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Do I want an Endurance bike?
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I predict that this post will be no help at all, it will simply add to your tally of questions. With that in mind, are you willing to read it? (There, I've started already!).
I think you've seen NamelessPhil's audax bike, so the following might have some more relevance for you. I built that bike for her a few years back. I started out knowing that I wanted it to be a bike well suited to audax but what that actually means was hard to define. She already had a race-oriented RoseBikes aluminium road bike (they are another brand to consider, by the way, arguably they are today where Canyon were a few years back in terms of price versus value - they don't have the same reputation Canyon has, but then neither did Canyon back then), and it seemed that the limitations of that bike from an audax point of view where: it had race geometry, limited tyre clearance, no mudguard eyelets, no pannier rack eyelets, and the question of whether aluminium would be too harsh for looong (and multi-day) rides.
Some of this is very subjective but here are some of the decisions, and further questions, we ended up with:
* We ruled out aluminium. I wouldn't if I were in your shoes though as the reality is that the harshness of a frame is as much down to design, fit, etc., as the raw material. As an example, I've read great things written by some people about the Cannondale Synapse alu bike (another bike to consider perhaps?), the Canyon Ultimate AL (race bike), and the Bianchi Ultremo (race bike) too. It's a personal thing though, and some people don't like aluminium or will just never see it as anything other than a rigid material that gives good power transfer but will rattle you to bits. In sort, a good aluminium frame might be well suited to your needs.
We went with a titanium frame (with carbon forks) but bear in mind that titanium has a poor reputation too in terms of environmental impact, last time I read anything about it anyway.
* If you are using it for audax events, consider what the bike may be subjected to. NamelessPhil has had to transport her audax bike by boat, train, and bus at various times. And because she has typically been riding to and from events, she has ridden to the boat/train/bus and therefore the bike has never been packaged/boxed up in transit. It has picked up a few knocks along the way, with some minor damage and dings to the mudguards in particular. Personally I wouldn't want to subject a carbon frameset to the risk of stowing it in the hold of a bus (in particular) where the driver and other passengers are likely to be less concerned or informed of the need to be careful with it. Steel, titanium, and aluminium framesets can all be damaged too of course, but there is some less risk there.
* As the bike industry gives itself a hernia trying to introduce more and more categories of bike that we all "need", I struggle more and more to see a difference between many of them. I'd consider any bike labelled "cyclo-cross" as a valid candidate as an "endurance" bike. Of course, very race-oriented CX frames might be too aggressive for long hours in the saddle.
* Her dynamo hub has been essential for some of her events, so I'd recommend budgeting for a decent dynamo hub built into a decent rim. You can pay as little or as much for a dynamo hub these days as you like. Her one is a Son and it has been flawlessly reliable, but you don't need to budget for that to get a good one. And pair it with a decent pair of lights - a USB port is a good option too so that you can charge your phone on long events. Last time I checked there were not many lights that came with a USB port, NamelessPhil's is a B&M and she has been very happy with it but it's at the pricier end of the scale too.
* For audax you'll likely want mudguards. And because you won't want to have to wrestle with them at 2am on a cold wet night when you still have 100km to cover, you'll want the most robust and least fussy mudguards you can get. I have CrudRacers on my winter bike and I really like them, they'll fit on a wide range of bikes but I occasionally have to adjust them by hand a little mid-ride, and on even slightly gritty roads you end up with a bit of noise from grit sticking to the tyre and scraping off the mudguard - on a 4hr winter ride these are minor annoyances, but I reckon that on an 8hr+ audax event they would make me absolutely psychotic as I grew more tired and the wind picked up and home seemed further and further away. I appreciate that not everyone is as sensitive a soul as me though, but for the safety of your own mental health and the safety of those around you, get a frame with mudguard eyelets and fit decent "permanent" mudguards such as SKS.
