paid less than their Japanese counterparts for similar work.

Four in 10 people in this group said they had been stopped from moving into housing because they were foreigners. Some of them had even seen notices saying foreigners were not accepted, the Kyodo news agency reported.

The survey also found significant unease about ultra-nationalist campaigners who frequently drive around the streets of major cities with loudspeakers expressing their sentiments.

More than 1,150 hate speech rallies were held in Japan between April 2012 and September 2015, according to data previously released by the justice ministry.

Four in 10 respondents to the latest survey said they were uncomfortable about such demonstrations against foreigners. Japan introduced a law to curb hate speech in June last year, but it has been criticised for lacking penalties.

RobbieTheRobber

What the **** has japan got to do with a shooting Italy?

Your holding Japan up as a non racist country too, **** me you have drawn some bizarre link there to suit your racist rant.

Some people are so stupid it's not worth talking to them.

kneemos

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What the **** has japan got to do with a shooting Italy?

Your holding Japan up as a non racist country too, **** me you have drawn some bizarre link there to suit your racist rant.

Some people are so stupid it's not worth talking to them.

Japan aren't racist apparently because they don't have foreigners...???

Defies logic.

pemay

riffmongous wrote: »

But Japan is very racist

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/japan-racism-survey-reveals-one-in-three-foreigners-experience-discrimination

I think youre missing the point. I am sure that japan is indeed VERY racist. But with so few people there to suffer from it........who cares? I'm sure the Japanese don't. I'm sure the Japanese don't have the internet vitriol of western Europe when it comes to racism, and everything related to racism. Right?

Oh I'm sure it sucks for the couple of percent who live there, but would you rather be Japanese in Japan, or American in the USA?

Does inherent racism manifest itself MORE in mixed-race countries, or less? Does it create MORE issues in mixed-race countries, or less?

Big difference.

pemay

kneemos wrote: »

Japan aren't racist apparently because they don't have foreigners...???

Defies logic.

I didn't say they aren't racist, I said it isn't a problem there (all relatively speaking)

But then you have people who deliberately want to miss the point, too. Lots of them around.

pemay

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What the **** has japan got to do with a shooting Italy?

Your holding Japan up as a non racist country too, **** me you have drawn some bizarre link there to suit your racist rant.

Some people are so stupid it's not worth talking to them.

Nope, but you get the medal for 2nd person to not read what I wrote. If you weren't in such a tizzy to get your "hes a racist!!!" shill in there, you might have copped on.

And thanks for calling me stupid too, you blind moron.

Pero_Bueno

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

I think youre missing the point. I am sure that japan is indeed VERY racist. But with so few people there to suffer from it........who cares? I'm sure the Japanese don't. I'm sure the Japanese don't have the internet vitriol of western Europe when it comes to racism, and everything related to racism. Right?

Oh I'm sure it sucks for the couple of percent who live there, but would you rather be Japanese in Japan, or American in the USA?

Does inherent racism manifest itself MORE in mixed-race countries, or less? Does it create MORE issues in mixed-race countries, or less?

Big difference.

By your logic, people of different races should never live in the same country. That's absolutely insane and completely racist. I'm assuming you hold a stance on miscegenation too....

beautyobsessed

Here's my two cents; If the government and pc-brigade say you cannot talk about immigration or racism or the fact the natives are getting a raw deal, and certain topics are off the table for discussion [ like what was a Nigerian drug dealer doing in Italy in the first place] then you will have a pressure-cooker situation where the frustration builds and builds and builds until you get a serious situation. If we keep ignoring these problems in the end we will store up more racism on both sides of the coin!

kneemos

pemay wrote: »

I didn't say they aren't racist, I said it isn't a problem there (all relatively speaking)

But then you have people who deliberately want to miss the point, too. Lots of them around.

Still doesn't make sense.

Spanish Eyes

Just to say, sorry, but has Japan got loads of Syrians, Nigerians, Somalians, and other Sub Sharan Africa migrants and all the rest of it? I don't think so. But their homegeneity is never questioned by the let them all in brigade is it?

Just to balance things out a bit.

Odhinn

pemay wrote: »

I think youre missing the point. I am sure that japan is indeed VERY racist. But with so few people there to suffer from it........who cares? I'm sure the Japanese don't. I'm sure the Japanese don't have the internet vitriol of western Europe when it comes to racism, and everything related to racism. Right?

Oh I'm sure it sucks for the couple of percent who live there, but would you rather be Japanese in Japan, or American in the USA?

Does inherent racism manifest itself MORE in mixed-race countries, or less? Does it create MORE issues in mixed-race countries, or less?

Big difference.

