Landlord complaint to homeowner.

Donutz

So today I received a complaint from the neighbours next door through their landlord. We've had fairly substantial issues with both these neighbours and their landlord in recent times. This complaint is pretty farcical too.

Can anybody tell me if a landlord has any authority or obligation to deal with complaints made by their tennants towards neighbours in a privately owned house?

Grab All Association

Donutz wrote: »

So today I received a complaint from the neighbours next door through their landlord. We've had fairly substantial issues with both these neighbours and their landlord in recent times. This complaint is pretty farcical too.

Can anybody tell me if a landlord has any authority or obligation to deal with complaints made by their tennants towards neighbours in a privately owned house?

Can you elaborate more. Why are they complaining etc. If it was me I’d tell them to f**k off.

hawkelady

If the complaint isn't from your landlord I wouldn't take any notice of it.. Is it a noise complaint ??

Donutz

Grab All Association wrote:

Can you elaborate more. Why are they complaining etc. If it was me I’d tell them to f**k off.

I've installed CCTV (which these neighbours also have) and they have claimed to the landlord that I am pretty much spying on them. Offered to send him a screen grab of the cameras but he declined.

hawkelady wrote:

If the complaint isn't from your landlord I wouldn't take any notice of it.. Is it a noise complaint ??

The complaint is from the tennants next door. They complained to their landlord about us. We are homeowners so don't have a landlord.

hawkelady

If that's the case id tell them to f off,,,,,,,,,

hawkelady

By the way, did the landlord call into you or write a letter?? Love to know what it said?

jimmycrackcorm

Donutz wrote:

I've installed CCTV (which these neighbours also have) and they have claimed to the landlord that I am pretty much spying on them. Offered to send him a screen grab of the cameras but he declined.

What is it that they are expecting? Just reply that you aren't spying on anyone. Leave it at that.

wirelessdude01

Tell them to get a life.

punisher5112

You put in a complaint to RTB and also send registered letter to their LL if known. If not known you can put in a request with RTB.

If the CCTV does encroach on the next door property you can be made move it so it doesn't..

I understand this may not be the case.

What's their complaint??

h2005

Surely you've no obligation to even reply?

EmmaH1997

Like one of the people above I'd be inclined to tell them to feck off with that bs. But --- since you offered the screen grab of what the cameras are showing and the LL rejected it, what else can happen ? You offered to sort out their silly and hypocritical "fear" and that word is a stretch. You should be petty and say they're spying on you lol. either way the LL can deal with these pains. What more can you even do from here? Its not like anyone can kick you out of the house you own

Donutz

hawkelady wrote:

If that's the case id tell them to f off,,,,,,,,,

We've only just had an RTB hearing against this landlord for not dealing with complaints we've made to him. In that hearing he made an agreement in writing to deal with all complaints we make in writing within certain timeframes. Think he was scared the RTB were gonna throw the book at him. Seriously considering backing out of the agreement and sending it to tribunal now.

hawkelady wrote:

By the way, did the landlord call into you or write a letter?? Love to know what it said?

He sent a text, so I rang and explained that he was welcome to view a screen grab off CCTV. He didn't accept this so I felt to cover my own arse I'd get the Gardai to look at my CCTV which they did and logged on the pulse system that there was no issue.

I am annoyed at the landlord though that he thinks it's his business to investigate a complaint by his tennant towards me. I would have thought if the tennant had an issue, it would be the Gardai that they make a complaint to.

bmc58

What is the complaint against you ?A little more info would help.

hawkelady

Best thing you can do is give a big wave and smile at your neighbours every-time you see them and that goes for the landlord too. It'll drive them nuts.

Although they sound nuts already

punisher5112

Donutz wrote: »

We've only just had an RTB hearing against this landlord for not dealing with complaints we've made to him. In that hearing he made an agreement in writing to deal with all complaints we make in writing within certain timeframes. Think he was scared the RTB were gonna throw the book at him. Seriously considering backing out of the agreement and sending it to tribunal now.



He sent a text, so I rang and explained that he was welcome to view a screen grab off CCTV. He didn't accept this so I felt to cover my own arse I'd get the Gardai to look at my CCTV which they did and logged on the pulse system that there was no issue.

