30kwh Nissan leaf , charged from 30% to 50%, charger says it only got 10.2kwh

KellyXX

My uncle brought me for a long drive in his Nissan leaf last week. It's a 162 with 31000 km on it and is supposed to be the 30kwh model.

We stopped at the fast charger and it had exactly 30% on the car readout.
He charged it up to exactly 80%.

Then we noticed that the fast charger said it had out in 10.2 kWh.

50% of 30 is not 10.2
Neither is 50% od 27kwh if that's all it can use.

He is now worried he has been given the 24kwh model by the garage but paid for a 30kwh model.

Is this anything to be worried about and is there any other way he can check if he indeed did possess a 24kwh or a 30kwh model.

He doesn't trust the garage to tell him the truth if he asks them.

Sabre Man

What's the range with a fully charged battery?

KellyXX

Sabre Man wrote: »

What's the range with a fully charged battery?

He said the last few weeks he gets about 120km from 100%
He has got 140km in the summer.
Surely there must be some readout somewhere on the car that says what the battery in the car is in kwhs ?

He read somewhere yesterday that this is common in the UK. People have got a new 24kwh car when they paid for a 30kwh car and never knew it until they noticed at the chargers.
I don't know where he read it, but I thought I'd ask here for him.

Sabre Man

That sound very much like a 24 kWh battery. It's similar to our Leaf.

Soarer

Think someone mentioned before that the weight of the 30kWh version is more than the 24kWh.

Atlantic Dawn

If you put the reg in to Cartell.ie it should say 30KW in the description for free test. I think its also in the logbook.

This one on Donedeal 161T798 gives

EV SV COLD PK 30KW 4DR AU AUTO

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-ev-sv-30kw-cold-pack-free-home-charg/15765943

Soarer

But they could've registered it incorrectly too.

Just see donedeal with the amount of turbo Imprezas registered as 1.6.

KellyXX

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you put the reg in to Cartell.ie it should say 30KW in the description for free test. I think its also in the logbook.

This one on Donedeal 161T798 gives


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-ev-sv-30kw-cold-pack-free-home-charg/15765943

It gives 30kwh but we don't believe it.
Is there nothing on the car itself that says how many kWh left on the battery or something.
The fact that the car and the charger said 30% to 80% and then the charger said 10.2 kWh for 59% is unsettling .

He wants to prove it's a 24kwh and then go to the garage he bought it from with the proof.

And if he did prove it , what would happen?

Imagine if this was in any way common. How many people could be driving around in a car they thought was higher capacity and never know because there is no way to interrogate the car.

ewj1978

1474kg or 1535kg It should have the weight of the car on the plate just inside the door on the pillars. 30kw is 1535kg.

https://financecalculator.nissan.ie/sites/default/files/lib_files/Leaf%20Brochure.pdf

Scroll to page 12. it has the weight comparisons.

KellyXX

ewj1978 wrote: »

1474kg or 1535kg It should have the weight of the car on the plate just inside the door on the pillars. 30kw is 1535kg.

Great. I'll get him to check that today.

mordeith

KellyXX wrote: »

He said the last few weeks he gets about 120km from 100%
He has got 140km in the summer.

Is that on the GOM? Our 131 24kw (one one capacity bar lost) gives very close to that readout at 100%

ewj1978

KellyXX wrote: »

Great. I'll get him to check that today.

Ive added a link to a pdf. it has the comparisons on it.

KellyXX

mordeith wrote: »

Is that on the GOM? Our 131 24kw (one one capacity bar lost) gives very close to that readout at 100%

No that's driven distance. I don't think he has ever even looked at the from it jumps around so much.

KCross

KellyXX wrote: »

It gives 30kwh but we don't believe it.
Is there nothing on the car itself that says how many kWh left on the battery or something.
The fact that the car and the charger said 30% to 80% and then the charger said 10.2 kWh for 59% is unsettling .