* If you are doing multi-day events will you like/need a pannier rack? If so, look for a frame with eyelets for one. You can attach racks to seatpost or seatstays too of course, there are lots of options there, but for peace of mind it's hard to beat attaching a decent rack to solid and robust mount points that are built into the frame structure/design.
* If you are certain that 28mm is as wide as you want to go for tyres then that's an important choice made. NamelessPhil uses 25mm but her frame could take 28mm and her mudguards could too just about. Personally I think it's good to have the option. In terms of performance that's a topic of heated debate but some people consider 28mm as being the optimum mix of comfort, grip, and rolling resistance.
* Disc versus rim brakes. Daddy or chips. You mention disc so I assume that's your preference. Again, with audax in mind, you should consider in your choice how easy any brakes (disc or rim) are to adjust on the road. I put Avid BB7 on NamelessPhil's bike and while I don't ride that bike I can certainly say that from maintaining and servicing both her and my bikes that they are superior to the Hayes CX-Expert on my commute bike - as an example, you can adjust both pads in/out on the BB7 by hand (it's a bugger to do the inner/fix one by hand, admittedly, but do-able if you have strong thumbs and otherwise easy with a single torx key) so you could adjust for at least some cable slack on the side of the road without having to resort to undoing the cable bolt, pulling the cable, and re-doing bolt. That's a small benefit on a nice summer afternoon at the side of the road, but potentially the difference between sanity and a rage-induced murderous rampage in the middle of the night. (I should mention that I have anger issues that make me see things in a slightly different light to many people...)
* Just on the topic of Ultegra versus 105 as components, my personal experience is that Ultegra parts last longer. So I choose Ultegra every time for that reason, I never really care about the weight difference. (But that's for NamelessPhil's bikes, I use Campag for my own bikes
).
...but all that said, why do you want to do audax anyway, sure they're feckin' nuts that lot! :pac:0 -
I predict that this post will be no help at all, it will simply add to your tally of questions. With that in mind, are you willing to read it? (There, I've started already!).
I think you've seen NamelessPhil's audax bike, so the following might have some more relevance for you. I built that bike for her a few years back. I started out knowing that I wanted it to be a bike well suited to audax but what that actually means was hard to define. She already had a race-oriented RoseBikes aluminium road bike (they are another brand to consider, by the way, arguably they are today where Canyon were a few years back in terms of price versus value - they don't have the same reputation Canyon has, but then neither did Canyon back then), and it seemed that the limitations of that bike from an audax point of view where: it had race geometry, limited tyre clearance, no mudguard eyelets, no pannier rack eyelets, and the question of whether aluminium would be too harsh for looong (and multi-day) rides.
Some of this is very subjective but here are some of the decisions, and further questions, we ended up with:
* We ruled out aluminium. I wouldn't if I were in your shoes though as the reality is that the harshness of a frame is as much down to design, fit, etc., as the raw material. As an example, I've read great things written by some people about the Cannondale Synapse alu bike (another bike to consider perhaps?), the Canyon Ultimate AL (race bike), and the Bianchi Ultremo (race bike) too. It's a personal thing though, and some people don't like aluminium or will just never see it as anything other than a rigid material that gives good power transfer but will rattle you to bits. In sort, a good aluminium frame might be well suited to your needs.
We went with a titanium frame (with carbon forks) but bear in mind that titanium has a poor reputation too in terms of environmental impact, last time I read anything about it anyway.
* If you are using it for audax events, consider what the bike may be subjected to. NamelessPhil has had to transport her audax bike by boat, train, and bus at various times. And because she has typically been riding to and from events, she has ridden to the boat/train/bus and therefore the bike has never been packaged/boxed up in transit. It has picked up a few knocks along the way, with some minor damage and dings to the mudguards in particular. Personally I wouldn't want to subject a carbon frameset to the risk of stowing it in the hold of a bus (in particular) where the driver and other passengers are likely to be less concerned or informed of the need to be careful with it. Steel, titanium, and aluminium framesets can all be damaged too of course, but there is some less risk there.