I am annoyed at the landlord though that he thinks it's his business to investigate a complaint by his tennant towards me. I would have thought if the tennant had an issue, it would be the Gardai that they make a complaint to.

He is actually doing the right thing as he has to cover himself and has onus on him to protect his property and tenants if they are being wronged.


Not saying they are as it sounds something is not right and they have a big issue with you.

Can you go into more detail about all issues and how they arise?
Have you turned it around and asked to see their footage and that it is encroachment of your private property and personal space.

The_Conductor

Donutz wrote: »

I've installed CCTV (which these neighbours also have) and they have claimed to the landlord that I am pretty much spying on them. Offered to send him a screen grab of the cameras but he declined.

The complaint is from the tennants next door. They complained to their landlord about us. We are homeowners so don't have a landlord.

There is a specific exemption in the Data Protection Act for use of CCTV in a domestic setting- which includes the cctv that both the OP and their neighbours have. The impending GDPR- is a different kettle of fish (it comes in on the 25th of May)- however, as it stands- the OP legally is perfectly entitled to run a domestic cctv in the context which has been described.

Donutz

punisher5112 wrote:

He is actually doing the right thing as he has to cover himself and has onus on him to protect his property and tenants if they are being wronged.

I would argue that if the tennants have a problem, they should make a complaint to the Gardai. The landlord doesn't have any authority over us.

punisher5112 wrote:

Not saying they are as it sounds something is not right and they have a big issue with you.

We had an issue with them regarding anti social behaviour and felt our complaints weren't taken seriously. Therefore the RTB hearing and the landlords promise to act accordingly with our complaints. Now we think they are making an issue of this just to hassle us.

punisher5112 wrote:

Can you go into more detail about all issues and how they arise? Have you turned it around and asked to see their footage and that it is encroachment of your private property and personal space.

Fighting, kids throwing stones at our windows, running around our property in between our cars, damaging our property. Not bothered about their footage as I dont really care weather he is watching us or not (I don't think he is)

Donutz

The_Conductor wrote:

There is a specific exemption in the Data Protection Act for use of CCTV in a domestic setting- which includes the cctv that both the OP and their neighbours have. The impending GDPR- is a different kettle of fish (it comes in on the 25th of May)- however, as it stands- the OP legally is perfectly entitled to run a domestic cctv in the context which has been described.

So am I right in saying that their landlord has no business with contacting me over this.

hawkelady

Donutz wrote: »

So am I right in saying that their landlord has no business with contacting me over this.

100% tell him to take a hike

The_Conductor

Donutz wrote: »

So am I right in saying that their landlord has no business with contacting me over this.

Neighbours can always raise issues with one another- you don't have to hit each other the head with whats legal and whats not. Lots of people don't like being on CCTV systems- which in my mind is completely understandable. I'd suggest talking to the owner and coming to a mutually agreeable compromise. If they're not willing to compromise- in that case- ensure that what you are doing is 100% legal.

Donutz

hawkelady wrote:

100% tell him to take a hike

I actually rang him and told him that it wasn't his concern. He is adamant that it is and is gonna speak to his solicitor tomorrow to clarify this.

I'm annoyed with him that I've spent half the day on the phone to him and responding to his texts and diving down to the Garda station when all that was needed was for him to accept a screen grab of my phone. But according to him he is not "legally minded" so couldn't make a determination on weather the cameras broke some sort of privacy law or not.

I'd love to tell him to take a hike but I want to keep the relationship with him as pleasant as possible because it has been very strained with him over the last few months and it took an RTB hearing to remedy it.

The_Conductor

Donutz wrote: »

I actually rang him and told him that it wasn't his concern. He is adamant that it is and is gonna speak to his solicitor tomorrow to clarify this.

I'm annoyed with him that I've spent half the day on the phone to him and responding to his texts and diving down to the Garda station when all that was needed was for him to accept a screen grab of my phone. But according to him he is not "legally minded" so couldn't make a determination on weather the cameras broke some sort of privacy law or not.

I'd love to tell him to take a hike but I want to keep the relationship with him as pleasant as possible because it has been very strained with him over the last few months and it took an RTB hearing to remedy it.

Google data protection act ireland- and then 'cctv domestic exemption'.
If the guy wants to spend money on a solicitor- let him.

