Boss Shouting & Work Issue

LegacyUser

Hi there,

So recently a work colleague of mine was let go for sexual harrassment claim. The company didn't fire him for months after many compliants of him saying a number of hugely insulting comments.

I have been working through lunch as we are unstaffed. Today my boss shouted in my face as things were a little behind but we need more more staff.

Any ideas what can be done here legally wise? The least I want is an apology but I want to also lodge a complaint but no sure where I can go for this.

Stheno

There's nothing illegal about shouting yes it's rude but not illegal

Perhaps you can air a grievance with HR?

jippo nolan

Shout back louder!

Oink

In a “normal” company with “normal” standards, HR would have a word with him and make sure it doesn’t happen again, and would follow up if needed.

But I’ve heard that not all HR departments work to the same standards. It might depend on the company, I don’t know.

davo2001

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

emo72

davo2001 wrote: »

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

There should never be any excuse for shouting. I'd say if an employee shouted at a manager it would become an issue very quick.

OnlyWayIsUp

davo2001 wrote: »

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

I can’t think of any occasion when it might be acceptable to shout at someone during work.

Maybe that’s just me though...

the sheriff is HERE

first off OP, you shouldn't be working threw YOUR break, it's the company's problem for being understaffed not yours.

On your boss, shouting at you, that's unacceptable, write down on paper now the shouting incident with your boss, dated and signed by you, keep a paper trail, now go to HR and keep a paper trail of that too.

was it you OP who made the complaint about your colleague? not that it should make a difference.

professore

User192 wrote: »

Hi there,

So recently a work colleague of mine was let go for sexual harrassment claim. The company didn't fire him for months after many compliants of him saying a number of hugely insulting comments.

I have been working through lunch as we are unstaffed. Today my boss shouted in my face as things were a little behind but we need more more staff.

Any ideas what can be done here legally wise? The least I want is an apology but I want to also lodge a complaint but no sure where I can go for this.

If it's a small company tell him to go **** himself and say you will no longer be working your breaks. If it's a large company go to HR.

Edit : not literally of course. Thought this was After Hours. Apologies.

Pero_Bueno

Your boss sounds like a pathetic bully OP, cannot believe some people on here find it acceptable.
Stand up to him and tell him in no uncertain terms that if he ever has a tantrum like that you'll report him
to HR.

Jimbob1977

Did the OP say that his/her boss is male?

Can't see any reference to their gender. But everyone is saying 'him'

The sacked person was male.

Junadl

davo2001 wrote: »

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

What are you talking about?! The person had to work through their lunch break and mentioned there is not enough staff. Whhhhy should they have to do that?! Of course the boss should not shout. Kick up the ass the boss needs.

_Brian

1. Start taking your breaks, don't take the piss, just regular breaks.
2. Ask for a private word with your manager, explain that you do not want to be shouted at again, no matter what the problem is/isnt. Explain if it happens again that you will be making a complaint regarding bullying.

the sheriff is HERE

_Brian wrote: »

2. Ask for a private word with your manager, explain that you do not want to be shouted at again, no matter what the problem is/isnt. Explain if it happens again that you will be making a complaint regarding bullying.

i wouldn't want a private word with the boss, if he shouted at me, straight over their head, and in writing, protect yourself OP.

_Brian

the sheriff is HERE wrote: »

i wouldn't want a private word with the boss, if he shouted at me, straight over their head, and in writing, protect yourself OP.

The resolution of nearly every problem should be tried locally first, if then you have to go up the food chain it makes you look more reasonable having tried first.
There are some instances this doesn’t work for, but this isn’t one.

Rezident

User192 wrote: »

Hi there,

So recently a work colleague of mine was let go for sexual harrassment claim. The company didn't fire him for months after many compliants of him saying a number of hugely insulting comments.

I have been working through lunch as we are unstaffed. Today my boss shouted in my face as things were a little behind but we need more more staff.

Any ideas what can be done here legally wise? The least I want is an apology but I want to also lodge a complaint but no sure where I can go for this.