Wtf are you on about?

pitifulgod

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just to say, sorry, but has Japan got loads of Syrians, Nigerians, Somalians, and other Sub Sharan Africa migrants and all the rest of it? I don't think so. But their homegeneity is never questioned by the let them all in brigade is it?

Just to balance things out a bit.

See that's not true, they've faced considerable criticism from the UN for years.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/02/26/national/japan-faces-u-n-racism-criticism/#.VGQjdfTF_Kk

riffmongous

pemay wrote: »

I think youre missing the point. I am sure that japan is indeed VERY racist. But with so few people there to suffer from it........who cares? I'm sure the Japanese don't. I'm sure the Japanese don't have the internet vitriol of western Europe when it comes to racism, and everything related to racism. Right?

Oh I'm sure it sucks for the couple of percent who live there, but would you rather be Japanese in Japan, or American in the USA?

Does inherent racism manifest itself MORE in mixed-race countries, or less? Does it create MORE issues in mixed-race countries, or less?

Big difference.

What a bizarre attitude. The Japanese dont care because they are not the victims of it and its only a few people anyway?

Manilla 100,000
Nanking 300,000
'comfort women' a few hundred thousand women raped

Those were the results of Japanese racism

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

By your logic, people of different races should never live in the same country. That's absolutely insane and completely racist. I'm assuming you hold a stance on miscegenation too....

I think the focus of modern society should be focused on cooperation, not integration. So in a way, yeah, I think it is happier and healthier for a society all around to have very low immigration.

But can you not make the simple observation that the most embattled societies in modern times

1....have very heavy immigration numbers and immigrant pasts?

and 2.....that most of the civil unrest in these countries is predicated on race relations?

Hence my comparison between Japan and , say, the USA.

Simply saying "that's crazy!" only shows an ignorance of the status quo.

How do you observe these things and think about them? Do you draw conclusions or tow lines?

pemay

riffmongous wrote: »

What a bizarre attitude. The Japanese dont care because they are not the victims of it and its only a few people anyway?

Manilla 100,000
Nanking 300,000
'comfort women' a few hundred thousand women raped

Those were the results of Japanese racism

Thankfully that is the past, and I'm not talking about the past.

So, back in reality, what is "bizarre" about my observations?

Is it that you are just so used to the status quo that anything else startles you?

Odhinn

pemay wrote: »

I think the focus of modern society should be focused on cooperation, not integration. So in a way, yeah, I think it is happier and healthier for a society all around to have very low immigration.

But can you not make the simple observation that the most embattled societies in modern times

1....have very heavy immigration numbers and immigrant pasts?

Examples, please. And you might define "modern times".

pemay

Odhinn wrote: »

Wtf are you on about?

Hahaha!

And 3 people actually liked your contribution?

Or are you being genuine, and maybe you need me to be more simple and understanding of your comprehension problems?

pemay

Odhinn wrote: »

Examples, please. And you might define "modern times".

Race riots in London, paris, the Italian shooting, the Italian murder, the rise of the far right at community and government level, the new lexicon to include "snowflakes" and "Nazis", checking your privilege, the other thread about the au pair getting ripped off, the other thread about social housing, trump, brexit, mc vities jammy dodgers.....

Oh you know, that's just immediately off the top of my head.

But you couldn't possibly have noticed ANY of that, or of the million other examples.

Not at all, at all, at all!!

pilly

Let's just build a wall around Ireland. That will stop the bold women from going to England for abortions as well.

FFS. Give my head peace.

Spanish Eyes

pitifulgod wrote: »

See that's not true, they've faced considerable criticism from the UN for years.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2010/02/26/national/japan-faces-u-n-racism-criticism/#.VGQjdfTF_Kk

That page doesn't open for me.

Anyhow, criticism is fine, it doesn't mean they will change their homogeneic policy anytime soon either, does it? They can do what they like, and they do.

Never hear any criticism about this, or Australia or wherever that have strict rules.

It is only us and the EU now. No wonder Brexit happened.

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

I think the focus of modern society should be focused on cooperation, not integration. So in a way, yeah, I think it is happier and healthier for a society all around to have very low immigration.

But can you not make the simple observation that the most embattled societies in modern times

1....have very heavy immigration numbers and immigrant pasts?

and 2.....that most of the civil unrest in these countries is predicated on race relations?

Hence my comparison between Japan and , say, the USA.

Simply saying "that's crazy!" only shows an ignorance of the status quo.

How do you observe these things and think about them? Do you draw conclusions or tow lines?