Donutz

The_Conductor wrote:

Neighbours can always raise issues with one another- you don't have to hit each other the head with whats legal and whats not. Lots of people don't like being on CCTV systems- which in my mind is completely understandable. I'd suggest talking to the owner and coming to a mutually agreeable compromise. If they're not willing to compromise- in that case- ensure that what you are doing is 100% legal.

I have shown the footage to the Gardai and the have logged on the pulse system that there is no issue.

Most of my annoyance is that the tennant is using the landlord to make a complaint when in fact if they had a real concern I would have imagined it would be a matter for the Gardai.

virgo69

The LL may have told the tenants to come to him with any problems especially if he is trying to keep to the RTB agreement. Would you approach the tenants or the LL if you had a problem?

Donutz

virgo69 wrote:

The LL may have told the tenants to come to him with any problems especially if he is trying to keep to the RTB agreement. Would you approach the tenants or the LL if you had a problem?

I just don't see how the landlord has any power to resolve the issue. Surely a complaint to the Gardai would have been more appropriate if the tennant had felt there was a real issue.

I get the feeling that the tennant is using the landlord to harrass and annoy us.

virgo69

As I said, the LL probably told them that he has an agreement and that he should be their first port of call. Honestly, would you rather him or them approaching you? At least this way there can be no "he said, she said".

virgo69

Can you ask the LL to communicate by email only?

hawkelady

Or just don't entertain the LL at all. Ignore him completely

virgo69

hawkelady wrote: »

Or just don't entertain the LL at all. Ignore him completely

Yeah but it might be beneficial to keep communication lines open.

doolox

Unless you are thinking of renting your house out in the future or doing something that requires planning or change of use where neighbouring owners might throw a spanner in the works with vexatious objections or complaints, I do not see you have anything to worry about.

You own your house.
You live in your house.
The landlord of next door has no power over you.

In the best tradition of Bob Geldof you have earned the right to tell him to phuque awf.......

Del2005

The_Conductor wrote: »

Google data protection act ireland- and then 'cctv domestic exemption'.
If the guy wants to spend money on a solicitor- let him.

Where does it say that you can record other people's or public property?

Domestic use of CCTV systems.
The processing of personal data kept by an individual and concerned solely with the management of his/her personal, family or household affairs or kept by an individual for recreational purposes is exempt from the provisions of the Acts. This exemption would generally apply to the use of CCTVs in a domestic environment. However, the exemption may not apply if the occupant works from home. [ Where the exemption does apply, a person who objects to the use of a CCTV system - for example, a neighbour who objects to images of her/his property being recorded - may be able to take a civil legal action based on the Constitutional and Common Law right to privacy.] It should be noted that recording of a public space, even partially, or when recording is directed outwards from the private setting, it may not be regarded as a ‘personal or household’ activity for the purposes of the Data Protection Acts, and this may have immediate and particular interest to drone operators and data controllers.



https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/m/242.htm

dr.fuzzenstein

Donutz wrote: »

We had an issue with them regarding anti social behaviour and felt our complaints weren't taken seriously. Therefore the RTB hearing and the landlords promise to act accordingly with our complaints. Now we think they are making an issue of this just to hassle us.



Fighting, kids throwing stones at our windows, running around our property in between our cars, damaging our property. Not bothered about their footage as I dont really care weather he is watching us or not (I don't think he is)

I think this is the elephant in the room.
You had an issue with the neighbours and made a complaint.
They are 100% dicking you around. And 2 houses don't train CCTV on each other if everything is hunky dory. It is the tell-tale sign of quite a serious issue between neighbours.
As for the landlord telling you he's not legal minded, the correct answer is "I have ensured that everything is legal. If you cannot accept that or lack the knowledge to make that determination for yourself, you should seek legal advise. In the meantime I don't see any point discussing this any further with you."
Be firm but friendly.

Dial Hard

Donutz wrote:

I just don't see how the landlord has any power to resolve the issue. Surely a complaint to the Gardai would have been more appropriate if the tennant had felt there was a real issue.

Tbh, I think going to the gardai would have been overkill. Personally, I think the "chain of command" for any issues renters have with their neighbours should be: approach direct -> landlord -> gardai/RTB but some tenants just go straight to the landlord with absolutely everything.

