Getting fit?

JC01

So a slightly different question to the norm, all help appreciated.

Basically I've been weight training pretty regularly for 2-3 years now and am quite happy with the shape I'm in but I'm really struggling to get over a plateu at the moment. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced my lack of actual fitness is whats doing me. I seem to generally run out of energy rather than strength while lifting heavy these days.

That combined with the health implications mean I've decided I want to get fit. If no interest in weight loss and in fact the less calories I use up training the better, so with that in mind what would people recommend as a program/routine? Years ago I played a lot of sport so was always fit but I've never actually trained specifically to get fit so I'm really out of my comfort zone here and I can't find any cardio programs that don't just harp on about calories and weight loss which really is the opposite of my goal.

How do people train to get fit and more specifically how do they do this while weightlifting for strength/size at the same time?

Alf Veedersane

JC01 wrote: »

So a slightly different question to the norm, all help appreciated.

Basically I've been weight training pretty regularly for 2-3 years now and am quite happy with the shape I'm in but I'm really struggling to get over a plateu at the moment. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced my lack of actual fitness is whats doing me. I seem to generally run out of energy rather than strength while lifting heavy these days.

That combined with the health implications mean I've decided I want to get fit. If no interest in weight loss and in fact the less calories I use up training the better, so with that in mind what would people recommend as a program/routine? Years ago I played a lot of sport so was always fit but I've never actually trained specifically to get fit so I'm really out of my comfort zone here and I can't find any cardio programs that don't just harp on about calories and weight loss which really is the opposite of my goal.

How do people train to get fit and more specifically how do they do this while weightlifting for strength/size at the same time?

What kind or set/rep ranges do you use?

Sounds like a strong possibility that you may not have much of a work capacity.

LuckyLloyd

Is time an issue in anyway? How many training sessions a week are you actually doing?

JC01

Sets/reps varies, I try change my core program every 3 or so months, generally though say 4 Sets at 8-12 reps and I train 4-5 times a week.

Usually do a split so say chest/tris one day back/bis another, legs/shoulders etc.

Time isn't a massive issue but that said I do like to get in and get out, I find if I walk into the gym with 90 mins ahead of me il mess about a lot more than if I'm going in for a hard 45 mins and out the door.

Alf Veedersane

You sure you're eating enough?

JC01

Fairly, iv an insane metabolism and always have so food has been an issue for me since day one, I've it pretty well sorted at this stage though, obviously still miss out on days here and there but I reckon I get enough calories and meet my macros probably 80% of the time.

Iv used myfitnesspal to track it for a long time and that seems to agree with me.

Alf Veedersane

Is there any time or particular workouts where you lose energy?

But I still think if it's a lack of energy, you might either need to look at whether you're fuelling enough or if you're recovering enough for subsequent sessions.

dashoonage

Steak and smolov....that will sort ya right out.

TRS30

Do you get enough sleep?
I've started to realise that I was focusing a lot on my workouts and diet and was neglecting proper rest/sleep. My issue is a couple of young kids however I'm working on trying get more sleep/proper rest.

Brian?

Something like metcons could work. But don’t add them to your workload, replace a lifting session with them.

This will only help if you’re already eating and sleeping enough.

JC01

Thanks for it the replies. With sleep I get 6-7 hours on a work night and 8-9 on days off, I've been through the sleep/diet thing as they are the obvious trouble spots and I'm relatively happy with them. Miss my targets occasionally but such is life.

The reasons I've really zeroed in on a lack of fitness as my current problem are:

I'm really very unfit! If I'm having the odd kickabout with friends people can't believe someone in my "shape" gets so out of breath so fast, if I ran up 3 flights of stairs I'd really know about it.

And secondly it's the actual nature of my problem. Say I'm pushing on into the last sets of bench, my tris and chest won't be burnt out but il literally not have the "energy" to lift the bar again. Then say I move onto incline dumbbell press. I know I can do them easily with 30s, perfect form etc, now after a few sets of bench il struggle with 25s and by the last set of those 20s are a struggle. Again it's more a general lack of power/energy rather than saying "ok my arms or chest are shot and physically can't move the weights up again"

Iv tried a couple things recently to try rectify this problem with no results so my logical next step is improving my cardiovascular endurance. Unfortunately I'm pretty clueless as to how to do this effectively.

LuckyLloyd

I think this is an interesting question, and I agree with the OP that googling the topic gives you a weighting towards weight loss rather than fitness. I think it's a hole in publicly available literature - if you want to learn the basics of losing weight, strength training, building muscle, etc the information is on the Internet. If you want to commit to a ton of endurance training that's on there too. But how one becomes a more rounded individual and mixes various types of training or works on weaknesses without impinging a main goal, well that's trickier. It's why coaching and people with knowledge have value.

