Uber

Nermal

Stephen15 wrote: »

All well and good until Uber you're on a bus or Luas stuck in traffic behind a bunch of Ubers and taxis. Allowing Uber to operate in Dublin in particular would cause more traffic congestion in the city centre it's as if the traffic situation in Dublin city centre isn't bad enough and a lot of that congestion is created by taxis add Uber into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

Uber has also been known as an alternative for people to using public transport due to it's price being relatively competitive despite it being a less efficient use of road space.

Nobody says they have to be allowed to use bus lanes.

donvito99

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/08/721139488/uber-and-lyft-caused-major-traffic-uptick-in-san-francisco-study-says?t=1561541398351

Traffic has worsened in San Fran since the introduction of Uber and Lyft services.

We shouldn't be encouraging more 'lazy' ways to get into and around the city centre.

3DataModem

MJohnston wrote: »

What do people think is unfair or unsuitable about current Irish taxi regulation that they want Uber to bypass it?

No consistent quality.
No rating system to weed out poor drivers and reward good ones.
No contact details on-app for all rides.
Anonymous drivers.
No ability to track drivers incoming.
No ability to put another person (or a package) in a cab and be confident it is delivered quickly and safely at the right price.

That enough?

I will hail a street cab without an app as an absolutely last resort, will always use MyTaxi, Uber, or whatever the local equivalent is, for convenience of payment and security of myself / other passengers.

downtheroad

3DataModem wrote: »

No consistent quality.
No rating system to weed out poor drivers and reward good ones.
No contact details on-app for all rides.
Anonymous drivers.
No ability to track drivers incoming.
No ability to put another person (or a package) in a cab and be confident it is delivered quickly and safely at the right price.

That enough?

I will hail a street cab without an app as an absolutely last resort, will always use MyTaxi, Uber, or whatever the local equivalent is, for convenience of payment and security of myself / other passengers.

Not getting verbally abused at Dublin airport taxi rank when you tell the driver your destination.
Being able to pay by credit card at Dublin airport and not having to wait for a taxi that actually accepts card payment.

I have had numerous awful experiences with Dublin taxis and there is very little that can be done about it. I have had 1 bad experience with Uber which I reported through the app and was instantly contacted by Uber who then refunded my payment and sanctioned the driver, who would be removed from their service if he had future complaints. It is a far superior service for customers.

Markcheese

downtheroad wrote: »

Not getting verbally abused at Dublin airport taxi rank when you tell the driver your destination.
Being able to pay by credit card at Dublin airport and not having to wait for a taxi that actually accepts card payment.

I have had numerous awful experiences with Dublin taxis and there is very little that can be done about it. I have had 1 bad experience with Uber which I reported through the app and was instantly contacted by Uber who then refunded my payment and sanctioned the driver, who would be removed from their service if he had future complaints. It is a far superior service for customers.

I assume that uber do the same in Dublin. If you get a better service with uber, then use them...

downtheroad

Stephen15 wrote: »

All well and good until Uber you're on a bus or Luas stuck in traffic behind a bunch of Ubers and taxis. Allowing Uber to operate in Dublin in particular would cause more traffic congestion in the city centre it's as if the traffic situation in Dublin city centre isn't bad enough and a lot of that congestion is created by taxis add Uber into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

Uber has also been known as an alternative for people to using public transport due to it's price being relatively competitive despite it being a less efficient use of road space.

Uber Pool can do the work of 4 taxis so there's an argument to be made for a reduction in traffic also.

n97 mini

donvito99 wrote: »

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/08/721139488/uber-and-lyft-caused-major-traffic-uptick-in-san-francisco-study-says?t=1561541398351

Traffic has worsened in San Fran since the introduction of Uber and Lyft services.

We shouldn't be encouraging more 'lazy' ways to get into and around the city centre.

I agree with this now, even though we don't have UberX. Serious culling of taxis needed in the city centre. Especially those that are just driving around in circles fishing for fares.

AndrewJRenko

downtheroad wrote: »

Not getting verbally abused at Dublin airport taxi rank when you tell the driver your destination.
Being able to pay by credit card at Dublin airport and not having to wait for a taxi that actually accepts card payment.

