Do you think Ugandan Knuckles is offensive?

DredFX

Anyone who's been gaming online over the last month has probably heard at least one or two players talking about 'the way' in a heavy East African accent.

No, these gamers are not suffering from some mental disorder (though some might argue otherwise); they're actually mimicking Ugandan Knuckles, a rotund caricature of Knuckles the Echidna that recites lines from a Ugandan movie called Who Killed Captain Alex?

Now ever since it went popular it's generated a bit of debate about not how annoying it gets after ten seconds but whether it's racist to Ugandans. Polygon's Julia Alexander has weighed in on this, and its spread across social media has gotten some professional people in trouble. General concerns seem to lie with the mockery of the East African accent, Ugandan stereotypes, and accusations that it's now becoming a icon of racism in the same vein as Pepe the Frog.

Was wondering what Irish gamers thought of this.

Dave_The_Sheep

I don't think about it much at all to be honest.

Few lads in my guild do it. It's irritating as ****. It'll go away soon enough.

YouSavedMyLife

It's just sound. If I mimic a French accent as an Irish white person is that racism? How is it any different if I mimic an accent of a country that doesn't have a white majority. It's not racism.

Notorious

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

It's just sound. If I mimic a French accent as an Irish white person is that racism? How is it any different if I mimic an accent of a country that doesn't have a white majority. It's not racism.

I think you’re threading a very fine line there. It’s not just the mimicing of an accent, but also what you’re saying. People love to do an Irish accent while mentioning potatoes and leprechauns; that’s racist. One of Ugandan Knuckles lines mentions having Ebola to “know the way”. I’d label that as racist.

J. Marston

Nope. It's just quoting movie lines in an accent. Is saying, for instance, Tony Montana's "Say hello to my lil' fren'" racist or whatever?

The meme is kinda over by now anyway, isn't it? It was everywhere around 2-3 weeks ago.

ShadowHearth

Modern PC world found a new way to get offended by gamers.

Is it racist? Dont know and dont really care. Its a joke and piss take, which cought on longer then it should.

Being a bit of a tool is not automatically makes you racist.

I have irish and northen irish friends. We always take a piss from each other and have a good laugh without anyone getting offended. For example they call me Polish, when I am lithuanian, who lives in ireland for over 12 years. Never sow it offensive, just some crack. I call them Englishmen back.

As for accents. For a reason me and misses get really pissed off when in movies english speaking people speak russian or put russian accent ( for me ) and try to pass as russians. For misses same thing but they trying to be irish. She even gave up watching Son of Anarchy because of that!
It pisses us off, but not because its racists, but because it sounds **** and horrible.

Canis Lupus

I suppose I can understand why some people find it offensive and it has already outlived it's time imo but I genuinely love how gaming can create these things organically.

Robert ninja

Polygon isn't an authority on what is/isn't racist/offensive. Actual Ugandans seem to like the meme, too (the Ugandan film makers tweet positively about it). It's only pasty game journos and SJWs getting upset about it on behalf of others they think they're protecting, intimidating community managers on social media to apologise.

super_furry

There's actually a really good piece about it on Polygon here https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/2/16951684/ugandan-knuckles-pepe-frog-meme-vrchat It's not saying that it's racist only that it has the potential to be co-opted by those looking to troll and make racist statements. It makes the point that it hasn't reached Pepe levels of racist use and is actually a really well written piece on the evolution and organic growth of memes and internet culture.

jockeyboard

Never had a boyfriend....must be gay so

K.O.Kiki

super_furry wrote: »

There's actually a really good piece about it on Polygon here https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/2/16951684/ugandan-knuckles-pepe-frog-meme-vrchat It's not saying that it's racist only that it has the potential to be co-opted by those looking to troll and make racist statements. It makes the point that it hasn't reached Pepe levels of racist use and is actually a really well written piece on the evolution and organic growth of memes and internet culture.

F*ck Polygon, utter shower of spineless **** the lot of 'em.

Manach

As a gamer and someone who knows history, I'm be more fascinated on how various self-appointed of cultural norms and new values are attempting to lock in what they perceive to be counter to their narrative by finding harmless frivolities like this, problematic. Very much neo-puritanical but without the same dress sense.

Rezident

Someone is offended by virtually everything nowadays, it doesn't mean anything anymore, if someone is 'offended'.

