Requirements for cyber security job?

bionett

Hey so i recently decided that i want to work in cyber security due to a great intrest in IT and coding etc , im currently 18 and havent started college yet. So heres the thing, my leaving cert might aswell be nonexistent, its terrible. (not making excuses but my school years were kinda ****ty for me). So basically i was wondering what courses i should do in college so i could find a job as a software engineer or security analyst mybe?

Worztron

CompTIA Security+

horgan_p

bionett wrote: »

Hey so i recently decided that i want to work in cyber security due to a great intrest in IT and coding etc , im currently 18 and havent started college yet. So heres the thing, my leaving cert might aswell be nonexistent, its terrible. (not making excuses but my school years were kinda ****ty for me). So basically i was wondering what courses i should do in college so i could find a job as a software engineer or security analyst mybe?

By "college" do you mean PLC (post leaving cert) course ?
If so there are plenty out there that will put you in a great spot to get a foot in the door in an IT outfit. It just means you'll spend a year or 2 possibly on service desk to earn your stripes before you'll get to the giddy heights of Security Analyst"

Worztron

horgan_p wrote: »

By "college" do you mean PLC (post leaving cert) course ?
If so there are plenty out there that will put you in a great spot to get a foot in the door in an IT outfit. It just means you'll spend a year or 2 possibly on service desk to earn your stripes before you'll get to the giddy heights of Security Analyst"

Hi horgan_p. By 'service desk', do you mean something like tech support (help desk jobs) over the phone?

horgan_p

Worztron wrote: »

Hi horgan_p. By 'service desk', do you mean something like tech support (help desk jobs) over the phone?

Yes I do.

Worztron

horgan_p wrote: »

Yes I do.

I see. A help desk job sounds awful.

horgan_p

Well with a crappy leaving cert, no college degree and no experience you are in take what you can get mode until you've proven your worth to an employer.

Its not nice and its a grind, but would any sysadmin worth his/her money leave an unknown quantity loose on the network that they are responsible for ?

Triceratops Ballet

Look into FIT, the new tech apprenticeship scheme. They have a Dev and cyber security track, it will cover all of your entry level certs and get you hands on experience in an actual security team

ballyargus

Bootcamp learning is a good way to go. Look for one that offers certification of some kind. College degrees are not the prerequisites that they once were for a good career.

You will have to display competency to get onto a programme though, usually some form of aptitude/appropriateness test

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

I see. A help desk job sounds awful.

Its not below anyone. A great way to learn some key skills, and identify and understand human behaviour, which is a key aspect of Cybersecurity.
I'd also suggest some of the CompTIA certs including A plus, Network plus, security plus, pentest plus and the EC course, but all of these are almost point less without some level of work experience in IT.

Worztron

kippy wrote: »

Its not below anyone. A great way to learn some key skills, and identify and understand human behaviour, which is a key aspect of Cybersecurity.
I'd also suggest some of the CompTIA certs including A plus, Network plus, security plus, pentest plus and the EC course, but all of these are almost point less without some level of work experience in IT.

Hi kippy. I never said it was - just not my cup of tea. BTW - what's 'EC course'?

RossieMan

Worztron wrote:

Hi kippy. I never said it was - just not my cup of tea. BTW - what's 'EC course'?

You aren't going to walk into your dream job. This is the real world, you've got to earn your title. It won't be handed to you on a plate.

You might need an attitude change if you want to continue down this line of work, dealing with other people is a massive part of it.

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

Hi kippy. I never said it was - just not my cup of tea. BTW - what's 'EC course'?

https://www.eccouncil.org/

- A helpdesk job sounds awful - sorry, I took that to mean that it wasn't for you.

Worztron

kippy wrote: »

https://www.eccouncil.org/

- A helpdesk job sounds awful - sorry, I took that to mean that it wasn't for you.

Thanks for the link. I did - but it could suit someone else fine.

Worztron

RossieMan wrote: »

You aren't going to walk into your dream job. This is the real world, you've got to earn your title. It won't be handed to you on a plate.

You might need an attitude change if you want to continue down this line of work, dealing with other people is a massive part of it.

I'm just being honest - a helpdesk job would be totally unsuited to me.

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

I'm just being honest - a helpdesk job would be totally unsuited to me.

Why so?

Worztron

kippy wrote: »

Why so?

That job would require excellent communication skills (a people person in otherwords) and that's just not me.

