Alternative rapid transit systems.

Here is a video I came across the other day, might offer a solution for the smaller towns and cities that can't justify a full tram system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i3aVMKBgFU

The quality of the video is quite poor (all expense spared), but best to try to look beyond that.
edit:
Well let's forget the Chinese copy, here's an active system in use in France.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Th8q9WQUc

Phil.x

I seen this on the news the other day.

My boss 20 years ago said something like this would solve our transport problems and now Belfast have it.

No need for costly rails and construction disruption etc etc.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfastrapidtransit.html

Zipppy

Looks good...is it not similar to BRT?

LeinsterDub

Zipppy wrote: »

Looks good...os it not similar to BRT?

It is BRT. Also the acceleration of the French system looks pretty poor

donvito99

If you were to BRT Dublin as proposed, the Vanhool Exquicity vehicle as procured by Geneva is powered by overhead wires, but has a reported 7km battery endurance. You could (more expensively than regular BRT) install these on the dual carriageway portions of routes (N11, N4, N3) and allow passage thru the CC with minimal emissions/visual pollution.

The overhead propulsion would also greatly improve acceleration/traction on possible routes like the very hilly N4.

Zipppy

AFAIK the NTA are well into planning BRT for Dublin...although I'd imagine it's year away yet..

MGWR

They're just buses. Nothing "alternative" about it. The driver just doesn't work as hard, and the steering is done by robots via infrastructure that isn't necessary when you have a driver that knows how to steer a bus.

loyatemu

MGWR wrote: »

They're just buses. Nothing "alternative" about it. The driver just doesn't work as hard, and the steering is done by robots via infrastructure that isn't necessary when you have a driver that knows how to steer a bus.

I think the difference with the automated systems (certainly the Chinese prototype I saw recently) is that you can have longer vehicles than a normal articulated bus as the rear sections steer themselves and follow the marked path. This makes it more tram-like and better able to handle bends.

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

I think the difference with the automated systems (certainly the Chinese prototype I saw recently) is that you can have longer vehicles than a normal articulated bus as the rear sections steer themselves and follow the marked path. This makes it more tram-like and better able to handle bends.

This is exactly what caught my eye about the system, all the wheels follow the same line in the road, like on rails.

Del.Monte

Deleted User wrote: »

This is exactly what caught my eye about the system, all the wheels follow the same line in the road, like on rails.

And then if you want to go faster you add rails. Reinventing the wheel yet again.

garrettod

Hello,

It's an awful shame that we can't get Shane Ross (our Minister for Transport !) to pay a bit more attention to the stuff discussed in these threads, and a little less attention to things that are nothing to do with him such as what's going on in North Korea or whatever....

Just imagine, a Minister for Transport that was focused on.... well eh, transport !

Putting these BRTs on the roads, particularly along the N1, N4, N7 and N11, with park and ride locations being the only places they pull in until they reach their final destinations, seems like a great idea to me.

Del.Monte

Nope, they are just a cheap idea. Surprising that FG aren't all over it though as they don't believe in spending money on public transport.

Del.Monte

Del.Monte wrote: »

And then if you want to go faster you add rails. Reinventing the wheel yet again.

I don't see why they wouldn't have a decent straight line speed, I wouldn't want an on-street tram to be cornering all that fast either unless the track has the correct camber.
They would be the "pathfinders" of the transport network, if a route proves to be an outstanding success, then yes lay rails, if not change the route for little more than the cost of some road paint.

GhostyMcGhost

Del.Monte wrote: »

Nope, they are just a cheap idea. Surprising that FG aren't all over it though as they don't believe in spending money on public transport.

Yet for some reason spend many many multiples fixing infrastructure capacity issues caused by? You guessed it, their underfunding in the first place

Dravokivich

garrettod wrote: »

Hello,

It's an awful shame that we can't get Shane Ross (our Minister for Transport !) to pay a bit more attention to the stuff discussed in these threads, and a little less attention to things that are nothing to do with him such as what's going on in North Korea or whatever....

Just imagine, a Minister for Transport that was focused on.... well eh, transport !

Putting these BRTs on the roads, particularly along the N1, N4, N7 and N11, with park and ride locations being the only places they pull in until they reach their final destinations, seems like a great idea to me.

Why design a transport solution that will mean a commuter has to go out of the way to use it? It'll need to be accessible to people without cars.

garrettod

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why design a transport solution that will mean a commuter has to go out of the way to use it? It'll need to be accessible to people without cars.

First priority is get some of the cars off the busy national roads and motorways, ease a bit of presure on the volume of vehicles going into Dublin and some of the other cities.

No reason why local communities couldn't be provided with feeder bus services to the part and ride stops, if needed. Bring back the old "imps" for such a purpose perhaps ?

Del.Monte

Transporting people in Ice Cream vans Imps is really going to get motorists to leave their cars at home.

