"Worst" World Champion

ThebitterLemon

Winning the World Championship is a tremendous achievement but there have been a number of "poor" champions in my opinion.

John Walton and Tony David spring to mind (Kirk Shepard would also be in the mix if he'd managed to win) but for me the "worst" was Scotlands Les Wallace.



Think the BDO really need to change their strategy as I don't think many view the Lakeside winner as a World Champion anymore.

TbL

sc86

some of the bdo winners are journeymen that fluked it

Stonedpilot

sc86 wrote: »

some of the bdo winners are journeymen that fluked it

Like Rob Cross?. Van Gerwen let crowd get to him in semis really affecting his game and Taylor was mentally on a beach somewhere with a cocktail. Terrible PDC final. Like an exhibation match.

catrat12

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Like Rob Cross?. Van Gerwen let crowd get to him in semis really affecting his game and Taylor was mentally on a beach somewhere with a cocktail. Terrible PDC final. Like an exhibation match.

Ah think that’s bit unfair on rob cross he had a great season and played unreal in final

Inquitus

catrat12 wrote: »

Ah think that’s bit unfair on rob cross he had a great season and played unreal in final

Aye I agree, he was a worthy winner, the real final was his match v MvG, Taylor scraped his way into the final and was simply unable to deal with Crosse's heavy scoring, MvG would have thumped Taylor as well.

sc86

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Like Rob Cross?. Van Gerwen let crowd get to him in semis really affecting his game and Taylor was mentally on a beach somewhere with a cocktail. Terrible PDC final. Like an exhibation match.

have a look at his stats from the final before you make silly comments

UrbanFret

The BDO version is no better than pub darts, in fact some of these pros wouldn't win a game in a lot of pubs.

mdwexford

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Like Rob Cross?. Van Gerwen let crowd get to him in semis really affecting his game and Taylor was mentally on a beach somewhere with a cocktail. Terrible PDC final. Like an exhibation match.

Close to the most idiotic post I have ever read on this site.

And there have been some classics.

Good job.

Stonedpilot

mdwexford wrote: »

Close to the most idiotic post I have ever read on this site.

And there have been some classics.

Good job.

Yours must be the most idiotic so if mine is close. You thought that was a good final?!?!?

dok_golf

Keith Deller

JenovaProject

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Yours must be the most idiotic so if mine is close. You thought that was a good final?!?!?

It wasnt a "competitive" final but it was a good final.
Rob Cross is as far from the worst world champ as you could imagine.His performance this year and in the world championships have been the most remarkable from a rookie ever.MVG didnt do what Cross did,hell,even Taylor didnt do what Cross did.
Rob Cross is here to stay and for you to mention him in a thread about the worst world champions is idiotic at best.

Stonedpilot

JenovaProject wrote: »

It wasnt a "competitive" final but it was a good final.
Rob Cross is as far from the worst world champ as you could imagine.His performance this year and in the world championships have been the most remarkable from a rookie ever.MVG didnt do what Cross did,hell,even Taylor didnt do what Cross did.
Rob Cross is here to stay and for you to mention him in a thread about the worst world champions is idiotic at best.

It wasnt a good final. Let me clarify. I find him remarkably boring.
Hes obviously a great player.

JenovaProject

Stonedpilot wrote: »

It wasnt a good final. Let me clarify. I find him remarkably boring.
Hes obviously a great player.

You find the 3rd highest average in a world championship final boring?
A 167 checkout against the throw boring?
Winning a leg after Taylors possible 9 darter boring?
Granted it wasnt close or competitive,like I said,but to put Cross's name in a thread about worst world champions is idiotic no matter how its spun.
It wasnt Cross's fault it was boring it was Taylors,Cross played some of the greatest darts seen in a world final,especially seeing as it was his debut.

I dont even want to mention his name in this thread.Its an insult to the mans performance.