If you want to avoid offending anyone, then you would have to stop thinking.

dreamers75

Notorious wrote: »

People love to do an Irish accent while mentioning potatoes and leprechauns; that’s racist.

Are you confusing stereotyping and racism? Saying "potayto" in a mock irish accent is not racist.

Potential-Monke

You can't be racist against the Irish anyway. We don't take it seriously. We still call the Garda vans Paddy Wagons, a slang term the Brits invented for the van that brought drunk irish people to the station. We even have Paddy wagon tours!

It's the flower generation, people will get offended at anything. I ignore them. I'm not going to waste time or energy entertaining someones perceived offensiveness. Lifes too short, move on to the next meme.

I'll be honest, I haven't even seen that video, and i won't watch it. It doesn't interest me.

Shiminay

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You can't be racist against the Irish anyway.

That's a profoundly silly statement It's only 40 years since English folk hung signs on their doors saying "No Blacks No Dogs No Irish" and just because we've got white skin, it doesn't make us immune to being subjected to bigotry.

I'll agree there's a tenuous argument to be made suggesting Irish people are a "race" as that's a whole other argument about genetic distinction and so on - one I don't personally have enough knowledge on to make any sort of argument one way or the other. But if one considers race a social construct rather than a genetic one, then it's a very different argument (not one I completely subscribe to, but I think it's also worthy of mention in any conversation about race).

But in the same way that Shadow mentions his frustration at dodgy Russian accents and the universal hatred most Irish people have for that "stage Irish" accent proliferated by Holywood (and YouTube eejits like our own Jack Septic Eye), I'll bet if you're from Uganda specifically or of African descent generally, you find this Knuckles thing as yet another case of white people pulling the piss out of you which has been going on for centuries and so you put it on the same pile as all the other injustices. That sounds very melodramatic, but one has to try and see it from the other side too - what white Europeans have done to so many African countries for so long is horrific and you can't blame African folk for seeing everything as an attack when that's all they've come to expect from white folk.

You don't have to be a racist person to fall into racist "traps" - it's the nature of institutional and/or "learned" behaviours. It's not that long, for example, that the world has started to acknowledge and cut out terms others find derogatory and demeaning because we're trying not to be shtty people to one another and the internet has broken down so many borders where now we get to put a face to the previously unknown "other." So we cut out words like n*gger, f*ggot, jap, etc because we now realise that this not only offends but diminishes people to label them in such a way.

super_furry makes a great point - it may not have started as a racial thing, but you can be damn sure that the multitudes of internet racists and nazis will co-opt is as a chance to get their little chub on.

tl;dr: I think it's kinda racist and it's pretty dumb

Happy Black History Month folks

Rob2D

Robert ninja wrote: »

Polygon isn't an authority on what is/isn't racist/offensive.

Polygon aren't an authority on anything.

Klinkhammer

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

It's just sound. If I mimic a French accent as an Irish white person is that racism?

I bet you don't though.

I'm sure most Irish people aren't impressed when the Brits do the "tick paddy" accent. It's the same thing.

YouSavedMyLife

Klinkhammer wrote: »

I bet you don't though.

I'm sure most Irish people aren't impressed when the Brits do the "tick paddy" accent. It's the same thing.

Bet I don't what? Mimic a French accent? I just did one as I was typing this. Or does it only count if there is a French person present to be offended? I bet someone in the UK is doing a thick paddy accent right now...

I'm beyond all this. Choose what you should be offended by rather than thinking that you should be offended by something because it's "who or what you are" Or choose to not be offended by anything? Remove your ego, realise what makes you who you are is not your nationality, career title, skin colour or any other label people use to identify themselves as. Then none of this is offensive and none of it matters.

Klinkhammer

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

Bet I don't what? Mimic a French accent? I just did one as I was typing this. Or does it only count if there is a French person present to be offended? I bet someone in the UK is doing a thick paddy accent right now...

I'm beyond all this. Choose what you should be offended by rather than thinking that you should be offended by something because it's "who or what you are" Or choose to not be offended by anything? Remove your ego, realise what makes you who you are is not your nationality, career title, skin colour or any other label people use to identify themselves as. Then none of this is offensive and none of it matters.

Good advice. The irony is that you're more worked up about it than most I'd imagine.

Robert ninja

Shiminay wrote: »

super_furry makes a great point - it may not have started as a racial thing, but you can be damn sure that the multitudes of internet racists and nazis will co-opt is as a chance to get their little chub on.