I don't really understand your animosity towards him, tbh. His tenants have come to him with an issue (spurious or otherwise) and he's trying to deal with it.

Donutz

virgo69 wrote:

As I said, the LL probably told them that he has an agreement and that he should be their first port of call. Honestly, would you rather him or them approaching you? At least this way there can be no "he said, she said".

I'd rather they take any complaint to Gardai. I suspect this is a ploy by the landlords tennants to harrass us and this is why they didn't make any complaint to Gardai.

virgo69 wrote:

Can you ask the LL to communicate by email only?

Most of our communication with the LL is by text message therefore there is a written record of it.

hawkelady wrote:

Or just don't entertain the LL at all. Ignore him completely

Can't really do this as his tennants have been anti social in the past and don't want to close communication lines with him in case we may need to contact him in future.

virgo69 wrote:

Yeah but it might be beneficial to keep communication lines open.

Hopefully so. In the past he hasn't treated our complaints seriously but after RTB hearing, we were hoping this would change.

virgo69

The op said there is anti social behaviour. I had the neighbours from hell next door, the LL knew nothing about it until I contacted her, it turned out the tenants were crazy in arrears, so the LL was able to use the info in her case with the RTB. When I approached the guards after one particular sh***y weekend, the first thing they asked me was had I contacted the LL. I did approach the tenants originally which resulted in used condoms being strewn across the windscreen of my car so there was no way I was going back there!!

Donutz

Dial Hard wrote:

I don't really understand your animosity towards him, tbh. His tenants have come to him with an issue (spurious or otherwise) and he's trying to deal with it.

We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.

virgo69

Donutz wrote: »

We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.

I think you are over thinking it tbh, would you rather him or them contacting you.

Donutz

virgo69 wrote:

I think you are over thinking it tbh, would you rather him or them contacting you.

Don't think I am. As far as I am aware, the Gardai gave the tennants some friendly advice not to approach or bother us. So I think they are using their LL for their own petty agenda.

Del2005

Donutz wrote: »

We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.

I'd say the landlord is more worried about the tenants taking him to the RTB than your camera. If he doesn't action their complaints then they will take an action and get a payout from the RTB.

virgo69

Donutz wrote: »

Don't think I am. As far as I am aware, the Gardai gave the tennants some friendly advice not to approach or bother us. So I think they are using their LL for their own petty agenda.

Hopefully he will be able to distinguish between petty and serious. I would log everything with the LL even if you are also contacting the Guards. I'd say he is trying to step up to the plate after the RTB slap on the wrists. Have to say I wouldn't like a cctv recording my comings and goings.

Donutz

Del2005 wrote:

I'd say the landlord is more worried about the tenants taking him to the RTB than your camera. If he doesn't action their complaints then they will take an action and get a payout from the RTB.

But I don't see what action he can take to deal with their complaint. And even when I offered to show him exactly what my cameras were looking at he insisted he couldn't make a judgement on weather or not they were looking on to his property so I had the bother of going to the Gardai and getting them to log on the pulse system that my cameras were perfectly fine. All that hassle over a grudge his tennant now bares over me.

virgo69 wrote:

Hopefully he will be able to distinguish between petty and serious. I would log everything with the LL even if you are also contacting the Guards. I'd say he is trying to step up to the plate after the RTB slap on the wrists. Have to say I wouldn't like a cctv recording my comings and goings.

Everything has been logged for the last couple of years but the landlord had pretty much assumed we were lying because the very first complaint we made about his tennants, he asked them and they said it never happened. He pretty much made up his mind then that any complaint we had were lies without ever investigating.

Regards the CCTV, it is not recording anybody's comings and goings only our own. The cameras are positioned to record the front back and side of our property and are not being used as spy cams as the tennants are suggesting.

virgo69

I wasn't referring to your cameras, i was referring the the tenants. Maybe he was going by the book with the legal advice, if so sure let him at it, he'll learn soon enough it's costly.

punisher5112

Donutz wrote: »

I would argue that if the tennants have a problem, they should make a complaint to the Gardai. The landlord doesn't have any authority over us.


We had an issue with them regarding anti social behaviour and felt our complaints weren't taken seriously. Therefore the RTB hearing and the landlords promise to act accordingly with our complaints. Now we think they are making an issue of this just to hassle us.



