Why should taxis be allowed to use bus lanes?

BowSideChamp

Taxis are not efficient forms of transport. They take up too much space and effectively 1 person in a taxi will hold up 100 bus passgengers. But most of time the taxis are empty and the driver just in the bus lane wasting space and public transport users time.

The city is choked and it is time to restrict bus lanes for buses, cyclists and emergency vehicles only.

BowWow

I'm just going to sit down with my popcorn...

XPS_Zero

As to Taxis is there not a rule that they have to have people in them to use the lane? I'd have to hear from Bus Drivers as to how much of a disruption they are as they are the ones who would know?

Cyclists ...and I say this as one...are an utter pain in the bo----x in bus lanes.
This is why there should be a cycle lane separate where possible, ideally physically separated from the road so drivers don't weave in and out of it
The amount of times I've been on a bus and the bus has to slow to a persecuted crawl because it can't overtake someone is unreal. I've been in that situation myself and I always try, if I see a bus behind me, slide up onto the path for a few seconds to let them overtake me, if there is the room*. I've literally never seen anyone else do this though, the attitude seems to be "meh - I'M getting where I need to go" or worse yet the earphones are in blaring, and they are totally unaware there is a giant 46A behind them struggling to get through that can't risk overtaking them lest it turn them to mush.
I'd actually make a rule saying if there is a cycle lane there you're banned from the bus lane, you would think if there is a cycle lane, why would someone be using any other part of the road? WHY INDEED! :rolleyes:





*yes, i know they can't do this if there is no room - experience on boards and social media has told me I sadly need this disclaimer or someone will come along pointing it out in a tone that suggests I never considered it.

magicbastarder

XPS_Zero wrote: »

As to Taxis is there not a rule that they have to have people in them to use the lane?

there is not. they can us the bus lane if plying for trade, iirc.

as for the rant about cyclists, i just can't even

tabbey

magicbastarder wrote: »

there is not. they can us the bus lane if plying for trade, iirc.

Only if the meter is running.

Either it is carrying a passenger,
or it is on the way to pick up a passenger and the meter has been started.

Spanish Eyes

No problem with them using the buslanes with passengers on board, but looking for fares and stopping here there and everwhere and blocking other modes is just not on.

Spanish Eyes

tabbey wrote: »

Only if the meter is running.

Either it is carrying a passenger,
or it is on the way to pick up a passenger and the meter has been started.

On the way to pick up a passenger? How is that monitored. Oh yes the meter has been started, but I reckon that would be started when they see the blue lights.

Sorry to be such a cynic now.

magicbastarder

btw, we had this two months ago:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105549764

uck51js9zml2yt

magicbastarder wrote: »

btw, we had this two months ago:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105549764

There's nothing like a good taxi/bike/pedestrian/ bus/mass * thread.



* Delete as appropriate!

magicbastarder

Gabriel Puny Groceries wrote: »

There's nothing like a good taxi/bike/pedestrian/ bus/mass * thread.

i like to think mine was a classic of the genre. definitive, even, were i to be so bold.

n97 mini

IMHO, any car with 3+ people on board should be allowed use the bus lanes, which really should be renamed HOV lanes. And a taxi licence should cost €100.

Empty taxis or taxis with only one passenger on board using bus lanes is really a sop to the taxi industry, and a product of the €5k licence fee. Welcome to Ireland.

LeinsterDub

XPS_Zero wrote: »

?

Cyclists ...and I say this as one...are an utter pain in the bo----x in bus lanes.
it.

Cyclist aren't in general an issue in the city centre as they are on average moving faster than buses, in the suburbs there is enough space to over take.

Losty Dublin

n97 mini wrote: »

And a taxi licence should cost €100.

You'll be pleased to know that it's currently only €170 for one

Mr.Frame

tabbey wrote: »

Only if the meter is running.

Either it is carrying a passenger,
or it is on the way to pick up a passenger and the meter has been started.

Why would the meter be "started" if there are no passengers in the car?

loyatemu

n97 mini wrote: »

IMHO, any car with 3+ people on board should be allowed use the bus lanes, which really should be renamed HOV lanes. And a taxi licence should cost €100.

that would slow down the buses which is an issue if you're trying to get people out of their cars.

Also enforcement would be a problem - people already abuse the bus lanes and rarely get pulled for it. AFAIK the HOV lanes in the US are generally physically separate from the general traffic lanes, not just marked with a white line.

