Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

20Cent

Nox wrote: »

For your reading pleasure I present part of a quote from moderator robinph from post # 7029:
Whereas for most English speakers, the two words are synonymous in meaning, the Arabic roots of the two words are very different. A Muslim in Arabic means"one who gives himself to God," and is by definition, someone who adheres to Islam. By contrast, a Moslem in Arabic means"one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, Mozlem with a z.

If you care to take the time, you can see my reply at the time.  BTW … I stand by moslem, but thank you for your input.

Just say you're a racist it's shorter.

mcmoustache

Nox wrote: »

Yet another victory for President Donald J Trump. The court decided that the POTUS could follow his Constitutional authority and protect the US. All the whining libs who falsely claimed it was a moslem ban forgot about a couple non-moslem counties … Korea and Venezuela. Yeah, it goes back to the 9th, but yet again the 9th et al got smacked down again.

Tell me this. Did he get the one that he wanted or did he get a watered down PC version?



Your eagerness to boast about your dear leader's legislative virility suggests to me that he trounced the ninth and totally owned the libs through his unstoppable brilliance and got exactly what he wanted. Would that be the case?

mcmoustache

Nox wrote: »

Apparently you did not do your research and read my reply, What a pity. When you look at 1.8 billion people who are required to fulfil the requirements of their prophet (as dictated by God) "Convert or Die. Take your racist crap and sit on it.

This is what Trump has emboldened. Outside of racism, Trump has nothing else to offer Americans. The only thing exceptional about his presidential run was that he looked for the racist vote when others would not. It's the equivalent of taking the collection basket at mass and walking out with it - anyone could do it but you'd need to be a cúnt to do so.


It's not even hidden anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz3q0baxHpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68ceoFJX9o

Manic Moran

Thargor wrote: »

The Democratic party imploded after SHS was refused service in a restaurant? Got a link?

Far from an implosion, but there seems to be some internal dissent as to whether or not such actions as the restaurant ejection are actually a good idea. Rep Waters has advocated taking every opportunity to state objection, tell them they are not welcome in restaurants, etc. Sen Schumer has fired back saying that it's not the way Democrats ought to act. Both sides have their adherents.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/26/chuck_schumer_slams_maxine_waters_incitement_to_harass_political_opponents_not_american.html

everlast75

Its the same every time.

When immigration comes into discussion, it invariably brings out racists.

That is not to say that immigration should not be discussed. But we really should stick to the facts.

That immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. That communities that bring in immigrants prosper. That the wall will do f**king nothing to assist border control.

But those that have their prejudices won't listen to reason or fact.

Trump picked countries he had a beef with, and ignored those countries in which those that carried out attacks were from, because it suited him.

He is appealing to those with prejudices against blacks, hispanics and gay people and either they can't see that, or else they are perfectly happy with it

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

He is appealing to those with prejudices against blacks, hispanics and gay people and either they can't see that, or else they are perfectly happy with it

They know exactly what he was about. He has communicated his racism to them and they've had their racist bones ticked and they like it. It's really not a secret. Many are completely open about it, even in here. Those who don't want to admit it will dismiss every racist utterance and dog-whistle and insist that you need to be personally gassing jews to be racist. It's all little more than white identity politics.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

Far from an implosion, but there seems to be some internal dissent as to whether or not such actions as the restaurant ejection are actually a good idea. Rep Waters has advocated taking every opportunity to state objection, tell them they are not welcome in restaurants, etc. Sen Schumer has fired back saying that it's not the way Democrats ought to act. Both sides have their adherents.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/26/chuck_schumer_slams_maxine_waters_incitement_to_harass_political_opponents_not_american.html

Waters is a vile person, essentially the left wing version of Steven King. In a perfect world both of them would not be in politics but it what it is.

I think Trump is very wrong to lump Chuck/Nancy in with Maxine as to there credit both have criticised her which wasn't exactly a crowd pleasing move in the Dems base.

However if you want the culture war that Trump does, then the more dangerous elements of the opposition will thrive.

He should have ignored her and let the Dems base fight amongst each other.

Itssoeasy

20Cent wrote: »

Moslem?

Definition of Moslem
formerly common but now old-fashioned, increasingly rare, and sometimes offensive variant of muslim

It's obvious the poster knows this as it was pointed out to him.

Danzy

everlast75 wrote: »

Its the same every time.

When immigration comes into discussion, it invariably brings out racists.

That is not to say that immigration should not be discussed. But we really should stick to the facts.

That immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. That communities that bring in immigrants prosper. That the wall will do f**king nothing to assist border control.

But those that have their prejudices won't listen to reason or fact.