I have had numerous awful experiences with Dublin taxis and there is very little that can be done about it.

Did you report the verbal abuse through the Taxi Complaints process?
https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-compliments-complaints/

3DataModem wrote: »

No consistent quality.
No rating system to weed out poor drivers and reward good ones.
No contact details on-app for all rides.
Anonymous drivers.
No ability to track drivers incoming.
No ability to put another person (or a package) in a cab and be confident it is delivered quickly and safely at the right price.

That enough?

Many companies provided in app details and tracking and rating. It sounds like you're using the wrong company.

Nermal wrote: »

Nobody says they have to be allowed to use bus lanes.

We really need to get existing taxis out of bus lanes.

makeorbrake wrote: »

The best way to head off the problem of a service that would be wildly popular is to smother it at birth.

Certainly, the best way to ensure that the 3rd most congested city in Europe jumps to top of the list would be to add a load more Uber journeys on top.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Mind you, Uber/lyft have gotten involved in schemes in the U.S. where they've collaborated with transit authorities - resulting in more people using public transport.

I'd love the read the reports on this 'success'. How did they know that the more people using transport were Uber/Lyft customers? What was the overall impact on traffic speeds of the all the extra vehicles?

makeorbrake

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd love the read the reports on this 'success'. How did they know that the more people using transport were Uber/Lyft customers? What was the overall impact on traffic speeds of the all the extra vehicles?

Of course. True for you. I mean that it would be in such demand and wanted by consumers to clog up our streets?. Kill it at birth for sure. That will solve any potential congestion problem.

AndrewJRenko

makeorbrake wrote: »

Of course. True for you. I mean that it would be in such demand and wanted by consumers to clog up our streets?. Kill it at birth for sure. That will solve any potential congestion problem.

The congestion problem is not 'potential'. It is very real - 3rd worst in the world or 3rd worst in Europe - I can't quite remember which.


Consumers (like yourself) have this funny habit of not seeing beyond the end of their nose - not seeing the big picture - knowing the price of everything and the cost of nothing. They see a cheap taxi fare from an unregulated service, but don't see the cost on society of additional congestion.


That's what public policy is about.

makeorbrake

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The congestion problem is not 'potential'. It is very real - 3rd worst in the world or 3rd worst in Europe - I can't quite remember which.


Consumers (like yourself) have this funny habit of not seeing beyond the end of their nose - not seeing the big picture - knowing the price of everything and the cost of nothing. They see a cheap taxi fare from an unregulated service, but don't see the cost on society of additional congestion.


That's what public policy is about.

Right and your point is that with all the dreadful service, no professionalism, etc. that Uber will be an overwhelming success if it was let loose on the streets of Dublin - and that this would cause untold damage in terms of congestion.

I mean, amazing how we know they'd be that much of a success - but more power to you. Kill them stone dead at source. Thou Shalt Not Pass

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

Right and your point is that with all the dreadful service, no professionalism, etc. that Uber will be an overwhelming success if it was let loose on the streets of Dublin - and that this would cause untold damage in terms of congestion.

I mean, amazing how we know they'd be that much of a success - but more power to you. Kill them stone dead at source. Thou Shalt Not Pass

I've been a few rubbish taxis and a few rubbish uber's.

I've been in really nice taxis and really nice uber's.

Uber doesn't hold an exclusivity on good service

If uber can't crack autonomous driving within 2-3 years it will be forced to up its prices thereby negating its biggest benefit

As for its app, meh, plenty of taxi apps out there that work just as well

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been a few rubbish taxis and a few rubbish uber's.

I've been in really nice taxis and really nice uber's.

Uber doesn't hold an exclusivity on good service

Really? And yet there has been plenty of feedback here from uber service users who rate it higher in terms of service.

Deleted User wrote: »

If uber can't crack autonomous driving within 2-3 years it will be forced to up its prices thereby negating its biggest benefit

Well if you think they're going bust soon, then what is anyone here worried about?
As regards autonomous cars, they're already using them (albeit on a limited basis). The fact is that they're ready - as always, its the regulation that trails. But the anti uber set will be the same anti autonomous car set. You lads don't need to worry - the irish regulator will be the very last to let them on the road.

