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Uninsured driver hit cyclist in Dublin, fled scene gets community service

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    #122
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I have said this a hundred times before. None of this announcing measures. Buy a load of them, stick them up at the places we all know are really bad (or in fact, anywhere). Have no visible patrols in those areas for four weeks. Watch the outrage as people lose their licenses or their petrol money because they broke the law.

    They would pay for themselves and then some.

    I don't think the AA (or, say, taxi drivers unless they get another yet another de-facto derogation from the road traffic law) would approve. Dublin and elsewhere has to remain safe for cars and the AA's bottom line. Cue screeches of 'nudder attack on strivers' or something like that. Yet the money has to be an attraction to politicians. Money for them and their flunkies doesn't grow on trees, and it cannot all be borrowed. And unlike on many other things, it would genuinely help make the roads safer for cycling. Whenever a vehicle is moving erratically and out of sync, a small rectangle of light means it's the mobile phone on voice call, Facetime, and so on, if cameras could sort that.


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    #123
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ED E wrote: »
    Sure just offer the Gardai this money...

    To put it in perspective, after the first day pays for it, every other day would put 5 more Gardai on the streets for a year. Six months would pay their wage and pension.

    Does anyone have any info on whether the AA are a declared lobby group with SIPO?


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    #124
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    CramCycle wrote: »
    To put it in perspective, after the first day pays for it, every other day would put 5 more Gardai on the streets for a year. Six months would pay their wage and pension.

    Does anyone have any info on whether the AA are a declared lobby group with SIPO?

    I have no idea about the AA but I would hedge they are.

    ANPR is needed, along with a robust and up to date linked database of car ownership, licence, motor tax, NCT and insurance. Something that does not exist at present. It still mystifies me that a motor vehicle can pass the NCT with no valid motor tax or insurance, yet is driven to/from the test centre. Surely the test centres could check the basic on the road administrative requirements before going on to test the vehicle. No valid tax or insurance = no test/fail advisory. Driver disqualified = no test and report to AGS.
    Leaving things as loose as they are is just not acceptable.


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    #125
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    I have no idea about the AA but I would hedge they are.

    ANPR is needed, along with a robust and up to date linked database of car ownership, licence, motor tax, NCT and insurance. Something that does not exist at present. It still mystifies me that a motor vehicle can pass the NCT with no valid motor tax or insurance, yet is driven to/from the test centre. Surely the test centres could check the basic on the road administrative requirements before going on to test the vehicle. No valid tax or insurance = no test/fail advisory. Driver disqualified = no test and report to AGS.
    Leaving things as loose as they are is just not acceptable.

    NCTs are set to a certain date, so it might be convenient to bring it in even if it is not insured or taxed. It is rare but I have seen cars brought in like this. Most likely covering themselves from a "money making" racket accusation. This said, my old car is off the road at the minute and therefore has no tax or insurance. If i don't sell it before the NCT is due, I would like to bring it down as it would add on that cost to the value of the car regardless. Depends on how much a tow costs. If it is more than 3 months tax, then that will make my mind up. I also think someone here had to have their car towed from the test centre as their brakes failed the test and they would not allow them to drive it out, which also seems fair.

    The ANPR thing puzzles me immensely. Get rid of tax discs, insurance discs and NCT discs. All on a database that NCT and all motor insurance companies are tied into. Auto updated either daily or even on the spot.


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    #126
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    The ANPR thing puzzles me immensely. Get rid of tax discs, insurance discs and NCT discs. All on a database that NCT and all motor insurance companies are tied into. Auto updated either daily or even on the spot.

    That would seem like an immensely good idea, albeit with Data Protection concerns. They are going that way in the UK and elsewhere, at the tax discs are gone now, but that isn't realistic in this land of cycle lanes designed by unknowns who patently never cycle or Luas carriages too long.

    Never will happen within the lifetime of anyone reading this.


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    #127
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    CramCycle wrote: »
    The ANPR thing puzzles me immensely. Get rid of tax discs, insurance discs and NCT discs. All on a database that NCT and all motor insurance companies are tied into. Auto updated either daily or even on the spot.

    Remember, there are Garda *Stations* that have no computers. None. Zero. Nada.


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    #128
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    CramCycle wrote: »
    NCTs are set to a certain date, so it might be convenient to bring it in even if it is not insured or taxed. It is rare but I have seen cars brought in like this.

    No problem but they have to be (supposed to be) towed there and back. Can’t be driven on highway without either.


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    #129
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    That would seem like an immensely good idea, although Data Protection concerns might slow the matter. They are going that way in the UK and elsewhere, at the tax discs are gone now, but that isn't realistic in this land of cycle lanes designed by unknowns who patently never cycle or Luas carriages too long.

    Undoubtedly it will but I cannot see the issue. The license plate is in the public domain, I can already check online through adverts or done deal whether a car is NCTd or Tax'd, it takes a few seconds. So there is nothing there.

    It also means the insurance companies can put a list of registered drivers of the car on it, so bar someone having open drive (they really should be carrying around their policy with them in the car they are using if they do). It should not be an issue.