Danjamin1

magicbastarder wrote: »

there is not. they can us the bus lane if plying for trade, iirc.

as for the rant about cyclists, i just can't even

It's ok though, they're a cyclist too :rolleyes:

Amazing how quickly the conversation went that way.

Danjamin1

Dunno if anyone else has noticed but the biggest issue I see in bus lanes around Dublin is queues of private cars.

Wishbone Ash

XPS_Zero wrote: »

....Cyclists ...and I say this as one...are an utter pain in the bo----x in bus lanes.
This is why there should be a cycle lane separate where possible, ideally physically separated from the road so drivers don't weave in and out of it
The amount of times I've been on a bus and the bus has to slow to a persecuted crawl because it can't overtake someone is unreal.....

We really need a giant 'rolleyes' for posts like that.

You blame cyclists for delaying a bus yet appear to be totally oblivious to the real cause of the delay - private vehicles congesting the other lane preventing the bus from overtaking. If they weren't there we wouldn't need bus lanes. How did you manage before we had bus lanes when the buses had to queue with private vehicles?

cython

tabbey wrote: »

Only if the meter is running.

Either it is carrying a passenger,
or it is on the way to pick up a passenger and the meter has been started.

Wrong. As was already quoted, plying for hire is also allowable use of bus lanes, i.e. looking to be flagged down. So basically they can use them any time they are working unless they are delivering a package.

magicbastarder

worth noting that when i use a bus, i usually sit up the front on the top deck, if the seat is free. so i often have a good view of the road ahead - and i don't regard cyclists holding up buses as a problem that needs fixing - sure, occasionally a bus does get caught behind a cyclist but it's a rare cyclist who will sit in front of a bus like that if there's a more sensible option available to them.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I always try, if I see a bus behind me, slide up onto the path for a few seconds to let them overtake me,

assuming you mean a footpath - you are breaking the law in doing so.

LeinsterDub

magicbastarder wrote: »

assuming you mean a footpath - you are breaking the law in doing so.

Only if they are cycling without due care.

magicbastarder

13. (1) Subject to sub-articles (2) and (3), a vehicle shall not be driven along or across a footway.


(2) Sub-article (1) does not apply to a vehicle being driven for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the footway.


(3) A reference in sub-article (1) to driving along or across a footway, includes s reference to driving wholly or partly along or across a footway.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print
also, from the same act:

(5) A reference to a vehicle in these Regulations shall, unless otherwise specified, mean a mechanically propelled vehicle (other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair) and a pedal cycle.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

iba

Before stopping taxis from using bus lanes, cars should be stopped. I see many many cars every single day using bus lanes. I beleive they do it because they get away with it.

Second, delivery trucks pulling up in bus lanes (even on double yellow lines) switching on what I term their diplomatic lights and carry on with their business. Again I see this every single day.

I don't know if the guards have been told to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing or they are just blind and dont see it.

07Lapierre

I read recently that FF suggested that electric cars (not hybrids) should be allowed use bus lanes!

They’ll do anything except the obvious...Ban private cars from the city center.

sharper

magicbastarder wrote: »

worth noting that when i use a bus, i usually sit up the front on the top deck, if the seat is free. so i often have a good view of the road ahead - and i don't regard cyclists holding up buses as a problem that needs fixing - sure, occasionally a bus does get caught behind a cyclist but it's a rare cyclist who will sit in front of a bus like that if there's a more sensible option available to them.

I think this all depends heavily on your route. If you use a bus that uses the chapelizod bypass in the evenings then cyclists are definitely an issue. In winter time the bus sails on through but even now the evenings are bright enough that people are back cycling and the bus can easily end up stuck at cycling speed the whole way.

Some cyclists definitely do make an effort to get out of the way but many do not. I appreciate getting out of the way isn't easy either but you can have two or three full busses queued up behind them.

In terms of prioritising the most users on the road that's definitely one limited area where a very small number of cyclists impact a very large number of bus users.

LeinsterDub

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print
also, from the same act:

Sorry I always get this confused . Was thinking of this

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cyclists-who-use-footpaths-will-not-be-fined-31342974.html

Carlos Orange

Presumably because they are a form of public transport.

Efficiency comes in a lot of dimensions. It is more efficient to have people using taxis than owning cars or using their own car for a trip.