The USA's race relations doesn't tend to go back to immigration, it's simply the fact that they have a history of slavery and have virtually abandoned certain communities. You're logic is backward and not showing any desire to improve society. It's more about enshrining racism and xenophobia as part of cultural tradition. People of other races are presently Irish, that's not going to change. We should not pander to racists and xenophobes.

pemay

beautyobsessed wrote: »

Here's my two cents; If the government and pc-brigade say you cannot talk about immigration or racism or the fact the natives are getting a raw deal, and certain topics are off the table for discussion [ like what was a Nigerian drug dealer doing in Italy in the first place] then you will have a pressure-cooker situation where the frustration builds and builds and builds until you get a serious situation. If we keep ignoring these problems in the end we will store up more racism on both sides of the coin!

Just LOOK at the first handful of comments, ffs! hahaha.

Automatons, pre-programmed to ignore detail and shill, shill, shill!

You'd think they were getting paid for it

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

Just LOOK at the first handful of comments, ffs! hahaha.

Automatons, pre-programmed to ignore detail and shill, shill, shill!

You'd think they were getting paid for it

Did you open this topic for a discussion for people to agree with you rather than to discuss?

Atoms for Peace

Well the last time such quantities of "barbarians" crossed into Italian territory it didn't end too well for them.

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

The USA's race relations doesn't tend to go back to immigration, it's simply the fact that they have a history of slavery and have virtually abandoned certain communities. You're logic is backward and not showing any desire to improve society. It's more about enshrining racism and xenophobia as part of cultural tradition. People of other races are presently Irish, that's not going to change. We should not pander to racists and xenophobes.

Well I'm not going to mince words about the EXACT origin of the rampant racism and tribalism in the USA.

Suffice to say, it its the presence of so many tribes that is the root of the problem.

BTW, what you call "enshrining" is just plain biology. It doesn't need to be enshrined. And as for improving society or not? Well its hardly working as is, now, is it? The hard-wiring of biology isn't going to change either, is it?

Cooperation is vastly superior in terms of outcome than forced integration (that blatantly causes many problems).

To the complete contrary of your point, simply closing your eyes to the worsening reality, pretending its actually working, and criticising alternatives out of hand is the EXACT recipe for social DISimprovement.

Spanish Eyes

Some countries do not have any immigrants. Discuss why this is so. I am talking about great economies here before you get any ideas!

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

Well I'm not going to mince words about the EXACT origin of the rampant racism and tribalism in the USA.

Suffice to say, it its the presence of so many tribes that is the root of the problem.

BTW, what you call "enshrining" is just plain biology. It doesn't need to be enshrined. And as for improving society or not? Well its hardly working as is, now, is it? The hard-wiring of biology isn't going to change either, is it?

Cooperation is vastly superior in terms of outcome than forced integration (that blatantly causes many problems).

To the complete contrary of your point, simply closing your eyes to the worsening reality, pretending its actually working, and criticising alternatives out of hand is the EXACT recipe for social DISimprovement.

You're claiming a biological basis for racism now? You're moving into outright pseudoscience now...

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

Did you open this topic for a discussion for people to agree with you rather than to discuss?

Just read my comment, then go back and look at the first few comments.

They didn't even read what I wrote. They are the ones trying their best to avoid the topic.

And why? Because it has become a social hot-button issue......ANYTHING related to different groups of people living together. Or in other words, just another example of what I am talking about. Problems.

super_furry

Look I think everyone can see your agenda from the topic title alone. Calling a drive-by attack where an Italian racist goes looking for black people to shoot an 'immigrant-related shooting' is like calling Bloody Sunday an Irish terrorist attack.

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

You're claiming a biological basis for racism now? You're moving into outright pseudoscience now...

Yes I am. And I wont entertain any argument against actual science.

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

Yes I am. And I wont entertain any argument against actual science.

You're gonna need to provide some sources for that claim as it's sounding distinctly like pseudo science which has historically been used by racists. You initially opened this topic, pretending to have found a solution but it's seeming more and more like you hold racist views...

pemay

super_furry wrote: »

Look I think everyone can see your agenda from the topic title alone. Calling a drive-by attack where an Italian racist goes looking for black people to shoot an 'immigrant-related shooting' is like calling Bloody Sunday an Irish terrorist attack.

Oh so I wasn't precious enough with my wording for you, hence you aren't "able" to engage the actual topic?

How about "immigration-related shooting in Italy"?

Or "racist targets immigrants after immigrant-suspected murder?"

Or let me guess, youd rather just have half the story, "racist does bad thing!"

I mean come on, talk about finding a reason not to think about something.

Spanish Eyes

Australia sends their boat people to Papua New Guinea now.

I have no idea how Japan has avoided the African delegation, nothing is too far for them if Ireland is in their sights, honestly. And China.

And then there is America and Canada.

What's the story with New Zealand. All homogenised too?

Never hear of anyone wanting to immigrate to Mexico or South America or the Phillipines do we?

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

You're gonna need to provide some sources for that claim as it's sounding distinctly like pseudo science which has historically been used by racists. You initially opened this topic, pretending to have found a solution but it's seeming more and more like you hold racist views...