PTH2009

I was surprised how calmly Cross took the whole becoming world champion thing, he wasant jumping around celebrating or anything

if that was me I'd be jumping around like a maniac

JenovaProject

PTH2009 wrote: »

I was surprised how calmly Cross took the whole becoming world champion thing, he wasant jumping around celebrating or anything

if that was me I'd be jumping around like a maniac

So would I!!!
He has the look of a man who thinks he'll win more,he was glad to give Taylor the limelight is his last ever match.

leggo

I wasn’t a big fan of John Part’s last Worlds (where he beat Kirk Shepherd in the final). I like Part, but he hadn’t had a vintage year and didn’t even have a great year following it. The draw just opened up for him and Kirk winning would’ve been a better story tbh, everything just fell flat and Part kinda won by default in the end. What I think frustrated me most was it was probably the only Worlds where I got to watch nearly every session so I was totally invested, and it really didn’t feel worth the time put in by the end.

I think if Cross regresses to become a middle of the pack player, we may view these Worlds similarly in the future. Not because of Cross (if anything he was the highlight), but more because of Taylor getting to the final without even needing to be at his best, then when he played a player in the form of his life he was decimated easily. It all depends on if Cross turns into a contender for years to come, in which case it was the passing of the torch, or if he’s more of a Kirk Shepherd.

I don’t even count the BDO anymore. At this stage, it’s just something to fill the void after the PDC ends. Up to even 5 years ago you could’ve argued there was some merit to winning that, but now it’s just grand for the lads who’ve chosen the different path to get on the telly.

ThebitterLemon

dok_golf wrote: »

Keith Deller

Deller wasn't that bad he won the BDO when it was the "real deal" and didn't he get to the semi final of the PDC World Champs years later. Think he also got to the final or won the Masters too

TbL

jr86

leggo wrote: »

I wasn’t a big fan of John Part’s last Worlds (where he beat Kirk Shepherd in the final). I like Part, but he hadn’t had a vintage year and didn’t even have a great year following it. The draw just opened up for him and Kirk winning would’ve been a better story tbh, everything just fell flat and Part kinda won by default in the end. What I think frustrated me most was it was probably the only Worlds where I got to watch nearly every session so I was totally invested, and it really didn’t feel worth the time put in by the end.

I think if Cross regresses to become a middle of the pack player, we may view these Worlds similarly in the future. Not because of Cross (if anything he was the highlight), but more because of Taylor getting to the final without even needing to be at his best, then when he played a player in the form of his life he was decimated easily. It all depends on if Cross turns into a contender for years to come, in which case it was the passing of the torch, or if he’s more of a Kirk Shepherd.

I don’t even count the BDO anymore. At this stage, it’s just something to fill the void after the PDC ends. Up to even 5 years ago you could’ve argued there was some merit to winning that, but now it’s just grand for the lads who’ve chosen the different path to get on the telly.

Yeah Part was ranked 11 that year, which was a truer reflection of his standing at the time really

That was a weird World's with no-one averaging over 100 in a match, a lot of the Players' came down with flu and it was the first year at the Ally Pally. Taylor was also in appalling form by his standards. Part was a solid customer and as you say pretty much won it by default

Then again there was a lot of let-downs around those years in general, when it came to the Worlds'. The year before, Barney and Taylor rescued an awful tournament, where Andy feckin' jenkins was a semi-finallist

The likes of Terry Jenkins and James Wade who played so well in other tournaments never really performed at the World's and it took years for Adrian Lewis to get going at them. Most of the top players then were much more inconsistent

The standard is much higher now

PS - I do agree on Cross. Superb tournament but in 10 years' time if he does fade into irrelevance (unlikely) it'll be viewed differently as a poor year.

Stonedpilot

JenovaProject wrote: »

You find the 3rd highest average in a world championship final boring?
A 167 checkout against the throw boring?
Winning a leg after Taylors possible 9 darter boring?
Granted it wasnt close or competitive,like I said,but to put Cross's name in a thread about worst world champions is idiotic no matter how its spun.
It wasnt Cross's fault it was boring it was Taylors,Cross played some of the greatest darts seen in a world final,especially seeing as it was his debut.