RossieMan

Worztron wrote:

That job would require excellent communication skills (a people person in otherwords) and that's just not me.

You are entering the wrong business then. If you can't talk to people you haven't a hope as any sort of developer.

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

That job would require excellent communication skills (a people person in otherwords) and that's just not me.

What job/area are you in at the minute?

Excellent communications skills are a major asset in absolutely ANY role but for some it's not as strongly required as others.

Eire Go Brach

Worztron wrote: »

I see. A help desk job sounds awful.

Your looking at it the wrong way. Imagine becoming a plumber or electrician by not doing an apprenticeship? You wouldn’t you would be a handyman.

Same in IT. You have to do study then the experience more study and get the job you want.

AndrewJRenko

Worztron wrote: »

That job would require excellent communication skills (a people person in otherwords) and that's just not me.

Communications skills can be easily learnt. You don't really need to be a 'people person'. You just need to be able to talk, write, listen, read.

Worztron

RossieMan wrote: »

You are entering the wrong business then. If you can't talk to people you haven't a hope as any sort of developer.

I can talk to people -- just not as well perhaps as would be required. What do you mean by 'developer'? I'm not a software programer.

Worztron

kippy wrote: »

What job/area are you in at the minute?

Excellent communications skills are a major asset in absolutely ANY role but for some it's not as strongly required as others.

I'd rather not say. Fair point there.

Worztron

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Communications skills can be easily learnt. You don't really need to be a 'people person'. You just need to be able to talk, write, listen, read.

All day social interaction is hell for an introvert like me. I find it exhausting.

Blazer

What's your maths like?
For IT you need a very logical mind. If you're crap at maths you're not going to be very good at IT.

Communication can be learned, I myself did several courses on it throughout the years which was provided by my Employer and while I just thought to myself more rubbish all of them stood to me.

Worztron

Blazer wrote: »

What's your maths like?
For IT you need a very logical mind. If you're crap at maths you're not going to be very good at IT.

It's good. I have a logical mind alright.

Blazer

Worztron wrote: »

It's good. I have a logical mind alright.

That's good. You will need that.
There are a lot of courses you can do to teach you these.
If you were in college you'd be open to graduate roles etc in companies but since you're not you need to find another way such as a online course or attend a college night course.

Cuddlesworth

Worztron wrote: »

I can talk to people -- just not as well perhaps as would be required. What do you mean by 'developer'? I'm not a software programer.

If your not interested in programming, then a helpdesk is the best start.

the whole year inn

Blazer wrote: »

What's your maths like?
For IT you need a very logical mind. If you're crap at maths you're not going to be very good at IT.

Communication can be learned, I myself did several courses on it throughout the years which was provided by my Employer and while I just thought to myself more rubbish all of them stood to me.

What math are you on about? I was terrible at maths and work in IT . Has not hindered me one bit.

kippy

the whole year inn wrote: »

What math are you on about? I was terrible at maths and work in IT . Has not hindered me one bit.

I'd agree with this strongly. Depending of course on the area but for support and infrastructure you definetly don't need to be above average in maths. I'd say the same for most of the security roles I've seen also.

Rattlehead_ie

You dont need math for IT and on previous posts helpdesk support is not below anyone and a great stepping stone. I started there and while it's tough its helped me where I've gotten to today.

Around the original post. It depends on the type of security you're looking at doing within IT. Hardware based....I.e Network, Firewalling or
Software/Cert based. I.e Server Client SSL, Certificate type security.

If hardware JNCIA or CCNA will be a good start. There are some course out there that touch on this PLC types and even some full time courses. Vendor certification is the way to go if you want to get into hardware. You may eventually even start to look at the software side as well.

If software as previously mentioned there are some Security+ course out there that would help but again understanding the basic fundamentals is a start.

AndrewJRenko

Worztron wrote: »

All day social interaction is hell for an introvert like me. I find it exhausting.

As an introvert who's worked in the IT industry for 30+ years, I know how it works. No-one mentioned 'all day social interaction'. There are many roles, including security, where most of the work is between you and your keyboard.



But yet, communication with others will be an essential part of the job, even if it only takes up a fairly small amount of time. It can be learnt.

Worztron

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If your not interested in programming, then a helpdesk is the best start.

Hi Cuddlesworth. I'd find the long duration of social interaction in a helpdesk job totally exhausting so that's out.

Worztron

So is a helpdesk job a must for getting on a path to all/most IT jobs?

horgan_p

Worztron wrote: »

So is a helpdesk job a must for getting on a path to all/most IT jobs?