Does your company have a policy on harrassment at work, treating people with dignity in the workplace, intimidation etc.? Most workplaces have craic like this these days, I'd be very surprised if they do not. Make your complaint on these grounds.

kurtainsider

davo2001 wrote: »

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

davo2001 - sorry to hear that you have such low self esteem that you think that it's ok for people to shout in your face. Most people would find that utterly unacceptable.

You see the dominant person shouts in the weaker persons face - never the other way round. By taking that abuse you are giving them licence to do it again next time they feel like it.

judeboy101

I've been shouted at plenty in jobs but can't think of one time where someone shouted in my face.

JCX BXC

There's shouting orders out loud, and then there's shouting in someones face, and there's a big difference between the two.

the sheriff is HERE

_Brian wrote: »

The resolution of nearly every problem should be tried locally first, if then you have to go up the food chain it makes you look more reasonable having tried first.
There are some instances this doesn’t work for, but this isn’t one.

i see your reasoning, and respectfully disagree, boss shouting at employee, should never be accepted, you are putting yourself in a awkward position by sitting down in 1 to 1, unless maybe you have someone to witness it with minutes taken.

as another poster said, if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was the employee shouting at the boss, you'd be getting your P45.

LegacyUser

User192 wrote: »

Hi there,

So recently a work colleague of mine was let go for sexual harrassment claim. The company didn't fire him for months after many compliants of him saying a number of hugely insulting comments.

I have been working through lunch as we are unstaffed. Today my boss shouted in my face as things were a little behind but we need more more staff.

Any ideas what can be done here legally wise? The least I want is an apology but I want to also lodge a complaint but no sure where I can go for this.

Do you work for a Small company ? Never ceases to amazes me how everyone automatically thinks you have a HR department or an iT department

ncmc

I agree with what _brian said, have a word with your boss and say that you understand everyone is under extra pressure, but it’s not acceptable for him/her to shout in your face. By all means, take a note of instances like this in case it ever needs to go further but hopefully it’s just a once off due to extra pressure at the moment. But let it be known to him/her that you won’t be spoken to in this manner. Draw a line in the sand now because of you let it go, he/she might think you’re a pushover. And take the breaks you’re entititled to, it’s amazing how quickly these things become the norm and before you know it, you’re expected to work without breaks/stay late as an expected standard.

mitresize5

one of my team members shouted at me in an office full of staff and used foul language

he was suspended with pay that day, issued with a written warning for gross misconduct and managed out of the business from there

If I had done the same to him I could have expected the same treatment.

its 2018, not 1958, we are not indentured to our employers. Its unacceptable.

From a managers view point I suggest you tell him in an firm but polite way its unacceptable.

His brain will immediately go into 'constructive dismal claim', 'bullying', etc ... mode and rightly so. He'll respect you more for it.

Wanderer2010

davo2001 wrote: »

Have we come to the point now that if someone is shouted at they feel like they have to go to HR?

Maybe you're not doing a good enough job OP?

Do we all have to be wrapped up in some sort of protective cotton blankets when we leave our houses incase the bad man / woman does something we don't like?

Awful reply. Have you ever been shouted at in the workplace? And felt the fear and humiliation that can come with it? Clearly not if you think you shouldn't take this seriously.

The OP is fully entitled to a safe working environment at all times, its the law and treating someone differently and singling them out is just not acceptable. The fact that the OP was alone as well is worrying because there are no witnesses. OP- I would make a note of the date and time of this incident and comment that you felt undermined and vulnerable. Then if your boss wants a word again and you fear the same treatment, demand a witness and explain you didn't appreciate their manner the last time.

If it continues, 100% lodge a formal complaint with HR and get your union rep involved if you have one. Good luck!

Wanderer2010

mitresize5 wrote: »

one of my team members shouted at me in an office full of staff and used foul language

he was suspended with pay that day, issued with a written warning for gross misconduct and managed out of the business from there

If I had done the same to him I could have expected the same treatment.

its 2018, not 1958, we are not indentured to our employers. Its unacceptable.