To the OP: I am getting a sense that you train a body building split regularly and have made some good progress aesthetically. I think what you're essentially looking to add into your mix initially is low to medium intensity endurance training for medium duration. HIIT training or Metcons or whatever tend to be high intensity for low or medium duration and create a strong recovery requirement in of themselves. Similarly, trying to load a load of long steady state endurance work on top of what you're doing will ramp up the time in the gym and consequent recovery requirements.

What type of equipment is available to you? Are there bikes there? Concept II rowers? Do you have a track or space to run? Kettlebells, sleds, etc?

Mellor

JC01 wrote: »

And secondly it's the actual nature of my problem. Say I'm pushing on into the last sets of bench, my tris and chest won't be burnt out but il literally not have the "energy" to lift the bar again.

TBH that's still strength, not fitness.

Just because chest isn't burning, doesn't mean its not a muscule at it's limit. The reason we have 5 rep maxes, 8 rep maxes, etc is down to energy systems at a cellular level, so strength is still energy, just not cardiovascular fitness.

Improving cario fitness/endurance won't really effect weights. One is aerobic, the other is anaerobic.

I kinda get the impression, that although you've been lifting weights a while, you are doing so without direction.

What strength program have you been following?
WhY do you change every 3 months?
Do you ever do reps below the 8-12 range?

JC01

Mellor wrote: »

TBH that's still strength, not fitness.

Just because chest isn't burning, doesn't mean its not a muscule at it's limit. The reason we have 5 rep maxes, 8 rep maxes, etc is down to energy systems at a cellular level, so strength is still energy, just not cardiovascular fitness.

Improving cario fitness/endurance won't really effect weights. One is aerobic, the other is anaerobic.

I kinda get the impression, that although you've been lifting weights a while, you are doing so without direction.

What strength program have you been following?
WhY do you change every 3 months?
Do you ever do reps below the 8-12 range?

I haven't been following a set program in a long time, did 5x5s a few times starting out but generally just stick to my own split. When you say direction, I do have a goal in mind and always set myself up around that goal but bar talking to mates who are into the gym as well I'd say 90% of my routines are ones I've researched myself and made up.

The changing has been a more recent thing, basically just trying to bust through a plateu, I switched to lower rep strength training for a while and then got into the habit of doing a fairly similar split each week but changing up core exercises often enough. For example I'll start all of my chest days with a flat bench for a month than swap into starting with say incline dumbbells. And yep if I'm going for very heavy (for me) lifts I'll use lower ranges, my previous answer is what I normally go for though which is certainly more 8-12 rep ranges.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think this is an interesting question, and I agree with the OP that googling the topic gives you a weighting towards weight loss rather than fitness. I think it's a hole in publicly available literature - if you want to learn the basics of losing weight, strength training, building muscle, etc the information is on the Internet. If you want to commit to a ton of endurance training that's on there too. But how one becomes a more rounded individual and mixes various types of training or works on weaknesses without impinging a main goal, well that's trickier. It's why coaching and people with knowledge have value.

To the OP: I am getting a sense that you train a body building split regularly and have made some good progress aesthetically. I think what you're essentially looking to add into your mix initially is low to medium intensity endurance training for medium duration. HIIT training or Metcons or whatever tend to be high intensity for low or medium duration and create a strong recovery requirement in of themselves. Similarly, trying to load a load of long steady state endurance work on top of what you're doing will ramp up the time in the gym and consequent recovery requirements.

What type of equipment is available to you? Are there bikes there? Concept II rowers? Do you have a track or space to run? Kettlebells, sleds, etc?

Pretty much nail on the head there for me. I'm finding it very difficult to get good info on exactly what I'm looking for. As you've said a lot of the HIIT etc protocols mean long recovery time which doesn't lend itself very well to sticking onto a bodybuilding routine.

As for equipment, I've acess to most typical gym cardio equipment, treadmills, bikes, rowers etc no sleds/ropes or that sort of thing though unfortunately.

Alf Veedersane

Big components of recovery are eating and sleep though. I know you say you have addressed diet but I still think its possible you don't have it as precise as you think.