Trump picked countries he had a beef with, and ignored those countries in which those that carried out attacks were from, because it suited him.

He is appealing to those with prejudices against blacks, hispanics and gay people and either they can't see that, or else they are perfectly happy with it

You have to remember that the New Deal shifted America towards the centre, the idea of the State as an actor in society and the economy, that the State had an obligation to the populace rather than the free market, the free for all of the early years.

While there is still the very strong attachment to individualism there is also the above.

Your free market position is not as popular as it may seem, even among free market choir boys.

everlast75

Danzy wrote: »

You have to remember that the New Deal shifted America towards the centre, the idea of the State as an actor in society and the economy, that the State had an obligation to the populace rather than the free market, the free for all of the early years.

While there is still the very strong attachment to individualism there is also the above.

Your free market position is not as popular as it may seem, even among free market choir boys.

I've no idea what you are talking about.

I mean, I know your post contains English words, but that's about it

Infini

astradave wrote: »

So you are basically calling approx 1.8 billion people evil and unjust? You cannot truly believe that, such generalisation is borderline racist

To be fair the term would be accurate...... to the Darwin Award brigades that made up Isis and their ilk.

Not the normal Muslims that generally mean or cause no harm.

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

I've no idea what you are talking about.

I mean, I know your post contains English words, but that's about it

Check back about 90 years ago to Roosevelt in the 1930's.

aloyisious

Reading this paragraph from today's online Irish Times re Don and Harley-Davidson.

In a separate tweet Mr Trump said the company was using the tariffs as an “excuse” as officials had previously told him they were moving plant operations in Kansas city to Thailand before the tariffs were announced.

In January, Harley-Davidson said it would close a plant in Kansas city due to a sharp drop in US demand for its motorcycles, but said it would consolidate work there into its plant in York, Pennsylvania. The company is setting up an assembly plant in Thailand, a move it announced in May 2017, but that would put together bikes only for the growing southeast Asian market.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/trump-threatens-harley-davidson-with-taxes-like-never-before-1.3544819

everlast75

aloyisious wrote: »

Reading this paragraph from today's online Irish Times re Don and Harley-Davidson.

In a separate tweet Mr Trump said the company was using the tariffs as an “excuse” as officials had previously told him they were moving plant operations in Kansas city to Thailand before the tariffs were announced.

In January, Harley-Davidson said it would close a plant in Kansas city due to a sharp drop in US demand for its motorcycles, but said it would consolidate work there into its plant in York, Pennsylvania. The company is setting up an assembly plant in Thailand, a move it announced in May 2017, but that would put together bikes only for the growing southeast Asian market.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/trump-threatens-harley-davidson-with-taxes-like-never-before-1.3544819

https://twitter.com/radiochick841/status/1011712671287259140?s=19

Straight from the Harley's mouth...

Trigger

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/radiochick841/status/1011712671287259140?s=19

Straight from the Harley's mouth...

Well at least they say it how it is, I hope more company’s follow suit and take a pop at him on the way out. It probably won’t have any effect on his main base but hopefully can turn some fence sitters

Nox

20Cent wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

For your reading pleasure I present part of a quote from moderator robinph from post # 7029:
Whereas for most English speakers, the two words are synonymous in meaning, the Arabic roots of the two words are very different. A Muslim in Arabic means"one who gives himself to God," and is by definition, someone who adheres to Islam. By contrast, a Moslem in Arabic means"one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, Mozlem with a z.

If you care to take the time, you can see my reply at the time.  BTW … I stand by moslem, but thank you for your input.

Just say you're a racist it's shorter.

Hmmm … a typical dim response.  Everything is racist … even moslems.  Last time I looked the largest population of moslems lived in Indonesia.  Moslems live in Albania, Nigeria, the Middle East and there is a good possibility that there is at least one in Antarctica.  So tell me, just when did Islam become a race?  

As I said before … you libs can take your racism crap about moslems and sit on it.

everlast75

Aaaannnyyyhoooo..