I'll tell you what, you go and prove the opposite instead.

And imagine that I was the most racist, hateful human being ever plonked on planet earth...........does that give you an excuse to ignore the simple observations I have made?

Why don't you just try to counter my observations, you know, like a conversation or debate, instead of looking for reasons to avoid thinking?

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

Oh so I wasn't precious enough with my wording for you, hence you aren't "able" to engage the actual topic?

How about "immigration-related shooting in Italy"?

Or "racist targets immigrants after immigrant-suspected murder?"

Or let me guess, youd rather just have half the story, "racist does bad thing!"

I mean come on, talk about finding a reason not to think about something.

Let's add some details, none of the people attacked appear to have any association with the perpetrator of the other murder. He made a nazi salute and is a member of the far right party, the Northern League. So really what happened is that a Neo Nazi engaged in a racially motivated attack. Instead you used as a justification for your viewpoint...

pemay wrote: »

I'll tell you what, you go and prove the opposite instead.

And imagine that I was the most racist, hateful human being ever plonked on planet earth...........does that give you an excuse to ignore the simple observations I have made?

Why don't you just try to counter my observations, you know, like a conversation or debate, instead of looking for reasons to avoid thinking?

I asked you to backup your claim of a biological basis for racism. You're the person claiming that as a fact... Shouldn't get so upset about asked to backup outlandish claims.

super_furry

pemay wrote: »

Oh so I wasn't precious enough with my wording for you, hence you aren't "able" to engage the actual topic?

How about "immigration-related shooting in Italy"?

Or "racist targets immigrants after immigrant-suspected murder?"

Or let me guess, youd rather just have half the story, "racist does bad thing!"

I mean come on, talk about finding a reason not to think about something.

Oh no, I'm not engaging with you because you're a racist, espousing racist viewpoints.

My apologies if that wasn't clear.

The_Kew_Tour

A disgrace and will only lead to more division and hatred.

Although Italians have been up in Arms for quite some time about Immigration.

it gives no right to murder people.

A coward

pemay

pitifulgod wrote: »

Let's add some details, none of the people attacked appear to have any association with the perpetrator of the other murder. He made a nazi salute and is a member of the far right party, the Northern League. So really what happened is that a Neo Nazi engaged in a racially motivated attack. Instead you used as a justification for your viewpoint...



I asked you to backup your claim of a biological basis for racism. You're the person claiming that as a fact... Shouldn't get so upset about asked to backup outlandish claims.

Yeah those are the facts so far. And they are related to immigration.

My topic is about immigration-related problems.

And?

The Backwards Man

*Watches news, wonders where the 400 clowns attending that clownshow in the RDS today came out of.....

....logs onto boards*

pemay

super_furry wrote: »

Oh no, I'm not engaging with you because you're a racist, espousing racist viewpoints.

My apologies if that wasn't clear.

Well done, good sir, another day, another opportunity to call some racist, ignore the simple observations made, say nothing more and get back-rubbed by similarly disinclined intellectuals.

RandomName2

Clearly large groups of unintegrated immigrants from very different cultural backgrounds forming expat communities in a country they find themselves in are going to create multiple problems in the long run. I'd say its obviousness is part of the reason for the 'burn it all down' brigade screaming 'racist' every three seconds.

pemay

The Backwards Man wrote: »

*Watches news, wonders where the 400 clowns attending that clownshow in the RDS today came out of.....

....logs onto boards*

Excellent point. You are all doing yourselves a service in avoiding the biggest topic of our age .

Shenshen

So let me sum this up : A person goes out and murders 2 complete strangers, selected exclusively by their looks (I assume), and the OP blames the people who were shot for being in Italy in the first place?

That does take some admirable mental gymnastics.

pemay

RandomName2 wrote: »

Clearly large groups of unintegrated immigrants from very different cultural backgrounds forming expat communities in a country they find themselves in are going to create multiple problems in the long run. I'd say it's obviousness is part of the reason for the 'burn it all down' brigade screaming 'racist' every three seconds.

This thread is a farce, its a neverending stream of people virtue-signalling, barely a word said against my observations.

THIS is the problem, and why its going to get much worse.

pitifulgod

pemay wrote: »

Excellent point. You are all doing yourselves a service in avoiding the biggest topic of our age .

Why can't you back up points when you're asked to? It's almost as if you're making baseless and uninformed claims...

The Backwards Man

Shenshen wrote: »

So let me sum this up : A person goes out and murders 2 complete strangers, selected exclusively by their looks (I assume), and the OP blames the people who were shot for being in Italy in the first place?

That does take some admirable mental gymnastics.

When you have little to bother you, a little bothers you a lot.