AndrewJRenko

makeorbrake wrote: »

Right and your point is that with all the dreadful service, no professionalism, etc. that Uber will be an overwhelming success if it was let loose on the streets of Dublin - and that this would cause untold damage in terms of congestion.

I mean, amazing how we know they'd be that much of a success - but more power to you. Kill them stone dead at source. Thou Shalt Not Pass

So do you have any solution to the additional congestion?

makeorbrake

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So do you have any solution to the additional congestion?

You have presented the solution. Make sure that the Uber platform doesn't get the opportunity to be an attractive proposition to irish consumers in terms of service, convenience and price - and problem solved. Kill it stone dead at source.

Bravo!

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

You have presented the solution. Make sure that the Uber platform doesn't get the opportunity to be an attractive proposition to irish consumers in terms of service, convenience and price - and problem solved. Kill it stone dead at source.

Bravo!

So no is your answer

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

So no is your answer

I thought we had arrived at the answer? I was championing the existing strategy that is being pursued and at the same time recommended here by others.

i.e. Kill the Uber platform stone dead. Clearly it will be wildly popular in Ireland due to the superior service, the convenience and the better pricing. Such a thing would enable more people to avail of such transportation on economics alone. Therefore, of course you're right - this would lead to more people driving under the Uber platform.


Now, as is tradition here, I'm being pressed for addtional ideas. Let me not disappoint.

- A couple of things. Sheer latent innovation could drive every single last taxi off the roads. That would certainly make space - because there's no doubt that the calculations that are being done assumes that not one taxi is going anywhere.

- No single occupancy of cars during rush hour could be implemented across the board.

- Pooling (like Uber pooling) could be made part of the deal for licensing of ride sharing services (and taxis - if there are any left on the road). That would make for more efficient transportation.

That's just off the top of my head. But - go on ahead and stymie innovation. That's what we do best in Ireland. And I guarantee you, it's what will happen with autonomous cars too when the time comes (we'll change but we will drag our heals and be the last to change, making us far less competitive).

I do hope that answers your question.

usernamegoes

makeorbrake wrote: »

You have presented the solution. Make sure that the Uber platform doesn't get the opportunity to be an attractive proposition to irish consumers in terms of service, convenience and price - and problem solved. Kill it stone dead at source.

Bravo!

How about only allowing WAT in the City Centre, but allowing Uber-style ridesharing too.

Fewer taxis should solve the problem. :-)

AndrewJRenko

makeorbrake wrote: »

I thought we had arrived at the answer? I was championing the existing strategy that is being pursued and at the same time recommended here by others.

i.e. Kill the Uber platform stone dead. Clearly it will be wildly popular in Ireland due to the superior service, the convenience and the better pricing. Such a thing would enable more people to avail of such transportation on economics alone. Therefore, of course you're right - this would lead to more people driving under the Uber platform.


Now, as is tradition here, I'm being pressed for addtional ideas. Let me not disappoint.

- A couple of things. Sheer latent innovation could drive every single last taxi off the roads. That would certainly make space - because there's no doubt that the calculations that are being done assumes that not one taxi is going anywhere.

- No single occupancy of cars during rush hour could be implemented across the board.

- Pooling (like Uber pooling) could be made part of the deal for licensing of ride sharing services (and taxis - if there are any left on the road). That would make for more efficient transportation.

That's just off the top of my head. But - go on ahead and stymie innovation. That's what we do best in Ireland. And I guarantee you, it's what will happen with autonomous cars too when the time comes (we'll change but we will drag our heals and be the last to change, making us far less competitive).

I do hope that answers your question.

Pooling offers some potential, but not perhaps in the way that you think. The International Transport Federation did some research on replacing all car traffic within the city by a network of six seater and twelve seater pooled vehicles doing collecting and dropping you, while you may be sharing with others going your direction. Just imagine how much space could be saved in the city if we removed all the parking for private cars and allowed these pool vehicles to move around instead?

makeorbrake

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Pooling offers some potential, but not perhaps in the way that you think. The International Transport Federation did some research on replacing all car traffic within the city by a network of six seater and twelve seater pooled vehicles doing collecting and dropping you, while you may be sharing with others going your direction. Just imagine how much space could be saved in the city if we removed all the parking for private cars and allowed these pool vehicles to move around instead?