From a managers view point I suggest you tell him in an firm but polite way its unacceptable.

His brain will immediately go into 'constructive dismal claim', 'bullying', etc ... mode and rightly so. He'll respect you more for it.

If you had done the same to him? You woudnt be fired though for it would you?

mitresize5

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

If you had done the same to him? You woudnt be fired though for it would you?

It's a moot point as I wouldn't have done the same to him.

Fired or not my career in that business would be finished one way or the other. And correctly so

DeanAustin

While a manager shouldn’t shout at people, the boss is human too. They’re understaffed, perhaps the manager is being kicked around by their boss but given no extra resources to do the job properly. If it’s a habit or if it’s part of an ongoing pattern of behaviour then I’d look at a complaint. Otherwise, I’d speak to the manager directly.

The OP should also ask what the manager was shouting at them for. While not an acceptable method of communication, did the manager have a point?

I don’t agree with this tendency to run to HR at the first sign of trouble or incident. It creates an atmosphere of distrust and a culture of CYA at all costs.

kurtainsider

DeanAustin wrote: »

The OP should also ask what the manager was shouting at them for. While not an acceptable method of communication, did the manager have a point?

How about this: f**k him and f**k his reasons for shouting in your face.

DeanAustin

kurtainsider wrote: »

How about this: f**k him and f**k his reasons for shouting in your face.

Classy response.

How about this. Lets assume that the OP massively f**ked something up. That something is going to get the boss kicked around the place by his boss.

Lets assume the manager is under severe pressure coz he lost a team member in a sexual harassment case and he’s being expected to do the same with less. He’s also just had to sack that team member.

That’s a lot of stress to be under. Shouting at someone is not acceptable and if it’s a pattern of behaviour, it should be addressed.

However, if it’s a one off occurrence, if the OP f**ked something up then I’d be looking myself in the mirror as much as anything if I was in the OP’s shoes. Jesus are we all so soft that we can’t allow our co-workers to be human and take a bit of a bollocking without rushing off to hide behind HR?

kurtainsider

DeanAustin wrote: »

Classy response.

How about this. Lets assume that the OP massively f**ked something up. That something is going to get the boss kicked around the place by his boss.

Lets assume the manager is under severe pressure coz he lost a team member in a sexual harassment case and he’s being expected to do the same with less. He’s also just had to sack that team member.

That’s a lot of stress to be under. Shouting at someone is not acceptable and if it’s a pattern of behaviour, it should be addressed.

However, if it’s a one off occurrence, if the OP f**ked something up then I’d be looking myself in the mirror as much as anything if I was in the OP’s shoes. Jesus are we all so soft that we can’t allow our co-workers to be human and take a bit of a bollocking without rushing off to hide behind HR?

You're really throwing some good ideas out there aren't you? Why don't you write a play or something? Perhaps the boss had just come up with a cure for cancer that also closes the hole in the ozone layer and the employee deleted it by downloading some memes off the internet...... and during working hours too!! Actually this making up a whole story around a couple of vague facts is fun isn't it? Go on - your go now.

DeanAustin

kurtainsider wrote: »

You're really throwing some good ideas out there aren't you? Why don't you write a play or something? Perhaps the boss had just come up with a cure for cancer that also closes the hole in the ozone layer and the employee deleted it by downloading some memes off the internet...... and during working hours too!! Actually this making up a whole story around a couple of vague facts is fun isn't it? Go on - your go now.

Woooosh.

I’ve exaggerated what’s likely true to make a point.

The point I’m making is this. Managers are people too. They have stresses and problems that employees don’t see. Sometimes they’ll react like they’re human. It’s not right but if it’s an isolated incident, running off all offended to HR is just a gutless act.

To flip this, as a manager, you’re always taught that if an employee starts underperforming out of the blue, you try to understand what’s causing the problem. It could be that he can’t pay the mortgage, the wife is cheating on him, one of the kids is sick. You always try to find out what’s going on because, best will in the world, personal problems can influence professional behaviour. I’m sure as an employee, you’d like your manager to take that approach if you had problems.