This is just plain weird.

https://twitter.com/scottbix/status/1011649608362201088?s=19

RIGOLO

So the Yuan has hit a 6 month low and the US markets recovered most of their early week losses , whilst Chinese markets are still under pressure. As i said the US economy is far more robust to handle the trade spats/war/rebalancing (take your pick on terminology). 
The rest of the financial world moves on from the drop in the ocean 400 jobs in Harley news , but I see the IT has made it a banner headline and these 400 jobs seem to be the only basis for current discussion by some people on trade . 
Once again the media are only too happy to indulge the contempt of liberals and Democrat supporters by sensationalist sound bite reporting pandering to the baying masses. 
Which is dissappointing because there are far more interesting and real angles to the trade 'blank' (choose  option1 for war, 2 for spat, 3 for rebalancing)  .
Take todays news item on CNBC . Its got a whole raft of interesting angles, lots of law of unintended consequences stuff. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/chinese-tariffs-on-some-us-commodities-hit-next-week--but-beijing-m.html
short synopsis.. China will tariff US SOYA reducing US soya imports, China now looking to import more from its asian neighbours (less food miles travelled, better for environment) , also China will look to import more from Brazil (we should celebrate that a bit, a developing nation albeit its a negative impact on the Amazon) , but the catch is that global (non-US)  soya supply may not meet growing Chinese demand so they may end up back asking the US for soya. But lets not forget my opening point that the yuan is weakining as the dollar strengtens. 
So all in all a rather complex situation and thats just one commodity soya. 
So its all interconnected, swings and roundabouts, the only people claiming its a zero-sum game are the left who constantly state Trump administration thinks its a zero-sum game, for which theres no evidence.     

And in another development  for Trump trade administration there are talks of  new restrictions on  foreign investment to stop IP (intellectual property) theft.  Mnuchin IMO is the man behind the scenes in much of the US trade developments, I think he is the one setting some of the policy either directly or indirectly, a very interesting character.   
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/25/treasury-secretary-mnuchin-says-investment-restrictions-will-apply-to-.html
So as I say alot , I mean alot happening on trade in hte last 2 days , perhaps its all just about the 400 Harley Davidson jobs or perhaps theres been many other major developments, some even larger ones , just not being reported on to the same degree.

jooksavage

RIGOLO wrote: »

So the Yuan has hit a 6 month low and the US markets recovered most of their early week losses , whilst Chinese markets are still under pressure. As i said the US economy is far more robust to handle the trade spats/war/rebalancing (take your pick on terminology).
The rest of the financial world moves on from the drop in the ocean 400 jobs in Harley news , but I see the IT has made it a banner headline and these 400 jobs seem to be the only basis for current discussion by some people on trade .
Once again the media are only too happy to indulge the contempt of liberals and Democrat supporters by sensationalist sound bite reporting pandering to the baying masses.
Which is dissappointing because there are far more interesting and real angles to the trade 'blank' (choose option1 for war, 2 for spat, 3 for rebalancing) .
Take todays news item on CNBC . Its got a whole raft of interesting angles, lots of law of unintended consequences stuff.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/chinese-tariffs-on-some-us-commodities-hit-next-week--but-beijing-m.html
short synopsis.. China will tariff US SOYA reducing US soya imports, China now looking to import more from its asian neighbours (less food miles travelled, better for environment) , also China will look to import more from Brazil (we should celebrate that a bit, a developing nation albeit its a negative impact on the Amazon) , but the catch is that global (non-US) soya supply may not meet growing Chinese demand so they may end up back asking the US for soya. But lets not forget my opening point that the yuan is weakining as the dollar strengtens.
So all in all a rather complex situation and thats just one commodity soya.
So its all interconnected, swings and roundabouts, the only people claiming its a zero-sum game are the left who constantly state Trump administration thinks its a zero-sum game, for which theres no evidence.

And in another development for Trump trade administration there are talks of new restrictions on foreign investment to stop IP (intellectual property) theft. Mnuchin IMO is the man behind the scenes in much of the US trade developments, I think he is the one setting some of the policy either directly or indirectly, a very interesting character.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/25/treasury-secretary-mnuchin-says-investment-restrictions-will-apply-to-.html
So as I say alot , I mean alot happening on trade in hte last 2 days , perhaps its all just about the 400 Harley Davidson jobs or perhaps theres been many other major developments, some even larger ones , just not being reported on to the same degree.

*takes megaphone*


Also the CBO reports that national debt is set it to reach 100% of GDP by 2030 and 152% by 2048.

looksee

So its all interconnected, swings and roundabouts, the only people claiming its a zero-sum game are the left who constantly state Trump administration thinks its a zero-sum game, for which theres no evidence.

Er, ok. So 'the left' say that Trump thinks its a zero-sum game, which shows that they ('the left') think its a zero-sum game. I need to think about that for a bit.

Leroy42

Another stunning win for Trump!

Federal judge orders Trump administration to reunite migrant families

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/judge-orders-trump-reunite-migrant-families-678809

Blasting the Trump administration for what he called “a chaotic circumstance of the Government’s own making,” Sabraw said it was a “startling reality” that no adequate planning had been done before officials embarked on a policy to separate children from parents kept in immigration custody or referred for criminal prosecution. The practice has led to more than 2,300 children being separated from their parents or other family members.

