Presidents' club scandal. Does it surprise you?

Bambi985

Didn't see a thread on this anywhere and didn't fancy the wrath I'd inevitably face for posting it in a different forum, so thought I'd open the discussion here.

So the Presidents Club Charitable Trust in the UK has said it's going to disband in the wake of a pretty scandalous report in the FT about the widespread sexual harassment and gross behaviour towards 'hostesses' at a charitable dinner it held last week. You can read the report here, but the gist of it is that a big group of the country's richest and most powerful men attend this dinner every year in the name of charity, the FT sent a reporter under cover as one of the many hostesses sent to cater to this male-only event and the behaviour she witnessed was pretty grim and sordid by all accounts.

I read the article and thought "yeah, standard", went on to read the angry, vitriolic comments underneath and thought "yeah, standard", and the whole thing has just depressed the hell out of me because yes, Great Ormond Street have decided to not accept the donations and yeah, the club exists no more - but christ the denials, the "I saw nothing" statements and the subsequent "FCUK WOMEN/THE FT/ANYONE BUT THE ACTUAL MEN THEMSELVES"and repetitive whataboutery is just so formulaic at this stage.

To the point where I'm wondering, in these #metoo times, is the reporting of these things actually good for women's rights at all anymore? is it detrimental at this stage? And is this just the behaviour to be expected of rich powerful men at male-only events where the waitresses are hired specifically for their looks? Haven't we all been subjected to this treatment by some creep or another and just rolled our eyes and thought "ah, one of those pr1cks" and moved on?

Would love to hear some opinions.

meeeeh

In a way I am not surprised, it's behaviour I've seen before. But I am also surprised at stupidity and arrogance of organisers and attendees who weren't able to spot the potential pitfalls after all the other revelations last year.

I'm not a fan of single gender events and frankly I have no desire to be at all women events either. They are dated and attendees often act as complete morons regardless of gender. I have no problems with strip clubs where employees know exactly what they are getting into but to hire women to be hostesses and then let guests to treat them as something completely different. Sadly though it's not a behaviour limited only to rich and powerful. Anyone who saw behaviour of stag or holidaying groups in countries with cheaper alcohol and lower standard of living will know that disrespect of locals or employees is common regardless of income.

Me too has some problems, Margaret Attwood's criticism pointed to some dangers but I think it is pointing out behaviour that shouldn't be acceptable. As long we don't limit condemnation to gender or class.

miamee

It's not remotely surprising to me that in the upper echelons of British society, these men have either never heard of #metoo and anything that goes with it or had simply dismissed it as happening to 'other people'.
One can only presume that they thought they were exempt and had paid enough money for their event to be a 'closed shop' as such. I think I read the article in the Irish Times yesterday evening, it seems that all hostesses were required to sign an NDA on the way in that they were not given time to read nor were they given a copy of. The only reason this event and the shenanigans at it has come to light now is that some journalists went undercover as hostesses. That says to me that it was one of those well known but never spoken about 'secrets' and in light of the current climate, FT thought it would make a good story. I've no doubt there are many more such events being held at any given time though maybe with less high profile attendees.

Bambi985

The constant backs up of men and some women at the suggestion that this kind of gross self-entitled I'll-do-what-I-want behaviour is unacceptable and not the fault of any woman regardless of clothing or vaguely-worded disclaimers or the fact that they were hired for the looks is just borderline comical at this stage.

It's the same every single time. No matter the behaviour, no matter the witnesses, no matter the woman or the men involved - like these big fat top 5% rich lads are the types that many of said fellas would usually sneer at, and yet they're being defended, or at least viewed as less in the wrong than the woman who signed up for the job. It's bloody bizarre. What's so utterly objectionable to seeing a certain evidently scumbag and borderline criminal behaviour as scumbag and criminal? What's threatening about that?

B0jangles

Am I surprised that it happened?

Not in the least, unfortunately.

Am I surprised by the backlash against the women reporting it or complaining about similar treatment?

Not in the least; as we've seen from multiple threads on related topics here on boards, any discussion of sexual assault/ sexual harrassment quickly turns into an endless cycle of

- 'I (a man) was groped and I didn't complain, therefore these women complaining are whingers'.
- 'I've never seen any of this happen' therefore it doesn't happen and they are probably all liars).
- 'Did you report it to the police?' If not then you cannot mention it ever again.

and so on...

I don't actually think everyone who comments like the above is a complete and total arse; it's more that people like to be comfortable - being forced to accept that such experiences are commonplace makes them uncomfortable and the quickest way to make that feeling go away is to make the person telling you shut up about it.

kylith

B0jangles wrote: »

Am I surprised that it happened?