Stephen15

Del.Monte wrote: »

Transporting people in Ice Cream vans Imps is really going to get motorists to leave their cars at home.

I would support the OPs proposal instead could use something like the new Streetlites instead of the old Imps. Anyway they werent wheelchair accesible so they will never be brought back.

garrettod

Del.Monte wrote: »

Transporting people in Ice Cream vans Imps is really going to get motorists to leave their cars at home.

I was referring to local services to bring people to the nearest park and ride facility, where they could like up with the BRT lines I suggested above.

tom1ie

Del.Monte wrote: »

Transporting people in Ice Cream vans Imps is really going to get motorists to leave their cars at home.

Use the existing Dublin bus fleet to feed into the main brt trunk routes.
A ticket can be bought via your smart phone to cover the whole journey.
Make the brt routes fully separated from traffic using a mixture of qbc’s and short tunnel sections into the city center, so that journey times can be guaranteed. Look up Seattle brt.
Build large p+r’s at the start of these rote’s which are easily accessible from the main national routes, eg p+r @ cellbridge with a dedicated off ramp from the n4, qbc all the way to hueston for brt, tunnel from hueston through cc with appropriate stops to allow commuters off. Use dual fuel busses to allow diesel free running underground.
Install tracks in short tunnel sections to allow for possible rail upgrade in the future.
A series of orbital brt’s along the main trunk routes (possibly 3) would allow passengers traveling from,for example cell bridge, get to park west industrial estate using the n4 brt plus orbital brt.
Toll the national routes on the city side of the p+r to force people into the p+r to use the brt service.
At all brt stations at least 3 other modes of transport should be offered, eg hueston brt stop: cycling station, taxi rank, Dublin bus feeder service, walking, Luas red line, national rail.
Anyway I might be just dreaming, but that’s my plan!

garrettod

tom1ie wrote: »

.....Anyway I might be just dreaming, but that’s my plan!

Far too sensible to ever happen

... it would require logic, joined up thinking, co-operation from unions, government and probably private enterprise etc. All the things that we don't do very well here in Ireland, because eh, we'd rather make a bags of things and try for an oul "backhander" somewhere along the way too !



====================================================================================================



I really wish everyone would start contacting our Minister for Transport and asking him to consider some of these ideas ... not all of them would cost a fortune, many would offer far greater efficiency in terms of getting people in and out of cities and that in turn would be cost saving or aid production and by extension, generate wealth for the nation etc.

Also, it would be no harm to let the good Minister know that we are keeping an eye on him and expect him to do things that are relevant to his role, rather than interfering in things that are nothing to do with his brief, when he should be focused on transport !

For Departmental queries please contact

Department of Transport, Tourism & Sport
Leeson Lane
Dublin 2
D02 HC42

Tel: 01 670 7444

Web: www.dttas.ie
Email: Minister@dttas or shane.ross@oireachtas.ie

com1

tom1ie wrote: »

Anyway I might be just dreaming, but that’s my plan!

Have a look at this...


https://www.busconnects.ie/

tom1ie

garrettod wrote: »

Far too sensible to ever happen

... it would require logic, joined up thinking, co-operation from unions, government and probably private enterprise etc. All the things that we don't do very well here in Ireland, because eh, we'd rather make a bags of things and try for an oul "backhander" somewhere along the way too !



====================================================================================================



I really wish everyone would start contacting our Minister for Transport and asking him to consider some of these ideas ... not all of them would cost a fortune, many would offer far greater efficiency in terms of getting people in and out of cities and that in turn would be cost saving or aid production and by extension, generate wealth for the nation etc.

Also, it would be no harm to let the good Minister know that we are keeping an eye on him and expect him to do things that are relevant to his role, rather than interfering in things that are nothing to do with his brief, when he should be focused on transport !

I like this idea. We should draft a letter and get signatures from interested people. This should be sent to the minister, and to the real person in power the head of the transport department in the civil service end of things.

Dravokivich

tom1ie wrote: »

Use the existing Dublin bus fleet to feed into the main brt trunk routes.
A ticket can be bought via your smart phone to cover the whole journey.
Make the brt routes fully separated from traffic using a mixture of qbc’s and short tunnel sections into the city center, so that journey times can be guaranteed. Look up Seattle brt.
Build large p+r’s at the start of these rote’s which are easily accessible from the main national routes, eg p+r @ cellbridge with a dedicated off ramp from the n4, qbc all the way to hueston for brt, tunnel from hueston through cc with appropriate stops to allow commuters off. Use dual fuel busses to allow diesel free running underground.
Install tracks in short tunnel sections to allow for possible rail upgrade in the future.
A series of orbital brt’s along the main trunk routes (possibly 3) would allow passengers traveling from,for example cell bridge, get to park west industrial estate using the n4 brt plus orbital brt.
Toll the national routes on the city side of the p+r to force people into the p+r to use the brt service.
At all brt stations at least 3 other modes of transport should be offered, eg hueston brt stop: cycling station, taxi rank, Dublin bus feeder service, walking, Luas red line, national rail.
Anyway I might be just dreaming, but that’s my plan!