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    #130
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,537 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm insured to drive any car i find myself in (which my licence covers), under my policy - that's quite common, so could be a confusing factor.


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    #131
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    CramCycle wrote: »
    To put it in perspective, after the first day pays for it, every other day would put 5 more Gardai on the streets for a year. Six months would pay their wage and pension.

    Does anyone have any info on whether the AA are a declared lobby group with SIPO?

    They are, you can see their lobbying activities here.

    Although only 1 submission in the last 6 months seems a bit suspect.


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    #132
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm insured to drive any car i find myself in (which my licence covers), under my policy - that's quite common, so could be a confusing factor.

    Same here, mine is one of the policies that the car must be roadworthy and have insurance, although this is apparently uncommon and all you need is a roadworthy car for most insurance open policies.

    This said, if it just covered Tax and NCT. The insurance database should still be available and they can run the drivers license number to see that they have open insurance.


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    #133
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    CramCycle wrote: »
    NCTs are set to a certain date, so it might be convenient to bring it in even if it is not insured or taxed. It is rare but I have seen cars brought in like this. Most likely covering themselves from a "money making" racket accusation. This said, my old car is off the road at the minute and therefore has no tax or insurance. If i don't sell it before the NCT is due, I would like to bring it down as it would add on that cost to the value of the car regardless. Depends on how much a tow costs.

    As far as I can remember, you may drive an untaxed vehicle to and from the NCT. You still need to be insured though.


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    #134
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    As far as I can remember, you may drive an untaxed vehicle to and from the NCT. You still need to be insured though.

    Nope, you cannot drive on the road without tax, there are no exceptions (well trade plates and emergency vehicles) but for everyone else, ie regular Joe Bloggs, nope, it is an offence.

    There is no obligation on the NCT to look for it as road tax is not a sign of road worthiness, which is what they are testing..


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    #135
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,138 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    Road tax, CramCycle? Tsk tsk, and you a Cycling mod :pac:


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    #136
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    RobertFoster wrote: »
    Road tax, CramCycle? Tsk tsk, and you a Cycling mod :pac:

    They finally broke me AA Ireland have been lobbying me to say it for years.


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    #137
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Nope, you cannot drive on the road without tax, there are no exceptions (well trade plates and emergency vehicles) but for everyone else, ie regular Joe Bloggs, nope, it is an offence.

    There is no obligation on the NCT to look for it as road tax is not a sign of road worthiness, which is what they are testing..
    One exception...
    motortax.ie wrote:
    Motortax.ie FAQ
    Q15. What if I'm due to have an NCT while my car is off the road?

    A15. A vehicle may be used during the period of a non-use declaration in two cases:

    to bring it to and from a test centre for the test; or
    to bring it for repair after a re-test, or back to where you are keeping it while it is off the road after the repairs. This option may only be used where an appointment has already been made for a re-test.

    The same rules apply to roadworthiness testing for commercial vehicles.
    If you are bringing the vehicle to a test centre or to or from repairs after a test failure, it would be advisable to carry a copy of the appointment for the test or re-test with you.


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    #138
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    CramCycle wrote: »
    They finally broke me AA Ireland have been lobbying me to say it for years.

    :D
    CramCycle wrote: »
    Undoubtedly it will but I cannot see the issue. The license plate is in the public domain, I can already check online through adverts or done deal whether a car is NCTd or Tax'd, it takes a few seconds. So there is nothing there.


    Correct. There are no data protection issues for data that is legally supposed to be diaplayed in public. That covers, reg, make, model, tax and insurance.


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    #139
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    One exception...

    Well I'll be a monkeys uncle, this may save me hassle if I still have the car in a few months. Although as far as I can tell, it must be declared off the road but you would be foolish not to have done this anyway as you will have to pay the tax regardless if it is not declared off the road.


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    #140
    turbbo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭turbbo


    ED E wrote: »
    Remember, there are Garda *Stations* that have no computers. None. Zero. Nada.

    They all should have computers no doubt, but wouldn't it just be easier to call in a number to get it checked for tax insurance and nct? Are we the only clowns in europe now with 3 discs glued to our windscreens? Seems archaic. Also shouldn't it be like the m50 where we have cameras scanning reg plates on a constant basis on our roads. We seem to be behind on everything.


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    #141
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    turbbo wrote: »
    They all should have computers no doubt, but wouldn't it just be easier to call in a number to get it checked for tax insurance and nct? Are we the only clowns in europe now with 3 discs glued to our windscreens? Seems archaic. Also shouldn't it be like the m50 where we have cameras scanning reg plates on a constant basis on our roads. We seem to be behind on everything.

    You ask for too much innovation. :D


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    #142
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    turbbo wrote: »
    They all should have computers no doubt, but wouldn't it just be easier to call in a number to get it checked for tax insurance and nct? Are we the only clowns in europe now with 3 discs glued to our windscreens? Seems archaic. Also shouldn't it be like the m50 where we have cameras scanning reg plates on a constant basis on our roads. We seem to be behind on everything.

    You want us to follow this model?

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/16/untaxed-vehicles-uk-trebles-tax-disc-abolition-vehicle-excise-duty-dvla


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