No it isn't a must. It is where most people start. It is also where you will learn skills that will stay with you for all of your career.

I will say this though - I'm in IT since 1995 and all of the best people I've met have worked service desk jobs.

There is some bloody good advice on this thread. I would implore anyone that starts in IT to start on the service desk. Yes its a grind, yes you can meet some real p**cks. But you'll learn so much. You'll be a better IT Professional for it.

the_syco

Worztron wrote: »

That job would require excellent communication skills (a people person in otherwords) and that's just not me.

In that case, it'll be the perfect job for you; you'll get used to dealing with users.

Worztron wrote: »

So is a helpdesk job a must for getting on a path to all/most IT jobs?

Yeah. You'll also meet like minded people. And get money for certs.

Cuddlesworth

Worztron wrote: »

Hi Cuddlesworth. I'd find the long duration of social interaction in a helpdesk job totally exhausting so that's out.

What social interaction? People ring up with a problem, you listen, ask questions, categorise, rule out possibility's, fix it or route the ticket to the correct team. 99% of people don't ring help-desks to talk to people, they ring to get some support for their issues. You answer the call, exchange a few basic pleasantry's depending on the mood and then get to business. And the other support teams don't want a chat, they want a ticket that was handled well with the correct relevant information coming to them.

Christ I left that level of support a long time ago and my current role is still basically that job.

If you get a standard IT helpdesk job and your good at it, your curious and willing to learn, you will be moved on quickly in the current climate in most places. If you end up in a large scale helpdesk only environment, get the experience and move on.

the_syco

Worztron wrote: »

All day social interaction is hell for an introvert like me. I find it exhausting.

Don't go into IT if you want to plan on not dealing with people.

Be a rubbishman. You'll deal with very few people each day, and no-one will want to be near you whilst you're working.

Worztron

Sombre stuff: https://betanews.com/2019/05/09/security-professional-frustration

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

Sombre stuff: https://betanews.com/2019/05/09/security-professional-frustration

Meh, same challanges with any profession.

Blazer

the whole year inn wrote: »

What math are you on about? I was terrible at maths and work in IT . Has not hindered me one bit.

What do you work at in IT though?
Roles such as development require a very logical mind for programing etc
Generally people who are good are maths have logical minds hence for troubleshooting, writing code this is a huge advantage etc.
If you work at a helpdesk or desktop support etc then having maths isn't so important.
Now I don't mean genius level in matchs but someone who has passed maths leaving cert etc. You don't need algebra for fixing issues but 2+2=4 helps immensely

Worztron

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As an introvert who's worked in the IT industry for 30+ years, I know how it works. No-one mentioned 'all day social interaction'. There are many roles, including security, where most of the work is between you and your keyboard.

But yet, communication with others will be an essential part of the job, even if it only takes up a fairly small amount of time. It can be learnt.

Hi Andrew. Did you start in helpdesk? That's what I mean by 'all day social interaction'.

Worztron

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

What social interaction? People ring up with a problem, you listen, ask questions, categorise, rule out possibility's, fix it or route the ticket to the correct team. 99% of people don't ring help-desks to talk to people, they ring to get some support for their issues. You answer the call, exchange a few basic pleasantry's depending on the mood and then get to business. And the other support teams don't want a chat, they want a ticket that was handled well with the correct relevant information coming to them.

Christ I left that level of support a long time ago and my current role is still basically that job.

If you get a standard IT helpdesk job and your good at it, your curious and willing to learn, you will be moved on quickly in the current climate in most places. If you end up in a large scale helpdesk only environment, get the experience and move on.

I reiterate, lots of dealing with people would be awful for me. I'm an introvert and not the most social of people. I don't mind talking to people for a short while and then move on to some other tasks for the rest of the day.

Worztron

kippy wrote: »

Meh, same challanges with any profession.

Sounds flippant.

kippy

Worztron wrote: »

Sounds flippant.

Fair enough. Ask any person in any job who needs any level of a budget to improve or maintain things and they'll all tell you they could do with more.
And as for comlaining that the general staff/public aren't up to speer enough with phishing/general IT.....happy days. Will never be out of a job in that case.

horgan_p

Ok - this is getting off topic now.
If you want to start a new thread on introverts working in IT - have at it
If you want a thread entitled "I want to work in IT and get paid large wedges of cash without dealing with human beings" - knock yourself out