Native trees and hedging

Muckit

We're in bareroot season and I'm planning on planting more hedging. I know many on here have planted some lovely trees and hedges and I'd love to see pictures of them now in their winter coat. Also summer pics if you managed to take some. I'm as interested in hedges around a house as on the farm.

I planted an all beech hedge 2 years ago on farm. I will put up pics in a few days. My wifi is down at the mo.

I am thinking a mixed native hedge next perhaps, but your pics might sway me!

Hopefully this tread will do well and perhaps it might encourage us all to sow some or more hedging/trees this year.

Muckit

Daisy 55

Off topic! Thought you might be interested though!
For an existing hedgerow this Is apparently how to calculate the age. It's called Hoopers rule.

Age =(no of species in a 30 yard stretch) x 110 + 30 years.

Impressive if it's accurate!

greysides

No picture but holly through a beech hedge can nearly disappear in summer but shines out a glossy green through the matt brown of the beech in winter. A good combo.
Depending on how you intend to cut it, it might be best to avoid thorny plants in a garden hedge.
Saw a beech hedge recently cut into a triangle in cross-section. Great idea, no top to cut. Was about 8-9' tall.

49801

No pics but I am going planting 50m shortly at side of house. 40m hawthorn 10 Elaeagnus. Just trying to get someone in to do it now.

orchard farm

I love a double beech hedge with whitethorn row in middle.makes stockproff hedge eventually

Muckit

orchard farm wrote: »

I love a double beech hedge with whitethorn row in middle.makes stockproff hedge eventually

Are you talking 2 rows of beech and then hawthorn in middle? Would that work out expensive? What spacing with the beech? I put them less than a ft apart in single row

greysides

Muckit wrote: »

Are you talking 2 rows of beech and then hawthorn in middle? Would that work out expensive? What spacing with the beech? I put them less than a ft apart in single row

A double row will thicken up quicker but after about 10 years any advantage is minimal, IMO. I staggered the two rows and had the plants about 18" apart.

Resist any temptation to put trees into the hedge. Place them inside it. Stock will do a good job of keeping their side trimmed....

jimini0

Have a few hawthorn hedges to patch up. Calves are great for finding these gaps. I have some really old cow manure was thinking of using this to make a bank for around the barefoot good idea?

49801

jimini0 wrote: »

Have a few hawthorn hedges to patch up. Calves are great for finding these gaps. I have some really old cow manure was thinking of using this to make a bank for around the barefoot good idea?

Good idea if after you've them planted in the soil

greysides

It's tough to get young plants going in gaps in an established hedge as the ground is impoverished from what grew before and existing neighbours. Competition for light, water and nutrients will be stiff.
You could prepare the planting sites by mixing FYM into the soil. This will break up the soil and help water retension as well as add nutrients. Mulching with it again after planting would be good too. Maybe some fertilizer mixed in when planting as well.

gozunda

Muckit wrote: »

We're in bareroot season and I'm planning on planting more hedging. I know many on here have planted some lovely trees and hedges and I'd love to see pictures of them now in their winter coat. Also summer pics if you managed to take some. I'm as interested in hedges around a house as on the farm.

I planted an all beech hedge 2 years ago on farm. I will put up pics in a few days. My wifi is down at the mo.

I am thinking a mixed native hedge next perhaps, but your pics might sway me!

Hopefully this tread will do well and perhaps it might encourage us all to sow some or more hedging/trees this year.

Muckit

I can recommend Privat hedging around the house. Though not near stock facing boundaries as not suitable there. As a shelter belt hedge it is ideal around a house and garden.

The plants are relatively quick to establish and form a dense interlocking network of small branches. In winter it loses most of its leaves but not all so doesn't look completely naked. Very good as a windbreak.

I sourced cuttings locally and grew them on from stick cuttings planted into a prepared bed. I transplanted these the following season when they were ready to plant as hedging. Cost me nothing.

You can also buy young plants. The hedging is very hardy - grows well and does not get knocked back with dry or cold winds like some of the non native species. It looks extremely well clipped and can be done mechanically - actually if you have a length of this hedge it will save you time.

I'm attaching a photo - hope it uploads ok
Edit. Couldn't attach - file too big? Will try again later...