I dont even want to mention his name in this thread.Its an insult to the mans performance.

Quality is not in doubt, when I mean good is what you mean by competitive. I mean you could look at Barcelona drill a team 6-0. Might be amazing quality but boring game.

He's amazing player just very suddued, like a guy who has smoked few joints in interviews.

OK I regress, I was being flippant mentioning him. Life goes on.

mdwexford

In fairness Taylor averaged 102.26, the second highest final losing average ever.

He played well. Cross was just unplayable and wasn't missing.

The tournament on the whole didn't have many competitive games. How many even went to a deciding set, very few.

Alf Veedersane

The winning average in the final in the BDO since 1994 has been 92.4. Not once has a winner in the PDC gone that low. Part beat Shepard with an average of 92.86 and Lewis beat Andy Hamilton with an average of 93.06 in '12 but that's as low as they got.

This year's final wasn't competitive but you couldn't help but marvel at how cool Cross was, how well he scored and how he managed a 60% checkout in the final of his first world championships.

ArmaniJeanss

mdwexford wrote: »

In fairness Taylor averaged 102.26, the second highest final losing average ever.

It seemed a very soft 102 average - like back in the past when guys would go 3 or 4 points above their usual average against Taylor mainly because he himself was so clinical he was denying them their usual chance to take 60x/70x out in 3 darts (which wins you a leg but reduces your average).

Alf Veedersane

mdwexford wrote: »

How many even went to a deciding set, very few.

7 matches won 3-2 in first round.

4/31 matches from second round on, went to deciding set.

3 of those 4 were in the QFs and SFs.

sc86

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Quality is not in doubt, when I mean good is what you mean by competitive. I mean you could look at Barcelona drill a team 6-0. Might be amazing quality but boring game.

He's amazing player just very suddued, like a guy who has smoked few joints in interviews.

OK I regress, I was being flippant mentioning him. Life goes on.

the thread is worst world champion
not worst final


scot mitchell
christian kist
mark webster

all these guys are journeymen

parts 08 pdc win was bad
that was a terrible championships
but overall he was a 3 time champion and a great player on his day

mdwexford

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It seemed a very soft 102 average - like back in the past when guys would go 3 or 4 points above their usual average against Taylor mainly because he himself was so clinical he was denying them their usual chance to take 60x/70x out in 3 darts (which wins you a leg but reduces your average).

He did only have 22 darts at a double so the average is bit misleading.
Jamie Lewis had 41 vs Taylor in only 3 extra legs for instance.

He scored and finished well though. Cross just had too many guns and too much scoring power.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

7 matches won 3-2 in first round.

4/31 matches from second round on, went to deciding set.

3 of those 4 were in the QFs and SFs.

Yeah that's disappointing.

Cross vs Smith and vs MVG were the only games I was really on the edge of my seat for.

Cross v DvdB and MVG v Barney were decent in the end as well.

loyatemu

Klaasen? Won the BDO while Barney was still in it but didn't average above 91 in any match.

iseethelight

Keith Deller for me, don’t believe he won anything else and the sooner Lewis realises his ‘manager’ resides at next door to useless and gets rid of him the better.

ThebitterLemon

iseethelight wrote: »

Keith Deller for me, don’t believe he won anything else and the sooner Lewis realises his ‘manager’ resides at next door to useless and gets rid of him the better.

Ok but do you seriously think Les Wallace was better than Deller?

TbL

sc86

if taylor was in the bdo, the pdc would have had some terrible winners also

JenovaProject

Pull Barney out of the Bdo and the rest are all contenders for worst world champion.