Not in the least, unfortunately.

Am I surprised by the backlash against the women reporting it or complaining about similar treatment?

Not in the least; as we've seen from multiple threads on related topics here on boards, any discussion of sexual assault/ sexual harrassment quickly turns into an endless cycle of

- 'I (a man) was groped and I didn't complain, therefore these women complaining are whingers'.
- 'I've never seen any of this happen' therefore it doesn't happen and they are probably all liars).
- 'Did you report it to the police?' If not then you cannot mention it ever again.

and so on...

Don't forget the 'What did those women expect to happen'

Isn't it depressing how unsurprised we all are?

LynnGrace

I heard it on the radio, on Monday, and read the FT article since. I felt sickened, totally sickened. And like you, OP, it just depressed the hell out of me. I don't even know where to begin.

Bambi985

kylith wrote: »

Isn't it depressing how unsurprised we all are?

The general gaslighting that goes on when a woman speaks out, no matter who she, is just so demoralising and makes me think if I was the victim of a serious sexual assault I'd say bloody nothing because who would want the wrath of these types on them? Never mind a more casual sexual assault which we've probably all experienced on a par with these women at the Presidents Club event.

Like people will actually bend over backwards and get involved in all sorts of mental gymnastics to prove that she was not, in fact, sexually assaulted or was in some way to blame (that "if you left your car door unlocked" metaphor, for fcuk sake) or she was provocative so what did she expect or "men get their asses groped too". I'm so weary of it.

Nothing about the reaction surprises me, sadly. One of the first reactions to the Harvey Wienstein scandal was to accuse the victims of allowing it to continue by not going to the police. The victims were actually being blamed for other women being victimized. Women who are victims will always be called liars and attention seekers, or complicit in their or others abuse, it's a pattern that never changes.

The reaction to the President's Club scandal in that thread is upsetting, and what's even worse is that they don't see what they're saying as in any way wrong, but 'realistic'.

Never assume that a man has bad intentions, because the vast majority don't. That's what we're told (rightly) again and again, and of course most of the time it's absolutely true.

Then as soon as something bad happens we're asked why we didn't expect it, and that wearing certain clothes/being in a certain place/working a certain job means that assault was inevitable and we shouldn't have been there if we expected it not to happen.

As always, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Triceratops Ballet

It doesn't surprise me at all, and the reaction in the comments sections and the AH thread doesn't surprise me at all, and the combination of those two is depressing as fúk.

solerina

When you hear that the ‘hostesses’ had to be young, tall and pretty you can guess that something not right is going to be going on. Disgusting but not at all surprising imo.

ancapailldorcha

It's pretty disgusting to be honest though it's heartening to see that the upper echelons of society aren't as capable of concealing this sort of surreptitious behaviour as they would have been years ago.

From the Economist:

Sneaking into the men-only event among the 130 hostesses ordered from an agency, they provided a horrifying insight into the young women’s experience. In exchange for pay of £150 ($215) and £25 towards a taxi home, the hostesses were required to wear black underwear to match the short black dresses they were given. Their phones were confiscated and their visits to the loo timed. Throughout the evening they were groped and invited up to guests’ bedrooms. One reveller exposed himself.

They were treated like cattle by the sounds of things. Absolutely appalling.

animaal

I wouldn't like my wife/daughter/girlfriend to have been treated in this way.

Unfortunately, I'm not terribly surprised by the behaviour. There's a saying - "The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see of his ass". Some people who are very successful/wealthy believe they can have whatever they want.

I also feel sorry for those who attended some/all of the event, behaved themselves, and have now been painted with the same brush.

Sonics2k

Bambi985 wrote: »

To the point where I'm wondering, in these #metoo times, is the reporting of these things actually good for women's rights at all anymore? is it detrimental at this stage? And is this just the behaviour to be expected of rich powerful men at male-only events where the waitresses are hired specifically for their looks? Haven't we all been subjected to this treatment by some creep or another and just rolled our eyes and thought "ah, one of those pr1cks" and moved on?

Would love to hear some opinions.

In my honest opinion, no I think these things should continue to be reported on. Whether it's a new incident or dates back absolute decades. It all needs to come out.

Without it the likes of Jimmy Saville, Bill Cosby and even the Church would still be looked on as bastions of goodness and love. Not the evil and vile things they are.

Now, I personally am not a fan of some random person on social media making a claim about someone unless they can prove it, but that doesn't mean the core concept of #metoo isn't still vital to us as a society.