Muckit

jimini0 wrote: »

I have some really old cow manure was thinking of using this to make a bank for around the barefoot good idea?

Don't plant straight into it or have roots touching it or it will burn them.

yosemitesam1

greysides wrote: »

It's tough to get young plants going in gaps in an established hedge as the ground is impoverished from what grew before and existing neighbours. Competition for light, water and nutrients will be stiff.
You could prepare the planting sites by mixing FYM into the soil. This will break up the soil and help water retension as well as add nutrients. Mulching with it again after planting would be good too. Maybe some fertilizer mixed in when planting as well.

Would it be a better job if it was layed first

greysides

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Would it be a better job if it was layed first

It may well be. The problem there would be whether the original hedge is suitable for layering and then where would you get someone to do it? Could well result in a thicker and more stock-proof hedge.

fepper

Coppicing would leave more light in to new quicks if infilling and they all come together

jimini0

Muckit wrote: »

Don't plant straight into it or have roots touching it or it will burn them.

The manure is probably 6 or 8 years old. It was an old straw bed shed that was never cleaned out. Its more like compost at this stage. I might mix it in with existing soil and plant away. I have another project too to plant a semi mature oak tree in a field. Will use the same when planting that

studdlymurphy

Daisy 55 wrote:

Age =(no of species in a 30 yard stretch) x 110 + 30 years.

+30 always makes the minimum age 30 years as the multiply will always be done first. And if the 110 + 30 was in brackets the age would be a minimum of 140 years. I think there is something wrong with the formula

kk.man

Was walking through the fields yesterday and noticed a ditch with holly in parts. It grew naturally.
I stopped as I couldn't get over how stock proof it is in the dead of winter. This should be an option for those thinking of growing hedges.

agriman

I planted a hedge recently, mostly beech but some holly and hawthorn as well but the guy i bought it from recommended putting in an odd red and yellow dogwood for color. He also said to put in a few rose rogusa plants. It’s only down 2 months but it should be a nice hedge

Genghis Cant

agriman wrote: »

I planted a hedge recently, mostly beech but some holly and hawthorn as well but the guy i bought it from recommended putting in an odd red and yellow dogwood for color. He also said to put in a few rose rogusa plants. It’s only down 2 months but it should be a nice hedge

Two different hedges here have Dog rose (rosa rogusa) and Guelder rose ( I dunno what it's called but it's not a rose!)
The dog rose is an attractive flower and very attractive rose hip. The only downside I see with it is its slightly inclined to throw up shoots out from the hedge, but they're easily controlled.
The Guelder rose, which ain't a rose produces a nice bunch of small flowers and then a good bunch of berries later. They're inclined to grow a bit gappy. But they grow well.

Both of these are nice in a mixed hedge. I wouldn't plant one instead of a quick or privet or beech etc instead I'll plant them last within the hedge.

Woodbine ( honeysuckle) is nice within a hedge to. It's a creeper and produces a lovely smelling flower.

Muckit

Lads thanks for all the info so far! I would like to see some pics of these in their winter coats as want to plant a hedge for privacy and don't want it too gappy. Tks.

Muckit

Here is a pic l took of some red and yellow dogwood in a public planting. I think they look stunning in winter but friend says they dint look great in summer.... thoughts??

Genghis Cant

Muckit wrote: »

Here is a pic l took of some red and yellow dogwood in a public planting. I think they look stunning in winter but friend says they dint look great in summer.... thoughts??

A couple of things about dogwood as I see it. That pic is exactly where it looks it's best. In a corner or place where you can plant a nice bit of one colour and then contrast it with a nice bit of the other.
I've some in a hedge here and I think it's sorta lost. Little bit of red, little bit of yellow but nothing striking like the pic you posted.
I'll post a pic of mine later.
Dogwood also needs to be cut back hard. It's the new growth that's the vibrant red /yellow. Old wood is like any other plant. Brownish.

Genghis Cant

Whitethorn hedge (predominantly) planted Spring 2016. Got its first cutting Aug 2017. Bit of dead grass growing through it now.
The beech and green privet give nice winter colour.

Muckit

Beech hedge. Planted 2yrs. I did top them lightly to get them to spread

beefburrito

Lately I'm laying hawthorn hedges, they really look well.
You can also lay lonicera, hazel,and whitethorn.