Transform

two answers

1. youve been lifting in the exact same rep range for far too long and that needs to adjust, changing just the exercises solely wont do that

2. Improving you're overall conditioning will help with improved recovery from session to session and in building a big aerobic base which most people are seriously lacking e.g. look at how many people buy ligting shoes, belts, gloves, suppplements yet wont buy a friggin heart rate monitor.

heres the past few sessions of conditioning work ive programmed, in no particular order (yes the order is really important), conditioning should NOT NOT NOT be done at a high intensity all the time and this is the massive mistake most people make, I program no more than 1 hard session per week and the client is not to do that hard session if they dont feel up to it due to not managing lifestyle factors outside of the gym i.e. work/family/relationship stress, lack of sleep etc

(im only posting this as doing programming for week ahead so its open in front of me, typically takes me 2hrs to write a one week program, Im not that slow, it just takes bloody time to do it right)
Please keep in mind this is only a small part of how proper programming looks but might give you suggestions on conditioning pieces

Conditioning/metcons -

20mins AMRAP
Plank up or tap outs – work for 30secs here in either option - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HffiZtVKOI&t=1s

40 double unders or 40reps in fast feet (fast feet vid - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmqzA07fDHI )or 80 single under skips

2 rope climbs or 6 towel pull ups https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTHOn3epZOI

Standing push press with dumbbells 10reps (go lighter than you think)

Pallof press lunges 15secs hold per side - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPGBipR2Ovg&t=3s

+++++
400m row or run 1min rest between efforts x 2
300m row or run 1mins rest between efforts x 2
200m row or run 1min rest between efforts x 2
100m row or run 1mins rest between efforts x 2-3

+++++++++
3 rounds of –
25 calorie row
15 goblet squats holding kettlebell
10 renegade rows per side or 10 power cleans using 35kg women/50kg men

++++++
this should be NO MORE THAN 60-70% EFFORT, if you can or want to go harder than this then you went too slow on the first metcon
EMOM 12mins
Odd mins – around the box handstand – work for 30secs max – keep hands as close to the box as possible, hips must remain as high as possible, do not move and just hold the position if you struggle with it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0jLK_b6Lt0
Even mins – heavy kettlebell swings 12reps – swing to head height only please – DO NOT NOT NOT swing overhead

+++++++++++

Metcon 1 – EMOM 14mins – should be 80-90% effort here

Odd mins – 5 toes to bar or knees to elbow + 5 walking lunges Holding no weight or a 5-20kg plate against the chest or overhead (overhead would be the most challenging), If any of this takes longer than 45secs – move faster or cut off reps or move faster!

Even mins – Row or bike max calories (80% effort) – spend 45-50secs working and give yourself the rest of the time to get back to the toes to bar.

+++++

70% effort metcon
5 rounds of -
30secs hollow hold (lower back MUST stay on the floor) – try weighted if you can - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKkn4VlopmQ&t=1s
20 box jump overs
10 standing lateral raises (go way lighter than you think)
++++

Every 3mins – run 300m or row 400m, 14 burpees x 4 rounds (if the runs or rows are taking more than 1.35min to do or you think they will then only work to 1.35mins and move to burpees), you can NOT start the next set until 3mins pass, rest if you get finished before 3mins.
This should be a 85-100% effort workout
+++++
Metcon – Aerobic capacity workout – VO2 max session
NOTE – goal is to make the average pace on each set of 5 to be the same AND for each progressive set to get quicker i.e. the last set should be done at the quickest pace.
5 x 150m run or row, 15sec rest between efforts
Rest 3mins
5 x 150m run or row, 30secs rest between efforts
Rest 3min
5 x 150m run or row, 45secs rest between efforts
Rest 3mins
5 x 150m run or row, 60secs rest between efforts

+++++++++++
6 rounds of -
8-10 cals on assault bike, Split squats 6reps per leg (use no or very low load), bent over kettlebell row 8reps, side plank dips 6-8reps per side (lower hip to the floor and raise back up to perform one rep while holding side plank)

++++++++++
12mins AMRAP –
8 calorie assault bike or 10 calories row,
8 shoulder to overhead 50kg men,37.5kg women (scale to lighter dumbbells if you need to),
15 wall balls or wall ball alternatives (KB swing into front squat with KB 8-16kg) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-q7DGwLLHw

++++++++++
1000m row or 800m run x 3 with 2min break between efforts, perform at 85% effort, all efforts should have the same finish time

++++
4 rounds of -
1min - run/row/bike/sled push etc for high effort, rest 60secs.
1min – 15 box jumps, max KB swings or power cleans in remaining time (45kg women, 60kg men – please do not scale weight), rest 60secs
this will be rough
++++
use no weights in this metcon to keep intensity at no more than 70% effort
5-6 sets of -
Step ups 8reps per leg (use a box or step over knee height)
Seated knee tuck holds 15-20secs (sit on the box, try to straighten legs as you lift bum off box)
Side plank rows 10reps per side
Handstand hold 20secs (try some handstand walking if you can for 20ft or shoulder taps in handstand for 5-8reps per side)