* As the bike industry gives itself a hernia trying to introduce more and more categories of bike that we all "need", I struggle more and more to see a difference between many of them. I'd consider any bike labelled "cyclo-cross" as a valid candidate as an "endurance" bike. Of course, very race-oriented CX frames might be too aggressive for long hours in the saddle.
* Her dynamo hub has been essential for some of her events, so I'd recommend budgeting for a decent dynamo hub built into a decent rim. You can pay as little or as much for a dynamo hub these days as you like. Her one is a Son and it has been flawlessly reliable, but you don't need to budget for that to get a good one. And pair it with a decent pair of lights - a USB port is a good option too so that you can charge your phone on long events. Last time I checked there were not many lights that came with a USB port, NamelessPhil's is a B&M and she has been very happy with it but it's at the pricier end of the scale too.
* For audax you'll likely want mudguards. And because you won't want to have to wrestle with them at 2am on a cold wet night when you still have 100km to cover, you'll want the most robust and least fussy mudguards you can get. I have CrudRacers on my winter bike and I really like them, they'll fit on a wide range of bikes but I occasionally have to adjust them by hand a little mid-ride, and on even slightly gritty roads you end up with a bit of noise from grit sticking to the tyre and scraping off the mudguard - on a 4hr winter ride these are minor annoyances, but I reckon that on an 8hr+ audax event they would make me absolutely psychotic as I grew more tired and the wind picked up and home seemed further and further away. I appreciate that not everyone is as sensitive a soul as me though, but for the safety of your own mental health and the safety of those around you, get a frame with mudguard eyelets and fit decent "permanent" mudguards such as SKS.
* If you are doing multi-day events will you like/need a pannier rack? If so, look for a frame with eyelets for one. You can attach racks to seatpost or seatstays too of course, there are lots of options there, but for peace of mind it's hard to beat attaching a decent rack to solid and robust mount points that are built into the frame structure/design.
* If you are certain that 28mm is as wide as you want to go for tyres then that's an important choice made. NamelessPhil uses 25mm but her frame could take 28mm and her mudguards could too just about. Personally I think it's good to have the option. In terms of performance that's a topic of heated debate but some people consider 28mm as being the optimum mix of comfort, grip, and rolling resistance.
* Disc versus rim brakes. Daddy or chips. You mention disc so I assume that's your preference. Again, with audax in mind, you should consider in your choice how easy any brakes (disc or rim) are to adjust on the road. I put Avid BB7 on NamelessPhil's bike and while I don't ride that bike I can certainly say that from maintaining and servicing both her and my bikes that they are superior to the Hayes CX-Expert on my commute bike - as an example, you can adjust both pads in/out on the BB7 by hand (it's a bugger to do the inner/fix one by hand, admittedly, but do-able if you have strong thumbs and otherwise easy with a single torx key) so you could adjust for at least some cable slack on the side of the road without having to resort to undoing the cable bolt, pulling the cable, and re-doing bolt. That's a small benefit on a nice summer afternoon at the side of the road, but potentially the difference between sanity and a rage-induced murderous rampage in the middle of the night. (I should mention that I have anger issues that make me see things in a slightly different light to many people...)
* Just on the topic of Ultegra versus 105 as components, my personal experience is that Ultegra parts last longer. So I choose Ultegra every time for that reason, I never really care about the weight difference. (But that's for NamelessPhil's bikes, I use Campag for my own bikes ).
...but all that said, why do you want to do audax anyway, sure they're feckin' nuts that lot! :pac:
Yeah but anything over 200k is the Croix De Fer's gig.
The question I've been asking isn't what Endurance Bike it's if an endurance road bike is just too close in character to the Croix De Fer seeing as it's a replacement for my other bike which is a fairly aggressive road machine.
All things being equal I'll be doing a 200 on my also very aggressive and responsive (and noticeably lighter) singlespeed on Saturday.
Perhaps that will answer my question better.0 -
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