Laying hedges can get addictive, it's a craft in itself.

It's like picking mushrooms, there's always a better one next in line.

I find working with hawthorn gets me really in touch with nature, there's something about working with native plant's..

Mtx

Does anyone know the price of labour for planting hedges?

49801

Mtx wrote: »

Does anyone know the price of labour for planting hedges?

Just had my 50m planted for €200. He brought his own little digger to clean a trench. He had it done in 2-3hrs.

I think it fair price.

Mtx

49801 wrote: »

Mtx wrote: »

Does anyone know the price of labour for planting hedges?

Just had my 50m planted for €200. He brought his own little digger to clean a trench. He had it done in 2-3hrs.

I think it fair price.

€4 a metre then, that seems cheap
I got quoted £5 a metre here for supplying and planting a hedge with tree guards but not covering laying plastic. Don't know if it's good value or not...

Muckit

49801 wrote: »

Just had my 50m planted for €200. He brought his own little digger to clean a trench. He had it done in 2-3hrs.

I think it fair price.

Planted mine with a rare yoke nowadays..... it's called a spade! I'm a sucker for punishment. €200 is good value for a machine. Won't get much done for it nowadays.

49801

Muckit wrote: »

Planted mine with a rare yoke nowadays..... it's called a spade! I'm a sucker for punishment. €200 is good value for a machine. Won't get much done for it nowadays.

I had to reclaim ground taken by briars so the digger was well worth it to me to clear away old roots etc. Plus I wanted grass sod cleared away to have a good clean start in life for the hedge.

If I was doing again I've my lesson learnt to spray of where planting in autumn

beefburrito

Planting ain't too expensive, I'd charge 15 Euro per meter to lay a hedge,as cleaning out the bottom of the hedge and thinning them out is very labour intensive...

Genghis Cant

The hedge didn't fare well in the snow. Sections of it heavily damaged. I may prune it back hard.

If anything can recover, whitethorn will. I hope!

greysides

Biind back in broken branches.... treat it as laying....?

Muckit

It'll only do it the world of good. Thicken it at the bottom by forcing it out.

Snow drifted down between windbreak l had each side of a hedge. God if you went to kick it with your welly, you'd nearly break your toe! Pulled windbreak down off top wire with the weight!

gozunda

Genghis Cant wrote: »

The hedge didn't fare well in the snow. Sections of it heavily damaged. I may prune it back hard.

If anything can recover, whitethorn will. I hope!

If that's young Hawthorn quicks - then prunning will do no harm. However you need to prune before active growth or wait until Autumn. Pruning will help young plants become bushier and stronger in the long run

49801

gozunda wrote: »

If that's young Hawthorn quicks - then prunning will do no harm. However you need to prune before active growth or wait until Autumn. Pruning will help young plants become bushier and stronger in the long run

How often should one prune hawthorn?
Each year or every other year?

Genghis Cant

gozunda wrote: »

If that's young Hawthorn quicks - then prunning will do no harm. However you need to prune before active growth or wait until Autumn. Pruning will help young plants become bushier and stronger in the long run

Pruned it there today. I had intended exploring the possibility of laying some of it but most of it was either hanging on by the skin of its teeth or completely detached.
Whitethorn, spindle and privet was hit hardest. Beech completely injury free. It must be hardy stuff.

gozunda

49801 wrote: »

How often should one prune hawthorn?
Each year or every other year?

The prunning in this case is for young Hawthorne quicks which benefit being cut back in the first two years of growth to stop them becoming leggy and to promote them to bush out.

For mature Hawthorne - once a year is fine

gozunda

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Pruned it there today. I had intended exploring the possibility of laying some of it but most of it was either hanging on by the skin of its teeth or completely detached.
Whitethorn, spindle and privet was hit hardest. Beech completely injury free. It must be hardy stuff.

The planted hedge looks fairly young. When was it planted?

Afaik European beech is a hardy cold climate species. It is found in many parts of Scandinavia and is naturally occurring in Denmark, southern  Norway and Sweden according to my tree guide book.

49801

gozunda wrote: »

The prunning in this case is for young Hawthorne quicks which benefit being cut back in the first two years of growth to stop them becoming leggy and to promote them to bush out.