Any update on those opioid bills that you were so gleeful about?

And the fact that you dismiss 400 jobs, just a drop in the ocean. Remember the crowing Trump undertook about Carrier? How many jobs was that? 1,400. Surely that is simply a drop in the ocean as well yet it was held up as somehow a sign of things to come.

And the number of jobs is irrelevant. It is the message. Trump is starting a trade war with many countries on the basis of bringing jobs back to the US. We only have his word that this is going to work. Yet the first evidence we get is the exact opposite. Why would you not now be questioning the basis for the trade war. Instead Harley Davidson is now being cast as Anti-American. I mean, its a world-wide symbol of America and Trump has thrown it under a bus.

This comes only a few weeks after Trump declared that he wanted to see jobs going back to China with ZTE. Its a mess.

And any view on the fact that such a watered down version of the muslim ban finally, after 18 months, got through the courts? Is it that Trump failed to deal with the legalities in a proper fashion and thus left the US open to significant threats due to incompetence, or is it that the ban finally passed is so watered down and pc that it is far from what Trump promised and so can't even be taken as a win?

jooksavage

Also, dismissing 400 jobs at this point is a bit daft - we're only a few weeks into Trumps self-described "trade war". People should be concerned that those losses are a sign of things to come, not treating them like collateral damage at the conclusion of a successful campaign.

pixelburp

RIGOLO wrote: »

[...]
The rest of the financial world moves on from the drop in the ocean 400 jobs in Harley news , but I see the IT has made it a banner headline and these 400 jobs seem to be the only basis for current discussion by some people on trade . 
[...]

What the financial world thinks of 400 job losses is irrelevant here, and frankly you're being incredibly naive - and more than a little cold & selective - if you think the effect of job losses are limited to either the closing factory, or those whose jobs were lost. Or indeed if you think there isn't a political cost to these items.

You seem either unwilling or incapable of separating the financial cost of a MINIMUM of 400 job losses and the demonstrable effect that has on a local economy, or a voting demographic. As I've said before, that 400 figure is a minimum purely because a lot of dependencies, services, and tertiary jobs in the surrounding economy would have relied on the continued presence of that factory. It's entirely possible - and likely - that others will lose their jobs precisely because those 400 lost theirs. It's a cumulative effect and happens at every major closure. The financial world may not care in your mind - but the social, political and economic one does.

Trump PROMISED to bring jobs back to the US, make America great again, yet the demonstrated results of a Trade War he instigated (and AGAIN, this is the wording he used) are hurting the American workers.

But hey, I'm wasting my breath because you really just don't debate with folks here - just talk at us with unformatted walls of text affecting some helicopter financial view as if you're above it all - or as if there isn't any other metric in a economy / political discussion . Maybe you are a bot.

Christy42

Us markets have not recovered their losses? The Dow is still down about 500 on about 5 days ago which has been the only significant move in some time as it appears to have stalled badly.

China will certainly still buy some soy beans from the US. All countries will feel pain for this trade war. There is a reason no one wanted it but Trump. However they can drastically reduce imports from the US and consumers there will have to cut down on it a little.

Hardly game breaking.

No word on the bill that passed last Friday? It seemed very important to you at the time. Big win for Trump and all that.

Speaking of winning all is going well with North Korea as it ramps back up its progress on nukes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/north-korea-nuclear-reactor-upgrades-summit-pledges

jooksavage

Rigolo's exhaustive reporting on the never-ending conveyor belt of Trump Wins seems to have left out the recent farm bill approved by congress which is set to knock millions off food stamps programs. Obviously this has everything to do with Trump kicking lazy, useless mouths off welfare and nothing at all to do with trillion dollar tax cut that's left the government unable to feed its most vulnerable citizens.

Captain_Crash

Just to offer clarity on the HD job losses. Having read the thread, it appears that the general consensus is that this is a result of the tariffs placed by Trump. However, HD announced in Jan that the Kansas City factory would be closing and it has nothing to do with the recent tariffs. The jobs from Kansas are moving to York, Pa. so no net loss in the US.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

There is a plant opening in Thailand to serve the APAC market with some production being moved from the US.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harley-davidson-steel-tariffs/

The "trade war" is still a sh*t show mind! and am fairly sure will result in 1000's of job losses across the US by the end of the year.

weisses

RIGOLO wrote: »