He wants to prove it's a 24kwh and then go to the garage he bought it from with the proof.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105361660&postcount=3

Pictures here to show you what to look for
https://speakev.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-a-leaf-is-24kwh-or-30kwh.43153/

We really should have this on a sticky in the forum.

ewj1978 wrote: »

1474kg or 1535kg It should have the weight of the car on the plate just inside the door on the pillars. 30kw is 1535kg.

https://financecalculator.nissan.ie/sites/default/files/lib_files/Leaf%20Brochure.pdf

Scroll to page 12. it has the weight comparisons.

The door plate will give the figures but the figures you've quoted are the wrong ones. Its the GVW figures you need to look for. See above.

Calahonda52

My suggestion is go to Nissan with the VIN as the label on the car could be a Donald

KellyXX

Weight on the door is 1970KG

Still.doesnt explain why 50% is only 10.2 kWh
I think everyone should work out how much charge they are getting for whatever percent and see if it tally's for them.
Either the chargers are lying, which won't be could when it costs you or the car is wrong.

KCross

KellyXX wrote: »

Weight on the door is 1970KG

Still.doesnt explain why 50% is only 10.2 kWh
I think everyone should work out how much charge they are getting for whatever percent and see if it tally's for them.
Either the chargers are lying, which won't be could when it costs you or the car is wrong.

The % of charge on the car display is not linear so that will explain some of it.

Another part of it might be that the charger is lying which has been shown to be the case on here before.

And also allow for rounding which will account for another percent or two.


If you still feel something is up, the best thing to do is connect LeafSpy to the car. That will show you the battery size and show you what energy it has taken in while connected to a charger.

Where are you located? Someone might loan you one of the dongles if you don't have one.

KellyXX

KCross wrote: »

The % of charge on the car display is not linear so that will explain some of it.

Another part of it might be that the charger is lying which has been shown to be the case on here before.

And also allow for rounding which will account for another percent or two.


If you still feel something is up, the best thing to do is connect LeafSpy to the car. That will show you the battery size and show you what energy it has taken in while connected to a charger.

Where are you located? Someone might loan you one of the dongles if you don't have one.

I don't understand how a percentage indicator cannot be linear.

Thanks for all.the advice.

KellyXX

KellyXX wrote: »

I don't understand how a percentage indicator cannot be linear.

Thanks for all.the advice.

If it helps, according on the LeafSpy on the 24 kWh leaf there is approx. half of the charge left at 45% indicated and conversely the first "50 percent" of the battery go much quicker than the second half. It makes sense that the indicator errs to the side of caution, i.e. that you have actually more energy left towards the end of the "tank" than what you think.

KellyXX

samih wrote: »

If it helps, according on the LeafSpy on the 24 kWh leaf there is approx. half of the charge left at 45% indicated and conversely the first "50 percent" of the battery go much quicker than the second half. It makes sense that the indicator errs to the side of caution, i.e. that you have actually more energy left towards the end of the "tank" than what you think.

Would be much better if it was accurate, then you wouldn't have to guess, you could just read it.

mel.b

samih wrote: »

If it helps, according on the LeafSpy on the 24 kWh leaf there is approx. half of the charge left at 45% indicated and conversely the first "50 percent" of the battery go much quicker than the second half. It makes sense that the indicator errs to the side of caution, i.e. that you have actually more energy left towards the end of the "tank" than what you think.

I've heard people say this before, but I've always felt with my 30kwh leaf that the second 50% goes faster.

OP, 1970kg is the weight of the 30kwh leaf. The distances your uncle is getting - at what speeds / driving is that? In the summer, I can get 180km if I stick to 80km on R roads and 140km on the motorway at 110km. Experience is that you can get 160km on the motorway but I've not been prepared to risk it. The other day in heavy rain and cold with the majority done at 100km I did 110km and that used about 85% of the battery ( started at 94%, got to the next charger at 9%).

What is the GOM showing when your uncle charges to 100% overnight. Even with the cold weather it should be showing 180 - 200km unless all of his driving is motorway driving and then it will show less.

KCross

mel.b wrote: »

I've heard people say this before, but I've always felt with my 30kwh leaf that the second 50% goes faster.

Do you let the car fully charge to 100% and fully balance?

If the pack was not balanced the last 20% would drop faster.

mel.b

KCross wrote: »

Do you let the car fully charge to 100% and fully balance?