Bdo is not even a world championship any more...i had a game of darts tonight with my.mate in the pub...we are not in a team..we only play once a week(more like once a month) for craic:3 180's plenty of 140's and 121 125 highest checkout was 121 then 81 and 72.....we are joke players....we are useless...we were also about 8 pints of lager gone...we played 15 legs and those were our best scores....avg of 56.09 and 55.09...the Bdo worl d champs is a glorified pub game with a bit of effort and practice id reckon anyone posting on this thread would a least make it past the 1st rd....id doubt any of us would make it past the pre-lims in the PDC though

iseethelight

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Ok but do you seriously think Les Wallace was better than Deller?

TbL

Les mcdanger - yeah ok I take your point

Mysterypunter

John Walton and Tony David spring to mind

TbL[/QUOTE]

Answered your own question, John boy Walton

sc86

JenovaProject wrote: »

Pull Barney out of the Bdo and the rest are all contenders for worst world champion.

Bdo is not even a world championship any more...i had a game of darts tonight with my.mate in the pub...we are not in a team..we only play once a week(more like once a month) for craic:3 180's plenty of 140's and 121 125 highest checkout was 121 then 81 and 72.....we are joke players....we are useless...we were also about 8 pints of lager gone...we played 15 legs and those were our best scores....avg of 56.09 and 55.09...the Bdo worl d champs is a glorified pub game with a bit of effort and practice id reckon anyone posting on this thread would a least make it past the 1st rd....id doubt any of us would make it past the pre-lims in the PDC though

big diff is your playing with no pressure
im sure alot of them lads are decent but just wilt on the stage

leggo

sc86 wrote: »

big diff is your playing with no pressure
im sure alot of them lads are decent but just wilt on the stage

Yeah to be fair, the entire upper echelon of the sport is predicated on handling pressure and hitting shots when it counts. Anyone who earns money to pay darts is by definition good at it. I once scored a cracking curler of a free-kick, Roberto Carlos style, while messing with my mates on the green, it didn’t make me good enough to be a professional footballer because I was able to do something cool this one time. Professionals are able to do it time and again when it counts.

matban

Totally disagree that this years PDC final was boring.
Have watched every PDC WC since inception.

We saw a future darts legend destroy the most legendary player of all time.

The manner in which he won also was very exciting, plenty of maximums, crazy outshots to win sets, turns around his opponents 9 dart attempt, couldnt miss 18s, nails the double to win first time.

Most darts fans around the world will be eagerly watching his next tournement.

imho, Rob Cross hit a new level of darts not seen before in that final.
The average was not a record probably because he scored poorly in a few games against the throw. But the lack of nerves and the way he took out sets and the title completely blew me away, most enjoyable final for a few years.

Inquitus

matban wrote: »

imho, Rob Cross hit a new level of darts not seen before in that final.
The average was not a record probably because he scored poorly in a few games against the throw. But the lack of nerves and the way he took out sets and the title completely blew me away, most enjoyable final for a few years.

I agree, he hit the same levels MvG hits, I really look forward to those 2 going head to head in the future, could well raise the standard of both their darts. The SF was an awesome match, MvG didn't panic or buckle under extreme pressure, and neither did Cross, when MvG came back at him and had darts for the mtch, they both had balls of steel and in the end Cross just eeked over the finish line first!

Ultimate Seduction

No mention of Christian Kist. I don't know is a Lakeside win count as a world title since around 2008

ThebitterLemon

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No mention of Christian Kist. I don't know is a Lakeside win count as a world title since around 2008

Les Wallace makes Kist look like MVG

TbL

Ultimate Seduction

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Les Wallace makes Kist look like MVG

TbL

I was just thinking of more recent ones. I didn't really watch much darts until I was born 😀

ThebitterLemon

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I was just thinking of more recent ones. I didn't really watch much darts until I was born 😀

It's a school night so you mightn't read this till tomorrow...:) some of the early BDO finals were fantastic. John Lowe was a super player and the Mike Gregory/Taylor final was excellent

Some of the later BDO winners were poor and some of the beaten finalists we really poor

TbL

Ps: proper darts back then, pints to beat the band and hard to see the players through the cigarette smoke

DEFTLEFTHAND

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No mention of Christian Kist. I don't know is a Lakeside win count as a world title since around 2008

He was mentioned.