For mature Hawthorne - once a year is fine

I am wondering for my scenario where I planted this year and pruned. I’ll plan on pruning again next winter.

gozunda

49801 wrote: »

I am wondering for my scenario where I planted this year and pruned. I’ll plan on pruning again next winter.

Yup thats recommended - next year cut all the new growth back by half. Though prune before buds open and new growth starts.

Genghis Cant

gozunda wrote: »

The planted hedge looks fairly young. When was it planted?

Yeah it's a young hedge. Planted March 16. I've little doubt it'll recover it just looks a bit patchy until it leafs out.

farawaygrass

I planted hawthorn feb 17. It never got a pruned, I put the job on the long finger. I’d it too late? Also it’s about 3-4 ft, should I cut back to maybe a ft or just take a bit off? If I only take a small bit off then will it force the hedge to thicken our lower down or just where it is cut?

49801

farawaygrass wrote: »

I planted hawthorn feb 17. It never got a pruned, I put the job on the long finger. I’d it too late? Also it’s about 3-4 ft, should I cut back to maybe a ft or just take a bit off? If I only take a small bit off then will it force the hedge to thicken our lower down or just where it is cut?

Prune now from level you wish to encourage thickening?

Not too late to prune this winter but only a mater of a week or 2 at most but a real gardener will know better than me.

gozunda

farawaygrass wrote: »

I planted hawthorn feb 17. It never got a pruned, I put the job on the long finger. I’d it too late? Also it’s about 3-4 ft, should I cut back to maybe a ft or just take a bit off? If I only take a small bit off then will it force the hedge to thicken our lower down or just where it is cut?

Afaik its recommended to trim newly plantedd hawthorn plants down to half their height to encourage them to bush out. It sounds like a lot but it does work and stops them becoming leggy.

Good idea to do that before the begining of March. With the cold weather this year I left it as long as possible due to risk of frost damage.

memorystick

Is it getting late for whitethorn? Thinking of sticking in 100 next Saturday. Few gaps and corners on banks.

Genghis Cant

memorystick wrote: »

Is it getting late for whitethorn? Thinking of sticking in 100 next Saturday. Few gaps and corners on banks.

I'd plant away.

lakill Farm

I was speaking to a lady from Dept of environment and she was saying beech isn’t native to Ireland

Setting the last stretch of a hedge here next weekend. 85m. 14 inch centres with beech hedge 3/4ft plants and a 12ft high oak tree every 20ft.

Plan is to keep the oak trees topped out about 15/16ft
3/4ft beech hedging with strong rootball e1.30 ea
12ft oak trees are e10ea

Have 850 beech hedge planted since last March and 32 oak trees replacing a few ugly hedges

Muckit

This late spring is ideal for tree planting! It's only in the last few years that l have gained any real appreciation for trees. Now I'm gone the other way and probably a little bit obsessed with them! It must be old age!!

What l remember from National school was being told about the beech, oak, sycamore, horse chestnut. Now these were probably popular going back thousands of years ago, but Ash is our most popular native tree! Also Alder and birch are very common around here and fabulous trees in their own right .....and not a bit about them!

Still have a site of trees to get in the ground myself, next week hopefully.

gozunda

lakill Farm wrote: »

I was speaking to a lady from Dept of environment and she was saying beech isn’t native to Ireland

Setting the last stretch of a hedge here next weekend. 85m. 14 inch centres with beech hedge 3/4ft plants and a 12ft high oak tree every 20ft.

Plan is to keep the oak trees topped out about 15/16ft
3/4ft beech hedging with strong rootball e1.30 ea
12ft oak trees are e10ea

Have 850 beech hedge planted since last March and 32 oak trees replacing a few ugly hedges

No not native but grows very well here there are many exceptional specimens of beech (Fagus sylvatica) around the country. I'm quite a fan of this tree as hedging and as a standard tree.

See:
https://treecouncil.ie/treeregisterofireland/aaspecies.htm.

Afaik widespread planting began in Ireland in the 18th century and the oldest estimated beech standing is approx 240 years old

https://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/records/irl/

Unfortunately being a large tree with a relatively shallow root system - many mature and beautiful examples of beech became the victims of recent storms