+++++
30mins AMRAP –
500m row or 400m run
500m ski erg or 400m run
1km on bike

++++
In each minute work for 45sec, take the 15secs to transition to the next exercise
Rest as needed in the work period
Three rounds total
Min 1 – Kettlebell swings or power cleans at 60% of max power clean
Min 2 – Crab crawl forwards, backwards, sideways -vary it up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwcbm93mM-o
Min 3 – Pull ups performed strict or using band assistance as needed
Min 4 - shuttle run, run outside or row for 45secs
++++
any questions ask - you dont have to know exactly how to do each movement but its understanding the overall training effect you're going for thats important and that you dont have to simply run for 20-30mins to do conditioning work

Alf Veedersane

Transform wrote: »

Metcon – Aerobic capacity workout – VO2 max session
NOTE – goal is to make the average pace on each set of 5 to be the same AND for each progressive set to get quicker i.e. the last set should be done at the quickest pace.
5 x 150m run or row, 15sec rest between efforts
Rest 3mins
5 x 150m run or row, 30secs rest between efforts
Rest 3min
5 x 150m run or row, 45secs rest between efforts
Rest 3mins
5 x 150m run or row, 60secs rest between effort

Quick one on this. Is there any rule of thumb for pace on this? I imagine its quite easy to make it easy on yourself, to begin with at least.

Granted, i used do 150m rows but with i would have a time limit - 30s for example - to get that done in so i couldn't give myself too easy a ride.

I just mean in a general sense to think about how i might change up a session with the same intent

Transform

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Quick one on this. Is there any rule of thumb for pace on this? I imagine its quite easy to make it easy on yourself, to begin with at least.

Granted, i used do 150m rows but with i would have a time limit - 30s for example - to get that done in so i couldn't give myself too easy a ride.

I just mean in a general sense to think about how i might change up a session with the same intent

Go super easy on first round eg 1.55-2min/500m

Then on every big set of 5 aim to hold 5-7secs quicker / 500m

So last set would be at or close to 1.30min/500m split

Alternative light session = do all sets at same as the opening set

Alf Veedersane

Transform wrote: »

Go super easy on first round eg 1.55-2min/500m

Then on every big set of 5 aim to hold 5-7secs quicker / 500m

So last set would be at or close to 1.30min/500m split

Alternative light session = do all sets at same as the opening set

Ah ok. That makes sense. There are some guidelines on what they should be aiming for, depending on the person obviously. I did wonder what that might be with only 15s rest

I used just push the 150m row (<= 30s) with 30s rest and then push the number of sets til i was struggling to keep the 150m row within 30s.

I appreciate there are many ways to skin a cat but just looking at an alternative so thanks for that!

Transform

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Ah ok. That makes sense. There are some guidelines on what they should be aiming for, depending on the person obviously. I did wonder what that might be with only 15s rest

I used just push the 150m row (<= 30s) with 30s rest and then push the number of sets til i was struggling to keep the 150m row within 30s.

I appreciate there are many ways to skin a cat but just looking at an alternative so thanks for that!

i would argue that its more the distance and intensity in particular that needs adjusting more regularly than anything else

plus adjusting and varying the type of metcons you're doing e.g. do one mono structural metcon per week (use a single piece of equipment or training tool - run, bike, swim, cross trainer etc),

2 multi modal metcons (using varied exercises e.g. pull ups, lunges, core work, kettlbell swings) and

e.g. - this is a continuous workout for 12mins the only rest is the 15secs to transition between exercises
45secs work 15secs rest/transition of –
Bike or row
Max reps wall walk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpuoE246W1Y do far less of these than you think e.g. max 5reps per 45secs
Sumo deadlift high pull 10reps, lateral jump over the kettlebell 10-15reps
X 4 sets

2-3 recovery based metcons where there is minimal use of eccentric portion of a lift as thats what will cost you the most in terms of recovery and stress and plenty of concentric only lifts/movements or isometric and mobility based movements built into a conditioning block e.g.

5-6 rounds of -
Snap to hollow drill for 5-7reps or hollow hold for 30secs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNfDBmluGZk
Pistols 3reps per side use bands as needed and weighted if possible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEaGHbcHBC8
Bear crawl or crab walk working for 20secs forwards, 20secs back (if you have a short distance available to you then go slower) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02P38seucEM
Farmers walk heaviest dumbbells you can handle 40secs walking

Overall the people that are the most resistant to doing conditioning are generally the ones that need it the most and when they do do it they go way too hard, never track heart rate and then stop doing it because "it's so hard and im so unfit".

Systems and principles first, not sh1t soup training where you're throwing everything into a blender and hoping for the best