Irish Commuters don't like connections. You just seem to be presenting something that will take people to somewhere, that'll allow them to get another service to their destination. P+R's and City Centre is not it. City Centre is only a focal point on our transport because the majority of our services route through it.

tom1ie

Dravokivich wrote: »

Irish Commuters don't like connections. You just seem to be presenting something that will take people to somewhere, that'll allow them to get another service to their destination. P+R's and City Centre is not it. City Centre is only a focal point on our transport because the majority of our services route through it.

So do you want a private bus for every person going to work in Dublin?
Irish people don’t like connections as they haven’t been introduced to connections!
The most important part of the above plan is the orbital routes that will allow dispersal of commuters around the capital before they come near the city center. Yes it will involve changing brts, but so what, this is what happens in every major city in the world. The only other option is all commuters have their own personal vehicle to get them into work........oh wait that’s what’s causing the gridlock.

tom1ie

com1 wrote: »

Have a look at this...


https://www.busconnects.ie/

Yeah seen that. It’s a rehash of
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-rapid-transit/
I really hope brt gets built, but it has to be proper brt with dedicated, segregated qbc’s and non ticket entry etc etc. look to the South American and Asian (Jakarta) examples. Brilliant systems.

garrettod

tom1ie wrote: »

I like this idea. We should draft a letter and get signatures from interested people. This should be sent to the minister, and to the real person in power the head of the transport department in the civil service end of things.

Personally, I think multiple letters / emails from various individuals have more impact than the likes of a petition (or letter signed by many people), do you think one letter with multiple signatures is a better way to go ?

Stephen15

Dravokivich wrote: »

Irish Commuters don't like connections. You just seem to be presenting something that will take people to somewhere, that'll allow them to get another service to their destination. P+R's and City Centre is not it. City Centre is only a focal point on our transport because the majority of our services route through it.

Any connections that have ever been tried have been crap that's why expecting to wait for over an hour for a bus in the cold after already being on a DART, a train or a Luas. Give them a reliable, high frequency, quick, efficient, clean and comfortable bus service and they will want to use especially if it offers time savings over driving they will want to use it.

We had the old DART feeders which weren't popular because they were infrequent and unreliable using buses that were nosiy, dirty and old. So it was not high quality public transport.

tom1ie

garrettod wrote: »

Personally, I think multiple letters / emails from various individuals have more impact than the likes of a petition (or letter signed by many people), do you think one letter with multiple signatures is a better way to go ?

I’m really not sure which way to petition those in power, but one thing I am sure of is that Shane Ross couldn’t give a monkeys if Dublin ground to a halt tomorrow he won’t do anything that rocks the boat as he’s in such a precarious position politically. It’s the head of transport in the civil service and people that develop the policy that we should be trying to influence, whoever they are. Shane Ross, and any minister for transport (unless they’re in a strong government) are only a smoke screen.

Dravokivich

tom1ie wrote: »

So do you want a private bus for every person going to work in Dublin?
Irish people don’t like connections as they haven’t been introduced to connections!
The most important part of the above plan is the orbital routes that will allow dispersal of commuters around the capital before they come near the city center. Yes it will involve changing brts, but so what, this is what happens in every major city in the world. The only other option is all commuters have their own personal vehicle to get them into work........oh wait that’s what’s causing the gridlock.

That's not what i said.

I live in Clondalkin and work in Leixlip. Public transport requires me to go into the city and out again. Getting to Liffey Valley takes longer.

I accept a need for connections, but they should not be the core basis for a service. If it's going through arteries, it should be accessible at those points. it should not be setup, to require people to commute, to their commute.

tom1ie

Stephen15 wrote: »

Any connections that have ever been tried have been crap that's why expecting to wait for over an hour for a bus in the cold after already being on a DART, a train or a Luas. Give them a reliable, high frequency, quick, efficient, clean and comfortable bus service and they will want to use especially if it offers time savings over driving they will want to use it.

We had the old DART feeders which weren't popular because they were infrequent and unreliable using buses that were nosiy, dirty and old. So it was not high quality public transport.

Yeah exactly. Imagine an articulated or bi articulated brt bus capable of carrying 300 people driving down the segregated qbc on the n4. The passengers have parked their cars in the new efficient p+r at cell bridge/leixlip and they all bought their “tickets” last night via an app. The brt bus makes one of its 4 stops at the first orbital loop somewhere near Palmerston, some passengers get off some continue on towards the cc knowing there are 2 more orbital loops before the last stop on the inner loop.
At each orbital loop they have a brt service that can bring them on to another trunk brt Route that’s closer to their place of work, or they can walk, or cycle, as there are cycling stations, or get the Luas, or get local Dublin bus if that leaves them closer.
All of this can be done through one ticketing app.
This is what we should be aiming for.