More like you can be damn sure that the media will say that's what is happening about anything they don't like or understand.

Shiminay

Well, unfortunately, you're not wrong there. Everyone wants to break the "story" of the next Pepe or whatever. :rolleyes:

Notorious

dreamers75 wrote: »

Are you confusing stereotyping and racism? Saying "potayto" in a mock irish accent is not racist.

Nope, no confusion. Some sterotyping can be seen to be racist.

Dyr

Small doses of stuff like this is a good inoculation program against perpetually offended hysterics

Saruhashi

DredFX wrote: »

Was wondering what Irish gamers thought of this.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the main reasons this went viral is that the people spreading it know that the likes of Polygon and Kotaku are going to have a predictable reaction to it.

Something like this doesn't blow up because people want to express a deep hatred of Ugandans it blows up because people know it's a bit naughty and they can get away with it while laughing at the likes of Polygon getting into a tizzy over the whole thing.

I have a tough time believing that hardcore US-based far right political groups are rushing to VR Chat to shout "you don know de way" down their microphones in order to further some political agenda. Or even that they could somehow use this to their advantage.

More like kids having a laugh because they are pushing boundaries and engaging in behavior that's a little bit taboo but ultimately harmless.

Saruhashi

super_furry wrote: »

There's actually a really good piece about it on Polygon here https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/2/16951684/ugandan-knuckles-pepe-frog-meme-vrchat It's not saying that it's racist only that it has the potential to be co-opted by those looking to troll and make racist statements. It makes the point that it hasn't reached Pepe levels of racist use and is actually a really well written piece on the evolution and organic growth of memes and internet culture.

The potential problem I can see here is that you are opening the door for trolls to completely take the piss with this idea that anything can become a "hate symbol" if enough people push it hard enough.

Given how quickly the Pepe thing went from "harmless meme" to "symbol of hate" and how much of that was driven by people who aren't American and aren't racist but ARE interested in trolling, I see no reason why this wouldn't happen over and over again with all kinds of different things.

We could even take a small indie game and make an obscure connection to the alt-right and if it gets pushed hard enough by enough people you have "Game X is making money by pandering to the alt-right" articles all over the place.

The mainstream aren't just feeding the trolls. They are putting on an all you can eat buffet and advertising it all over the world.

wes

Is this like Pepe the Frog, something that wasn't inherently racist, until a bunch of alt right Neo Nazi's highjacked it? Seems to be the case here.

challengemaster

Fúcking snowflake generation needs to stop getting offended over everything these days. They do not know de wei

Potential-Monke

Shiminay wrote: »

That's a profoundly silly statement It's only 40 years since English folk hung signs on their doors saying "No Blacks No Dogs No Irish" and just because we've got white skin, it doesn't make us immune to being subjected to bigotry.

It was a throwaway comment, and one that is used quite often by Irish people, for the simple reason that, in general, we don't get offended by much. What's the point? There's enough actual racism out there to not get wound up by silly comments or stupid memes. It's the internet, everyone will find something offensive on it (except me, i find offensive stuff funny, but I have a very dark, black humour).

I really don't care what happened up the north 100 years ago, nor do i care what happened in other countries. This life is too short and the world is too sheit to be getting upset over words and pictures when it's not directly aimed at you. But i'm not condoning standing on a pedestal and being 100% racist. That's just common sense not to do that. And there's plenty out there to get offended on my behalf, so i don't have to.

Live your life the way you want, but don't get caught up in faux outrage over a meme taken out of context. Likewise, don't hate all Brits because you're Irish and you have to. Treat everyone the way you would like to be treated, and you will live a happy enough life.

I'm over racism, sexism, etc, I treat people like people, and unless something directly affects me, dilligaf. Too many good games out there to be getting caught up in a social media outrage over pixels and words that are just not offensive unless you* decide to find some. Again, enough rights groups out there to do all this for me. I'll sit here, play my games, watch my tv shows and not bother anyone, and do my best not to get bothered by anyone.

*You, as in people in general

Moist Bread

Remember all the memes from 4chan 10+ years ago? They were pretty wholesome. I cannot believe the internet has become so vile lately! It must be stopped somehow.

DredFX

Moist Bread wrote: »

Remember all the memes from 4chan 10+ years ago? They were pretty wholesome. I cannot believe the internet has become so vile lately!

4chan 10 years ago could be pretty brutal too...

...but still pretty hilarious!

Skerries

jaxxx