If the pack was not balanced the last 20% would drop faster.

Yep always charge to 100% when I charge overnight.

I have the timer set for alternate nights - first night it starts just after midnight and no set end time. The alternative night, no set start time and end time set for 7am. So I think this allows for balancing.

KCross

KellyXX wrote: »

I don't understand how a percentage indicator cannot be linear.

Thanks for all.the advice.

KellyXX wrote: »

Would be much better if it was accurate, then you wouldn't have to guess, you could just read it.

I agree, it would be better but I think Nissan have implemented it this way to "help" the driver. We just happen to believe it is the opposite.

Its the same with the speedo.... it reads higher than most cars for the same speed (e.g. 128 indicated is 120 km/h real, 64 indicated is 60 km/h real). This is again to "help" the driver so they keep speed down and thus increasing range.


Get LeafSpy connected to the car while it is charging and see what figures it gives you. That will tell you whether the charger is lying or not.

What charger were ye on?

ArnieSilvia

KCross wrote:

Its the same with the speedo.... it reads higher than most cars for the same speed (e.g. 128 indicated is 120 km/h real, 64 indicated is 60 km/h real). This is again to "help" the driver so they keep speed down and thus increasing range.

And increasing perceived "range" thus "mileage" on the car by 8% so you think that your car is doing sooo great as well as dropping car's value quicker, getting back to dealers quicker, replacing car quicker etc, old trick used a lot in old Audi's

beauf

I've never found car fuel gauges to be all that linear. Or consistent between cars either.

Calahonda52

KCross wrote: »

Its the same with the speedo.... it reads higher than most cars for the same speed (e.g. 128 indicated is 120 km/h real, 64 indicated is 60 km/h real). This is again to "help" the driver so they keep speed down and thus increasing range.

On my 30 battery the error is 10% so 88 on speedo is 80 on leaf spy etc
160 on speedo is 144 on leaf

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

And increasing perceived "range" thus "mileage" on the car by 8% so you think that your car is doing sooo great as well as dropping car's value quicker, getting back to dealers quicker, replacing car quicker etc, old trick used a lot in old Audi's

How are you ingesting?

mel.b

Calahonda52 wrote: »

On my 30 battery the error is 10% so 88 on speedo is 80 on leaf spy etc
160 on speedo is 144 on leaf

Yep, 10% error on my speedo as well.

KCross

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

And increasing perceived "range" thus "mileage" on the car by 8% so you think that your car is doing sooo great as well as dropping car's value quicker, getting back to dealers quicker, replacing car quicker etc, old trick used a lot in old Audi's

In this case though its not perceived. Because the car isn't going as fast as it says it is you will get more range. Nothing perceived about that.

The mileage that is clocked up is accurate. Its only the speedo that is lying. It lies in all cars, just more so in the Leaf.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

On my 30 battery the error is 10% so 88 on speedo is 80 on leaf spy etc
160 on speedo is 144 on leaf

It not 10% across the board unless the 30kWh is different to the 24kWh.

The figures I quoted are accurate for the 24kWh.

Gumbo

KellyXX wrote: »

Would be much better if it was accurate, then you wouldn't have to guess, you could just read it.

In fairness, it can never be 100% accurate. The range icon on my 520d jumps around just as much as the GOM/% icon on my Leaf.

KellyXX

KCross wrote: »

I agree, it would be better but I think Nissan have implemented it this way to "help" the driver. We just happen to believe it is the opposite.

Its the same with the speedo.... it reads higher than most cars for the same speed (e.g. 128 indicated is 120 km/h real, 64 indicated is 60 km/h real). This is again to "help" the driver so they keep speed down and thus increasing range.


Get LeafSpy connected to the car while it is charging and see what figures it gives you. That will tell you whether the charger is lying or not.

What charger were ye on?

The one in ashbourne.
He tried it again last night in finglas (I think he said finglas, I'll find out for sure in case anyone else is repeating the experiment) and said it was exactly the same. He's bringing the car into the garage he bought it today or tomorrow and going to have a word with them.
All the indications discussed here indicate the 30kw, but the chargers and the real mileage indicate 24kw from our limited research, so hes a bit annoyed.