So we're saying there's merit in pooling or it's only in a specific type of pooling?

In any event, there are a number of approaches that can be taken. Here's a madcap idea. How about you introduced penalties for any car driving in to the city with single occupancy whilst at the same time promoting ride sharing services that facilitate dynamic pooling?

Stephen15

makeorbrake wrote: »

So we're saying there's merit in pooling or it's only in a specific type of pooling?

In any event, there are a number of approaches that can be taken. Here's a madcap idea. How about you introduced penalties for any car driving in to the city with single occupancy whilst at the same time promoting ride sharing services that facilitate dynamic pooling?

Imagine there are more advanced solutions to car pooling already out there we have much larger cars that can take carry upwards of 80 people called buses, vehicles that can take even more again and run on rails on the street called trams and vehicles that run on dedicated rails away from all other vehicles called trains.

makeorbrake

Stephen15 wrote: »

Imagine there are more advanced solutions to car pooling already out there we have much larger cars that can take carry upwards of 80 people called buses, vehicles that can take even more again and run on rails on the street called trams and vehicles that run on dedicated rails away from all other vehicles called trains.

Riddle me this...

You're suggesting that these options are 'more advanced solutions'? How are they 'more advanced' when they're not the same thing? They're all forms of transportation, yes - but transportation is a broad category. That doesn't make buses 'more advanced' than ride sharing.

end of the road

makeorbrake wrote: »

Riddle me this...

You're suggesting that these options are 'more advanced solutions'? How are they 'more advanced' when they're not the same thing? They're all forms of transportation, yes - but transportation is a broad category. That doesn't make buses 'more advanced' than ride sharing.

they are space efficient unlike space gobbling cars.

makeorbrake

end of the road wrote: »

they are space efficient unlike space gobbling cars.

Yet they're not the same thing. I've yet to see a society that depends entirely on buses/trams/trains (although some make a decent fist of it). In which case, the suggestion that they're 'more advanced solutions' is neither here nor there.

usernamegoes

Stephen15 wrote: »

Imagine there are more advanced solutions to car pooling already out there we have much larger cars that can take carry upwards of 80 people called buses, vehicles that can take even more again and run on rails on the street called trams and vehicles that run on dedicated rails away from all other vehicles called trains.

Have you been able to get the Luas collect you at your door and drop you off at your destination?

makeorbrake

usernamegoes wrote: »

Have you been able to get the Luas collect you at your door and drop you off at your destination?

This must be the new 'more advanced' Luas . Have not been back in Dublin for a while - I guess things have changed and it does door to door now.

Stephen15

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yet they're not the same thing. I've yet to see a society that depends entirely on buses/trams/trains (although some make a decent fist of it). In which case, the suggestion that they're 'more advanced solutions' is neither here nor there.

They should be the only vehicles in Dublin city centre along with a limited number of taxis. There's not enough space for Uber. Many city centres are public transport and cycling only

usernamegoes

Stephen15 wrote: »

They should be the only vehicles in Dublin city centre along with a limited number of taxis. There's not enough space for Uber. Many city centres are public transport and cycling only

The roads would be barren if you only allowed buses and bikes in the city. How would stuff get delivered to shops?

You're happy to allow some taxis. Why not some uber?

Stephen15

usernamegoes wrote: »

The roads would be barren if you only allowed buses and bikes in the city. How would stuff get delivered to shops?

You're happy to allow some taxis. Why not some uber?

Ok I forgot about delivery trucks/vans but they in my opinion should be limited to off peak times.

Taxis are regulated if you allowed some uber it would end up becoming a free for all with the place full of ubers. I also believe that the number of taxis in the city centre should be less than it is today.

usernamegoes

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ok I forgot about delivery trucks/vans but they in my opinion should be limited to off peak times.

Taxis are regulated if you allowed some uber it would end up becoming a free for all with the place full of ubers. I also believe that the number of taxis in the city centre should be less than it is today.

Who here has said Ubers shouldn't be regulated too? I disagree on limiting the numbers of vehicles being allowed into the CC (perhaps a congestion charge would be better) but if we are doing that, I am not sure why it follows that only taxis should be allowed and not Ubers.