Wishbone Ash

sharper wrote: »

...Some cyclists definitely do make an effort to get out of the way but many do not....

I would take exception to the phrase 'get out of the way'. Cyclists are not second class road users and should not have to get out of anyone's way. It's a shared lane and cyclists are perfectly entitled to be there. The bus driver is free to use the other lane, not just a bus lane.

If you suggest that the other lane is congested then, (a) the bus lane vehicles will move along more quickly otherwise the bus driver will have entered the other lane and (b) it's the other private vehicles which are delaying the bus - not the cyclists.

07Lapierre

Its torture out there!

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/02/02/un-confirm-dublin-city-centre-traffic-officially-a-form-of-torture/

magicbastarder

psinno wrote: »

Efficiency comes in a lot of dimensions. It is more efficient to have people using taxis than owning cars or using their own car for a trip.

how? if i want to drive from my house to visit a friend, what about a taxi is more efficient than me driving myself?
i get that a trip into the city centre in a taxi means there won't be a need to park my car, but that and any other argument i hear have yet to convince me that using bus lanes should be welcomed.

bigar

sharper wrote: »

I think this all depends heavily on your route. If you use a bus that uses the chapelizod bypass in the evenings then cyclists are definitely an issue. In winter time the bus sails on through but even now the evenings are bright enough that people are back cycling and the bus can easily end up stuck at cycling speed the whole way.
.

But why does the bus not just overtake the bicycle?

StreetLight

bigar wrote: »

But why does the bus not just overtake the bicycle?

Because the adjacent general traffic lane is stuffed full of cars and the width of the bus lane cannot accommodate both a cyclist and bus.

Seve OB

tabbey wrote: »

Only if the meter is running.

Either it is carrying a passenger,
or it is on the way to pick up a passenger and the meter has been started.

Haha, there is so much wrong with this silly Ill informed statement

Hack12

There is a number of things

1. Taxis are allowed for the quick flow of people around the city and they are metered so the customer would be punished.
2. Cyclists are not allowed used all bus lanes which they think they can. They can only use ones where a broken white line is. Take the N11 cycle lane. The majority of the cycle lane is a solid white line aka you do not have permission to break it. It is never enforced but it is the rule of the road.
3. The city needs taxis for business and pleasure alike. People arriving into Dublin Airport etc for either.
4. A taxi licence is E150 but must be Wheel Chair or you can buy one for a standard car of an existing owner. The NTA are not issuing standard taxi licences for close on 10 years now.

cython

Hack12 wrote: »

There is a number of things

1. Taxis are allowed for the quick flow of people around the city and they are metered so the customer would be punished.
2. Cyclists are not allowed used all bus lanes which they think they can. They can only use ones where a broken white line is. Take the N11 cycle lane. The majority of the cycle lane is a solid white line aka you do not have permission to break it. It is never enforced but it is the rule of the road.
3. The city needs taxis for business and pleasure alike. People arriving into Dublin Airport etc for either.
4. A taxi licence is E150 but must be Wheel Chair or you can buy one for a standard car of an existing owner. The NTA are not issuing standard taxi licences for close on 10 years now.

RE the bolded, are you suggesting that a cyclist may not use a bus lane if there is a "mandatory" cycle lane within same? If so, then please re-read the legislation, as you have misunderstood it. The only relevance of the term mandatory in the context of cycle tracks is that drivers must observe it and stay off it. There is no mandatory usage of cycle tracks since 2012, and the road marking that delineates mandatory cycle tracks is not the same as all other solid lines, and thus does not impose the same restrictions on the users.

Quite literally, cyclists can use more bus lanes than taxis can, as they are permitted to use contra-flow ones as well, which taxis are not.

magicbastarder

Hack12 wrote: »

Take the N11 cycle lane. The majority of the cycle lane is a solid white line aka you do not have permission to break it. It is never enforced but it is the rule of the road.

please quote the legislation which supports this claim.

magicbastarder

Hack12 wrote: »

1. Taxis are allowed for the quick flow of people around the city and they are metered so the customer would be punished.

you've listed this as your number one point; so why should a car with 4 people in it not get priority over a taxi with a single paying customer?

Seve OB

Hack12 wrote: »

4. A taxi licence is E150 but must be Wheel Chair or you can buy one for a standard car of an existing owner. The NTA are not issuing standard taxi licences for close on 10 years now.

no you can’t

BowSideChamp

magicbastarder wrote: »

please quote the legislation which supports this claim.