KellyXX

kceire wrote: »

In fairness, it can never be 100% accurate. The range icon on my 520d jumps around just as much as the GOM/% icon on my Leaf.

A percentage readout should be 100% accurate.
Otherwise it's not a percentage readout.

Calahonda52

KellyXX wrote: »

A percentage readout should be 100% accurate.
Otherwise it's not a percentage readout.

yes it is a % readout , it may not be accurate, there is a difference..
While I believe there is an issue here, please don't get fixated on absolute values, all this "accuracy" stuff in a mass market product is all relative: bit like a CIE bus timetable in the '80's which was onely an indication of how late the bus was, if it showed at all.

KellyXX

He just texted me to say he dropped it into the dealer to check it. He said they didn't seem surprised at all or even argue. They just took it to check, no questions asked. Usually he is not paranoid but he really is about this one. I'll you know when he messages me what happened.

KCross

KellyXX wrote: »

All the indications discussed here indicate the 30kw, but the chargers and the real mileage indicate 24kw from our limited research, so hes a bit annoyed.

I think you said he was getting 140km from it. I don't think you'd get that from a 24kWh Leaf unless you were driving it <80km/h all the time.

The plate also confirms its a 30kWh.

Only other explanation is that the battery has a problem and maybe there are some bad cells, in which case the car is in the right place, with the dealer.


We'll all be interested to hear the response.

KellyXX

KCross wrote: »

I think you said he was getting 140km from it. I don't think you'd get that from a 24kWh Leaf unless you were driving it <80km/h all the time.

The plate also confirms its a 30kWh.

Only other explanation is that the battery has a problem and maybe there are some bad cells, in which case the car is in the right place, with the dealer.


We'll all be interested to hear the response.

He's gone back to work but left the car with them. They have decided to do some more checking. Definitely something up with it.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

I think you said he was getting 140km from it. I don't think you'd get that from a 24kWh Leaf unless you were driving it <80km/h all the time.

Very true. I’ve never gotten close to 140km from a charge in my 24kWh Leaf, and I mostly drive it carefully and in a way to maximize economy. I only got it in late October, so I’ve only been driving it in colder weather, which has a big impact. I’d say the best I’ve gotten is somewhere between 120-130, down to 100 during that recent cold snap, and 110-120 on average over the past couple of months. I’d hope to see 140 in the summer time, but that remains to be seen!

KellyXX

waynegalway wrote: »

Very true. I’ve never gotten close to 140km from a charge in my 24kWh Leaf. I only got it in late October, so I’ve only been driving it in colder weather, which has a big impact. I’d say the best I’ve gotten is somewhere between 120-130, down to 100 during that recent cold snap, and 110-120 on average over the past couple of months. I’d hope to see 140 in the summer time, but that remains to be seen!

He did say it was summer time when he got 140km from it. Much less in the winter.
What does everyone else get in their 30kwh cars? And at what speeds. Is it much different from 140km in summer?
I'm thinking seriously about buying a leaf myself, so interested from that side as well as this investigative side.

waynegalway

KellyXX wrote: »

He did say it was summer time when he got 140km from it. Much less in the winter.
What does everyone else get in their 30kwh cars? And at what speeds. Is it much different from 140km in summer?
I'm thinking seriously about buying a leaf myself, so interested from that side as well as this investigative side.

I’d imagine that a 30kwh LEAF should do more than 140km in the summer. But it all depends on how it’s driven, so it’s really hard to give a definitive answer.

In terms of buying one for yourself, it depends on your use case. A 24kWh version will be cheaper to buy, and if you can manage with the range it offers, then spending more will be a waste of money (relatively speaking). What’s your daily commute like, and what’s the furthest you think you’d ever have to go? Do you have access to an ICE car for longer trips?

mel.b

KellyXX wrote: »

He did say it was summer time when he got 140km from it. Much less in the winter.
What does everyone else get in their 30kwh cars? And at what speeds. Is it much different from 140km in summer?
I'm thinking seriously about buying a leaf myself, so interested from that side as well as this investigative side.