Now, I know the relationship here is different but in my view, if this is an isolated incident and out of character, the OP is better served talking to his manager rather than running off to HR.

doolox

... if you are confronting the shouter in private about the shouting episode.

Loud, mouthy individuals can become violent and nasty when confronted by people who won't take nonsense and want to vindicate their rights to a peaceful and harmonious workplace.

I have had bitter experience from both sides of the fence due to a life long curse of high functioning autism.

I was warned for shouting and being abusive to fellow members of staff. I had to take anger management counselling to avoid further outbreaks.

I also on another occasion confronted a senior staff member for shouting at me and was lucky not to be hit in reply. Always have a colleague to act as witness and keep the bully from doing something more serious. Because the staff member was more qualified and more useful to the company than I no action was taken on foot of the incident, how I wish I had a witness......

NinetyTwoTeam

Lol so many typical Irish responses, I swear we we're bred to be subservient and think we all deserve and should even enjoy a 'regular bollicking'.

Any time I've been shouted at during work I would ask the person if they can speak up, does their head in and there's not much they can do as it's not like you said go effort yourself or anything really rude.

I've also found that generally people who are so unprofessional as to shout at employees, rarely will fire or discipline an employee for shouting right back. On some level they know they set the bad example shouting first. It's not an ideal work environment but sometimes being able to give it as good as them will work out better than going to a useless HR rep. Basically you mirror your boss and he then thinks you're just as stressed/passionate/whatever as him.

kurtainsider

DeanAustin wrote: »

Woooosh.

It could be that he can’t pay the mortgage, the wife is cheating on him, one of the kids is sick. ......

The point I'm making is that the bully always knows who's face he can roar into doesn't he? The bully picks his target. It's very unlikely that, even under the stresses you suggest he may be under, that he'd march into his bosses office and shout into his/her face. If he did he could add unemployment to his list of woes.

I'm never in favour of the "lets try to understand the bully" the poor aul cratur. Hence my earlier response.

DeanAustin

kurtainsider wrote: »

The point I'm making is that the bully always knows who's face he can roar into doesn't he? The bully picks his target. It's very unlikely that, even under the stresses you suggest he may be under, that he'd march into his bosses office and shout into his/her face. If he did he could add unemployment to his list of woes.

I'm never in favour of the "lets try to understand the bully" the poor aul cratur. Hence my earlier response.

Now we've jumped to "bullying"?

kurtainsider

DeanAustin wrote: »

Now we've jumped to "bullying"?

I thought that it was a given that a manager who shouts into the face of an employee further down the pecking order is by definition a bully.

DeanAustin

kurtainsider wrote: »

I thought that it was a given that a manager who shouts into the face of an employee further down the pecking order is by definition a bully.

No it's not. Bullying, in a workplace context, is repeated behaviour. There is nothing in the OP to indicate that's the case.

dr.fuzzenstein

I worked in a place like that.
Understaffed, underresourced, constant pressure and shouted at.
Had I not needed the money I wouldn't even have stayed there, as I saw the first second I walked in the door it was a sh*thole.
Leave, leave, leave! Get the flock out of there OP, don't try to toughen it out, don't hope it gets better, don't think you owe them anything.
I left my sh*t job for one that paid 7 grand less and it nearly ruined me financially, but it was my break into IT. I steadily worked my way up and I am now in a fantastic job with great bosses and colleagues.
A sh*thole will always be a sh*thole, don't think it will change. I was shouted at like a dog in the street in that job. When I sent my letter of resignation, I did not even get a reply.
You know what? I didn't want one. Leaving and bettering myself was the best thing I ever did.
You can do better OP! The only way is up. Buff up your CV now.
You know what happened to the guys in the crap job? They were all let go and the German cnuts that owned the place cheated all of them out of their redundancy money.
That is after they fired half of them previously (cheated them too) and replaced them with cheaper Polish guys. That's not the fault of the Poles, but the criminals who owned the place.
Get out, get out, get out.