You really don't know the road laws?

.—(1) A driver (other than a pedal cyclist) shall not drive wholly or partly along or across a cycle track.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

Wishbone Ash

BowSideChamp wrote: »

You really don't know the road laws?

.—(1) A driver (other than a pedal cyclist) shall not drive wholly or partly along or across a cycle track.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

That means that a cyclist is legally entitled to enter or leave the cycle track but a motor vehicle may not enter it.

The reason magicbastarder asked for the legislation is that Hack12 seems to be under the impression that a cyclist must stay in the cycle track if it has a continuous white line.

magicbastarder

that's not what i was getting at. the context of the quote i was posting seemed to be clearly implying that cyclists cannot leave the cycle lane; the idea of cars entering it was not relevant.

edit: or what Wishbone Ash mentioned.

sharper

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you suggest that the other lane is congested then, (a) the bus lane vehicles will move along more quickly otherwise the bus driver will have entered the other lane and (b) it's the other private vehicles which are delaying the bus - not the cyclists.

I think the idea that the bus should move out of the bus lane in order to proceed is kind of weird.

The chapelizod bypass was recently widened, my preference would have been for there to be a separate cycle lane and for that to be mandatory. There's almost enough room as is though poles etc are an issue. The lack of properly segregated cycle lanes is what weighs against me cycling myself, I don't want to have to deal with vehicles that crush me without noticing.

Stephen15

They should only be allowed In certain bus lanes that are not too busy. In bus lanes which are in the CC which serve multiple bus routes and are busy with buses almost all the time they very should not. Ideally in the city centre I would have cars banned and taxis using the former car lanes. They way only buses and emergency vehicles would in the bus lane.

In the suburbs such as out on QBCs I don't really see the harm as buses are not as likely to get caught in traffic as a result of other buses and taxis as most of these only serve one or frequent routes and are nowhere as busy as city centre. In the city centre the majority of private cars are taxis where as in the suburbs they are not the majority.

Also what about emergency vehicles that are not responding or transporting a patient to hospital. I know on the N11 there are lots of ambulances in the bus lane nearly as many as taxis returning from St.Vincents to the Loughlinstown ambulance station.

The Nutty M

Sure some of them super intelligent taxi drivers don't even know when the bus lanes are open to all road users. Many the time they start roaring abuse,its funny.
Sundays are usually the best time for the bright ones to come out.

bigar

sharper wrote: »

I think the idea that the bus should move out of the bus lane in order to proceed is kind of weird.

Not so weird, the alternative is that a bus needs to stay behind other buses at stops, vehicles unloading and illegally parked cars instead of passing these in the other lane. Not sure if this would be very effective.

John_Rambo

The Nutty M wrote: »

Sure some of them super intelligent taxi drivers don't even know when the bus lanes are open to all road users. Many the time they start roaring abuse,its funny.
Sundays are usually the best time for the bright ones to come out.

Ha! It is funny! I had an elderly indignant man admonish me whilst stopped at pedestrian lights for being in the bus lane. He was in his car beside me. I told him the bus lane was not in effect on Sunday's and he should pay more attention road signage and signals or he'll cause an accident. I could actually see the vein throbbing on his temple as he spluttered and coughed in disgust.

ED E

When taxis learn that using their phone while driving (in hand, not mounted) is illegal like the Bus drivers have managed let them in. Before then, jog on.

bigar

Weepsie wrote: »

Once had a taxi driver tell me I wasn't allowed in the bus lane (cycling) I was as it clearly marked a cycle lane.

I had the same. Funny thing that it was in the counter flow in front of Custom House. Guess who was not supposed to be in it (hint: it was not me)?

ted1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

XPS_Zero wrote: »

?

Cyclists ...and I say this as one...are an utter pain in the bo----x in bus lanes.
it.

Cyclist aren't in general an issue in the city centre as they are on average moving faster than buses, in the suburbs there is enough space to over take.

I do love a game of leap frog in the N11 , bus accelerated past cyclist. Bus pulls in, cyclist goes around bus. And repeat.

cbreeze

Was in the bus to work one morning and we got stuck behind a hare. Every time the bus tried to overtake it, the hare moved over to block the bus. This went on for nearly a mile until finally an oncoming car spooked the hare who did a sharp left into the ditch and our driver could speed up at last!