I have a 162 30kwh leaf. I can get 180km if I stick to 80km on R roads and 140km on the motorway at 110km in summer. Experience is that you can get 160km on the motorway but I've not been prepared to risk it. The other day in heavy rain and cold with the majority done at 100km I did 110km and that used about 85% of the battery ( started at 94%, got to the next charger at 9%).

ewj1978

in the cold I get 155-160km in my leaf @ 85km/h.

Summer time you 'll get 160km @ 100km/h.

KellyXX

Live update : the garage have contacted him and said there is a problem with the and he is to go in and see them.
He'll be finished work soon enough and I'll get more info.

beauf

You can make these things 100% accurate. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't jump. Because you might be driving at 50 or 100, in which case the rate of change is different.

Gumbo

KellyXX wrote: »

A percentage readout should be 100% accurate.
Otherwise it's not a percentage readout.

It’s accurate at that moment in time it will jump about depending how you drive.
If any car out there had an accurate gauge we’d know about it but not one car in main stream has an accurate trip gauge at present.

goz83

kceire wrote: »

It’s accurate at that moment in time it will jump about depending how you drive.
If any car out there had an accurate gauge we’d know about it but not one car in main stream has an accurate trip gauge at present.

Exactly. Fire a couple of photon torpedoes at the enterprise and the shields drop to zero in no time

KellyXX

goz83 wrote: »

Exactly. Fire a couple of photon torpedoes at the enterprise and the shields drop to zero in no time

Well it like it is a 30kw model car alright.
But there is only 24kw of batteries in it.
The mechanic said it's happened a few of them. Then the dealer came in and tried to make.out it never happened before.

Now to see what gets done about it.

waynegalway

KellyXX wrote: »

Well it like it is a 30kw model car alright.
But there is only 24kw of batteries in it.
The mechanic said it's happened a few of them. Then the dealer came in and tried to make.out it never happened before.

Now to see what gets done about it.

What?? :0

They sold it as a 30kwh car but it has the 24kWh battery pack??

Does that not just make it a 24kWh car?

KellyXX

waynegalway wrote: »

What?? :0

They sold it as a 30kwh car but it has the 24kWh battery pack??

Does that not just make it a 24kWh car?

I don't have all the detail yet but they told him the gom, vin, those tags someone said to check on the door and all the other indicators say it is a 30kw car and was manufactured and sold as 30kw but it only has 24kw battery.

They offered him a replacement 162 with less mileage but he doesn't want it. I reckon he should hold out for a new 30kw myself.

I've a busy few days ahead but I'll post more detail when I get it.

waynegalway

KellyXX wrote: »

I don't have all the detail yet but they told him the gom, vin, those tags someone said to check on the door and all the other indicators say it is a 30kw car and was manufactured and sold as 30kw but it only has 24kw battery

Wow. Fair play to him for checking that out. I hope he is happy with how it all gets sorted.

I’m relatively new to all things EV, but I’ve never heard of this happening before. It sounds like an astonishing error on the part of Nissan.

I wonder if there’s a 24kWh car out there with his 30kwh pack???

KCross

KellyXX wrote: »

I don't have all the detail yet but they told him the gom, vin, those tags someone said to check on the door and all the other indicators say it is a 30kw car and was manufactured and sold as 30kw but it only has 24kw battery.

They offered him a replacement 162 with less mileage but he doesn't want it. I reckon he should hold out for a new 30kw myself.

I've a busy few days ahead but I'll post more detail when I get it.

Did he buy it new as a 162 or was it an ex-demo or was it traded-in by someone else because they weren't happy with its range?


Clearly if its a manufacturing fault they simply have to put a new 30kWh pack in it. Cant see how/why Nissan would offer anything less. Clearly it can't be left as is as its false advertising.

Alkers

KellyXX wrote: »

They offered him a replacement 162 with less mileage but he doesn't want it. I reckon he should hold out for a new 30kw myself.

Is that a 30 kW model? If so I would take it if it's less mileage and similar spec and condiiton. You'll never get a brand new 30kW car out of them!