According the world governing body of the sport it's the only world title.

If Darts ever became an Olympic sport it would be all BDO/WDF players competing.

gonko

catrat12 wrote: »

Ah think that’s bit unfair on rob cross he had a great season and played unreal in final

Taylor had already checked out of darts. His standard was poor throughout (for him). I remember watching the interview, MVG was having one day off then back to the board over Christmas, talking about his routines etc. Taylor just spoke about his turkey dinner and relaxing with the grand kids over.

Cross produced some great darts, but taylor was not worthy of a final this year and got smashed as a result.

Its a pity Anderson was so off for with his hip too (off topic).

mdwexford

gonko wrote: »

Taylor had already checked out of darts. His standard was poor throughout (for him). I remember watching the interview, MVG was having one day off then back to the board over Christmas, talking about his routines etc. Taylor just spoke about his turkey dinner and relaxing with the grand kids over.

Cross produced some great darts, but taylor was not worthy of a final this year and got smashed as a result.

Its a pity Anderson was so off for with his hip too (off topic).

Rubbish.

You clearly don't watch much darts.

Ultimate Seduction

gonko wrote: »

Taylor had already checked out of darts. His standard was poor throughout (for him). I remember watching the interview, MVG was having one day off then back to the board over Christmas, talking about his routines etc. Taylor just spoke about his turkey dinner and relaxing with the grand kids over.

Cross produced some great darts, but taylor was not worthy of a final this year and got smashed as a result.

Its a pity Anderson was so off for with his hip too (off topic).

It was the 2nd highest losing final average of all time. He talks bollox wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was practising more than mvg over the Xmas.

Inquitus

I think Kist win's it hands down by having the lowest Tournament average to ever with the BDO or PDC World's.

gonko

mdwexford wrote: »

Rubbish.

You clearly don't watch much darts.

So do you think that this was like taylor anything like his prime? Even close?

No. His mind had already checked out.

Ultimate Seduction

gonko wrote: »

So do you think that this was like taylor anything like his prime? Even close?

No. His mind had already checked out.

All the statistics should he played very well actually. Cross was just so good it made him look average! He averaged 102 over 9 sets, wired d12 for a 9 darter. No one can do this "with there mind already checked out."

You honestly think he wasn't too interested in winning his 17th world title in his last ever professional match?

SBPhoto

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Like Rob Cross?. Van Gerwen let crowd get to him in semis really affecting his game and Taylor was mentally on a beach somewhere with a cocktail. Terrible PDC final. Like an exhibation match.

His average scoring and check outs doesn't suggest that though, i though he was brilliant and deserved the title.

TheBigEvil

There are a few....

Richie Burnett
Les Wallace
John Walton
Tony David
Scott Waites (only because his first win was with an 86 average.... 86 ! ... and emm his second was an 87 !!!)
Christian Kist

ThebitterLemon

TheBigEvil wrote: »

There are a few....

Richie Burnett
Les Wallace
John Walton
Tony David
Scott Waites (only because his first win was with an 86 average.... 86 ! ... and emm his second was an 87 !!!)
Christian Kist

Definitely wouldn't have Burnett in there he'd a ok career, couple of decent wins and finals. Think he got to PDC world champs QF's twice in early 2000's as well.

Didn't think that Waites average was that low though!

TbL

Huntergonzo

A few of the BDO champions post 1993 haven't been great and a few of them have already been mentioned.

Now I'm a PDC fan, they're streets ahead of the BDO in terms of talent, promotion, presentation etc BUT I love the Lakeside as a venue, a lot of the Ally Pally fans are twats of the highest order and I'd far rather attend the Lakeside given the choice.

Also while I don't follow the BDO 'world championship' nearly as intently as the PDC version, I still enjoy watching it. There's just something charming about it, could be the clueless counting or the under 80 averages etc, who knows, but it's an entertaining watch.

Ps, BDO is not pub darts, they'd hammer most pub players, without question!