Fighting, kids throwing stones at our windows, running around our property in between our cars, damaging our property. Not bothered about their footage as I dont really care weather he is watching us or not (I don't think he is)

As I stated in my post I am not doubting you but a LL has an obligation to get involved in issues exactly like if you were the complainant.

Some choose not to others do.

It may well be he wants to keep these loonies sweet so he keep getting paid or they won't completely destroy his property.

Cut this idea that you have to answer his calls or spend half the day onto him at his level.


Bring the case to the RTB and record all anti social events as the onus is then on him to apply for them to leave through legal channels.

The council can also go down this route but you need to stop the contact.

Only through letter which should be registered or email.

Do not speak with the neighbours.

punisher5112

On the CCTV side stop offering to let him see or whatever you now let him fight for whatever he wants that he can't get.

I would suggest stop pandering to them and go RTB and if noises complain to the council.

Victor

doolox wrote: »

Unless you are thinking of renting your house out in the future or doing something that requires planning or change of use where neighbouring owners might throw a spanner in the works with vexatious objections or complaints

The planning system sees vexatious objections and complaints for what they are.

Mrs OBumble

Donutz wrote: »

I actually rang him and told him that it wasn't his concern. He is adamant that it is and is gonna speak to his solicitor tomorrow to clarify this.

I'm annoyed with him that I've spent half the day on the phone to him and responding to his texts and diving down to the Garda station when all that was needed was for him to accept a screen grab of my phone. But according to him he is not "legally minded" so couldn't make a determination on weather the cameras broke some sort of privacy law or not.

I'd be pretty firmly of the mind that you do need to deal with the owner of the neighbouring property (AKA the landlord) - rather than his tenants.

His tenants are complaining to him (yes, perhaps maliciously) that someone in the neighbourhood is causing problems with their enjoyment of their home. As a LL, that's 100% his problem and he needs to be seen to investigate it

I can see why he'd not take your offer of a screen grab seriously: way too easy for you to change the camera angle, take the screen shot and send it, and then change it back to pointing at the neighbour's house. Makes it meaningless.

I suspect you'd be a good deal more annoyed if there was ASB next door, and the LL was nowhere to be found

Seems very normal that LL would be the point of contact for them and he would make contact with you.

TBH you seem to have an issue with this despite it being very usual.

Donutz

Mrs OBumble wrote:

I can see why he'd not take your offer of a screen grab seriously: way too easy for you to change the camera angle, take the screen shot and send it, and then change it back to pointing at the neighbour's house. Makes it meaningless.

But I could do that anyway if he came to inspect it. Only trouble is I'd need to go up and down a ladder to change the angle.

Mrs OBumble wrote:

I suspect you'd be a good deal more annoyed if there was ASB next door, and the LL was nowhere to be found

That is exactly what's been happening for the last year. LL was dismissive of our concerns on the few occasions that he bothered to return our messages.
Fast forward to an RTB hearing, LL being extremely apologetic, and signing an agreement to fully investigate and respond in writing to any complaints we may have.

LionelNashe

Donutz wrote: »

So am I right in saying that their landlord has no business with contacting me over this.

He's fully entitled to contact you, about anything. Anyone is. You're fully entitled to ignore him.

virgo69

Donutz wrote: »

But I could do that anyway if he came to inspect it. Only trouble is I'd need to go up and down a ladder to change the angle.



That is exactly what's been happening for the last year. LL was dismissive of our concerns on the few occasions that he bothered to return our messages.
Fast forward to an RTB hearing, LL being extremely apologetic, and signing an agreement to fully investigate and respond in writing to any complaints we may have.

But do you not think it works both ways? He is doing the same for his tenants, he is hardly going to tell them to go to the gards with their complaints.

Donutz

Deleted User wrote:

Seems very normal that LL would be the point of contact for them and he would make contact with you.

But if I was up to no good (which I am not) what powers does the LL have over me to stop my behaviour? I would have imagined the Gardai would be more appropriate.

Deleted User wrote:

TBH you seem to have an issue with this despite it being very usual.

I wasn't aware it was usual. The reason I have an issue with this is because I believe the complaint was made to the LL so as to be a nuisance to me. I think the LL knows this but is treading lightly around his tennants for fear that he might mess up and open himself up to a case being brought against him by his tennants.