So the Yuan has hit a 6 month low and the US markets recovered most of their early week losses , whilst Chinese markets are still under pressure. As i said the US economy is far more robust to handle the trade spats/war/rebalancing (take your pick on terminology). 
The rest of the financial world moves on from the drop in the ocean 400 jobs in Harley news , but I see the IT has made it a banner headline and these 400 jobs seem to be the only basis for current discussion by some people on trade . 
Once again the media are only too happy to indulge the contempt of liberals and Democrat supporters by sensationalist sound bite reporting pandering to the baying masses. 
Which is dissappointing because there are far more interesting and real angles to the trade 'blank' (choose  option1 for war, 2 for spat, 3 for rebalancing)  .
Take todays news item on CNBC . Its got a whole raft of interesting angles, lots of law of unintended consequences stuff. 
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/22/chinese-tariffs-on-some-us-commodities-hit-next-week--but-beijing-m.html
short synopsis.. China will tariff US SOYA reducing US soya imports, China now looking to import more from its asian neighbours (less food miles travelled, better for environment) , also China will look to import more from Brazil (we should celebrate that a bit, a developing nation albeit its a negative impact on the Amazon) , but the catch is that global (non-US)  soya supply may not meet growing Chinese demand so they may end up back asking the US for soya. But lets not forget my opening point that the yuan is weakining as the dollar strengtens. 
So all in all a rather complex situation and thats just one commodity soya. 
So its all interconnected, swings and roundabouts, the only people claiming its a zero-sum game are the left who constantly state Trump administration thinks its a zero-sum game, for which theres no evidence.     

And in another development  for Trump trade administration there are talks of  new restrictions on  foreign investment to stop IP (intellectual property) theft.  Mnuchin IMO is the man behind the scenes in much of the US trade developments, I think he is the one setting some of the policy either directly or indirectly, a very interesting character.   
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/25/treasury-secretary-mnuchin-says-investment-restrictions-will-apply-to-.html
So as I say alot , I mean alot happening on trade in hte last 2 days , perhaps its all just about the 400 Harley Davidson jobs or perhaps theres been many other major developments, some even larger ones , just not being reported on to the same degree.

Before moving on the Yuan

What happened to the bill ?

Ill just keep asking in the hope of starting an actual discussion .....

Leroy42

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Just to offer clarity on the HD job losses. Having read the thread, it appears that the general consensus is that this is a result of the tariffs placed by Trump. However, HD announced in Jan that the Kansas City factory would be closing and it has nothing to do with the recent tariffs. The jobs from Kansas are moving to York, Pa. so no net loss in the US.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

There is a plant opening in Thailand to serve the APAC market with some production being moved from the US.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harley-davidson-steel-tariffs/

The "trade war" is still a sh*t show mind! and am fairly sure will result in 1000's of job losses across the US by the end of the year.

There is certainly a narrative that HD had this long planned and Trump is certainly claiming that they are using the tariffs as an excuse. I mightn't know much, but even I know that one should take corporate statements with a large pinch of salt.

But it raises up a further question. Trump recently passed a massive corporate tax cut, from 36% to 21%. THis is going to cost the country trillions in last tax revenue and the selling point to the workers across America was that it would lead to new jobs, higher wages, bonuses etc.

Yet here we have HD getting rid of 400 jobs. So have pocketed the CT cut and walked off. This calls into question the very nature of the tax cut. Recently we had the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office stating that the federal government’s annual budget deficit is set to widen significantly in the next few years, and is expected to top $1 trillion in 2020 despite healthy economic growth.

If the companies that are receiving these massive tax cuts are then simply laying off workers then the whole thing is even more a disaster than it is planned to be.

So even if one can side step laying the blame at the door of the trade war, it simply creates an even more uncomfortable position.

RIGOLO

weisses wrote: »

What happened to the bill ?  

Ill just keep asking in the hope of starting an actual discussion .....

The bill was passed by a bi-partisan majority 386 to 14 including democrat support. 
This is the THIRD time Ive posted that information. 
I dont see how constantly asking the question 'What happened to the bill ' for a bill that has been passed thru the House  is in any way conducive to a discussion.

RIGOLO

everlast75 wrote: »

Again, I do not agree. Most of the pro-Trump stance posts are generic info dumps. Those that are, and others, are challenged in a respectful way, using fact based comments. It most certainly doesn't flow the other way, present company excluded.

everlast75 wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

You have to remember that the New Deal shifted America towards the centre, the idea of the State as an actor in society and the economy, that the State had an obligation to the populace rather than the free market, the free for all of the early years. 

While there is still the very strong attachment to individualism there is also the above. 

Your free market position is not as popular as it may seem, even among free market choir boys.

I've no idea what you are talking about.

I mean, I know your post contains English words, but that's about it

Is that one of those respectful and fact based challenge ?